Rapid Tire Wear after update

[Eggy41]

Might be slightly off topic but has anyone noticed their cards pogoing around ? Initially noticed it with the US cars in starts and stripes (put it down to it being a US car) but just did 3 laps of the ring as a test for the 24 hour and it was all over the show !

I drive on a pad and I'm no great shakes, but it a completely different experience. Which might be better once I've got used to it ....

 

[sailworksman]

Might be slightly off topic but has anyone noticed their cards pogoing around ? Initially noticed it with the US cars in starts and stripes (put it down to it being a US car) but just did 3 laps of the ring as a test for the 24 hour and it was all over the show !

I drive on a pad and I'm no great shakes, but it a completely different experience. Which might be better once I've got used to it ....

Yes the driving physics have changed-for the better in my opinion! Seem way more true to life.

 

[xSNAKEx]

What PD need to do is give each tire a different cliff (look up the term if you do not know what it means).

RH tires should have a very gradual cliff. Grip should reduce evenly until about 90% tire and after that the reduction in grip should not be a drastic curve. While they loose initial grip more easily, they should degrade slower.

RM should be about the same but start to decrease grip more rapidly at around 85%. Like medium states, it should be about half way between RS and RH in terms of degradation rate and grip level.

RS should be extremely grippy but once they hit 80-70% degradation should rapidly decrease in grip.

Essentially a smooth drive should be able to use RS tires and go a little faster than someone with RH but have to pit sooner.

Yes smart make RS tyred last even less by only making the first 10% usable. That way then can run out in half a corner instead of half a lap.

YES I AM DOING SO WELL I ENTERED THAT FIRST CORNER PERFECTLY, AIM FOR THE APEX, PHEW BARELY GOT IT..... LOSING GRIP AHH DAMN NEED TO PIT

 

[Poly]

It would be awesome to have a tire wear speed adjustment setting for online lobbies. Similar to weather variability. Have it go from 1-10 where 10 has the fastest tire degradation. This would make everybody happy!

 

[Rotary Junkie]

It would be awesome to have a tire wear speed adjustment setting for online lobbies. Similar to weather variability. Have it go from 1-10 where 10 has the fastest tire degradation. This would make everybody happy!

Add in a similar option for fuel usage and you've got what the PC sims have had for a while.

 

[chuyler1]

What PD need to do is give each tire a different cliff (look up the term if you do not know what it means).

Yes. This is what they need to do.

This is what I would like to see when it comes to grip for each tire...but it will probably never happen.

1 = poor grip
10 = best grip

Progression on a typical road course:
RH: 7 7 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 7 7 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 5 5 4 3 2 1
RM: 8 9 9 9 9 9 8 8 7 7 6 6 5 5 4 2 0
RS: 9 10 10 10 8 8 6 4 2 0

The idea being that drivers in RS tires have a very short window of peak performance before it drops off rapidly, while RH tires have a longer window of peak performance followed by a more gradual decline in grip. The RMs fall in the middle with a moderate window and moderate drop off.

 

[SavageEvil]

Hmm, I just drove around the Nurb time change course on sport tires, took about half the lap to warm them up and only damaged about 10 percent of the tires with about 70% of my max; mind you I was using the DS3 and no aids what so ever. Car in question the Jaguar XJ220 modified to around 594PP. Tell you what for an accelerated tire wear, I was not driving like people normally would, I was actually accelerating at a quick pace while avoiding making my tires squeal; was a pretty smooth drive. Now if you guys would realize that race car drivers don't drive like you do, while they drive their cars (seemingly) hard they do stay within a range and their cars are set up to take advantage of the terrain. So their wheels aren't skipping, they seldom accelerate so hard that their tires are squealing out of corners, nor are the tires chirping. If you listen to your car you will know exactly why your tires are being consumed. If the sense of speed and danger factor increased you would drive your car within the limits rarely pushing it to levels no human would ever in real life. Stop complaining when you don't use your audio cues to your advantage. Listen to your car, sure you want to go fast but there is a trade off. This brings strategy to driving, also learning how to tune to suit the course comes in handy as well as your ability to be smooth, now you will see why the AI drove scripted lines, realistically drivers tend to follow the same lines because it places less stress on tires if you use the best possible path. While GT5 isn't perfect with it's tire damage, it does highlight one thing about people who play it, many of you are hamfisted in your driving, more apt to drive like the devil is chasing you...tire squeal hah as long as I am still going it's fine. When in real life if you drove and heard your tires squeal like they do in the game your heart rate would be so high and your hands would be sweaty...don't even go there. Now there is a reason to actually drive the car and not run it into the ground.

Now PD needs to up the sense of speed some more and I need my high velocity camera judder. The new clearer sounds are amazing, jag turbo spool up is sweet. Hope PD continues to refine this game, GT 6 will be incredible with the knowledge PD gains on GT5 venture.

 

[Jav]

So now, it's almost impossible for them to make a further tweaking, leaving RS as they were pre-2.02, and reducing the tire wear of the RM and RH accordingly, because it will make them look bad.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with them fixing this mess, hell they've been doing it since the game came out.

Then you want to have the unrealistic high grip of the R tyres with the tyre wear asociated to the real life less grip slick tyres? sorry then I thought that you wanted to play realistic with GT5. Those people will have little to non problem with the tyre wear.

You keep looking only at the tyre names to do your tests and blaming the tyre wear for it so I think you didn't pay attention to this:

"You need to understand that tyre grades in GT5 are not equal in names to their real life counterparts."

Is not a fault of the tyre model. GT games have always had special tyre selection for simulation. Never the default tyres or the grade name wich gave the game have meant equal performance to their real life tyres. That is part of the game accessibility(more grip by default and an arcade like grip scale with the R compounds). Like the default driving aids switched on in all cars to make it easy to begginers. Now those R compounds are scaled properly in wear so they wear as fast as their grip is exagerated.



Well done, that's what I meant. 👍

There's your problem, you think of GT5 as a simulator wich is not. GT5 is a very very good game, but everything from their tire model, physics engine to the way they simulate speed is wrong. And theres your problem, they need to give the cars those ridiculous amounts of grip to keep them on the road for any reasonable lenght of time.
The Comfort to sport Tire range works just fine for stock and relatively low powered cars. But when they go to highly tuned and high hp/heavy cars the stupids amounts of grip from the race tire range is necessary because of their way to simulate speed goes overboard in this cars.
The reality is that we need the race tire range in GT5 for the higher powered heavy race cars even if it is "unrealistic" is the only way they work.

As far as I read, PD failed. There is still no strategy as the pace of racing softs is so much higher than that of racing hards or mediums, even if you pit constantly you'll still be faster.

Not really, on your first pitstop you'll be overtaken, you will catch back up but by your second stop you'll be too far behind. Already tested this with proven consistent drivers.

I think they should of made the RM and RH tires last longer and left the RS tires the same as they were.
Not very impressed with this update. Way too many changes to game at one time. I like the fact they are trying to make it a better game. But they need to read the feedback on there changes to see how many players liked or disliked them. Then take action and correct or tweak there changes to suite the players needs and wants. After all without us there would be no them.

That's exactly what they need to do to fix the mess they've created!

It would be awesome to have a tire wear speed adjustment setting for online lobbies. Similar to weather variability. Have it go from 1-10 where 10 has the fastest tire degradation. This would make everybody happy!

Thats definitely an option, the lowest setting being the 2.02 wear model and high being the wearing at the same rate they did pre 2.02.

 

[chuyler1]

If the game will actually reward drivers with more laps on a set of tires...I will agree 100% with your statement. It remains to be seen whether you can come out on top with more cautious driving. However, given that you can rip through RS tires and pit as often as you need and still come out ahead of a driver on RH tires...I doubt there will be much reward for going easy on your tires. You will just end up losing more time per lap than it will take to make those extra pit stops.

 

[Jav]

If the game will actually reward drivers with more laps on a set of tires...I will agree 100% with your statement. It remains to be seen whether you can come out on top with more cautious driving. However, given that you can rip through RS tires and pit as often as you need and still come out ahead of a driver on RH tires...I doubt there will be much reward for going easy on your tires. You will just end up losing more time per lap than it will take to make those extra pit stops.

From how we tested we got 6 laps out of the Race Soft tires with the fastest lap being 3.5 off of our previous personal best.
All testing was done at Nurburgring GP/F with GTPFIA GT1 spec cars.

 

[Disavowed]

Hmm, I just drove around the Nurb time change course on sport tires, took about half the lap to warm them up and only damaged about 10 percent of the tires with about 70% of my max; mind you I was using the DS3 and no aids what so ever. Car in question the Jaguar XJ220 modified to around 594PP. Tell you what for an accelerated tire wear, I was not driving like people normally would, I was actually accelerating at a quick pace while avoiding making my tires squeal; was a pretty smooth drive. Now if you guys would realize that race car drivers don't drive like you do, while they drive their cars (seemingly) hard they do stay within a range and their cars are set up to take advantage of the terrain. So their wheels aren't skipping, they seldom accelerate so hard that their tires are squealing out of corners, nor are the tires chirping. If you listen to your car you will know exactly why your tires are being consumed. If the sense of speed and danger factor increased you would drive your car within the limits rarely pushing it to levels no human would ever in real life. Stop complaining when you don't use your audio cues to your advantage. Listen to your car, sure you want to go fast but there is a trade off. This brings strategy to driving, also learning how to tune to suit the course comes in handy as well as your ability to be smooth, now you will see why the AI drove scripted lines, realistically drivers tend to follow the same lines because it places less stress on tires if you use the best possible path. While GT5 isn't perfect with it's tire damage, it does highlight one thing about people who play it, many of you are hamfisted in your driving, more apt to drive like the devil is chasing you...tire squeal hah as long as I am still going it's fine. When in real life if you drove and heard your tires squeal like they do in the game your heart rate would be so high and your hands would be sweaty...don't even go there. Now there is a reason to actually drive the car and not run it into the ground.

Now PD needs to up the sense of speed some more and I need my high velocity camera judder. The new clearer sounds are amazing, jag turbo spool up is sweet. Hope PD continues to refine this game, GT 6 will be incredible with the knowledge PD gains on GT5 venture.

So you're saying that most of us are ham fisted and hammer footed fools? Real race drivers seldom "squealing" tires out of corners? You've got to be kidding me right? This is a racing game, not a Sunday drive around the neighborhood! LoL!

 

[Jav]

So you're saying that most of us are ham fisted and hammer footed fools? Real race drivers seldom "squealing" tires out of corners? You've got to be kidding me right? This is a racing game, not a Sunday drive around the neighborhood! LoL!

He's under the assumption that no one here has ever driven and competed in real life race cars... He's wrong, very wrong. I don't know how old he is but some here have probably been doing it longer than he's been alive...

 

[chuyler1]

From how we tested we got 6 laps out of the Race Soft tires with the fastest lap being 3.5 off of our previous personal best.
All testing was done at Nurburgring GP/F with GTPFIA GT1 spec cars.

3.5 x 6 = 21 seconds lost per cycle.

Given a 12 lap race, you'll pit once while another driver will pit twice (only making it 4 laps per set of tires). While on the track they will gain about 42 seconds and the extra pit stop is only 30-35 seconds. So you will lose despite saving your tires. That is just hypothetical. There are many variables involved...but intentionally running slower laps to save tires never works out. You need to keep them out of the red...but if you aren't hearing them at the limit of adhesion, you won't be competitive.

 

[Jav]

3.5 x 6 = 21 seconds lost per cycle.

Given a 12 lap race, you'll pit once while another driver will pit twice (only making it 4 laps per set of tires). While on the track they will gain about 42 seconds and the extra pit stop is only 30-35 seconds. So you will lose despite saving your tires. That is just hypothetical. There are many variables involved...but intentionally running slower laps to save tires never works out. You need to keep them out of the red...but if you aren't hearing them at the limit of adhesion, you won't be competitive.

Keep in mind that a pitstop in GP/F costs about 50 seconds, and the pace at wich we raced is the fastest you can go, no mistakes to cause extra tire wear and loose time, not slow to try and save tires, pure race pace. It is just ridiculous, the new wear model is just geared towards the people who call a 10 lap race an enduro and want tire strategy in it, wich is just dumb!

 

[chuyler1]

50 seconds, really? I'll have to time that one. well i'm fine with the RS tires wearing fast. Anything to mix it up a bit. I just think the RH should live up to their name and give the driver more laps at optimum grip.

 

[Jav]

50 seconds, really? I'll have to time that one. well i'm fine with the RS tires wearing fast. Anything to mix it up a bit. I just think the RH should live up to their name and give the driver more laps at optimum grip.

Just add up the time loss from your in and out lap, and Nurb has one of the shortest pit lanes in the game! Thank god we don't use the endurance pits at Spa!
It really doesn't sit well with a lot of people, every race online series that runs anything more powerful than SuperGT cars is gonna suffer from this because we need the extra grip from the Race soft tires!
All I hope for now is them giving us the ability adjust the wear if they are not fixing it the way it should wich is leaving the Softs alone and increasing the durability of the harder compounds!

 

[chuyler1]

Is that with filling up or just tires? Most of the time I fall back no more than 35 seconds...but then again, I usually race cars at 500pp or lower. Laguna Seca has a long pit road though, and that one can be 40+.

 

[Jav]

Is that with filling up or just tires? Most of the time I fall back no more than 35 seconds...but then again, I usually race cars at 500pp or lower. Laguna Seca has a long pit road though, and that one can be 40+.

15 liters of fuel wich is pretty close to what takes to change tires, trust me we are on our 3rd season for this particular series and have plenty of experience in other leagues as well. We know how to conserve tires and be competitive at the same time, we know how to minimize time lost in the pits.

 

[chuyler1]

I think its the power level difference. I'm usually racing on sports tires with about 450pp. It takes a lot longer to go down the straight...so time lost isn't as big. But anyway, there is some strategy, I won't argue that. But I think it is going to come down to how you drive a RS tire and not which tire you pick.

 

[Jav]

I think its the power level difference. I'm usually racing on sports tires with about 450pp. It takes a lot longer to go down the straight...so time lost isn't as big. But anyway, there is some strategy, I won't argue that. But I think it is going to come down to how you drive a RS tire and not which tire you pick.

Trust me RS tires are very much out of the question for us now, RMs are a gamble and RH just dont last long enough, 10 laps before they dissapear on lap 11, 7 laps before they stageringly drop off in performance. What a joke, thank you PD!

 

[chuyler1]

I'm confused, so which tire are you going to use then?

 

[Jav]

I'm confused, so which tire are you going to use then?

Lol! Tire choice remains open, but in reality we will be forced to use hards with twice the stops, or meds with 3 times the stops!!

 

[chuyler1]

Ok. That may be the case at GP/F but did you see my post a page or so back? Last night I ran a test with friends at Tokyo R246. I made 2 pit stops running RH tires for an hour long race and ended up 1:00 behind the leader who made 4 pit stops for RS tires each time. It may play out differently at GP/F but that's what we found at R246. Normally my friend and I run similar lap times but usually I run a little quicker with fewer mistakes than him. Cars and tunes were identical for this test, both of us commented how we could improve things with some better tuning...but that would have skewed the results.

 

[Jav]

Ok. That may be the case at GP/F but did you see my post a page or so back? Last night I ran a test with friends at Tokyo R246. I made 2 pit stops running RH tires for an hour long race and ended up 1:00 behind the leader who made 4 pit stops for RS tires each time. It may play out differently at GP/F but that's what we found at R246. Normally my friend and I run similar lap times but usually I run a little quicker with fewer mistakes than him. Cars and tunes were identical for this test, both of us commented how we could improve things with some better tuning...but that would have skewed the results.

Don't recall reading it, for some reason I'm under the assupmtion you used SuperGT cars... What cars did you guys used again?

 

[chuyler1]

Gt300, the premium Autobacs Arta Garayia to be specific.

 

[Jav]

Gt300, the premium Autobacs Arta Garayia to be specific.

Ok gotcha! Yeah, with lower powered lighter cars it could work, but again 4 stops in a 1hr race is just ridiculous!

 

[chuyler1]

Ok gotcha! Yeah, with lower powered lighter cars it could work, but again 4 stops in a 1hr race is just ridiculous!

yes it is...but if the tires thought of as qualifying tires it might make sense. I think overall the tire wear is accelerated to provide the necessity of a pit stop without the necessity of racing for 2.5 hours.


...but every car is going to wear tires differently so without having some sort of customizable parameters so drivers could configure things specifically to their needs, no setting from PD is going to make everyone happy.

 

[Jav]

yes it is...but if the tires thought of as qualifying tires it might make sense. I think overall the tire wear is accelerated to provide the necessity of a pit stop without the necessity of racing for 2.5 hours.


...but every car is going to wear tires differently so without having some sort of customizable parameters so drivers could configure things specifically to their needs, no setting from PD is going to make everyone happy.

Exactly, any car above a SuperGT car is gonna suffer dearly. PD needs to come up with a solution fast! A tire wear adjusting feature may very well be the best option with the lowest setting being what we have now and the highest being 3 times that.

 

[Cowboys965]

Exactly, any car above a SuperGT car is gonna suffer dearly. PD needs to come up with a solution fast! A tire wear adjusting feature may very well be the best option with the lowest setting being what we have now and the highest being 3 times that.

It could be like, 1x 2x 3x 4x tire wear etc.

I mean NASCAR: Dirt to Daytona had that!

 

[Jav]

It could be like, 1x 2x 3x 4x tire wear etc.

I mean NASCAR: Dirt to Daytona had that!

Definitely, it would be the better option to please every side from the online league racers, to the 5 lap heroes who want pit strategy on a 5 lap race.