Questioning Religion

[Famine]

*contradictory waffle*

So, in summary, you believe that using a Ouija board can bring forth spirits in Hell, but not spirits in Heaven because "they don't want to come back"?

Yes or no will suffice.

 

[Duke]

Just because I didn't comment on it, does not mean I blew it off.

'Not commenting on it' is pretty much the definition of 'blowing it off'. You avoided the subject and the strong proof that it invalidated your claim that 10,000 missionaries would help in Africa.

I saw the map he put up. Tremendous progress has been made over there by Christian as well as other relief organizations. I have contributed to several for many years now. I would encourage others to do likewise.

So perhaps now you'd like to address the question of how 10,000 more Christian missionaries can help in a continent that is already mostly Christian...? Maybe?

OK, if you were able to glean something from that conversation that was something other than "complete nonsense", by all means relay it to me. I'm all ears.

danoff never stated that he couldn't prove he existed. Quite the contrary, using 'cogito, ergo sum' ('I think, therefore I am') he stipulated that his own existence was the one thing he could prove to logical certainty. What he claimed was that he could not with logical certainty prove you exist. He also did state that given his sensory input he was willing to accept prima facie (at first sight) that you and the rest of reality did exist.

I hope the smoke has cleared. I see no contradiction in it whatsoever. However it's pretty obvious you do. That being the case, please explain to me why you think so.

It has not cleared one bit. I say it is self-contradictory because you first state that it is non-productive to believe whatever you want, then go on to claim that what you happen to believe is not the same and is somehow the real thing rather than all the other possibilities.

You claim God created the universe and all in it. You have a self-referential book to back that up. I claim that the Keebler Elves baked the universe in their Cosmic Cookie Oven, and I'll send you a copy of my pamphlet to back that up.

Logically there is zero - zip, zilch, nada, nyet - difference between our two statements and the fundamental proof behind them. That's the internal conflict I'm referring to below. You claim it's silly to go to extremes in believing things, then you proceed to go to extremes in believeing things.

Easy Hoss, it can't be as bad as all that.

It would be for me. My best and primary tool for thriving is rational logic. If there was a discontinuity that large in my best skill, it would leave me crippled. Fortunately for me, there isn't.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

Point well taken. But GOD is a righteous judge and he will give him every opportunity to reform. Although once time is up, sentence will be pronounced and Satan will not be able to say GOD was unfair didn't give him a chance.
(Actually he lets him out for a short time after the Millineum).

IMO, Satan never wants to reform, at least that's what I was taught.
He doesn't feel sorry for what he's done on this earth.
I've heard the whole story on why satan lead the rebellion against God.
Lucifer was actually one of God's guardian's of the throne (Besides Michael, if I remember correctly) and an Entertainer of God's. He was (and is) second to God in terms of rank, intelligence, and Supernatural Power. He Performed songs by a orchestral symphony of angels and done all other kinds of performances for God, Just for entertainment. But Satan viewed himself as a kind of a "Slave" for God. All he did was entertain God, and he wanted to do more, but God wouldn't let him, so that's when Lucifer lead the revolt aginst Him (God).

Just for the record, you're talking to an athiest

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Ok, this Ouija-board-bullcrap is starting to tick me off.
Answer this: Why, when blindfolded, and the board turned 180 degrees, do the results come out to be complete nonsense, and the person holding the piece tries to go to where certain letters previously were? (ie "Yes", but it's been turned so it's actually "No")

Do you read the other posts? I've already admitted to the obvious.

Another thing;
Um. . . here's an example:
Please elaborate.

Everyone thought the Sega Dreamcast would flop. The Dreamcast was a wonderful machine, but because everyone thought it would flop, it flopped. Noone bought it because they predicted it would suck (but it didn't). The company never made enough money for produce enough good games and pther stuff, so it flopped, all because people had no "faith" in it.

Now, this "faith" crap is about to be shot down.

A little advice? You will need something bigger than a "pea shooter".

#1. Many people had "faith" in the USA hockey team which was beaten by Canada 5-2.
#2. Even more people had "faith" that the NHL lockout would be solved by now.
#3. People had "faith" Villeneuve. Oops!
That was just to show I'm indifferent towards faith, neither pro nor con. "Faith" is just as useless as claiming you "know" something.

I'm not sure on what here, I'm to elaborate, other than to wonder how you can be so indifferent to something you use, in your every day life. Are you also saying that it is impossible to know anything? Or just for me to know anything? (I think I've been here before)

You don't know jack. You honestly don't. You're either very dumb, stubborne, or brave. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter.

And you do? Thanks for the compliment.

Um, when does that begin? Or was I born 1000 years too late? Or too quick? You baffle me with your "explanations", you really do.

Sorry about that. I realize they are very radical to the intellect, and extremely difficult, if not impossible to comprehend.

When your cat throws up on the rug, it's a hairball, not demons.

Very likely so.

What's scarier is that they still have protests and demonstrations that go on without any challenge. Sometimes the "American Freedom" is just a little too free. deir langeage is atocious too.

While I can certainly agree with most of what your saying, you must keep in mind,
that there is a very fine line between "freedom of speech" and "totalitarianism".

And now to cap off,
Well, I think that's about the most contradictory thing you've said yet. So from now on, maybe I'll just read posts that make sense.

Now its your turn. Please elaborate.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

So, in summary, you believe that using a Ouija board can bring forth spirits in Hell, but not spirits in Heaven because "they don't want to come back"?

No. But you continue to persist that I do. I've already explained this 3 or 4 times. What part of my explanation do you not understand? You may be making the assumption that demonic spirits can coexist with the spirit of GOD, or dark and light if you wish to call it that. They do not and cannot, just as light cannot coexist with darkness.

Yes or no will suffice.

Are you a lawyer too?(as in addition to what other profession you may be)

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

SCJ, Don't even bother trying to explain it to him again. If he still doesn't get it, he probably never will. After all, we humans (Athiests, to be more specific) cannot understand the concept of Supernaturality, right?

 

[PS]

I can. I just don't believe in God. Or take those that claim with so much certainty he exists that they'd give up their own children seriously, because as we've already covered, NOONE can truly know something.

So, in summary, you believe that using a Ouija board can bring forth spirits in Hell, but not spirits in Heaven because "they don't want to come back"?

No. But you continue to persist that I do. I've already explained this 3 or 4 times. What part of my explanation do you not understand? You may be making the assumption that demonic spirits can coexist with the spirit of GOD, or dark and light if you wish to call it that. They do not and cannot, just as light cannot coexist with darkness.

Um...you've not only contradicted yourself again, but that's almost exactly what I got too (what Famine said).

 

[PS]

SCJ, Don't even bother trying to explain it to him again. If he still doesn't get it, he probably never will. After all, we humans (Athiests, to be more specific) cannot understand the concept of Supernaturality, right?

And it's not that he doesn't get it, it's that he fails to see any logic or reason or proof behind it- same with me. Utter nonsense as far as I'm concerned. It's got more loose ends than a frayed cottonball.

 

[Famine]

No. But you continue to persist that I do. I've already explained this 3 or 4 times. What part of my explanation do you not understand? You may be making the assumption that demonic spirits can coexist with the spirit of GOD, or dark and light if you wish to call it that. They do not and cannot, just as light cannot coexist with darkness.

You're contradicting yourself again.

You've said that use of a Ouija board can bring about demonic spirits. You've also said that use of a Ouija board cannot bring about benevolent spirits. Do you agree with these two statements which you have made - in different, more opaque, terms - or not?

Are you a lawyer too?(as in addition to what other profession you may be)

Not at all. But the shorter you keep your answers, the less chance you have of contradicting yourself. A one word answer would, frankly, make your posts more legible.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

'Not commenting on it' is pretty much the definition of 'blowing it off'. You avoided the subject and the strong proof that it invalidated your claim that 10,000 missionaries would help in Africa.

I think thats an unwise assumption to make, but I can understand how one could make it. I'll keep that in mind from here on out.

So perhaps now you'd like to address the question of how 10,000 more Christian missionaries can help in a continent that is already mostly Christian...? Maybe?

I believe the statement that started the discussion answers that question.There are still people who need help over there. Also, contrary to some pithy remarks made about Christian Missions, they don't just fly over, throwing Bibles out of a plane, with a note that says "you figure it out". Their work is comprehensive, including; yes, crop rotation, food supply, sanitation, healthcare, construction of homes, schools, Churches, hospitals, utilities, and just about every other area that improves the quality of life there. Now, I want to finish this comment with a question to all of you out there. What are you doing about it?

danoff never stated that he couldn't prove he existed. Quite the contrary, using 'cogito, ergo sum' ('I think, therefore I am') he stipulated that his own existence was the one thing he could prove to logical certainty. What he claimed was that he could not with logical certainty prove you exist. He also did state that given his sensory input he was willing to accept prima facie (at first sight) that you and the rest of reality did exist.

I 'm glad you were around to interpret for me on this one. If that was his point I couldn't decipher it. That one was really bothering me too. I guess we can consider that cleared up.

It has not cleared one bit. I say it is self-contradictory because you first state that it is non-productive to believe whatever you want, then go on to claim that what you happen to believe is not the same and is somehow the real thing rather than all the other possibilities.

OK.OK. I see, we are back to the dimension thing again.

You claim God created the universe and all in it. You have a self-referential book to back that up. I claim that the Keebler Elves baked the universe in their Cosmic Cookie Oven, and I'll send you a copy of my pamphlet to back that up.Logically there is zero - zip, zilch, nada, nyet - difference between our two statements and the fundamental proof behind them.

Even logically, I think there is a big difference there, but even so the principle problem here is I have experienced something (the rollercoaster or door analogy) which has added to, enhanced, and revolutionized my dimensions, through which my perspective is drawn. I lose site of the fact that most of you have not had this experience, so you have no way to relate to it or comprehend it.

That's the internal conflict I'm referring to below. You claim it's silly to go to extremes in believing things, then you proceed to go to extremes in believeing things.It would be for me. My best and primary tool for thriving is rational logic. If there was a discontinuity that large in my best skill, it would leave me crippled. Fortunately for me, there isn't.

Again, I relate from a different perspective now, or with an additional primary tool.
Even so, I fully realize how my comment, to you, appeared to be a rational meat grinder. Sorry I smoked your logical wig, so to speak.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

SCJ, Don't even bother trying to explain it to him again. If he still doesn't get it, he probably never will. After all, we humans (Athiests, to be more specific) cannot understand the concept of Supernaturality, right?

I think it may depend alot on the individual person.

 

[Famine]

SCJ - This has been explained to you several times, and I suspect that if you do not start paying attention sometime soon, you will be received official admonishment for spamming.

IF YOU THINK OF SOMETHING USEFUL TO ADD ON TO YOUR POST AFTER YOU HAVE MADE IT, CLICK ON THE

BUTTON IN THE BOTTOM-RIGHT OF THAT POST AND ADD IT ON. DO NOT PERSISTANTLY MAKE MULTIPLE CONSECUTIVE POSTS.

Hopefully this is clear to you.

 

[PS]

Do you read the other posts? I've already admitted to the obvious.

...and then went on to conradict yourself, which is why I brought up the point.

A little advice? You will need something bigger than a "pea shooter".

I don't think it even takes a "pea shooter" to shoot down faith. Many people have faith in many things, and then to their dismay 90% of the time they end up getting screwed. Therefore, there is a 90% chance Christ doesn't exist and will never come back to...Earth? to "save" or judge us or w/e.

I'm not sure on what here, I'm to elaborate, other than to wonder how you can be so indifferent to something you use, in your every day life. Are you also saying that it is impossible to know anything? Or just for me to know anything? (I think I've been here before)

And what is that, that I use? Faith? Knowledge?

And you do? Thanks for the compliment.

I don't know jack either. Noone does. That's my point. Noone can be 100% sure of anything, but their own existence.

Sorry about that. I realize they are very radical to the intellect, and extremely difficult, if not impossible to comprehend.

Yup.

Very likely so.

You sure of that? I may retract that statement, depending on how much Ouija your cat has been playing.

While I can certainly agree with most of what your saying, you must keep in mind,
that there is a very fine line between "freedom of speech" and "totalitarianism".

Now its your turn. Please elaborate.

KKK are terrorists, not freedom fighters or free speach activists in any way. If you're saying otherwise then you need a serious checkup. The KKK was Christian too...

 

[SuperCobraJet]

You're contradicting yourself again.
You've said that use of a Ouija board can bring about demonic spirits.?

If any spirit manifests, that is what they will be. Yes.

You've also said that use of a Ouija board cannot bring about benevolent spirits. Do you agree with these two statements which you have made - in different, more opaque, terms - or not?]

If by "benevolent" you mean the "Spirit of GOD". Yes, you won't find it with a Ouija board.

Not at all. But the shorter you keep your answers, the less chance you have of contradicting yourself. A one word answer would, frankly, make your posts more legible.

 

[Anderton Prime]

SuperCobraJet, you keep referring to this "roller coaster" or "door-opening" experience you had that magically opened your eyes and your soul to a relationship with God.

Care to explain it to us in detail, so we can better understand you, or are you just talking out the side of your neck about that as well?

An excuse about why you can't tell us about it like such an experience being highly individual and unrelatable will seal your fate with me, and publicly declare you a simpleton and a zealot once and for all.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

SCJ - This has been explained to you several times, and I suspect that if you do not start paying attention sometime soon, you will be received official admonishment for spamming.

IF YOU THINK OF SOMETHING USEFUL TO ADD ON TO YOUR POST AFTER YOU HAVE MADE IT, CLICK ON THE

BUTTON IN THE BOTTOM-RIGHT OF THAT POST AND ADD IT ON. DO NOT PERSISTANTLY MAKE MULTIPLE CONSECUTIVE POSTS.

Hopefully this is clear to you.

I thought that intent and content was also part of the spam equation. Is that not so? I prefer, if at all possible, to answer one persons comments separate from anothers. I also like to keep editing a post to a minimum, especially if it has been up any length of time. For me, it just seems more clear and concise, which is enough of a problem as it is. However if this is absolutely unacceptable, then I will attempt to incorporate, the more frequent use of your suggestion. Thanks.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

...and then went on to conradict yourself, which is why I brought up the point.
I don't think it even takes a "pea shooter" to shoot down faith. Many people have faith in many things, and then to their dismay 90% of the time they end up getting screwed. Therefore, there is a 90% chance Christ doesn't exist and will never come back to...Earth? to "save" or judge us or w/e.
And what is that, that I use? Faith? Knowledge?
I don't know jack either. Noone does. That's my point. Noone can be 100% sure of anything, but their own existence.
Yup.
You sure of that? I may retract that statement, depending on how much Ouija your cat has been playing.

You just can't beat a positive attitude.

KKK are terrorists, not freedom fighters or free speach activists in any way. If you're saying otherwise then you need a serious checkup. The KKK was Christian too...

I hope it didn't come as too big a surprise to you, that things are not always what they are represented to be. The kkk CLAIMS to be Christian. If you examine the fruit of that orginization, you will find that they are about as close to Christian precepts and doctrine as we are to Pluto.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

KKK are terrorists, not freedom fighters or free speach activists in any way. If you're saying otherwise then you need a serious checkup. The KKK was Christian too...

That's the point I was trying to make when I said that eariler. I was waiting for a real response. So SCJ, what is your opinion of the KKK and there Christian identity?

Do I have to be White to join the Klan? It is after all a Christian organization, right?

EDIT: I just saw your post SCJ.

Now I have this to ask:

Why choose Christianity? Why not Judaism, or Islam, or something?

 

[SuperCobraJet]

SuperCobraJet, you keep referring to this "roller coaster" or "door-opening" experience you had that magically opened your eyes and your soul to a relationship with God.
Care to explain it to us in detail, so we can better understand you, or are you just talking out the side of your neck about that as well?.

I only have one place I can talk from and its located on the lower portion of my face. I can only imagine that yours is in the same place.

An excuse about why you can't tell us about it like such an experience being highly individual and unrelatable will seal your fate with me, and publicly declare you a simpleton and a zealot once and for all.

While it is of a highly personal nature to a great extent, it is not unrelatable, and I certainly don't mind trying to explain it to you. If you don't mind, I do have one request I would like to make of you first. Have you read all the posts I made in reference to this? If you havn't, please read them, so that if theres anything already there that will fill in any gaps or narrow your question before I start.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

http://www.adl.org/backgrounders/american_knights_kkk.asp

^^ What do you think about these people? ^^

 

[SuperCobraJet]

That's the point I was trying to make when I said that eariler. I was waiting for a real response. So SCJ, what is your opinion of the KKK and there Christian identity?

Do I have to be White to join the Klan? It is after all a Christian organization, right?

EDIT: I just saw your post SCJ.

Now I have this to ask:

Why choose Christianity? Why not Judaism, or Islam, or something?

Having grown up in the south, the race and klan thing has been a part of our culture since the Civil War. Since we are also referred to as the Bible Belt and are predominatly Christian, that is the reason the Christian religion was used for a front, or cover for the klan. However at one time it was very large and powerful in many midwestern states too. There is a huge amount of things I could say about this but I don't think it would serve any real useful purpose and this is supposed to be a thread about religion, not the klan. I don't believe the two are synonymous.

http://www.adl.org/backgrounders/american_knights_kkk.asp

^^ What do you think about these people? ^^

Their lost.
(I hope you didn't miss this edit Famine)

Does it bother you that they use your religion as a cover? That's the question I really wanted to ask.

I'm not pleased about it. But I think anyone with a couple brain cells firing can see what there really about. You don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but you sure seem to have a fascination with the klan. Are you Black or if you prefer, Afro American?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Having grown up in the south, the race and klan thing has been a part of our culture since the Civil War. Since we are also referred to as the Bible Belt and are predominatly Christian, that is the reason the Christian religion was used for a front, or cover for the klan. However at one time it was very large and powerful in many midwestern states too. There is a huge amount of things I could say about this but I don't think it would serve any real useful purpose.

Does it bother you that they use your religion as a cover? That's the question I really wanted to ask.

 

[a6m5]

KKK are terrorists, not freedom fighters or free speach activists in any way. If you're saying otherwise then you need a serious checkup. The KKK was Christian too...

Even if KKK claimed to be Christians, the Bible says they aren't.

I can claim to be an NY Yankees fan, but watch me at the Yankees/Mariners game, you can easily tell I really wasn't.

 

[PS]

Now I have this to ask:

Why choose Christianity? Why not Judaism, or Islam, or something?

Because those ones don't condemn Ouija boards. . . .

Even if KKK claimed to be Christians, the Bible says they aren't.

I can claim to be an NY Yankees fan, but watch me at the Yankees/Mariners game, you can easily tell I really wasn't.

The bible claims that the KKK aren't christians? The KKK persecuted blacks, hispanics, catholics, jews, and "lawbreakers". In VERY harsh ways.

I only have one place I can talk from and its located on the lower portion of my face. I can only imagine that yours is in the same place.

Pithy remark #2937515981350.

If you're going to respond to someone, at least think about what you're going to say first, or don't respond at all. If you can't provide a reasonable answer, then you may as well just leave.

While it is of a highly personal nature to a great extent, it is not unrelatable, and I certainly don't mind trying to explain it to you. If you don't mind, I do have one request I would like to make of you first. Have you read all the posts I made in reference to this? If you havn't, please read them, so that if theres anything already there that will fill in any gaps or narrow your question before I start.

Just tell him to PM you. Totally private.

You just can't beat a positive attitude.

Nice response. I'll give you another try before throw a holy hand grenade into this nonsense thread.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

I'm not pleased about it. But I think anyone with a couple brain cells firing can see what there really about.

I agree.

You don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but you sure seem to have a fascination with the klan. Are you Black or if you prefer, Afro American?

You've answered all of my questions, so I see no reason why I shouldn't answer any of yours.

Yes, I am Black.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

this is supposed to be a thread about religion, not the klan. I don't believe the two are synonymous.

I would like to point out, though, that the klan uses religion as a facade. That in itself is enough to make people question their own religion.

I'm not saying we have to go in-depth about the klan, but it wouldn't be considered off-topic if we mention something about the organizations religious background.

 

[a6m5]

The bible claims that the KKK aren't christians? The KKK persecuted blacks, hispanics, catholics, jews, and "lawbreakers". In VERY harsh ways.

I didn't say the bible "claims" that KKKs aren't Christians, but the Bible has guidelines for the followers. KKK, obviously, often does the exact opposite of what the bible says and is expected of christians. That's why I included this example:

I can claim to be an NY Yankees fan, but watch me at the Yankees/Mariners game, you can easily tell I really wasn't.

They can claim or believe anything they please, but it doesn't mean it's true. Anyone who supported what KKK did are either not christians, or mentally retarded and were not able to tell their wrong doing.

 

[PS]

Oooh, sorry I misinterpreted it. I didn't know what you were referring to. I there are many religions that have branched off of Christianity, perhaps they've created their own? One that is only known to the members of the Klan? Maybe that's their version of some sort of twisted christianity...who knows, I say burn the KKK bastards.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I would like to point out, though, that the klan uses religion as a facade. That in itself is enough to make people question their own religion.

I'm not saying we have to go in-depth about the klan, but it wouldn't be considered off-topic if we mention something about the organizations religious background.

Yea, I see what your saying. I made a post earlier in reference to somethings God told me and one was, which Church I should attend. That Church has about a 60/40, black to white membership. I'm still attending it and am a member as well. I want to elaborate on this a little more. To you, that recommendation might seem insignificant, but for me it was a radical departure from my upbringing and traditions. Now by saying that, I was never raised to hate or mistreat anyone and certainly never embraced the klan. Thats not what I mean. But, down here there is a traditional segregative underpinning. Blacks go to their Church, and Whites go to theirs, type thing. Socially, to a degree, it is still so too, although not as much as it used to be. Now, I did not have to take GOD's recommendation if I didn't want to, but if he made it to me it had to be to my benefit. Like I said in an earlier post, I have to admit, in all probability, GOD's is smarter than me. The result is, it has greatly been to my benefit.

 

[Famine]

So...

If you can communicate with evil spirits through a Ouija board - which is inanimate but claimed to provide a corridor to the spirit world - but not spirits in Heaven, because they don't want to come back, regardless of the intent of the User, how come the Holy Spirit can communicate with you?

Latest contortion eagerly awaited.