Rally in Gran Turismo 7: Should it Stay or Go?

[Raine]

What I hope is the new GT will be designed exclusively with wheel and pedal set ups in mind. Wherein throttle, braking, and turn in has to be carefully calculated and performed like in a real car also with enable clutch for applicable cars, sequential for cars that use that, and paddle shifters for cars using those in real life. For example lmp1 cars should have paddle shifter like in real life, 1995 Mazda RX-7 R2 should have only clutch use and manual usable, 2002 Toyota MR-S should have the Sequential shift only available. the physics engine and tire modeling needs to be more accurately simulated.

My hunch is that the reason physics in GT can be off is because they are designing it with controller users in mind as well.. if they nip that in the bud they can take the physics further. I guess they already do to an extent when you can change steering response settings in the steering menu if you have a wheel.

I would love rally to stay honestly and in GT3 it felt good when using a wheel with the professional steering response or simulation steering response was set. I just hope that they don't use an unfair penalty system as was in GT4 where if the ai rams you(when you're trying to evade) you get penalized.

If the rallying stays they need to give the Group B cars their real world power figures as many of the European Group B rally cars in GT were handicapped in older gt games. I'd also love to see the obscure rally machines like these...

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/nissan-240rs-group-b-rally-homologation/

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a589qkb/

I'd LOVE to see make an appearance in GT7! As well as their road legal homologation versions for normal circuit racing or for pleasure cruises around Nurburgring or Suzuka Circuit etc.

 

[Tornado]

lol they are absolutely not going to alienate 99% of the people who buy GT games.

 

[PlasticBleach]

I consider it to be quite a mixed bag. It hurts the game's ratings and makes it look bad in the eyes of it's reviewers, but really, imo, it's better to keep mediocre features if it's not the main focus just for the variety. It also can be fun if you're playing split screen with a friend and want to shake it up a little.

 

[Raine]

lol they are absolutely not going to alienate 99% of the people who buy GT games.

The solution to that is have a setting in the game that one can select depending on the conditions wherein they'll play the game. Option A for example can have amateur "simcade physics for amateurs" ideal for controller users with lenient tolerance of acceleration, braking, and turning inputs. There can then be a setting called "professional" or pure "simulation" with a descriptor box telling that it's unavailable for controller users and designed for wheel set ups wherein the physics is significantly more realistic. All it would come down to is two setting options on the game settings and calibration screen. The PS5 should possess enough processing power to run a more intricate physics engines and the games disks should easily contain enough space to fit all that data.

It wouldn't alienate anyone.

 

[GTPVenomZombie]

Keep it. Obviously the rally part of GT hasn’t been as great since GT4. (In my opinion) But I still have a lot of fun on the rally tracks in GT Sport. I liked the rally tracks in GT5/6 too, especially the Eiger tracks. Hosted so many lobbies in GT5 with Eiger Norwand K Trail, loved that track.

But I do agree with some of the members here. Stages instead of tracks would be a lot better if PD can pull it off. I liked the Tahiti rally tracks back in GT2, and Smokey Mountain in GT3. They had more of a rally “stage” vibe to them. Even bring back the Pikes Peak stages we got in GT2, I mean, PD has the license for them right? So why not?

Just my opinion. I’m a huge rally fan, it’s my favorite type of Motorsport, would feel pretty sad to not see it return in the next installment.

 

[Tornado]

The solution to that is have a setting in the game that one can select depending on the conditions wherein they'll play the game. Option A for example can have amateur "simcade physics for amateurs" ideal for controller users with lenient tolerance of acceleration, braking, and turning inputs. There can then be a setting called "professional" or pure "simulation" with a descriptor box telling that it's unavailable for controller users and designed for wheel set ups wherein the physics is significantly more realistic.

They've done such a thing several times before in the series. What they're still not going to do is restrict 99% of the people who play the game from using one of them; and they absolutely aren't going to make that non-controller physics mode so super hardcore that people can't play it unless they've spent at least $500 on a wheel setup with an H-pattern.

The PS5 as well as the data heavy disks should have plenty of power and storage to be able to run and store two physics types depending on player situation.

"Data heavy disks," huh. "Store two physics types," huh.

It wouldn't alienate anyone.

unavailable for controller users

It can't be both.



Like it or not, GT games are not and will never be designed for the what I'm sure is thousands of people who spend over half a grand or more on a racing rig and then decide that the only game they'll ever use it with is GT instead of the tens of millions of people who potentially want to play it using the controller that they got when they bought the console.

 

[Raine]

What's your issue? It would just be a setting one chooses in a set up menu to choose between physics ideal for controller users and physics ideal for wheel users. All game content and online events would be accessible by both types of players.. whats the issue?? That's right none. Even GT4 had some steering response physics settings not available for adjustment if you had the DFP. They'd only work with the DFGT or original DF wheel.


What do you somehow have inside information of the computing capabilities of the ps5... I HIGHLY doubt it.

Well you can see it's specs here...

https://www.ps5playstation5.com/specs/

but what that means for the possible depths of a sim physics engine anyone can guess.

 

[02civic]

And replace with proper drag racing.

oh, oh wait.... now THIS is an idea i can get behind

 

[02civic]

I don't think they should get rid of the rally style cars, but the dirt tracks can go.... they are just awful.

On the other hand, there are definitely opportunities for them to make fictional rallycross tracks on the circuits they already have...or do add real world RX tracks to venues like Spain

 

[Rob192005]

While it's not my favourite,I believe it has its place.

 

[Raine]

I’m a huge rally fan, it’s my favorite type of Motorsport, would feel pretty sad to not see it return in the next installment.

I also love rallying, I once did my own stunt at rallying in an ill equipped(significantly ill equipped to the point of being stupid) in my old 1995 Lumina LS hahaha. I was driving on hogsback road in norcal it's a dirt road with lots of winding turns and decided to go faster than I should and kept that boat under control well enough but almost drove off the road twice so I calmed down after that. It was exciting and would love to do it in a car meant for that sort of thing. Soon I'm going to buy a 2002 Toyota MR-S and I'll tune it and test it at Thunderhill raceway. My second car will be a 90's Impreza that I'll take to dirt roads.

 

[mika haka]

Its poorly implemented but may as well leave it.

 

[BrunusCL82]

For me, the rally modality could be withdrawn. But I would accept it if I adopted the rallycross using the real world tracks and the original ones for that, like a Nurburgring and El Capitan.

 

[mwoodski]

Turn it into rallycross with short, mixed surface tracks an joker laps or dump it.

 

[02civic]

Turn it into rallycross with short, mixed surface tracks an joker laps or dump it.

this is how i feel...they do the cars well enough to keep them but the tracks they make for them are awful.

 

[Tornado]

What's your issue? It would just be a setting one chooses in a set up menu to choose between physics ideal for controller users and physics ideal for wheel users. All game content and online events would be accessible by both types of players.. whats the issue??

The issue is that you've now changed your argument twice from what you originally said you think they should do, to the extent that now you're just saying they should do what I already pointed out they have done in the past.

"A setting one chooses in a set up menu to choose between physics ideal for controller users and physics ideal for wheel users" is fine, and something they have already done before (albeit sometimes not calling it as such when it clearly wasn't what they did call it).
That's also completely different from a setting "with a descriptor box telling that it's unavailable for controller users" that you said before, nevermind the game being "designed exclusively with wheel and pedal set ups in mind" to the extent that it even excludes people who bought wheels unless they spent over $500 on one that you said originally.






Controller users aren't some problem with GT games that PD needs to nip in the bud so "they can take the physics further." Controller users are the staggeringly overwhelming majority of the people who buy GT games.

What do you somehow have inside information of the computing capabilities of the ps5... I HIGHLY doubt it.

I think I have more information of what the computing capabilities of the PS5 mean for the physics engine than the person who implied they may have been limited in their ability to do two physics engine because of hard drive space; especially when you've since changed your argument so much that you're comparing it to what they did for a console that didn't have a hard drive at all.

but what that means for the possible depths of a sim physics engine anyone can guess.

Clearly.

 

[Raine]

The issue is that you've now changed your argument twice from what you originally said you think they should do, to the extent that now you're just saying they should do what I already pointed out they have done in the past.

"A setting one chooses in a set up menu to choose between physics ideal for controller users and physics ideal for wheel users" is fine, and something they have already done before (albeit sometimes not calling it as such when it clearly wasn't what they did call it).
That's also completely different from a setting "with a descriptor box telling that it's unavailable for controller users" that you said before, nevermind the game being "designed exclusively with wheel and pedal set ups in mind" to the extent that it even excludes people who bought wheels unless they spent over $500 on one that you said originally.






Controller users aren't some problem with GT games that PD needs to nip in the bud so "they can take the physics further." Controller users are the staggeringly overwhelming majority of the people who buy GT games.


I think I have more information of what the computing capabilities of the PS5 mean for the physics engine than the person who implied they may have been limited in their ability to do two physics engine because of hard drive space; especially when you've since changed your argument so much that you're comparing it to what they did for a console that didn't have a hard drive at all.




Clearly.

I never once modified anything I said. Besides I'm not even arguing. I'm only pointing out things I think would make the game better. You're the one that initiated this by laughing at what I said initially and providing your sarcastic one line reply.

Oh and by the way never did I once mention the ps2 having a hard drive.. good job at putting words in my posts that were not even there. Unless of course your comparing my mentioning of computing or processing power with hard drives for some reason. The way the ps1-5 process data in essence can be considered computing. I can provide links on that in the future if needed.

Are you always this much of a drama king?

EDIT: Apparently you are frequently argumentative and unpleasant after having looked through some of your post history back to march 28th. The simplest thing to do with people like you that spread drama and always attempt to lure people into toxic arguments left and right is to straight up ignore or block them. Since you are without a doubt one of these toxic individuals that in the end have no significance or meaning to me whatsoever I'll do just that.

 

[dacc10]

Keep it, and just improve it. There are too many cool rally cars to get rid of.

And what is this same old discussion about physics? The game doesn't need to have two sets of physics, that would mean a separation of the community, and two times the effort to solve bugs and rebalancing the game. Would it make sense to play an FPS online, and some players used realistic sniper physics (bullet drop, wind, etc) and others just point click? No.
Let GT be what ir always was, that good middleground between a SIM and Arcade.

 

[MaxAttack]

With Colorado Springs, Sardinia and Fisherman's Ranch (we think) all identified from the map overview from yesterday's trailer, I think we can safely speculate that dirt tracks will return in GT7.

 

[Pedinhuh]

Yeah dirt tracks on GT7 was a given, still won't change my mind that they should scrap it.

Or bother to make some actual rally stages, for once.

 

[Big_Homie23]

Rallying should absolutely stay
The physics are jank but it was manageable once you learn how to drive. I loved it back in GT2-4 with the real world rally cars and the massive track selection
The courses we have now suck and there was no proper fun rally modes since gt5.
Either way, rally will most likely make a return in this game in the special events category along with kart racing judging from the globe showing red dots in Colorado and Arizona showing that Colorado springs and fishermans trial will most likely return

 

[Mac117]

I think there's even a song about this precise issue...

 

[Streeto]

If they included some proper rally stages instead of the lame autocross stages posing as "rally" (way too wide tracks, not point-to-point)...

The dirt physics in GT have always been pretty... weird? I remember playing WRC games on the PS2 and it being fantastic in comparison.

If they can't grasp the concept of rallying, don't bother including it IMO, stick to what they know.

 

[Peter.]

I used to really enjoy rallying ever since its inception in GT2. It probably started to become a little less fun around GT4 with the repeat special events, but the prize cars were always worth the effort. It still had its charm all the way through.

But for myself, and many, GT was a gateway to other motorsports growing up, even if it doesn't specialize or do it particularly well. Before GT it was nothing, and after playing GT growing up, if I really liked the rallying aspect and wanted to see more of it, I'd begin watching the real WRC, or go play Colin McRae, and later on, DiRT, which I did. At no point did I enjoy these more realistic iterations of rallying and think 'damn GT's rally experience was rubbish, why did they try?', not while it initially piqued my curiosity, all the while helping to romanticize so many iconic rally cars over the years. I'm older now, but a younger generation will probably get the same experience out of playing GT7.

Plus, if it's already there in the game, why leave it out?

 

[Dave A]

I used to really enjoy rallying ever since its inception in GT2. It probably started to become a little less fun around GT4 with the repeat special events, but the prize cars were always worth the effort. It still had its charm all the way through.

But for myself, and many, GT was a gateway to other motorsports growing up, even if it doesn't specialize or do it particularly well. Before GT it was nothing, and after playing GT growing up, if I really liked the rallying aspect and wanted to see more of it, I'd begin watching the real WRC, or go play Colin McRae, and later on, DiRT, which I did. At no point did I enjoy these more realistic iterations of rallying and think 'damn GT's rally experience was rubbish, why did they try?', not while it initially piqued my curiosity, all the while helping to romanticize so many iconic rally cars over the years. I'm older now, but a younger generation will probably get the same experience out of playing GT7.

Plus, if it's already there in the game, why leave it out?

I agree, GT2 and 3 I enjoyed the rallying a lot, then in GT4 they set the time penalties and made it more of a frustrating rather than enjoyable affair. I think keep it, but don't set different rules for rallying as there is for the rest of the game. If there are no collision penalties for touching a barrier or AI car in the other races, why put them in the rallying where it's a lot harder to pass and a lot easier to clip something.

Maybe they could make the rallying timed events or put you up against a ghost car rather than racing other cars like it was in GT2. But I think if they execute it right it could be really good.

 

[Bejo one]

Keep it.
I love Gr.B cars and I need more of them

 

[Arkseven]

I'm a bit biased, because i'm a rally fan and i have A LOT (seriously, a lot) of good and fun memories playing them with my father and brother.

I mean... look at those pics. You can shout "Gran turismo!" from a mile away

And what about this car? Everyone loves this car!

But, as others have said, they need some love. Imo, rally in GT5 isn't really that good and it's even less fun in GT6.
In GT Sport is pretty boring too. There's something about the tracks that i just can't get it. I don't know how to explain, but it doesn't feel good to me. Maybe they could be bigger? Or faster?

Group B delivered a lot of good races in Nations Cup, but that's because the drivers there are top class!
If we need to keep it, we need the same rally cars variety from previous games.

 

[Toysuprahot]

Rally in Gran turismo was actually fun in the ps2 days. It wasn't very realistic but it was "fun" with nice track layouts with many of them and coupled with the sound of GT3/4 with the overly exagerated turbo whining, it was actually a very fun experience. It's the good tracks and cars that are missing in GTS like Tahiti Maze or Chamonix although they should just make real world rally tracks point to point like the modern rally games if they ever want to bring rally to GT7. Rally in GTS is actually useless.

 

[SZRT Ice]

The physics is not the biggest problem in my opinion. The rally implementation as a whole is. There’s no rally stages to begin with, and the roads on the dirt tracks/circuits, or what to call them, are far too wide. It’s all very weird, and it’s always been like that.

Same as the NASCAR implementation in GT5/6, which was complete garbage and didn’t resemble NASCAR at all.

Keep plus evolve with the aforementioned features that are missing/lacking to make it an integral part of the game & not an afterthought.

I'd personally play it more if they did more with it.

 

[evldave333]

What I hope is the new GT will be designed exclusively with wheel and pedal set ups in mind.

My hunch is that the reason physics in GT can be off is because they are designing it with controller users in mind as well.. if they nip that in the bud they can take the physics further. I guess they already do to an extent when you can change steering response settings in the steering menu if you have a wheel.

Pad and wheel are completely independent of one another as is the physics model, what you need is more calibration options for your wheel set up. As wheel use makes up a tiny minority of GT users nipping pad control in the bud as you put it would mean the game would sell in the thousands not the millions & then disappear as franchise lol. I think the issue with wheels is that there are so many types on the market that a one size fits all default setting will vary across the brands, the solution is either calibration options for every nuance or an official sony/polyphony wheel specifically for the game (this option wont happen but would level the playing field between online wheel users)