Racism - Ignored?

[Sam48]

gaah. I dont think people like being called either.

Since when do you think for everyone?

Why do people need out point out or even try to find out which one people like being called. Why cant people just call a guy by there name?!

It's not as if we use racial terms in front of our names. I'm simply telling you what my friends told me.

 

[Azuremen]

gaah. I dont think people like being called either. Why do people need out point out or even try to find out which one people like being called. Why cant people just call a guy by there name?!

Watch how awkward it is when people describe someone, like at a store.

"Oh, do you know who helped you?"

"It was umm... the tall guy, with the hair, and umm... well..."

"Oh the black guy, why didn't you just say so?"

It is a pretty annoying that you can't describe someone at times by what is a very clear and distinct trait.

 

[dautolover]

If people want to get rid of racism, in an odd way, we have to stop pointing things out. If we point out that so-and-so "is the first X minority to accomplish Y" for example, that's still pointing out that race matters. Which it doesn't. Of course, there are landmarks to be recognised but I feel that if we are to really bring in equality we have to stop caring about when a minority or a majority accomplishes or doesn't accomplish something and explicitly mentioning that they're a member of group X, Y or Z.

I'm not sure I've made my point quite clear about this. I find racism hard to discuss because I haven't really experienced 'racism' personally. Certainly, I have experienced forms of bigotry, because I'm ginger and Welsh. But I don't think I've ever felt opressed because I'm white. I have said racist things in the past (not to anybdy personally), I'm not proud of it and I won't deny it and anybody who says they've never been racist at some point in their lives is a liar, but I'm a tolerant person at heart and I don't really care about someone's skin colour. It makes no odds to me.

I feel proud that people historically disadvantaged have been able to make it in the world. The first Latina to ever make in the Supreme Court inspires me as a Latino, the same way blacks are inspired by the fact that a black person has made it to the White House (notwithstanding his policies).

I've had my bad racist moments myself when I was in middle school and in high school... I learned the hard way. It's a learning process.

But we have to admit its pretty stupid when Americans refer to other people as "insert ethnicity" American.

They can be referred to as, you know, just Americans.

Just because they hyphenate their identity doesn't mean that they're not American. They identify both ways.

Mazda Price hits it right in the head.

Watch how awkward it is when people describe someone, like at a store.

"Oh, do you know who helped you?"

"It was umm... the tall guy, with the hair, and umm... well..."

"Oh the black guy, why didn't you just say so?"

It is a pretty annoying that you can't describe someone at times by what is a very clear and distinct trait.

Lol. It shouldn't be annoying. Though if you're at a store shopping for clothes, and you see that the black employee is wearing a name tag (or maybe he or she gave you their name prior to helping you) the question becomes, what do you pay most attention to? Their name or their skin color?

I would say it depends on a lot. I've heard people say something like "Oh, the white dude" when that white person is the only non-minority in a given situation.

PC is some crazy stuff... I don't like it that much since it gets people confused in situations mentioned by Azuremen.

 

[Danisfast]

If you think we've swung too far the other way, then you should have seen the reaction I got in my college class when I used the word "******" without context; because I was white (still am, in fact) the reaction was noticeable, to say the least. The thing is though, if there had been a black guy in the room, I would've felt awkward about saying it...

As it happens, it's a word I use semi-frequently (with friends and family) as a term of affection (and originally about eight or nine years ago to poke fun cultural hypersensitivity, something which apparently still goes on). Words are all about association though, and so if more people used it in such a context, you can eliminate it as a word of hatred when used by non-blacks.

 

[Joel]

Lol. It shouldn't be annoying. Though if you're at a store shopping for clothes, and you see that the black employee is wearing a name tag (or maybe he or she gave you their name prior to helping you) the question becomes, what do you pay most attention to? Their name or their skin color?

I would say it depends on a lot. I've heard people say something like "Oh, the white dude" when that white person is the only non-minority in a given situation.

If I'm shopping in my area, it's a rural hick county, and our demographics are like 95% white, 2% black, and 1% each of asian and aboriginal. If I were shopping somewhere and a black guy helped me pick something out, I'd likely remember him as a black guy. Not because I notice his name, but because I sure as hell won't remember whether his name is Darrel, Steve, Tyrone, or John if I read his name tag. It's not about me noticing his skin colour and making a judgment, it's just that it's easy to remember that he's black and it's easily noticeable. It's the same as saying "that guy with beard", or "the bald guy". I pay more attention to an easily describable and obvious trait than the person's name, whether it's skin colour, a turban, a beard, being bald, or if he's wearing a funny hat. I can't remember the name of every store employee that helps me, it's just easier to remember "the black guy" than his name (for me anyway).

 

[CMvan46]

Watch how awkward it is when people describe someone, like at a store.

"Oh, do you know who helped you?"

"It was umm... the tall guy, with the hair, and umm... well..."

"Oh the black guy, why didn't you just say so?"

It is a pretty annoying that you can't describe someone at times by what is a very clear and distinct trait.

I worked retail sales for a bit at one point and I found it extremely irritating people were offended to refer to the only black guy there as black.

I was one of 4 guys who is of average height, skinny and dark hair. People used to describe me as a tallish guy with dark hair so why can't I as a white guy describe a black guy as black? It's obvious as could be and I don't think of it as rasict in anyway at all.

I'm whiter than white and people rarely remembered my name regardless of race or skin colour and everytime I helped somebody I told them my name from the start. Never when an Asian family bought shoes from me and couldn't remember my name did I take it as a racist act it was simply they didn't remember my name. Why does that change when a white person doesn't remember a black person's name?

 

[dautolover]

I worked retail sales for a bit at one point and I found it extremely irritating people were offended to refer to the only black guy there as black.

I was one of 4 guys who is of average height, skinny and dark hair. People used to describe me as a tallish guy with dark hair so why can't I as a white guy describe a black guy as black? It's obvious as could be and I don't think of it as rasict in anyway at all.

I'm whiter than white and people rarely remembered my name regardless of race or skin colour and everytime I helped somebody I told them my name from the start. Never when an Asian family bought shoes from me and couldn't remember my name did I take it as a racist act it was simply they didn't remember my name. Why does that change when a white person doesn't remember a black person's name?

It's not racist at all. It's all PC. Racism goes beyond attitudes.

You have to see that "whiteness" operates as a norm. That's why people who are white aren't referred as the "white guy"--other characteristics, such as height and hair color are used to describe who they are. The skin color of minorities doesn't fit that skin color norm, so whenever a situation happens where you have to describe the person of color that helped you, you use their race even if other unique characteristics exist (e.g. if the person is the tallest person in the store, or if he the only person with glasses, or maybe the only guy/girl working there).

Color is an important differentiating feature, sure. It's not bad to make note of that. But how much should we pay attention to that difference? The more attention we pay to it, the more differently we treat them. Sometimes, the answer is not clear... and we may get it wrong the first, second, and third time. But when we see people getting offended, it is a virtue to contemplate why that is, and consider making some changes.

 

[Liquid]

Color is an important differentiating feature, sure. It's not bad to make note of that. But how much should we pay attention to that difference? The more attention we pay to it, the more differently we treat them. Sometimes, the answer is not clear... and we may get it wrong the first, second, and third time. But when we see people getting offended, it is a virtue to contemplate why that is, and consider making some changes.

You'll either be amazed or flippant about the dirty looks and name calling I've had to endure being a ginger person. But those people aren't worth my time; sod them.

Again like my previous post, I'm not saying that gingerism is strictly racism, but it is harrassing or mocking somebody because of a physiological feature of theirs. Point is, I am frequently the minority in situations with other white people. I don't help myself by having long, ginger hair but that's my choice. If a stranger is pointing me out in a crowd, and doesn't know me, why shouldn't they say something like, "Oh, the ginger one. Him with the long ginger hair". Because it's true. As long as there is no malice behind those words, in a case of pointing somebody out, I see no problem using a trait that sticks out in a descriptive manner.

Some people are too hypercorrective/hypersensitive about this sort of stuff.

 

[Jubby]

Is racism ignored? Heck no. Everyone thinks of it. 2 ways:
1.
a-Either the people who think they're being targeted or
b-Want to take advantage of it.

2. The tolerant people that doesn't give a dang what race someone is... have to be careful and "correct" towards everyone as the person they're speaking to may be a #1 (a or b).

Hopefully a day will come where we can create an alternate #2 that would include the first portion only (before the ellipses) and everyone is in it.

 

[Zenith]

In my personal experiences...

Racism and sexism are often inflated by people who think they can only be interesting if they've been a victim of one of the "classic" adversities in life. They're often told through unspecific stories that date as far back to middle school and are very contrived.

Of course it still exists. It always will. From the limited experience I have, it seems to be the "chicken" of stories about overcoming or being a victim of adversity. That is, everything tastes like "chicken."

I personally have never had an experience where I've had to deal with or directly observe racism or sexism. If I have, then it obviously wasn't important or shocking enough to be worth remembering. Things like the ginger jokes, women in kitchen jokes, etc. have been making fun of the prejudice itself.

 

[shmogt]

I think people are just trying to avoid it. I saw one of the presidential candidates say black people instead of African America people and the news went crazy about it. They were saying how he knew what he said, how insane it is, and how he's setting black people back, etc. I was sitting at home thinking are you guys serious right now. Like black people can't tell they are physically a different color than white people. Who cares about small things like that.

Most people just ignore racism like it doesn't exist too. We are not all the same and that's just the way it is. If you are Chinese there are physical differences from a Spanish person. So what that doesn't mean the personality or as being humans are different. No need to ignore the fact that someone is a different race, just tell it like it is. Obviously don't be rude about it, but that goes towards anyone.

 

[Slash]

Most people, no matter the ethnicity, make jokes out of racism, in a good way though. They do it to themselves, to others, and almost always ends in a good laugh. Everyone is cool with it around here, there is rarely any hateful remarks against anyone in these parts. This isn't exactly right, but it's a step towards abolishing it. Normally, most people don't really care, and growing up with different ethnicity's, I see no reason to discriminate against someone. I get along with everyone no matter what you look like, and the same goes for most people around here. However, I cannot speak for everyone.

 

[Blaze_409]

So if you guys all suggest calling people "like it is". then in what way is calling a guy example: "black kid" "black guy" a correct description. African americans are brown....Black has so many connotations beyond the jokes people make of it. The color black can be seen as evil, dark, etc......White can be seen as cleansed/clean, purity....See what that does to the notion of white and black. When you call someone who has an acute knowledge of all of these connotations, dont you think they may be offended? When 1. they're skin color is even NOT "black". white or black. Black is not brown.....And i have never heard people being called "the brown kid"....The fact that people can go around coining one another "black white or yellow" is egregious. We are not in kindergarten

 

[Liquid]

We're not white, neither. But I find peach, cream, beige or pink to be very... stilted, somehow.

 

[Blaze_409]

We're not white, neither. But I find peach, cream, beige or pink to be very... stilted, somehow.

thats what i said. I said dont call people black, white or yellow either. look at end of my post

 

[Liquid]

thats what i said. I said dont call people black, white or yellow either. look at end of my post

Fair point, must have missed that.

Well how would you ultimately describe a skin colour, out of curiosity?

 

[Sam48]

So if you guys all suggest calling people "like it is". then in what way is calling a guy example: "black kid" "black guy" a correct description. African americans are brown....Black has so many connotations beyond the jokes people make of it. The color black can be seen as evil, dark, etc......

That's pure opinion. I recently went to a Chinese new year party where everyone had to where black. Why black? Because black is, according to the Chinese, the color of life and the heavens above. So depending on you own ethnicity, black can represent something completely different.

White can be seen as cleansed/clean, purity....See what that does to the notion of white and black. When you call someone who has an acute knowledge of all of these connotations, dont you think they may be offended? When 1. they're skin color is even NOT "black". white or black. Black is not brown.....And i have never heard people being called "the brown kid"....

You have no right not to be offended.

The fact that people can go around coining one another "black white or yellow" is egregious. We are not in kindergarten

Other than the fact that you seem to believe it will "Offend" everyone if we rationalize the issue by simply using colors, what more do you have against it? As far as I'm concerned your opinion speaks for no one but yourself.

 

[Blaze_409]

You can say alot of things about opinions and what not but one things is that a person of very light skin color just won't understand. You can view from the outside how other darker skin colored people respond to things you say but you will never know how they feel on the inside unless you yourself have a darker skin color.

That's pure opinion. I recently went to a Chinese new year party where everyone had to where black. Why black? Because black is, according to the Chinese, the color of life and the heavens above. So depending on you own ethnicity, black can represent something completely different.

The point of that remark was not to say that darker skinned people are seen as bad or that lighter skinned people are seen as good. The point is that it is a false misrepresentation. I am not the embodiment of "color of life and the heavens above" either. That would also be wrong. im not looking for people to think darker skinned people are good pure pof heart etc. im looking for people to not be judged by there skin color. I dont want to be judged "the color of life and the heavens above" because of my skin color in once place and then be judged evil in another place. People should just avoid the judgements.



I also want to mention that I am young(university) so my experiences represent the childish juvenile teen etc....

You guys are probably older so may not be able to relate. I dont mean to offend anyone here. I think that older lighter skinned people are incredibly mature about race.

 

[Liquid]

You're right, and the same applies to those of a darker skin colour. They don't know how lighter skin coloured people feel on the inside.

The points above remain valid; if we're to achieve true equality, there should be no preferential treatment, pandering and so on from any party. It really doesn't matter what someone's race/ethinicity/skin colour/background/whatever is, which is why people shouldn't make such a big deal out of it.

I of course am not suggesting this in a 'sweep the history under the carpet' sort of way. There's not a country/tribe/race or whatever that hasn't been oppressive at some point in history. It's a sad chapter in mankind. But we have, or at least I think we have, this culture of hypercorrection and hypersensitivity which leads to nothing more than not wanting to step on other people's toes. This in itself is offensive because it's almost as though you're suggesting that whoever's toes you don't want to tread on can't look out for themselves and can't deal with things in their own way.

 

[Blaze_409]

The thing for me is throughout my life up until now in college I did not make lighter skinned people feel bad when they made jokes etc(so in a sense I do know how they feel-certainly not sad or remorseful otherwise they would not have made the joke). Obviously the jokes made me feel bad about my skin color on the inside but i did not show it on the outside because where i live 80% of the people are european and rich. At that point i just want to get along with lighter skinned people rather than make them feel uncomfortable being around me because invevitably they will be around me for the rest of my life and I will just have to deal with it...

Obvioulsy it is just a patch an i have basically weathered the storm...as me and my friends get older they dont make jokes like that anymore. But Middle School and first half of high school(OMFG!). Just wish you were not any color at all lol! Why are people soo immature!

 

[Liquid]

Do you mean they were/are uncomfortable and racist around you?

Sorry for misunderstanding.

In any case, with people who think other people are different, either positively or negatively, based on their race; this needs to change. Of course it does. But there are plenty of us out there who are tolerant and relaxed.

For me personally, it's generally not about what people say, it's the way they say it. I'm unsure about how it is in the rest of the world but there's debate in the UK about what is and what isn't acceptable 'banter'. Like, I've been called things like "Welsh b*****d" when having quote/unquote 'arguments' with other people from other countries in regards to sport and for whatever reason this is acceptable because both sides recognise and accept that both sides are not being serious. Is this a good thing to do? Probably not, but that's how it is and most of the time both sides take things in good spirit.

If I am being genuinely insulted, it's typically not what people say that get to me but how and why. To me personally, being called a b*****d is no different to being called a welsh b*****d or even a welsh ginger b*****d. The content is irrelevant. The context and the tone is more important to me. Regardless of what the insult is, it's the fact that it's an insult that should be the pressing issue.

 

[dautolover]

So if you guys all suggest calling people "like it is". then in what way is calling a guy example: "black kid" "black guy" a correct description. African americans are brown....Black has so many connotations beyond the jokes people make of it. The color black can be seen as evil, dark, etc......White can be seen as cleansed/clean, purity....See what that does to the notion of white and black. When you call someone who has an acute knowledge of all of these connotations, dont you think they may be offended? When 1. they're skin color is even NOT "black". white or black. Black is not brown.....And i have never heard people being called "the brown kid"....The fact that people can go around coining one another "black white or yellow" is egregious. We are not in kindergarten

Race is a social construct. So is gender. It doesn't really exist, but it has a social value. Society has told you that color means something (i.e. that black is evil and white is clean). The US, historically, has been drenched with this mentality--so much that the current social environment is polluted by it.

Latinos are (politically) brown by the way. This is even the case for light skinned ones, that are not perceived as White, because they may have accented English, or if Spanish is their first language.

The point of that remark was not to say that darker skinned people are seen as bad or that lighter skinned people are seen as good.

Have you heard of "driving while black"? People of color are mis-proportionately stopped by police.

You guys are probably older so may not be able to relate. I dont mean to offend anyone here. I think that older lighter skinned people are incredibly mature about race.

I think people who live in more integrated neighborhoods are the most mature about it. You can't really be mature when neighborhoods are still segregated by race, despite the end of legalized segregation.

The thing for me is throughout my life up until now in college I did not make lighter skinned people feel bad when they made jokes etc(so in a sense I do know how they feel-certainly not sad or remorseful otherwise they would not have made the joke). Obviously the jokes made me feel bad about my skin color on the inside but i did not show it on the outside because where i live 80% of the people are european and rich. At that point i just want to get along with lighter skinned people rather than make them feel uncomfortable being around me because invevitably they will be around me for the rest of my life and I will just have to deal with it...

Smh... That's because you internalized the racism directed at you. NO ONE has the right to make fun of you because of your color, and if they do, you have the right to stand up for yourself. You want to get along with these people, yet they seem to not want to get along with you.

The most immature people will say "oh you take the joke too seriously." But that's because they don't understand... your feelings are your feelings, not theirs. Only you know what you feel, and to minimize your reactions is to minimize the importance of your voice. :/

 

[Sam48]

The thing for me is throughout my life up until now in college I did not make lighter skinned people feel bad when they made jokes etc(so in a sense I do know how they feel-certainly not sad or remorseful otherwise they would not have made the joke). Obviously the jokes made me feel bad about my skin color on the inside but i did not show it on the outside because where i live 80% of the people are european and rich. At that point i just want to get along with lighter skinned people rather than make them feel uncomfortable being around me because invevitably they will be around me for the rest of my life and I will just have to deal with it...

Obvioulsy it is just a patch an i have basically weathered the storm...as me and my friends get older they dont make jokes like that anymore. But Middle School and first half of high school(OMFG!). Just wish you were not any color at all lol! Why are people soo immature!

Racist jokes, believe it or not, are a good thing. When issues such as racism are used in the context of a joke, it demeans all real faults anyone had with the issue. No one makes a racist joke because they themselves are actually racist. They make them because they realize we're all equal and are now able to freely make jokes about a past issue. Now of course there are real racists out there, but they don't pretend it's funny because they really are racist.

What I find wrong with your position is that you believe you understand how other's feel being called a certain color.

NO ONE has the right to make fun of you because of your color, and if they do, you have the right to stand up for yourself. You want to get along with these people, yet they seem to not want to get along with you.

The most immature people will say "oh you take the joke too seriously." But that's because they don't understand... your feelings are your feelings, not theirs. Only you know what you feel, and to minimize your reactions is to minimize the importance of your voice. :/

As I said before, you have no right not to be offended. If you are offended, you may speak out as long as you do not impose your beliefs on others.

 

[Sam48]

Sorry, delete this

 

[dautolover]

Racist jokes, believe it or not, are a good thing. When issues such as racism are used in the context of a joke, it demeans all real faults anyone had with the issue. No one makes a racist joke because they themselves are actually racist. They make them because they realize we're all equal and are now able to freely make jokes about a past issue. Now of course there are real racists out there, but they don't pretend it's funny because they really are racist.

Problem is, it's not a past issue. It exists. Watch a TV show or movie and watch how minorities have been represented. Are there tendencies to get past that? Yes. But attitudes still remain.

As I said before, you have no right not to be offended. If you are offended, you may speak out as long as you do not impose your beliefs on others.

But others have a right to impose their beliefs on me? "Asians can't drive. Stop whining, we're just kidding." "Mexicans are lazy, but I'm just kidding." Seems some people are more comfortable sharing their views of people of color than others, but are very uncomfortable hearing dissent. I have no consideration for the people that think like this, and I let them have it.

It's about respect. If I slap you, and say "I'm just kidding" that will still get you pissed. My statement that "I'm just kidding" doesn't make the slap any less offensive.

 

[dautolover]

As I said before, you have no right not to be offended.

This double negative kind of threw me off, btw.

 

[Blaze_409]

Smh... That's because you internalized the racism directed at you. NO ONE has the right to make fun of you because of your color, and if they do, you have the right to stand up for yourself. You want to get along with these people, yet they seem to not want to get along with you.

The most immature people will say "oh you take the joke too seriously." But that's because they don't understand... your feelings are your feelings, not theirs. Only you know what you feel, and to minimize your reactions is to minimize the importance of your voice. :/

Why do I have to make decisions like that as a kid? Why do I have to be even put in this position where majority of the people thinks its ok to make a joke and then try to laugh it off if I claim I am offended. I was not a 50 year old man. I was only say 12 or 13 years old....Kids always hide things. What did you expect from me. How many 12 year olds did you know that marched around "standing up for themselves in a predominantly (forgive me :/) Caucasian school. Nowadays no one makes those jokes and I won't tolerate it either. Most kids don't know how to deal with these delicate issues of race. The fact that I have to go out of my way just to be treated with some decency in a middle school is the problem itself. Don't try to change me. Change the people around me

 

[PAPPACLART]

I think (almost) everyone is racist/Prejudice to a degree and these feelings for most come and go like flavour of the month.

I am white, English, I am prejudice and racist at times though not vocally and never malitiously, and believe in many stereotypes though taking into account the potential causes of such stereotypes. Despite this though I always treat people I meet as equals, and do not let any pre conceived stereotypes I may or may not have have cloud my judgement or feeling towards that person. I am equally racist/prejudice to whites also. lol


It’s weird, because my father in Law is Black , My little brother is mixed raced , I was brough up on dumplins, rice and peas, the majority of my friends are either not English and not white. My girlfriend is Italian and I have an adopted family of Sri Lankens who love me like there own! lol

I guess growing up in a very cultrally vibrant and mixed city like London has made me weird. lol

The funny thing is, among my close non white friends, its so funny to hear them complain about other nationalities/races. One of my good friends, (adopted brother) who is Sri Lanken really hates people from india, he always complains about them yet his wife is Indian! lol

 

[granturismohero]

I think racism nowadays is more hidden than anything.

 

[Sam48]

Problem is, it's not a past issue. It exists. Watch a TV show or movie and watch how minorities have been represented. Are there tendencies to get past that? Yes. But attitudes still remain.

Well of course it still exists, a fact I acknowledged, but not nearly as much as it used to (Back when blacks had to sit at the back of the bus and what not).
Can I have an example of how the media represents minorities in what you consider to be a racist way? I may be completely overshooting this, but I never bothered to really take notice since the only thing I ever watch is Top Gear. (And sometimes the news)

But others have a right to impose their beliefs on me?

How so?

"Asians can't drive. Stop whining, we're just kidding." "Mexicans are lazy, but I'm just kidding." Seems some people are more comfortable sharing their views of people of color than others, but are very uncomfortable hearing dissent. I have no consideration for the people that think like this, and I let them have it.

It's about respect. If I slap you, and say "I'm just kidding" that will still get you pissed. My statement that "I'm just kidding" doesn't make the slap any less offensive.

A racist joke generally doesn't end with the phrase "I'm kidding" because it's never taken seriously to begin with. But the fact that they're making a racist joke to begin with shows they're not really being racist. If you've been offended, chances are you've taken the joke to seriously.

This double negative kind of threw me off, btw.

In other words, everyone must have freedom of speech.