- 1,945
- Treviglio
- PAPPACLART
- PAPPALCART
Rapid Tire Wear after update
- Thread starter speedracergirl
- 363 comments
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- 9,765
- OrlandoFL GMT-5
- GTP__Jav
Click on the GTPFIA link on my sig, get a car up to spec and try driving it for 1hr on race hards with heavy damage on arround Monaco and staying competitive all the way trough the race.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I think to get this discussion back on track, we need lap times in addition to distance for each tire.
Prior to the update, a driver with RH tires could not keep pace with a driver on RS tires. We all know this because everyone would run RS tires. We need to know how much faster that driver with RS tires can run. Hypothetically, a driver who runs 10 seconds faster per lap but has to pit every 4 laps will probably end up at the finish line of a long race at roughly the same time as a driver who runs 10 seconds slower per lap but only pits every 8 laps. The driver on softer tires can make back the extra pit stop time by running faster. In the end, it evens out.
As to the people upset about tire wear for their short 5 lap sprints online. You have the option to turn tire wear off. Quit your whining and grow up. You have more than enough options at your disposal. If you can't handle certain cars on RH tires then invest in a decent racing rig instead of your DS3 controller...or pull out some of the slower cars in the game and have some fun with those.
Prior to the update, a driver with RH tires could not keep pace with a driver on RS tires. We all know this because everyone would run RS tires. We need to know how much faster that driver with RS tires can run. Hypothetically, a driver who runs 10 seconds faster per lap but has to pit every 4 laps will probably end up at the finish line of a long race at roughly the same time as a driver who runs 10 seconds slower per lap but only pits every 8 laps. The driver on softer tires can make back the extra pit stop time by running faster. In the end, it evens out.
As to the people upset about tire wear for their short 5 lap sprints online. You have the option to turn tire wear off. Quit your whining and grow up. You have more than enough options at your disposal. If you can't handle certain cars on RH tires then invest in a decent racing rig instead of your DS3 controller...or pull out some of the slower cars in the game and have some fun with those.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
Racers don't usually put the hammer down on their track-out lap in real life. They run slow for the first lap to get heat in the tires and gear up for their fast qualifying lap. If you tried that, your tires should last 2 laps just fine.
- 225
- United States
- GadgetGeek208
Hey folks... All of you that think this new tire wear is realistic... Outside of F1 where the Perrelli tires used this past season were designed to have really rapid wear, racing tires in most instances DO NOT wear out as fast as the new tire model on GT5's update 2.02.
Outside of F1, the only other instance that I can think of that I've seen race tires have a dramatic fall off in performance over the course of just 10 - 15 miles, are NASCAR races at Darlington Raceway. Before the track was repaved in 2006, the racing surface was so incredibly abrasive that lap times on tires used just 10-12 laps were about 1.5 - 2 seconds slower then fresh tires.
PD should have 2 modes for the tires. One that gives you the accelerated wear and one that gives you the real life wear of a race tire. These two modes would be controlled by the room host in online races. Offline races in A and B spec would have the tire mode predetermined given the nature of the race. A Sunday Cup race for instance, would have the accelerated tire wear and grip simulated. Endurance races would have real life tire wear and grip simulated.
The rapid wear is good for all those 1 lap Nurburgring races or 3 lap Spa races that we all do. It makes you take care of your tires a little more and makes it a little more interesting BUT race soft tires are going to be at about 50% (like driving on a wet road) after 12-15 miles.
What a coincidence! One lap at the Ring is 12-15 miles depending on configuration. 3-4 laps at Spa is about the same distance.
I love this game and I love how PD keep improving it for us but they missed the mark with the tires on 2.02. If we keep threads like this going, they'll fix it.
Outside of F1, the only other instance that I can think of that I've seen race tires have a dramatic fall off in performance over the course of just 10 - 15 miles, are NASCAR races at Darlington Raceway. Before the track was repaved in 2006, the racing surface was so incredibly abrasive that lap times on tires used just 10-12 laps were about 1.5 - 2 seconds slower then fresh tires.
PD should have 2 modes for the tires. One that gives you the accelerated wear and one that gives you the real life wear of a race tire. These two modes would be controlled by the room host in online races. Offline races in A and B spec would have the tire mode predetermined given the nature of the race. A Sunday Cup race for instance, would have the accelerated tire wear and grip simulated. Endurance races would have real life tire wear and grip simulated.
The rapid wear is good for all those 1 lap Nurburgring races or 3 lap Spa races that we all do. It makes you take care of your tires a little more and makes it a little more interesting BUT race soft tires are going to be at about 50% (like driving on a wet road) after 12-15 miles.
What a coincidence! One lap at the Ring is 12-15 miles depending on configuration. 3-4 laps at Spa is about the same distance.
I love this game and I love how PD keep improving it for us but they missed the mark with the tires on 2.02. If we keep threads like this going, they'll fix it.
- 1,945
- Treviglio
- PAPPACLART
- PAPPALCART
I did exactly that. I was smooth on my outlap and gunned it on my first lap and burnt 10% of my Tyres.
If using a powerful car on softs will have to pit every 4 laps. Not realistic andb will seperate the field for a lonely race.
Many of you will be backtracking after yo properly test these through in something 500 bhp plus. Wheel users will get morebout of them but pad users are more or less screwed.
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- 549
- Florida
- GTP_Daverytimes
- Don't Need One
- 225
- United States
- GadgetGeek208
Daverytimes
Oh yes they do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This years 24 hour of Le Mans, LMP drivers of the Audi #2 (the only Audi left after the McNish and Rockenfeller crashes) car battled with all 3 Peugeot LMP's for the entire 24 hours. Not sure of the exact margin of victory but the Audi won by less then a minute. The Audi trailed Peugeot for a good portion of the race. The drivers of both the Audi and the Peugeots HAD to drive qualifying style laps for 24 hours.
Along the topic of the thread, there were triple stints on tires for a lot of cars in that race. We can't do that in GT5.
- 212
- biben
I don't know, I have no experience to drive race car with racing slick tyre on any race track, so I don't know what's the meaning about real & fake...and I sure I can't turn the first corner in real life if I drive the same speed in GT5, but I still enjoy to learning tyre management in GT5 even it's not real. 
- 1,255
- GTP_paltik
Grimmeh
exactly. Softs are for qualifying, unless the track is semi wet and/or your car is light/without power, and the tires would still not last long. There is a video out there where the drift king was test driving a well setup GTR, and the tires lasted a few laps, and he was not drifting. Tire wear is just right.
- 230
- Auckland
- yashiru666
I notice the tyre wear last night as well by jumping into one of the fully modded supra with racing soft. Was doing time attack full on testing run on tsukuba circuit, after 2 laps, the tyre wear was about 50% already.
However by looking at the video from Best Motoring, when you run the car really hard for couple of laps, the tyre wear would be similar to what PD have done now.
However by looking at the video from Best Motoring, when you run the car really hard for couple of laps, the tyre wear would be similar to what PD have done now.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
Even on the softest compounds, F1 cars get over 10 laps on a set of tires with their times dropping no more than 1 second. It sounds to me like PD's calculations are extremely exaggerated, but that may produce some interesting strategy in online enduros. I'll pull out a favorite car on an easy track and record some numbers tonight.
YOUR NAME HERE
(Banned)
- 186
- S.D.,california
- TYPE-R-TURBO-97
Ya, its thanks to the new anti lock brake system.
- 533
- New Jersey
- AMS_Windfire
- 9,765
- OrlandoFL GMT-5
- GTP__Jav
That's a high HP street car on tires similar to DOT R Compound tires. Slik tires do last way longer than a handfull of laps. In the last days(1995-2003) of Trans Am those cars would go for an entire race lenght without pitting for new tires or fuel. This were 1-2hr races on a dynosaur of a car! Overweight and huge amounts of power!
The GT1/GT2/GT3/GT4 cars of today can easily double and triple stint a set of tires, no we are talking about 3hrs of racing on a set of tires. Now i'm not asking for that in GT5, all I'm saying is that the old tire wear model for the RS tires was decent, all they needed to do was increase the life of the RH and RM tires, not make the RS wear faster! That was just plain dumb by PD!
- 1,019
- johnkiller2
Most people are not after the realistic thing.
I think many online racing leagues runs one hour races. Pit stops are fun. It adds strategy. You can pit early to get track position. Of course there is a price to pay as you need to go longer on later stops. Etc, etc.
What many racing leagues would have liked is not to make tires choice a no brainer. Before 2.02, going for the grippiest tire the regulations have allowed. Unfortunately to my early findings, this is still the case. Even if you now need to pit much more often with the grippier tire, the time you gain on the track is bigger than the time you lose by incremental pit stops.
In my view, the grip difference between the different tires is too big. For GT500, RS is about 2-3 sec/minunte faster than RH.
Example. I think a 10 lapper at Suzuka will require one stop on RS. You will easily gain the 30-35 sec a pit stop takes over the 10 laps compared to RH doing no stop. Same apply for 20, 30, 40, etc laps.
Too bad.
I think many online racing leagues runs one hour races. Pit stops are fun. It adds strategy. You can pit early to get track position. Of course there is a price to pay as you need to go longer on later stops. Etc, etc.
What many racing leagues would have liked is not to make tires choice a no brainer. Before 2.02, going for the grippiest tire the regulations have allowed. Unfortunately to my early findings, this is still the case. Even if you now need to pit much more often with the grippier tire, the time you gain on the track is bigger than the time you lose by incremental pit stops.
In my view, the grip difference between the different tires is too big. For GT500, RS is about 2-3 sec/minunte faster than RH.
Example. I think a 10 lapper at Suzuka will require one stop on RS. You will easily gain the 30-35 sec a pit stop takes over the 10 laps compared to RH doing no stop. Same apply for 20, 30, 40, etc laps.
Too bad.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
This is what I'd like to verify. If there is some strategy to find here based on track position, it could be real fun. For example, running RM for 7 laps and RS for 3 laps...or something along those lines.
To really figure things out, we got to run it though. The rate at which tires deteriorate is just as important as the number of safe laps you put on the tires.
I am free tonight so I think I'll try some Tsukuba laps where tires should wear down very fast.
research
Premium
- 847
- Ohio
- ecko_driver81
Bravo sir. THAT's how you make a constructive post. Many a man could learn from you around here. Excellent work.
👍
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Not getting into the argument of good/bad just now, but want to add some information from my testing in the 24h le mans enduro.
A while back I ran this race and did some scouting on the AI to find a competitive car/strategy. I found that the C60 hybride ran 9 laps, pretty much all other cars ran 10, and I think the Bentley ran 11 laps per pit stop. All cars had at least a sliver of tyre left when entering pit lane.
I re-did this test just now and the C60H did 5, rest all did 6 laps per pit stop. About half of the cars had completely bald rears at the end. Since this is all AI driving you can take driver input completely out of the equation so Race Mediums last between 50 and 60% of what they did before.
A while back I ran this race and did some scouting on the AI to find a competitive car/strategy. I found that the C60 hybride ran 9 laps, pretty much all other cars ran 10, and I think the Bentley ran 11 laps per pit stop. All cars had at least a sliver of tyre left when entering pit lane.
I re-did this test just now and the C60H did 5, rest all did 6 laps per pit stop. About half of the cars had completely bald rears at the end. Since this is all AI driving you can take driver input completely out of the equation so Race Mediums last between 50 and 60% of what they did before.
I was really hoping for more realistic tire wear especially concerning the racing soft tires but as always PD went overboard on this update.
In the 24hr Nurb B-Spec race, the softs last 1 lap, medium 2 laps and hard 3 laps. Half the AI cars pitted after the 2nd lap while the other half attempted to run a 3rd lap on rims. I'm running the race in a Bentley Speed 8 which is kind on tires and arguably the fastest on the field. I had to pit on the 2nd lap taking on only 38 liters of fuel. This is just unrealistic imho.
In my racing experience, tires simply don't wear out that fast. Granted that the green hell is a long track but 2 laps on medium tires .... ummm, no way. On qualifying tires, IRL, I usually do a warm up lap and then 2 or 3 blazing laps. Ok, what I'm trying to say is that perhaps:
Soft Racing: 2 laps
Medium Racing: 3 or 4 laps
Hard Racing: 4 or 5 laps
In the 24hr Nurb B-Spec race, the softs last 1 lap, medium 2 laps and hard 3 laps. Half the AI cars pitted after the 2nd lap while the other half attempted to run a 3rd lap on rims. I'm running the race in a Bentley Speed 8 which is kind on tires and arguably the fastest on the field. I had to pit on the 2nd lap taking on only 38 liters of fuel. This is just unrealistic imho.
In my racing experience, tires simply don't wear out that fast. Granted that the green hell is a long track but 2 laps on medium tires .... ummm, no way. On qualifying tires, IRL, I usually do a warm up lap and then 2 or 3 blazing laps. Ok, what I'm trying to say is that perhaps:
Soft Racing: 2 laps
Medium Racing: 3 or 4 laps
Hard Racing: 4 or 5 laps
- 9,765
- OrlandoFL GMT-5
- GTP__Jav
That would be the best thing to do, just use this tire model and give us the ability to accelerate/retard tire wear, leave the current ratio as 25% and let us adjust in 25% increments. Now PD being PD this will take 2 months to develop and we won't see it implemented till summer 2012!
- 1,036
- Vegas
- Trajikone
Found this lap by lap of the 2011 24hr nurb race
http://adac.24h-rennen.de/uploads/media/24h_Rennen_LapByLap_04.pdf
Looks like pits are 6-10 laps
Kaz and team did every 7 laps
71 Schulze Tobias / Schulze Michael
http://adac.24h-rennen.de/uploads/media/24h_Rennen_LapByLap_04.pdf
Looks like pits are 6-10 laps
Kaz and team did every 7 laps
71 Schulze Tobias / Schulze Michael
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- 846
- London Town
- SiiverArrow
I really wouldn't mind if they just made the hard tires last longer than normal, but making the softs degrade this much is ridiculous, I was in an online race on the Nurburgring and the tires were completely gone after half a lap(this was on race mediums which is even worse), how does this add to strategy? You're guaranteed to cause a crash with another driver. In short 3 lap races aswell, there doesn't need to be any strategy decisions because there shouldn't be any pit stops.
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