Racesimcentral.com to make an "E3 Special Report" on GT5. IT'S OUT, watch @ 1st post

[JDMKING13]

They said it was "physics wise, just like FM3", now, i dont remember a perpetual forced ASM and the cars tipping over like cows when they hit rumble strips in GT5P.(no there wasnt rollover in GT5P, but if there was, it wouldnt be like that) + no sense of speed and it looks like a toboggan driving.

To me it just shows how little they might know, also they didnt mention what physics model they were using, or even TCS ASM, important factors to mention when reviewing a Sim.

👍 That physics talked through me off also just as you said, I wish they said what tiers they were using.

 

[phosphor112]

I have been playing Forza 3 since its release and Ive flipped the car twice only. The cars dont flip as easy as you think.

o_O. I've never flipped a car in rFactor once.

I've rolled a car over in Forza 3 at least 8 times... From experience, I'd say it's easy to roll it over.

 

[kingcars]

I got a good laugh out of the epic answer-dodging the guy did in response to the standard/premium questions.

 

[frankwer]

Whats the point of making the cars flippable when everybody laugh about it?

 

[Timppaq]

Whats the point of making the cars flippable when everybody laugh about it?

It's like so many things in life, when you fail at it, many will laugh at you. The point is to make it happen like in the movies

 

[People_Know_Me]

I have a problem that needs answering. I haven't read the whole thread, nor have read any other lengthy thread in entirety, so forgive me if this has been brought up.

It has been stated that no car will receive enough damage to the point that it can no longer move. So, you can smash your car up as much as you want, but it can still somewhat drive. This is due to agreements with car manufacturers. I am ok with this.

It is also confirmed that cars can flip/roll/whatever you want to call it. Awesome!


So, here's the problem. What happens when you flip a car onto it's roof when theoretically a car can never stop driving? Will the physics be manipulated to the point where a car will always roll back onto its wheels, or will the car still be considered moving while on the roof, despite the fact it can no longer move? Also, what happens in an "event" situation then?

Hmmm....

 

[trk29]

Your car will most likely flip back over or you will initiate the roll back.

 

[Conquerer]

So, here's the problem. What happens when you flip a car onto it's roof when theoretically a car can never stop driving? Will the physics be manipulated to the point where a car will always roll back onto its wheels, or will the car still be considered moving while on the roof, despite the fact it can no longer move? Also, what happens in an "event" situation then?

Hmmm....

We don't know yet but it appears they'll have to make some sort of compromise or instead make it so flipping your car ends your race. Other possibilities are the Forza 3 route where you can flip your car back over by moving the analog sick or resetting your car on its wheels. In Tourist Trophy, made by PD, when you crashed your motorcycle and fell off, you were reset on your bike so it's possible they may do that.

Then again a motorcycle game is very different from a car game. They can't let you run back to the bike yourself and they can't make the driver automatically run back because there's no way they'd allow the possibility of him being hit by another bike.

Honestly, I think the best way to do it would be to end your race. However, casual gamers wouldn't like that and maybe some hardcore players too. Especially if it happened in the middle of an endurance race -- that would be quite annoying to end your race after all that time. Maybe the best compromise would be the FM3 method where you can flip your car back over. I certainly hope they don't do the reset method as that is definitely the worst possible option IMO. It would really take away the realism and simulation aspect and make it more arcade. Yes, flipping your car back over isn't realistic but it's the best compromise there is other than ending your race.

However, perhaps just transferring your car to the pits could work as well. Say you crash and flip, then the screen fades black and you're in the pits, ready to rejoin the race. It's a compromise but perhaps it could do.

 

[Denur]

I have a problem that needs answering. I haven't read the whole thread, nor have read any other lengthy thread in entirety, so forgive me if this has been brought up.

It has been stated that no car will receive enough damage to the point that it can no longer move. So, you can smash your car up as much as you want, but it can still somewhat drive. This is due to agreements with car manufacturers. I am ok with this.

It is also confirmed that cars can flip/roll/whatever you want to call it. Awesome!


So, here's the problem. What happens when you flip a car onto it's roof when theoretically a car can never stop driving? Will the physics be manipulated to the point where a car will always roll back onto its wheels, or will the car still be considered moving while on the roof, despite the fact it can no longer move? Also, what happens in an "event" situation then?

Hmmm....

We don't know, yet. They can have come up with a number of solutions.
1. The car always ends-up on its wheels (so no 100% accurate flip over simulation)
2. There is a "return to track" option, that will flip the car onto its wheels again.
3. There is a "return to pits" option, sending your car back to the box.
4. After a few seconds the turned-over car is automatically put back onto its wheels (which will look very silly in my opinion).

 

[Mr Latte]

Id like to point out that in the video Sean/Darin also said they only got to play the game in 2 minute intervals as the track restarted.

That is hardly a good way to get to experience exactly what the game felt like offering at best 2 laps per go...
So why take the comment made regards both games feeling similar so seriously guys?

Why also hang onto every word said from the Sony guy.
He made a few gaffs in some other interviews like saying the 3D was also 1080p when it isnt.
If a car cant be totally wrecked, whats the importance of this as its a GAME and you wont be able to finish the lap or race.
Besides people will likely park or quit even if their car is damaged to a point that its speed wont even allow them to finish a race before the countdown.

 

[Conquerer]

One thing again about the Chris guy is that he dodged the number of premium and standard cars question when we already know it's 200 and 800. Either he just didn't want to talk about that issue at all (so as not to get into cockpit discussion) or he is essentially as useless as he seems.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

He made a few gaffs in some other interviews like saying the 3D was also 1080p when it isnt.

So you are saying the 3D effects won't be output in 1080p which is what the game outputs?

If a car cant be totally wrecked, whats the importance of this as its a GAME and you wont be able to finish the lap or race.
Besides people will likely park or quit even if their car is damaged to a point that its speed wont even allow them to finish a race before the countdown.

So true.

 

[gtone339]

We should put a poll that says:

Which of the following features/hardware that you want to use for GT5?
1. Playstation eye/head tracking
2. 3D Glasses for 3D LED TV.
3. Steering Wheel
4. Controller: Dual Shock 3 etc.
5. LCD TV, racing rig, wheel.
6. Other.

Or is there one already?

 

[frankwer]

Who said you can`t flip fin flipFactor (rFactor)?



Oh hell, i can`t use Youtube embedding.....

 

[steve30x]

o_O. I've never flipped a car in rFactor once.

I've rolled a car over in Forza 3 at least 8 times... From experience, I'd say it's easy to roll it over.

So you flipped the car 8 times in how mnany races and how long have you been playing Forza 3? Good for you not flipping in rFactor. Ive flipped a good few times in rFactor.

Who said you can`t flip fin flipFactor (rFactor)?




Oh hell, i can`t use Youtube embedding.....

That guy I quoted said that trying to make Forza look like a worse game than it actually is.

 

[Mr Latte]

So you are saying the 3D effects won't be output in 1080p which is what the game outputs?

The HDMI agreed standard for 3DTV games is 720p
That doesnt mean all 3DTV games will be 720p thats their maximium resolution supported. Some games will run below this.

The PS3 can of course upscale its output to 1080p but to say the game is 1080p in 3D is not accurate. Sony representatives also said the same thing at CES 2010 in Jan (See You Tube Video CES 2010 Videos) its all just marketing or misinformed representatives.

I created a 3DTV thread that recently that has some good information as "Six Axis Website" had an article that finally covered the mystery of how exactly PS3 3DTV games work, check it out if your interested.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

The HDMI agreed standard for 3DTV games is 720p
That doesnt mean all 3DTV games will be 720p thats their maximium resolution supported. Some games will run below this.

The PS3 can of course upscale its output to 1080p but to say the game is 1080p in 3D is not accurate. Sony representatives also said the same thing at CES 2010 in Jan (See You Tube Video CES 2010 Videos) its all just marketing or misinformed representatives.

I created a 3DTV thread that recently that has some good information as "Six Axis Website" had an article that finally covered the mystery of how exactly PS3 3DTV games work, check it out if your interested.

Do you believe the 1080p output is upscaled from 720p all the time or just when 3D effects are being outputted.

 

[Mr Latte]

Do you believe the 1080p output is upscaled from 720p all the time or just when 3D effects are being outputted.

Read the report I have in the 3DTV thread, it covers 2D and 3D.

GT5P in 1080p mode is not 1920x1080 FULL HD (Misleading but has 1080 vertical lines). It uses 1280x1080 with 2x AA (thats a huge drop in pixels compared to Full HD)

GT5P in 720p mode uses 1280x720 but with 4X AA (2x additional AA)

The differences have been argued in the forums in the past, personally Id say its not major benifit, noticable yes. The differences sometimes seen are as much dependant on the actual screen used in its hardware scaling and picture processing so reports from people will vary in just how good the benifits are. The main thing is 1080p mode does not do much to improve jaggies like in how PC games really benifit and these seem to be more to do with limatations the games lighting/shadow techniques used. It does however in many cases give a sharper image.

SRT are one of few people to come away so impressed with the 3DTV.
Ive already been in discussion with "DG @ SRT" to hopefully have a SRT 3D Special Report. It could look into the PS3 3D games and also options from Nvidia/ATi on PC.

 

[Sele1981]

I think this 3D thing is ready in 2 years. Look at Nintendo, how they made an 3D handheld without 3D glasses?

Thats more interesting for me than sitting in my room with some 3D glasses. I know there is already an 3D TV available where you don´t need 3D glasses but they tested it and they say it does only work if you sit perfectly horizontal to the tv

 

[Shinu]

3DS (and those TV's with no glasses) is no were near the quality and depth of 3D HDTV

 

[Sele1981]

But maybe in 2 years

EDIT: Is Sony, Samsung and all the others using the same technology? Or does the PS3 don´t work in 3D with an Samsung 3D TV?

I´ve seen an 3D Samsung TV in an store, it worked with an 3D Blu-Ray player. And the price was not as expensive as I thought. It costs 1500€. I think in a few months you can get them for under 1000€ and then it´s getting interesting.

 

[MrCooper]

The HDMI agreed standard for 3DTV games is 720p

The PS3 can of course upscale its output to 1080p [...]

Actually, it can't, as HDMI limits the PS3's output to 720p (at 60 Hz) with 3D.

 

[Shinu]

The problem is, that with no glasses it feels like you are watching trough a window.

As I know Players/Consoles detect the type of tv you are using and automatically switch the mode. But I think samsung uses the same shutter glasses as sony.

 

[Lion-Face]

1080 vertical lines = Full HD

Anywho, the PS3 3D output capabilities are.

720p for games
1080p for Blu-Ray Movies (when the firmware for BD3D spec comes through)

I've so far played Super Stardust HD, Motorstorm and Wipeout HD in 3D and have to say the potential is there for 3D gaming to take off from what I've seen so far. I know its early days, Wipeout and Motorstorm, while cool, don't live up to expectations. But Super Stardust HD is really really good. With GT5 and Killzone 3 coming in 3D, I'm definitely eying up a 3D TV next year. Will wait to see if GT5 and Killzone make the grade, and I believe it will be these two games that will make/break 3D gaming and either pull consumers to it, or cement the 'fad' label to it.

I think the combination of 3D + Headtracking for GT5 is whats getting the attention, and the reports I've read about people who have played GT5 with that setup have nothing but good things to say about it.

 

[Sele1981]

It´s very interesting, just found the Samsung LE40C750 and it gets 4,5 stars in amazon. It has full 3D support and supports all 3D technologies. It´s only 40 inch but it costs 1000€ and they say that it´s the best picturequality they ever seen. Sharp and brillant for 2D.

http://www.amazon.de/dp/B003AWNQ7O/

So maybe in 4 months things will change and 3D is getting very interesting.

 

[Mr Latte]

Actually, it can't, as HDMI limits the PS3's output to 720p (at 60 Hz) with 3D.

3D games yes 720p is Max as I stated
2D games of couse can be upscaled, sorry if that line was confusing.

Only 3DTV Blu Ray movies will offer Full HD 1080p in 3D @ 24Hz with the 2nd 3D update.
Ive been reading good comments in different forums with many people saying Motorstorm actually gives great results of depth over Wipeout if comparing driving titles.

Samsung have the widest range of 3DTVs supporting LCD Plasma & LED so they cover all price ranges.
If anything Sonys models are quite expensive compared to the Panasonic VT series.

In general at the moment the 3D cost approx £300+ as a premium over other similar competing models.
Thats not bad but it will be a year yet before a good level of content is available by which time newer and improved 2nd gen 3DTV models will be released.

 

[phosphor112]

So you flipped the car 8 times in how mnany races and how long have you been playing Forza 3? Good for you not flipping in rFactor. Ive flipped a good few times in rFactor.

That guy I quoted said that trying to make Forza look like a worse game than it actually is.

I'm not trying to do anything, I'm just saying in the 30+ hours I've played of that game I've flipped too many times. Other people seem to agree with me. Maybe we just suck? I don't know, but considering I don't have that sort of problem with rFactor (a better simulator) I'd think it wasn't skill related. Also, to let you know, I was using a controller every time I played FM3. There's no need to get mad or assume that I'm trying to make a game sound worse than it is. =S

Back on topic.
Those asking about 2D vs 3D...

The PS3 can output GT5 at:
1280x1080p @ 60fps (2xAA) (if using the same technique as GT5P)
1280x720 @ 60fps (4xAA)
1280x720 @ 60fps Stereoscopic 3D (level of anti-aliasing is unknown, though it's probably turned off in 3D mode)

 

[Seismica]

I have been playing Forza 3 since its release and Ive flipped the car twice only. The cars dont flip as easy as you think.

And in the short time I played it I managed to flip it. it was at the Spanish Montserrat circuit (Is that what it's called?) The same one from the pre-release demo. Gently over a rumble strip and stright onto two wheels, like the car had no weight or downforce at all.

They might not flip very often, but I feel the physics engine exaggerates the forces that cause the car to flip. Maybe PD will implement it better, but then again maybe they won't.

The cars in GT appear to have more weight (But that is because they're stuck to the ground up to now... but the suspension and weight changes all seem to look realistic, but in Forza it's all over the place at times. You can't tell when you're inside the car though). The rollover effects trailer we saw recently shows cars flipping in collisions. The SuperGT crash, where one car hits the back of another and flies into the air, appears to be evidence that cars will lift off the ground should air get underneath them. But we have yet to see if it has been implemented properly. It could be way too glitchy and could happen way too often. It's all good saying Forza has the physics wrong, but nobody can say for sure at this point that GT has these type of physics any better. I don't think the E3 demo had rollover and damage, and that is the latest build we have seen in-game.

EDIT:

We see in many occasions, the Forza rollover is realistic.

Take this one for example:



Obviously, if the car gets onto the grass or gravel, if it digs in slightly it will flip very easily.

I think as for on the road, it's related to how much steering lock you apply. But in some cases, it happens sporadically, with no clear reason or force on the car that would cause it. Like a little magical elf popped up from the rumble strip and pushed your car upwards.

 

[alucard0712]

3DS (and those TV's with no glasses) is no were near the quality and depth of 3D HDTV

Who said?
From what I know - those without-glasses-3DTV's are NOWERE NEAR 3DS image quality.It's very,very good.However Sony 3DTV MAY have better 3D, but it requires glasses...Again.All people that have played 3DS are agree that it's good, very good.
Nintendo are 15 years in 3D from now.Believe you or not.
What I'm trying to say - do not compare 3D-without-glasses-TV that we have now with 3DS.It's on another planet.

 

[phosphor112]

Who said?
From what I know - those without-glasses-3DTV's are NOWERE NEAR 3DS image quality.It's very,very good.However Sony 3DTV MAY have better 3D, but it requires glasses...Again.All people that have played 3DS are agree that it's good, very good.
Nintendo are 15 years in 3D from now.Believe you or not.
What I'm trying to say - do not compare 3D-without-glasses-TV that we have now with 3DS.It's on another planet.

Auto-stereoscopic technology (like in the 3DS) gets better head on image quality, but beyond that, normal stereoscopic technology is better. You can ask anyone who has used the 3DS, the 3D effect WON'T STAY UNLESS you are staring at it within the 5-10 degrees of viewing angle, it's just the downside to the parallax filters that the technology uses.