Rapid Tire Wear after update

[Padracer99]

Read my post again, I am nowhere in my post asking for realistic tire wear. All I'm saying is that the Soft compound tires should've been left alone and the harder compounds made last longer.
Now, not even the grippiest tires on earth desintegrate in 3 laps! That's just plain silly! Yes I agree the race tire model in GT5 is not the best arround far from it, but it is what we have. Obviously the stupid amounts of grip where needed to cope with the games physics engine wich is not perfect.
Now back on topic and please read this time:
"I am nowhere in my post asking for realistic tire wear. All I'm saying is that the Soft compound tires should've been left alone and the harder compounds made last longer."

For a realistic tire model I pay a monthly subscription to iRacing.

You have to consider your suspension setting , the wear you can get from settings matter just as much as how you drive the car.

 

[dr_slump]

Funny, first people complain that RS tires lasted too long, now it's the other way around. RS tires are supposed to be one shot qualify tires, meaning you drive one lap about 70% peak to warm tires up, then lap two to go for a time. RS tires shouldn't be lasting 20+ laps anyway, depending on driving style they should get 10 - 15 laps. This should see who actually drives and learns to conserve and tune for the race. instead of balls to the walls driving style 500PP on RS. lol. I've been using SS and SH not bad even up to 600PP.

Really?
For me the Soft tires were ok, but the hard and medium tires lasted not long enough.

Anyway, you say 10-15laps on softs is good. Have you tested the tires after the update? 10-15laps on a normal track is impossible.
I did a few laps on Laguna Seca with my GTS 02 and had to pit at latest after 4laps (offline, realistic).

 

[Jav]

You have to consider your suspension setting , the wear you can get from settings matter just as much as how you drive the car.

That's beyond the point. The fact is that they screwd up with this, no matter your setting there's no getting arroun the extremely exessive tire wear. I fear this stupid feature will drive away many serious league racers and developers.
With rFactor2 right arround the corners, C.A.R.S gaining momentum and getting better every day and anouncing the sim will be available for console plataforms plus iRacing becoming more accesible to the console sim racers GT5 is just sinking deeper and deeper every day...
It really is a shame because I love this franchise and have owned every title PD has produced for the US market.

Really?
For me the Soft tires were ok, but the hard and medium tires lasted not long enough.

Anyway, you say 10-15laps on softs is good. Have you tested the tires after the update? 10-15laps on a normal track is impossible.
I did a few laps on Laguna Seca with my GTS 02 and had to pit at latest after 4laps.

You wont get 15 laps on Nurb GP/F even if you use hards! that's just stupid!

 

[dr_slump]

You wont get 15 laps on Nurb GP/F even if you use hards! that's just stupid!

Probably not even 10! I guess at maximum 7 or 8 laps, but haven't tested it there.

---
And in real endurance races they do 2 or 3 stints on one set tires.....

 

[Jav]

Probably not even 10! I guess at maximum 7 or 8 laps, but haven't tested it there.

---
And in real endurance races they do 2 or 3 stints on one set tires.....

Exactly! Race hards should last at least 25 laps under the conditions we tested, with the softs lasting12-15 laps like they did before, now 10 laps is exactly what we are getting on cars at GT1 Specs from the Racing Hards.

 

[dr_slump]

Exactly! Race hards should last at least 25 laps under the conditions we tested, with the softs lasting12-15 laps like they did before, now 10 laps is exactly what we are getting on cars at GT1 Specs from the Racing Hards.

Do a burnout with the soft tires........... 5sec and they're gone!

 

[Jav]

Lol!! No way! For real??

 

[Poly]

I just completed a 15 lap race on Tokyo in racing hards with a 520~ hp GT500 car. It's definitely doable if you know how to pace yourself and conserve tires.

You need to drive smoothly by being gentle on the pedals: avoid spinning the tires during acceleration, avoid locking the brakes during deceleration and avoid sliding through corners.

By the end of my 15 lap stint, my front tires had 50% of their life remaining, while the rear had 40%. My opponents all raced with racing mediums and pitted midway through the race. I finished in the middle of the pack, but it was a very fun and rewarding experience.

Although the new accelerated tire wear cannot be modeled realistically to every type of car and racing series, it provides a very fun experience. Strategy and tire conservation now matters more than ever.

Finally, it's arguable whether the tires degrade way too fast or not. Personally, I hope they increase the durability a little bit as well. At least hards last longer than softs now.

Edit: Also, people need to understand the difficulty in creating a universal tire model that works for all cars. In reality, racing slicks or soft tires in different race series have completely different grip and properties. In F1 for example, super softs will only last about 10 laps. PD probably doesn't have all the necessary data to fully simulate all the different race series specific compounds and tire wear characteristics. So if I understand, the in-game tires degrade simply in function of frictional force, which correlates to the speed and weight of the car, among other factors.

 

[Jav]

The concept of introducing tire/pit strategy to the game is good and I love the concept, but the execution of the concept is simply a joke!
Tire wear for softs was somewhat acceptable before the update, all they needed to do was leave the softs alone and make the harder tires last longer. What they've done now is just ridiculous!

 

[Disavowed]

Funny, first people complain that RS tires lasted too long, now it's the other way around. RS tires are supposed to be one shot qualify tires, meaning you drive one lap about 70% peak to warm tires up, then lap two to go for a time. RS tires shouldn't be lasting 20+ laps anyway, depending on driving style they should get 10 - 15 laps. This should see who actually drives and learns to conserve and tune for the race. instead of balls to the walls driving style 500PP on RS. lol. I've been using SS and SH not bad even up to 600PP.

Yeah, I was one of those people! But right now it's just ridiculous. On the Nurburgring track, if you warm up your tires on the first lap, you end up with about 1/3 tread left for the 2nd lap. If you go full out on the first lap.... well, you'll run out of tread by the time you reach the half lap mark.

IMHO, RS tires should have been left alone or perhaps increase the wear rate by at most 25% while the RM and RH should have had their wear rate reduced so that they last longer.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Even though I know people are reporting increased tyre wear, I cant help but feel my game is broken and the tyre wear is wrong. The Tyre wear is ridiculous I don't know how people are even making one lap of most courses unless they are crawling mine go in about 10 corners!

 

[Spagetti69]

Yeah, I was one of those people! But right now it's just ridiculous. On the Nurburgring track, if you warm up your tires on the first lap, you end up with about 1/3 tread left for the 2nd lap. If you go full out on the first lap.... well, you'll run out of tread by the time you reach the half lap mark.

IMHO, RS tires should have been left alone or perhaps increase the wear rate by at most 25% while the RM and RH should have had their wear rate reduced so that they last longer.

Are you saying you need to put every lap of the Nurb?

 

[will-i-am]

Results: Sports hards on the 24 Nurb

Found this lap by lap of the 2011 24hr nurb race

http://adac.24h-rennen.de/uploads/media/24h_Rennen_LapByLap_04.pdf

Looks like pits are 6-10 laps

Kaz and team did every 7 laps
71 Schulze Tobias / Schulze Michael

Right? How far can we go on that car bone stock with those tires? Gonna try later.

Any testing for this should be done with a bone stock vehicle with all aids off (except maybe ABS...which in theory might help tire wear by preventing you from locking up the brakes).

Regarding the N24h race... My memory is a bit fussy - watched the whole thing on stream and got really tired - but I'm fairly sure most teams pitted when they did due to fuel, not tyres. That's why the Porsche hybrid was going further than the "regular". Also as you can see in the pdf linked earlier in the thread many teams had very fast laps (in some cases fastest lap) on the last lap before pit-in...

The tests need to be made acording to the real car tire grip and not with the tyre name that gives GT5. Most racing tyres in GT5 are not meant for realistic gameplay, just to ease the handle giving out of scale unrealistic grades of grip.

The same mistake was made before when some people wanted to compare the peformance and accuracy of GT5 doing real life vs game laps without adjusting the default car grip.

Remember the tyres used in the Coulthard Seasonal Event(comfort softs). The recomended tyres by Polyphony to match the real life performance in the R8 comparison at Laguna Seca(comfort medium). The low grip tyres used for the GT Academy competitions(comfort and sports tyres for race cars). Etc..

Zero I remember those as well so I did it with sport hards. 2 compounds lower than what came on the car in gt5

24hr Nurb / Schulze Motorsports GTR
Stock as it comes from the dealer but with Sport hard tires / 7 laps

The tires out lasted the fuel. This GTR can go around the 24hr Nurb 7 laps on a load of fuel by the way. Lap 6 the tires were half and starting to slow down. On lap 7 sign were showing in drivability. Had to pit for fuel.

Ill wait for comparison from JDMking on sport softs.

 

[Spagetti69]

Ah 7 laps sound a lot better.

 

[UWanq]

That's what I like to see hard facts instead of 'cowboys' shooting from the hip. I did a tiny test, (only 3.5 laps,) noticing how the tyre wear did increase on racing softs using a gt500 I raced in an hour race 2 days prior. Spent the remainder of my evening on comfort/sports tyres. Noticed no real difference on other compounds however none of us deviated from the general choice.

Until I do further testing I'm going remain inconclusive on the matter. What i do like, (only if this is entirely true,) about this update is that there now is a real reason for choosing tyres during a race. R/hards can strategically come into play just as R/softs can. This parameter has been in motorsports for decades. Seems that if PD has made a step in that direction then It's better for us as users who want a 'simulation' from a console game. They don't do beta testing any longer, so the only way they know if new initiatives have been successful is to update live and recalibrate when needed.

 

[Disavowed]

Are you saying you need to put every lap of the Nurb?

On RS, you won't even be able to do 1 lap or perhaps by the end you're down to a sliver of tire left and sliding all over.

On RM, you'll have to pit after the 2nd lap because the tires won't last a 3rd lap.

On RH, you can do 3 laps for sure but the 4th lap is a gamble.

If you even so much as spin your rear wheels coming out of a turn, I swear, you can actually see your tire wear indicator move! LoL!

Note that this is on LMP race cars. I haven't tested the other cars yet.

 

[SavageEvil]

On RS, you won't even be able to do 1 lap or perhaps by the end you're down to a sliver of tire left and sliding all over.

On RM, you'll have to pit after the 2nd lap because the tires won't last a 3rd lap.

On RH, you can do 3 laps for sure but the 4th lap is a gamble.

If you even so much as spin your rear wheels coming out of a turn, I swear, you can actually see your tire wear indicator move! LoL!

Note that this is on LMP race cars. I haven't tested the other cars yet.

Here I thought you were talking about regular cars. LMP's were hard to handle before the update and they ate up tires because of how much power they put down. PD needs to give us ability to change the sensitivity of the brake and accelerator along with dead zone adjustment, that should help guys with hammer foot to not burn their tires down. You need fine throttle control to properly accelerate and decelerate with higher powered cars, also is your downforce set to maximum or much higher than the default settings? Are your camber settings on the too far side causing premature tire wear, stiff suspension settings that cause the tires to skip on bumpy surfaces? Try driving a regular car first and see what that is like.

 

[2011Z]

I'm in the N24hr race now. 2 laps on RH tops! RS gone after 1.5 laps! Not realistic in any way, shape or form!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I guess PD are planning an F1 game and they're testing the Pirelli tire model with us for the update.

note: f1 fans will get this.

 

[seanneedscar]

I dont understand how they could do this after the game has been out for a year..

i cant even do 4 laps on SPA anymore. definitely no more 2 laps on the RING either

I'm really really really disappointed

 

[Disavowed]

Here I thought you were talking about regular cars. LMP's were hard to handle before the update and they ate up tires because of how much power they put down. PD needs to give us ability to change the sensitivity of the brake and accelerator along with dead zone adjustment, that should help guys with hammer foot to not burn their tires down. You need fine throttle control to properly accelerate and decelerate with higher powered cars, also is your downforce set to maximum or much higher than the default settings? Are your camber settings on the too far side causing premature tire wear, stiff suspension settings that cause the tires to skip on bumpy surfaces? Try driving a regular car first and see what that is like.

I roll into the throttle coming out of turns so I'm not the hammer foot type. If I drive any slower, I'd be out for a Sunday drive in a LMP!

My suspension and lsd settings are either stock or not far from it. I've increased the downforce but it's minimal since the normal (stock) settings for LMP cars are already very high. Having Bob run the LMP car gives approximately the same results...

I'll try out the other cars when I get home.

 

[Lambob]

Went online last night with a 0/0/0 Scirocco R '10, mildly tuned to 505pp, and my RS tires lasted only 1 lap. It was a 2 lap race, so I pitted. Changed them to RM, and even those tires, on the 1,275Kg FF car would not last 2 laps.

Then I swapped to the beast which is the Nissan GTR-35 TC from a few months back and

WHOA NELLY!

What the heck did PD to do the online experience? I feel like this car drives like a mini RedBull on steroids out of juvenile detention! It blasted out of the stopped start from 6th, to 1st in the first corner! lol. Everything felt strange, like 2.5x speed / accelleration,

it could be me, since i stuck to 505pp for the last 3 weeks , but this car was absolutely insane, and hit my max speed of 339km/hr seemingly faster than before.

Staying on topic, the RS tires are useless now, if PD keeps it this way, then gone are the glory days of dashing through this track.

If realism is to be increased, then I respect that, perhaps RS tires are now reserved for Lightweight racecars?

Perhaps our downforce settings need to be relaxed a ton?

thoughts?

I kinda miss the last update, this one is harsh. Wind is ok, but too loud and speakers blasting, with tire squeal.

love/hate, I will wait and see.

 

[Spagetti69]

On RS, you won't even be able to do 1 lap or perhaps by the end you're down to a sliver of tire left and sliding all over.

On RM, you'll have to pit after the 2nd lap because the tires won't last a 3rd lap.

On RH, you can do 3 laps for sure but the 4th lap is a gamble.

If you even so much as spin your rear wheels coming out of a turn, I swear, you can actually see your tire wear indicator move! LoL!

Note that this is on LMP race cars. I haven't tested the other cars yet.

Wow around 148 pit stops in a 24hr race.
That's with a very conservative 10 minute lap.

592 individual tires. How would you even transport that lot lol.

 

[Nismo34]

Wow around 148 pit stops in a 24hr race.
That's with a very conservative 10 minute lap.

592 individual tires. How would you even transport that lot lol.

Solution: Dont use racing tyres?

 

[Spagetti69]

Solution: Dont use racing tyres?

On an LMP car? What should you use?
Does testing show that Sport compound last more than Racing on an LMP.

 

[SuperSic]

The most disappointing thing about this matter is that, like with the slipstream tweak, even they aknowledged the problem they took wrong action to fix it.

So now, it's almost impossible for them to make a further tweaking, leaving RS as they were pre-2.02, and reducing the tire wear of the RM and RH accordingly, because it will make them look bad. In the same way they will look bad if they further reduce the slipstream effect, something that needs to be done if we are talking about the real driving simulator.

 

[analog]

What i do like, (only if this is entirely true,) about this update is that there now is a real reason for choosing tyres during a race. R/hards can strategically come into play just as R/softs can. This parameter has been in motorsports for decades. Seems that if PD has made a step in that direction then It's better for us as users who want a 'simulation' from a console game.

Hope this is indeed true (racing hard and normal lasting longer than softs) as strategy becomes more important in endurance and online races.
It's nothing new though, previous GT-games did exactly that but for some reason they deleted this aspect for GT5.
Although the increase of wear across the board for all tyres slightly worries me, I already thought the tyres didn't last very long.
If it was up to me, I would've preferred to just see a difference in wear by making the hard and normal compounds last longer, not increase the wear of softs also.

 

[Zer0]

Explain this to me then: In real life a Super GT car can do 30 laps on Suzuka on a set of tires that can put down lap times that require RMs to get near. Shouldn't the slicks in GT be more durable?

If you need RM to match a real lap with the same car you are doing something wrong. Simply as that.

Read my post again, I am nowhere in my post asking for realistic tire wear. All I'm saying is that the Soft compound tires should've been left alone and the harder compounds made last longer.
Now, not even the grippiest tires on earth desintegrate in 3 laps! That's just plain silly! Yes I agree the race tire model in GT5 is not the best arround far from it, but it is what we have. Obviously the stupid amounts of grip where needed to cope with the games physics engine wich is not perfect.
Now back on topic and please read this time:
"I am nowhere in my post asking for realistic tire wear. All I'm saying is that the Soft compound tires should've been left alone and the harder compounds made last longer."

For a realistic tire model I pay a monthly subscription to iRacing.

Then you want to have the unrealistic high grip of the R tyres with the tyre wear asociated to the real life less grip slick tyres? sorry then I thought that you wanted to play realistic with GT5. Those people will have little to non problem with the tyre wear.

You keep looking only at the tyre names to do your tests and blaming the tyre wear for it so I think you didn't pay attention to this:

"You need to understand that tyre grades in GT5 are not equal in names to their real life counterparts."

Is not a fault of the tyre model. GT games have always had special tyre selection for simulation. Never the default tyres or the grade name wich gave the game have meant equal performance to their real life tyres. That is part of the game accessibility(more grip by default and an arcade like grip scale with the R compounds). Like the default driving aids switched on in all cars to make it easy to begginers. Now those R compounds are scaled properly in wear so they wear as fast as their grip is exagerated.

Zero I remember those as well so I did it with sport hards. 2 compounds lower than what came on the car in gt5

24hr Nurb / Schulze Motorsports GTR
Stock as it comes from the dealer but with Sport hard tires / 7 laps

The tires out lasted the fuel. This GTR can go around the 24hr Nurb 7 laps on a load of fuel by the way. Lap 6 the tires were half and starting to slow down. On lap 7 sign were showing in drivability. Had to pit for fuel.

Well done, that's what I meant. 👍

 

[Tintorera]

I have gathered some pitting stats from the 2011 24h LeMans race.

The winner, Audi R18 TDI completed 355 laps and did 31 pit stops. This makes an average of 11.45 laps between pits.

The Peugeot 908 did 355 laps with only 28 pits averaging on 12.67 laps between pits ol la sarthe.

Neither of these cars are in GT5, but it would be awsome if someone could preform a test on la sarthe with the Audi R10 TDI and the Peugeot 908 HDI FAP with RH/RM/RS to see what number of laps you can make with the different tires. You can also compare lap times to see wich tyre is closest to the times achived.

I'll summarise the stats here:

Audi R18 TDI, 11.5 laps between pits, Best lap 3:25.289, avg lap 3:40 ish

Peugeot 908, 12,5 laps between pits, Best lap 3:26.298, avg lap 3:40 ish

I'm currently offshore on a chinese drilling rig Itching to get my hands on the new 2.02 patch and the new DLC. But I guess that have to wait to 12th of January, when I get back home.

Would be awsome if someone could do a little testing for comparisom.

 

[Disavowed]

I have gathered some pitting stats from the 2011 24h LeMans race.

The winner, Audi R18 TDI completed 355 laps and did 31 pit stops. This makes an average of 11.45 laps between pits.

The Peugeot 908 did 355 laps with only 28 pits averaging on 12.67 laps between pits ol la sarthe.

Neither of these cars are in GT5, but it would be awsome if someone could preform a test on la sarthe with the Audi R10 TDI and the Peugeot 908 HDI FAP with RH/RM/RS to see what number of laps you can make with the different tires. You can also compare lap times to see wich tyre is closest to the times achived.

I'll summarise the stats here:

Audi R18 TDI, 11.5 laps between pits, Best lap 3:25.289, avg lap 3:40 ish

Peugeot 908, 12,5 laps between pits, Best lap 3:26.298, avg lap 3:40 ish

I'm currently offshore on a chinese drilling rig Itching to get my hands on the new 2.02 patch and the new DLC. But I guess that have to wait to 12th of January, when I get back home.

Would be awsome if someone could do a little testing for comparisom.

I'll run a test once Bob is done with the 24hr Nurburgring race. I started it yesterday before I went to bed and now after work (17:50 min into the race), my Bentley Speed 8 is in first and 7 laps ahead of the 2nd place car which is the McLaren F1 GTR! That McLaren is almost 2 laps ahead of the 3rd place car, the Audi R8 Race Car '01. So how more unrealistic can it get?

24hr La Sarthe probably won't be much different but hey, I'll give it a try afterwards LoL!