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Now I'm Checking Tire wear by B-spec Indy 500, wait my report
Rapid Tire Wear after update
- Thread starter speedracergirl
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Padracer99
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- D-UNEXPECTED001
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- PowderGuy
- 172
- K-Town
- Tintorera
I am aware that they sometimes double, and even triple stint the tyres.
But still if we could run 11-12 laps on la sarthe on the tires, we probably need to stop for fuel anyway.
I dont see any triple stints being possible in GT5, not even with the old tyre model. But maybe a set of RH can last the 11-12 laps with conservative driving at around 80% pace.
But a test with i.e. the 908 HDI FAP on la sarte would reveal any of these doubts!
Anyone?
- 458
The tyre wear is ridiculous now. Was in a nurburgring free run lobby with no abs. I ran a Golf VI R with all tuning except weight and engine upgrades on racing soft tyres and there were almost no front tyres left after 2 laps without brake locking and wheelspin. Glad the comfort tyres still last long
- 148
- Boston
- Hypergolem
I made a test on a Fairlady Z34 '08 on Rome track. First I made a run with RS and made 10 laps (at the end the tires were totally gone 5% maybe on the right front - 1% on left front) Best lap was the 4th, after the 6th lap times were really falling considerably. Total time was 11 minutes and 50 secs
Same run but with RH: 10 laps, fastest lap was 3rd, had around 50% of tires at the end, total time was 12 minutes and 44 secs. Now I'm sure i could have driven better on the hards and make better times.
At the end I think this is much more realistic than before. The difference between tires asks you for a decision between the racing tires for a 10 laps race (for a typical 3 laps race everybody should go with softs).
Same run but with RH: 10 laps, fastest lap was 3rd, had around 50% of tires at the end, total time was 12 minutes and 44 secs. Now I'm sure i could have driven better on the hards and make better times.
At the end I think this is much more realistic than before. The difference between tires asks you for a decision between the racing tires for a 10 laps race (for a typical 3 laps race everybody should go with softs).
chuyler1
Premium
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- chuyler1
I did some testing last night. Please take a look and post your comments in the new thread I created. It should clear up some strategy and tire wear reports with regard to GT500 racing.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6385290#post6385290
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6385290#post6385290
- 9,765
- OrlandoFL GMT-5
- GTP__Jav
I wouldn't call a 10 lap race much of and endurance race, but your point is well taken.
They should've just left the RS tires alone and increase the durability in the harder compounds, but now the damage is done so what would fix this mess is some sort of wear rate adjuster where the current rate is High and 3-4 times the durability is Low.
I've been on a long break from GT5 so I'm not as comfortable on la Sarthe as I was when I did the 24h a few months ago, and probably wore the tyres a tad more than I would've with more practice. Pre-patch I did 11 laps per pit stop in the stock 908...
Post:
3'32.4
27.6
26.8
27.5
30.0
32.1
36.5
On lap 5 the rear end started to come alive under throttle. Lap 6 I was getting slow (would have pit here in a race). 7 was bad, the car wanted to drift the whole last sector and I had just 2 or 3 pixels left on the rears as I crossed the line.
- 2,132
- Costa Rica
- D_Shark10
I just did a test with an R10 at La Sarthe (boosted up to 780HP to keep up with the R8s)
Bearing in mind I was driving competitively to not get left in the dust by the R8 and a Pescarolo C60, I checked the replay and I was using up the tires a bit faster than the AI, all of us on RMs. I would've had to pit probably 2 laps earlier than the AI.
Still I was really having to push it since the R10 was 50HP or so under the R8 and about 100HP under the C60. I'm about to take out one of my own R8s and see how that fares but I'm not expecting greatness, the AI is king when it comes to saving the tires, and I can try, but achieving that balance of finesse and competitiveness with a DS3 isn't easy.
Bearing in mind I was driving competitively to not get left in the dust by the R8 and a Pescarolo C60, I checked the replay and I was using up the tires a bit faster than the AI, all of us on RMs. I would've had to pit probably 2 laps earlier than the AI.
Still I was really having to push it since the R10 was 50HP or so under the R8 and about 100HP under the C60. I'm about to take out one of my own R8s and see how that fares but I'm not expecting greatness, the AI is king when it comes to saving the tires, and I can try, but achieving that balance of finesse and competitiveness with a DS3 isn't easy.
- 7,517
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- Cowboys965
Liamsles
That's what I sort of thought of it as.
Pirelli; F1, 2.01; GT5
- 282
- Guatemala City,
- forandypand@hotmail.com
I have also completed a grosso modo research test, since I am trying to discover a length ratio that can be used as a general guideline in knowing how long each tire lasts. Btw chuyler1. gonna borrow a few elements of your template, it's smart, scientific, and quite proffesional. 👍
Environment: Offline Practice Free Run
Vehicle: Toyota 2010 Kyle Busch #18 M&M'S® TOYOTA CAMRY '10
Tune: Stock (direct from recommended car list), except for Gear ratio, switched to default 360kmh or 224mph limit with default ratios.
Track: Daytona Superspeedway
Driver Aids: ABS=1, everything else off
Equipment: DS3
Start: Running
I chose the Daytona Oval because I was more interested in using a track that had the least amount of variables possible. Tracks like Le Sarthe or Nurbugring have far too many variables in turns and lengths, making it far too prone to mistakes and interferences (Not to mention I am probably not as consistent as the honorable chuyler1 is,
). With the Superspeedway;
- I can easily maintain consistent driving within the recommended line
- The tire temperatures are constant through the entire run, staying white for the entire ordeal (save for the 1km where the tires are blue, a tiny variable).
- Car tilting is minimized solely towards the right of the vehicle (Since the rear right tire is the one that recieves the most punishment).
- 0 variables in gas usage. The pedal is pressed completely, no variable in throttle, is a constant full gas.
The rear right wheel is the wheel that dictated the length, since a car is practically useless if so much if just one of the tyres is completely bereft of grip.
Here are the results;
- Sport Softs:
20 Good laps. In the middle of the 21st lap, the rear right wheel's grip emptied completely. Estimated good distance: 80km or 49mi
- Racing Hards:
19 Good laps. In the middle the 20th lap, the rear right wheel's grip emptied completely. Estimated good distance: 76km or 47mi
- Racing Mediums:
14 Good laps. In the middle of the 21st lap,the rear right wheel's grip emptied completely. Estimated good distance: 56km or 34.5mi
- Racing Softs:
10 Good laps. In the middle of the 11st lap, the rear right wheel's grip emptied completely. Estimated good distance: 40km or 24.5mi
What does this mean?
It appears that all things constant, Racing Hard tires last almost twice as long as Racing softs. Racing mediums seem to be very good in between, almost perfectly in between both hard and soft settings. All in all, the tyres, if expressed in a rough ratio format in the matters of the durability, would be something like this:
SS 2.1
RH 2.0
RM 1.5
RS 1.0
I have the theory that the "lifebar" of sorts programmed into each wheel type, might have a discoverable length to it, and said length can be expressed in the ratios above. Say, the lifebar of a Racing Hard is twice as long as the lifebar of a Racing Soft.
It was nice to discover that the Sporting Softs actually last longer than the Racing Hards, going hand in hand that comfort and sport tires are designed to last many many kilometers, in contrast with the Racing Tires, which are not meant to last long at all.
What this does not mean
Naturally this research is in the context of the Superspeedway, where there are few to no variables. My goal is to discover an absolute ratio for all tyre types, and test it out to see if it holds out in any other track (with a few variables of ratio of course, since the distance of the lap is an important factor).
Other Factors
There are really none. The tyre tempature stayed adequately constant, never going red or blue on any moment (save for the 1st kilometer that will always be blue). I was more interested in excluding as many variables as I could.
Final thoughts:
I now have a rough idea of the ratio of 4 tyres. I will continue to test these under different conditions, and include data also for lap speeds, and in the future, also see if I can discover a precise kilometer or mile range of each tyre, and input it ratio format (since the tyre length are not governed by how many kilometers it lasts, but by how much "rubber supply" it has. I have the hopes that said ratio can be applied to a certain point to all tracks, and see if there is a good reliable constant that can be used as a measuring device, especially when planning on endurance races for optimum pitting. The next research, I intend to also measure fuel length as well, since there may be occasions where it can be just tire change with a bit of fuel, or a huge fuel reload.
I understand that each track dictates the context of the length of how many laps are optimal, as well as the driving style, along with how much throttle variables are around (since for this test, the pressing was constant, never letting go). However, such was not the goal of this test, the goal of this research is too discover the life length ratio of each tyre, and see if said ratio can be applied to any track (with few variations in the ratio).
Once I have much much harder data, I will post it in probably chuyler's thread, or in a thread of my own. Maybe have graphs of my own, teehee.
And I have to admit, a little more mileage on all the tyre lengths would not hurt at all, whilst still maintaining the discovered ratios. Although it's not as severe to mine eyes, it just needs a bit of tweeking, thats all.
Environment: Offline Practice Free Run
Vehicle: Toyota 2010 Kyle Busch #18 M&M'S® TOYOTA CAMRY '10
Tune: Stock (direct from recommended car list), except for Gear ratio, switched to default 360kmh or 224mph limit with default ratios.
Track: Daytona Superspeedway
Driver Aids: ABS=1, everything else off
Equipment: DS3
Start: Running
I chose the Daytona Oval because I was more interested in using a track that had the least amount of variables possible. Tracks like Le Sarthe or Nurbugring have far too many variables in turns and lengths, making it far too prone to mistakes and interferences (Not to mention I am probably not as consistent as the honorable chuyler1 is,
). With the Superspeedway;- I can easily maintain consistent driving within the recommended line
- The tire temperatures are constant through the entire run, staying white for the entire ordeal (save for the 1km where the tires are blue, a tiny variable).
- Car tilting is minimized solely towards the right of the vehicle (Since the rear right tire is the one that recieves the most punishment).
- 0 variables in gas usage. The pedal is pressed completely, no variable in throttle, is a constant full gas.
The rear right wheel is the wheel that dictated the length, since a car is practically useless if so much if just one of the tyres is completely bereft of grip.
Here are the results;
- Sport Softs:
20 Good laps. In the middle of the 21st lap, the rear right wheel's grip emptied completely. Estimated good distance: 80km or 49mi
- Racing Hards:
19 Good laps. In the middle the 20th lap, the rear right wheel's grip emptied completely. Estimated good distance: 76km or 47mi
- Racing Mediums:
14 Good laps. In the middle of the 21st lap,the rear right wheel's grip emptied completely. Estimated good distance: 56km or 34.5mi
- Racing Softs:
10 Good laps. In the middle of the 11st lap, the rear right wheel's grip emptied completely. Estimated good distance: 40km or 24.5mi
What does this mean?
It appears that all things constant, Racing Hard tires last almost twice as long as Racing softs. Racing mediums seem to be very good in between, almost perfectly in between both hard and soft settings. All in all, the tyres, if expressed in a rough ratio format in the matters of the durability, would be something like this:
SS 2.1
RH 2.0
RM 1.5
RS 1.0
I have the theory that the "lifebar" of sorts programmed into each wheel type, might have a discoverable length to it, and said length can be expressed in the ratios above. Say, the lifebar of a Racing Hard is twice as long as the lifebar of a Racing Soft.
It was nice to discover that the Sporting Softs actually last longer than the Racing Hards, going hand in hand that comfort and sport tires are designed to last many many kilometers, in contrast with the Racing Tires, which are not meant to last long at all.
What this does not mean
Naturally this research is in the context of the Superspeedway, where there are few to no variables. My goal is to discover an absolute ratio for all tyre types, and test it out to see if it holds out in any other track (with a few variables of ratio of course, since the distance of the lap is an important factor).
Other Factors
There are really none. The tyre tempature stayed adequately constant, never going red or blue on any moment (save for the 1st kilometer that will always be blue). I was more interested in excluding as many variables as I could.
Final thoughts:
I now have a rough idea of the ratio of 4 tyres. I will continue to test these under different conditions, and include data also for lap speeds, and in the future, also see if I can discover a precise kilometer or mile range of each tyre, and input it ratio format (since the tyre length are not governed by how many kilometers it lasts, but by how much "rubber supply" it has. I have the hopes that said ratio can be applied to a certain point to all tracks, and see if there is a good reliable constant that can be used as a measuring device, especially when planning on endurance races for optimum pitting. The next research, I intend to also measure fuel length as well, since there may be occasions where it can be just tire change with a bit of fuel, or a huge fuel reload.
I understand that each track dictates the context of the length of how many laps are optimal, as well as the driving style, along with how much throttle variables are around (since for this test, the pressing was constant, never letting go). However, such was not the goal of this test, the goal of this research is too discover the life length ratio of each tyre, and see if said ratio can be applied to any track (with few variations in the ratio).
Once I have much much harder data, I will post it in probably chuyler's thread, or in a thread of my own. Maybe have graphs of my own, teehee.
And I have to admit, a little more mileage on all the tyre lengths would not hurt at all, whilst still maintaining the discovered ratios. Although it's not as severe to mine eyes, it just needs a bit of tweeking, thats all.
Last edited:
- 282
- Guatemala City,
- forandypand@hotmail.com
Well met chuyler1! Nice to see other peoples of science dwelling amongst GPlaneteers, hehe
Regrettebly no
However, I intend to record lap times on the next research. The next days I am a completely free man, and gonna dedicate it to study and investigate the tyre lengths, along with the gas length. I can give said replays if you still want them (although by then, I might post charts of my own, so hah).
In Grosso Modo though, I do recall that with Racing Softs, I was scoring a rough average I think of 42.3 seconds laps with optimum tyre life (above 75%), noticing I lost about .8 seconds as it gradually lost grip (below 25%). For the others.... m'fraid I can't recall, but tommorrows research should reveal the said data, and for all 11 tyre types (yes, including the rain types upon dry asphalt
).
I also gonna do a rainy condition test eventually in the SS long track (since there be no rain in Daytona, heheh).
Regrettebly no
However, I intend to record lap times on the next research. The next days I am a completely free man, and gonna dedicate it to study and investigate the tyre lengths, along with the gas length. I can give said replays if you still want them (although by then, I might post charts of my own, so hah).
In Grosso Modo though, I do recall that with Racing Softs, I was scoring a rough average I think of 42.3 seconds laps with optimum tyre life (above 75%), noticing I lost about .8 seconds as it gradually lost grip (below 25%). For the others.... m'fraid I can't recall, but tommorrows research should reveal the said data, and for all 11 tyre types (yes, including the rain types upon dry asphalt
).I also gonna do a rainy condition test eventually in the SS long track (since there be no rain in Daytona, heheh).
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
With the new fast forward feature in replays it is very easy to snag lap times. Just switch to the leaderboard mode and click the fast forward button. At GP/F each click brought me to the start of the next lap. Took longer to load the replay than to record the lap times.
- 282
- Guatemala City,
- forandypand@hotmail.com
Padracer99
(Banned)
- 68
- United Kingdom
- D-UNEXPECTED001
its important people know that a car that's having smoking from the tires , ex : wheelspin , understeer , lockup without abs
AlphaAndius ratio's are very accurate and most probably driven fast but also correctly with the balance setting but the most important factor is that the ratio relates to real life data like the real Le Mans 24h data of Le Mans of the 908 Peugeot and Audi R18 tire wearing.
Soft tires wear much more when you have smoke coming out or when you see the front tire going red on a corner or your rear going red on start. In reality if you keep overheating your tires like that for the corners , soft compounds won't last for 2 laps.
The problem is people who would steer the car beyond what the tire and car would allow , soft compounds will wear much faster under a red tire smoke state. I could already see the problem this creates for people who like to steer so much through a corner and not to mention maximum set up.
Its not exaggerated but its simply realistic , its proven given the real Le Mans 24h data of the 908 and R18. You have to consider re evaluating your exaggerated driving style and exaggerated setup.
AlphaAndius ratio's are very accurate and most probably driven fast but also correctly with the balance setting but the most important factor is that the ratio relates to real life data like the real Le Mans 24h data of Le Mans of the 908 Peugeot and Audi R18 tire wearing.
Soft tires wear much more when you have smoke coming out or when you see the front tire going red on a corner or your rear going red on start. In reality if you keep overheating your tires like that for the corners , soft compounds won't last for 2 laps.
The problem is people who would steer the car beyond what the tire and car would allow , soft compounds will wear much faster under a red tire smoke state. I could already see the problem this creates for people who like to steer so much through a corner and not to mention maximum set up.
Its not exaggerated but its simply realistic , its proven given the real Le Mans 24h data of the 908 and R18. You have to consider re evaluating your exaggerated driving style and exaggerated setup.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
No, I don't think the wear is realistic compared to Le Mans. The Le Mans cars stop more for fuel than for tires. They can make it up to 55 laps on a set of tires...but this game forces you to change tires every time you enter the pits. They race at the limit for most of the race if they intend to win, with very little variation in lap times. There is no way in hell, even with driving like a grandma you'll get 55 competitive laps at Le Mans out of any of the racing tires with the 2.02 patch.
Most drivers on this forum know how to drive and keep the tires out of the red...and even when you do that, they are wearing down super fast with this new patch. A wear setting is absolutely necessary if PD wants to consider this a driving simulator. The current setting is a great way to make short online races fun...but for their A-spec endurances to function properly they need to fix it, big time!
Padracer99
(Banned)
- 68
- United Kingdom
- D-UNEXPECTED001
Settings has a lot to do with it too.
And LMP1's are very fuel efficient with its diesel engines
and the teams are extremely professional in strategies and in having the car set up and so are the drivers and LMP1 cars have many kinds of driver aids , like active steering , TC , ABS.
The teams are extremely professional in any top motorsport racing anyway that every time they'd need big fuel which means a long stop with drivers switching , the tires are just about needed to be replaced. And every time they stop they change tires too. And they stop more for tires not for fuel but at the same time they put fuel while changing and the stops are usually long with drivers changing tires and big fueling , when they stop for tire , sure they re fuel but only in the same time the tires take to change when the purpose is for tires so every time they need tires , they fuel as much as the tire would take time to be replaced. When they do long stops the purpose is mainly for huge fuel load because they are just about to run out and then the drivers switch and they change tires too.
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chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans
"Audi could not make the R18 go on a tank of fuel for longer than 11 laps, so they decided to trade fuel efficiency in favour of speed and downforce. The Peugeot 908 can run 12 laps on the same tank"
"It appeared that while the Audi R18 couldn't run as far as the Peugeot on a tank of fuel, its tyres could last 4 stints, while the 908's could only last 3, a direct result of the low-drag design."
Translation: The Audi R18 would run 44 laps on a single set of tires, pitting for fuel every 11 laps and changing the tires every 4th pit stop.
"Audi could not make the R18 go on a tank of fuel for longer than 11 laps, so they decided to trade fuel efficiency in favour of speed and downforce. The Peugeot 908 can run 12 laps on the same tank"
"It appeared that while the Audi R18 couldn't run as far as the Peugeot on a tank of fuel, its tyres could last 4 stints, while the 908's could only last 3, a direct result of the low-drag design."
Translation: The Audi R18 would run 44 laps on a single set of tires, pitting for fuel every 11 laps and changing the tires every 4th pit stop.
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Padracer99
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chuyler1
Premium
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- chuyler1
No, they wouldn't. That's what I'm saying. Changing the tires adds 20 seconds to the pit stop. They would only change them every 4 pit stops...meaning a single set of tires would make it 40+ laps. That won't happen with the 2.02 tire model. On RH tires you'll barely make 10 laps.
If you want to talk about NASCAR, then yes, they change the tires every stop.
If you want to talk about NASCAR, then yes, they change the tires every stop.
- 9,765
- OrlandoFL GMT-5
- GTP__Jav
They can't change tires during refuling it's prohibited by the rules. So there goes your theory of realism out the window!
Padracer99
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- Status
