Real Guns

  • Thread starter Calibretto
  • 8,880 comments
  • 476,702 views
My only concern would be that these days, seems like many great names tend to produce some low priced entry line that doesn't quite meet the standard the manufacturer is known for. Like that entry Sig's Brett/Vash mentioned in the past. Sig handguns, but I think they were priced around $400? That's hundreds lower than the P226, right?

Maybe they live up to the manfacture name completely, I honestly have no idea. I'm just saying.
 
Oh, I have no idea either but the thing with FN unlike some other companies is they really only have 1 line. They replaced the FNP line with the FNX line, but with either line it was one design that covered 9mm, .40, and .45. There's the FiveSeven, but it's an entirely different beast. When you look at a company like Sig they have different model names and designs based on caliber, and like you said ones at different price points. I haven't seen a really negative impression of an FN, and it seems that the biggest reasons people don't choose them or have one then sell it is they move up to something like a high-end Sig, or find something that better fits them carry-wise or in feel.
 
Well, if they have just one main handgun line, that's gotta be a good sign. Like you noted, FN is a respected name. 👍
 
Believe it or not, some of the people Ive bought high-end sigs from suggested the FN line of pistols early on in a more recent purchase. FN is one of the best manufacturers in the world easily, its just the pistol line is relatively new. That said, you know they make some of the best stuff out there so give it a try if it feels good. I may still buy one in the future. 👍
 
So I, like, shot proper rifle for the first time this morning..... Again, a whole another ball game. Guns are interesting in how .22, handguns, shotguns, rifles, they are all different animals. I've only shot rimfire or SKS before in the rifle department, and was amazed at the accuracy of a .308. I feel like, with practice and right rifle + optics, I'd consistently be able to hit a small coin at 200 yards.

I couldn't take a lot of pictures, but I'll add them on later.

Edit:
0dscn0982.jpg

One on the left is 375 H&H Magnum. I thought it would have kicked harder, but it still does go 'kaboom' :lol:
0dscn0984.jpg

The target's at 200 yards, and I had never shot that far before.
0dscn0988.jpg

Gentleman on the left belongs to this gun club. He's one of the managers at where I work, and he let us in. This club is huge. It looks like a military compound, and you can't even get to the parking lot without the security gate. Many, many ranges inside, they even had indoor ranges and 24-hour ranges.
0dscn0991.jpg

I took only one shot with the scope(we were there for less than an hour), and this was it. I kept the target. :lol: Considering I had never shot at this kind of range before, and this was the only time I shot this rifle, I was surprised by how close I got(1.25").
0dscn0996.jpg

I forgot to ask the others to take my picture at the range, so I rushed to take this one. Can you tell the flash caught me off guard? I guess this is what my deer in the headlight look look like. :lol:
0dscn1003.jpg

My new Husqvarna hearing protector. Works great in terms of hearing protection & the actual fit to the head. Ear pads are sort of soft, so I doubt that they'll have exceptionally long life or anything, but I'm very happy with this purchase. I received it from Amazon just couple days prior, just in time to try it out right away. :D:tup:
dscn0986q.jpg

Although we visited just the 200~300 yard range, we got to look around just a bit, and I was very impressed. Cost is approximately $300 + you have to join the NRA. I'm thinking about joining sometime.
 
Last edited:
That. 375 is a beast! Looks like a fun time out there!
It was a quickie visit, but yes, I had a blast! That .375 sounds like a bazooka or something, I was afraid to shoot it. :lol:
Lookin good bro.
Lemme share you the secret: Look into the flash. Every :censored:ing time. :lol:
a6, if you're thinking of joining the NRA check this out.

http://www.shootingusa.com/LATEST_UPDATES/NRA_news/NRA_Membership/nra_membership.html

Nifty deal that gets you $10 off the membership cost. There might be other deals out there too.
I read that page a little bit, but that makes no sense to me. Is the guy an NRA official? How could anyone give everybody 10 bucks toward membership, you know what I mean? I'll definitely check it out though. Thanks man. 👍
 
Well, he technically doesn't give you $10. Normal NRA yearly membership is $35, and that's what you pay if you go straight through the NRA site. By going through that link it drops the yearly price to $25. It just sounds like they cut a deal with the NRA to try and bring in people who might be on the fence. The NRA gets advertisement on the Shooting USA group of shows and in turn they knock the $10 off to get people to sign up. I'll also throw in a plug for the shows, which are usually pretty good. They showcase some cool events and insight into different guns. It makes me want to get a real handgun (read: proper caliber, not .22) faster so I can check out some comps.
 
So that big wall is supposed to stop people from shooting someone in the next county?
 
Well, he technically doesn't give you $10. Normal NRA yearly membership is $35, and that's what you pay if you go straight through the NRA site. By going through that link it drops the yearly price to $25. It just sounds like they cut a deal with the NRA to try and bring in people who might be on the fence. The NRA gets advertisement on the Shooting USA group of shows and in turn they knock the $10 off to get people to sign up. I'll also throw in a plug for the shows, which are usually pretty good. They showcase some cool events and insight into different guns. It makes me want to get a real handgun (read: proper caliber, not .22) faster so I can check out some comps.
Yeah, I ended up looking into their membership fee structure. I'm not going to join just yet, but you are right, $10 off is a good deal. 👍

P.S. My coworker(real gun veteran) rolls his eyes over every time I say something like that about .22's. He's into powerful rounds as well(375 H&H's his), but I guess he likes his .22's. :lol:

Edit:
So that big wall is supposed to stop people from shooting someone in the next county?
Mainly tall people in Florida's my guess.
 
Last edited:
Oh, I wasn't saying anything is wrong with a .22, and I love mine. For IDPA/USPSA comps you need a self defense round, pretty much nothing lower than .380. You'd also look kinda silly running a shoot house with a .22 :lol:.
 
Oh, I wasn't saying anything is wrong with a .22, and I love mine. For IDPA/USPSA comps you need a self defense round, pretty much nothing lower than .380. You'd also look kinda silly running a shoot house with a .22 :lol:.

I have a High Standard Sentinel Mk IV revolver.
It is a .22 Magnum with a nine-round cylinder, 3" barrel and good sights. In my generation, it was the preferred sidearm when off duty in Saigon.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
There it is again! :lol:

*Tries to climb out of hole* What I *meant* to say is uh...the guns are odd looking, yea that's it, and uh they have low cap mags or something, and uh...crap. I'm not saying you couldn't do it, you'd just get some quizzical looks.

I have a High Standard Sentinel Mk IV revolver.
It is a .22 Magnum with a nine-round cylinder, 3" barrel and good sights. In my generation, it was the preferred sidearm when off duty in Saigon.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

There's a bit of a difference between .22LR and .22Mag. Anything could be used for SD in an emergency, but there's regulations concerning what guns can and can't be used in the different divisions for comps, and .38 is the smallest caliber allowed from what I've seen.
 
My coworker with the .375, one of his latest purchase was the .22 Magnum. I think he's shot it just once, when bunch of us went shooting last winter. I posted pics from that time, you know, the one with the Landrover stuck in the snow? We still give the driver of the Rover crap every chance we get. :lol:

I've been deciding on what my first proper rifle is going to be(because mine's a .22 :P). While my two strongest candidates has been AR15 & AK47, and all others other assault rifles, I gotta tell you, now I'm considering a bolt-action.

Those two I just went shooting with, they don't really care a whole lot for assault rifles. Their philosophy on rifles are all about accuracy. They've asked me in the past, why fire bunch of times when you can finish the job with just one shot. Before shooting at the 200 yard range, I was already starting to see merit in what they preach.

As couple of you know, I'm a complete Call of Duty(games) fanboy-junkie-tool. That is why my attraction to ACR, AR15 & AK is very strong. :P But in real life, you can't own a full-auto anyway, because it's more hassle than it's worth. And I'm now starting to sense that at 100+ yards, the accuracy between any assault rifles vs bolt action's almost night & day. From what I understand, AR15 is much more accurate than AK's, but I'm thinking the bullet loses a lot of effectiveness at distance compared to say .308 or 30-06. I just can't get over how accurate .308's & 30-06's were. It is so cool to shoot something where you can barely see the paper target far away, but you can't punch holes in it. :D

Ideally, I'd like to own Remington 700(R700 from CoD4 :embarrassed:), then a AK47, I think. Already have a .22LR, a handgun & a shotgun, so I'd pretty much have something for every occasion then. I would have to join a gun club to shoot any bolt action though. I don't have any place around here where I can shoot longer than up to maybe 100 yards.
 
They make an AR15 style rifle in .308. I believe its called an AR10.

Ruger has some pretty nice bolt action rifles from what I've seen.
 
You'd have to decide what discipline you'd rather shoot more. An AR platform is going to be more about multiple steel targets or maybe a tac range where you can do sort of simulated S.W.A.T style drills while that proper scoped rifle is going to be about accuracy, where you can learn how to deal with windage and bullet drop and such. The ideal situation, as you say, would be to have both so you can shoot whatever you feel like. Personally, I can't think of anything more gratifying than tagging something from as far away as you can, so I'd opt for the bolt-action first.
 
I have seen the AR in .308, but can't imagine AR-base being as accurate as like the Ruger you mentioned(.308 I shot was a Ruger), or other bolt actions. Besides, AR in .308 would be bit weird. Vausgoth I think said he had AR in a .308.

And Icarus, that is what I'm kind of feeling and leaning towards, too. 200 yard range was just cool. 👍 I've always been spraying & praying, in video games or airsofts(as a kid, back in Nihon). Right now, I'm starting to appreciate that one shot-one kill kind of shooting. It was a new experience, and I definitely got a kick out of it.

I still like both though, but bolt action is slightly ahead of this race, so bolt action, then an assault rifle thing is making sense to me. As long as I don't start hearing about assault rifle ban. :crazy: Actually, didn't Federal Government attempt one of those before?
 
I have seen the AR in .308, but can't imagine AR-base being as accurate as like the Ruger you mentioned(.308 I shot was a Ruger), or other bolt actions.

4196310537_f7c7feb35f.jpg


Knights Armament SR-25 semi automatic sniper rifle, AR style rifle in 7.62x51 (308), shoots approx half MOA groups all day long, thats half an inch at 100yds, already issued to some soldiers in A-Stan.
Accuracy that only the best bolt action rifles can reach, with modern tooling and super tight tolerances accuracy with semi automatic rifles is not an issue anymore. (reliability with rifles that have such tight tolerances is another story though)
 
4196310537_f7c7feb35f.jpg


Knights Armament SR-25 semi automatic sniper rifle, AR style rifle in 7.62x51 (308), shoots approx half MOA groups all day long, thats half an inch at 100yds, already issued to some soldiers in A-Stan.
Accuracy that only the best bolt action rifles can reach, with modern tooling and super tight tolerances accuracy with semi automatic rifles is not an issue anymore. (reliability with rifles that have such tight tolerances is another story though)
You answered my first question in the parentheses. :lol:👍

Half-an-inch from 100 yards is very impressive. How do you think it might do from 200 or 300? The gun is beautiful, not at all awkward. Has that plasticky ACR look to it, which I love.

Another question would be the reliability of bolt actions. I've been reading that bolt actions are pretty much as reliable as they come. But in order to achieve accuracy, do they also have tight tolerances that you have to clean them all the time?

Anyway, I also forgot about this rifle that I had written off, just because I wasn't feeling much love towards bolt action, or traditional rifle stock when I first saw this rifle:

gw1107gunsitepic1ks.jpg


I think it was called Ruger Gunsite Scout or something like that. I want to say that it was $700+ ish on the google search then. I'm interested in it again. It's Ruger, it's somewhat affordable(though I'll need a scope), it's bolt action, it has high cap magazine(for bolt action), it's beeeeeutiful, etc., etc.
 
Another question would be the reliability of bolt actions. I've been reading that bolt actions are pretty much as reliable as they come. But in order to achieve accuracy, do they also have tight tolerances that you have to clean them all the time?

The bolt action system is pretty much the most reliable rifle system in the world. The super-duper benchrest match rifles do have tight tolerances, but the usually never see dirt or battlefields so reliability doesn't really matter. The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare (AWM) rifle as example (which is issued to many special sniper units all around the world) has an ice-groove in the bolt, if the bolt is frozen shut the ice groove helps to break the ice when rotating the bolt. The groove also collects dirt, oil etc. and keeps the action clean.

Take a look at the older bolt action rifles, I'm sure you know the Mosin-Nagant 91/30? That was the main battle rifle of the Soviets in WW2 - Sloppy bolt, very loose tolerances so it could function in the Russian climate in snow, mud and ice.
Though the sniper variants of this rifle (just an ordinary rifle + scope and modified bolt handle) could archive MOA or one inch at 100yds and with the 3x magnification PU scope sharpshooters killed enemies out to 500yds.
With the right ammo pretty much all modern bolt actions are capable of MOA and even sub-moa accuracy, even a short barreled hunting rifle with a thin barrel, MOA is pretty much THE standard all modern bolt action rifles have to meet. If an off-shelf bolt action rifle doesn't shoot MOA its junk and should be returned to the dealer.
What makes the bolt action rifle so accurate? Its a very accurate design because it has very few moving parts, the receiver and bolt are very stiff, and most importantly its a simple design, there is not much that can negatively affect its accuracy .

Inaccuracy of semi-automatic rifles is mainly caused by the moving parts and complexity which negatively effects the harmony of the rifle when fired, another factor is the reloading system, with a gas piston you need a gas block on the barrel which also affects the barrels harmony when firing, the barrel is not free-floating anymore. Also, the reloading system - the gas notch bleeds of some gas to power the piston that operates the bolt, the piston starts to move before the projectile has completely left the barrel, the moving piston can also cause slight variation in point of impact. If something moves in the rifle it also moves the rifle itself.

And lets not forget the bolt, some rifles like the FN-FAL have a tilting bolt and not the tightest tolerances in the world, the bolt goes down in a notch and locks up, the upward pressure from a fully loaded magazine on the bolt can cause some variation in point of impact because it changes the angle of the bolt face and thus the angle of the cartridge in the chamber. Inconsistency, the biggest enemy of accuracy.

In a nutshell: a simple design is inherently more accurate, there are less factors that can negatively affect accuracy.

A single shot bolt action rifle is pretty much the most accurate system in the world, and thats why bench rest shooters use this system.

Anyway, I also forgot about this rifle that I had written off, just because I wasn't feeling much love towards bolt action, or traditional rifle stock when I first saw this rifle:
Don't write them off, bolt action rifles are awesome, they are built like tanks, extremely reliable and pretty much indestructible. In fact, my SHTF rifle is a bolt action rifle because a SHTF rifle must work under the worst conditions imaginable, can't do that with a semi.
 
Last edited:
Just getting into guns now. I have a Remington 1911R1 that's my carry gun, and I recently purchased a Mosin-Nagant M91/30. I think I may buy another one and keep one original, and put the other one in a modern stock and put a modern scope one it.
 
Funny part about mention of the fn fal is how fn now produces what is probably the best assault rifle you can buy- the FN SCAR (I will have one down the road but they are too expensive right now).

scar-h_all.jpg


.308 or .223
Carbine, standard or sniper sizes.
All the modern features... It's awesome!
 
Heh We gotta lotta people here who own AK's they Use it either Celebrity fire in weddings or Against criminals who break threw the house which is rare
 
No way, not in the Middle East. :P I bet you guys can buy the full-auto AK's, huh? I can't afford to fire 7.62x39mm at full auto, but I still want one regardless. :lol:

P.S. SCARs awesome, too. Again, from Call of Duty. :P

The bolt action system is pretty much the most reliable rifle system in the world. The super-duper benchrest match rifles do have tight tolerances, but the usually never see dirt or battlefields so reliability doesn't really matter. The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare (AWM) rifle as example (which is issued to many special sniper units all around the world) has an ice-groove in the bolt, if the bolt is frozen shut the ice groove helps to break the ice when rotating the bolt. The groove also collects dirt, oil etc. and keeps the action clean.

Take a look at the older bolt action rifles, I'm sure you know the Mosin-Nagant 91/30? That was the main battle rifle of the Soviets in WW2 - Sloppy bolt, very loose tolerances so it could function in the Russian climate in snow, mud and ice.
Though the sniper variants of this rifle (just an ordinary rifle + scope and modified bolt handle) could archive MOA or one inch at 100yds and with the 3x magnification PU scope sharpshooters killed enemies out to 500yds.
With the right ammo pretty much all modern bolt actions are capable of MOA and even sub-moa accuracy, even a short barreled hunting rifle with a thin barrel, MOA is pretty much THE standard all modern bolt action rifles have to meet. If an off-shelf bolt action rifle doesn't shoot MOA its junk and should be returned to the dealer.
What makes the bolt action rifle so accurate? Its a very accurate design because it has very few moving parts, the receiver and bolt are very stiff, and most importantly its a simple design, there is not much that can negatively affect its accuracy .

Inaccuracy of semi-automatic rifles is mainly caused by the moving parts and complexity which negatively effects the harmony of the rifle when fired, another factor is the reloading system, with a gas piston you need a gas block on the barrel which also affects the barrels harmony when firing, the barrel is not free-floating anymore. Also, the reloading system - the gas notch bleeds of some gas to power the piston that operates the bolt, the piston starts to move before the projectile has completely left the barrel, the moving piston can also cause slight variation in point of impact. If something moves in the rifle it also moves the rifle itself.

And lets not forget the bolt, some rifles like the FN-FAL have a tilting bolt and not the tightest tolerances in the world, the bolt goes down in a notch and locks up, the upward pressure from a fully loaded magazine on the bolt can cause some variation in point of impact because it changes the angle of the bolt face and thus the angle of the cartridge in the chamber. Inconsistency, the biggest enemy of accuracy.

In a nutshell: a simple design is inherently more accurate, there are less factors that can negatively affect accuracy.

A single shot bolt action rifle is pretty much the most accurate system in the world, and thats why bench rest shooters use this system.
Buddy, thank you so much for such detailed, informative post. I didn't even know what MOA was before, so this was very educational for me. 👍
Don't write them off, bolt action rifles are awesome, they are built like tanks, extremely reliable and pretty much indestructible. In fact, my SHTF rifle is a bolt action rifle because a SHTF rifle must work under the worst conditions imaginable, can't do that with a semi.
Which rifle is this "go-to" rifle of yours?

After shooting at the 200 yard range just last weekend, purchase of the bolt action has become about not if, but when. I really wanted AK or AR15, and I still do, but once you start buying into the idea that you just need one bullet to connect to the target, less important assault rifle becomes. I still can't get over how accurate this complete noob was with scope at such distance.

As I posted earlier, my main concern about my upcoming rifle purchase is the assault rifle ban. I read that last ten year ban ran from 1994 to 2004, and since I don't read or hear anything about any upcoming proposals, I don't think the chances of another one taking place is a very good one. But of course, you just never know with the politicians, you know what I mean? :D If I was positive that there won't be any type of assault rifle restrictions or regulations, I'm pretty sure that bolt action would be my next purchase. I'd worry about the AK or AR later.

Edit:

Just getting into guns now. I have a Remington 1911R1 that's my carry gun, and I recently purchased a Mosin-Nagant M91/30. I think I may buy another one and keep one original, and put the other one in a modern stock and put a modern scope one it.
I just looked up, but I didn't now Remington made 1911's. I like these better than those fancy $2,000 one's. To me, 1911's not about gold trims, or accuracy. Just reliable throwback classic. I'd never own one, but if I did, I'd want it all gun metal gray, probably.
 
@Kent : In my opinion, I'd say go for the Bushmaster ACR. I'm hoping to pick one up in the near future, after realizing that it's basically a fraction of what the SCAR costs. They're almost the same with ambidextrous charging handles, controls, adjustable cheek rests and folding stocks, and they both take standard AR mags. One of the main things that caught my attention about the ACR is that you have interchangeable barrels that you can swap out without any tools. Yes, the SCAR does fire a much heavier round, but I'm guessing(hoping) they'll release more options in the near future. But, I have heard mixed reviews about both guns, so I'd say go with whatever you feel is more comfortable... Just an opinion or suggestion. :)
 
Buddy, thank you so much for such detailed, informative post. I didn't even know what MOA was before, so this was very educational for me.
You're welcome! :)
Which rifle is this "go-to" rifle of yours?

I am hesitant when it comes to talking about my personal arsenal openly in the Internet, all I can say is that my SHTF rifle is a bolt action rifle chambered in .308 from a reknowned manufacturer. Upgraded it from a 4 shot to a 10 shot detachable magazine, 24'' thin hunting barrel, open sights, nothing exciting. Simple, easy to operate and rugged, it works like a charm, never had a rifle that fit me so well.

As for sights it has simple open sights (for backup) and a low-power Leupold VX-II 2-7x33 scope. Why a *low-powered* scope you might ask? Well, a high powered scope like an 8-20x44 (min magnification 8x, max 20x, 44mm lens) is great for shooting small targets at 500-800 yds, but it has a small field of view due the high magnification (simply overpowered) and thus very limited use at close ranges (50yds and or less), its also big and heavy. And it simply sucks to shoot standing without support with a high magnification scope, you'll shake like an old woman, with 2x magnification you'll hardly notice your heartbeat and your shaky arms.

A 2-7x33 scope is very compact and lightweight, with 2x min magnification I can quickly engage targets at 20yds and with 7x magnification I can also hit targets at 300-400yds, its the best allround scope power - in a SHTF scenario you never know what distances you'll have to shoot.

I use Leupold QWR scope mount rings, the rings have levers, in case the scope gets damaged I can take it off in seconds without any tools and continue shooting with the open sights. I can also re-install it without having to sight it in again. (well, very minor adjustments will be required)

On the stock I installed a stock pouch, thats a small pouch that holds 15 rounds spare ammunition, also added a little screw driver in case I have to disassemble the rifle, a bore snake, a small bottle of oil and spare small parts like a firing pin and extractor - parts that can eventually break after hard use. (unlikely but being prepared doesn't hurt)
 
I am hesitant when it comes to talking about my personal arsenal openly in the Internet, all I can say is that my SHTF rifle is a bolt action rifle chambered in .308 from a reknowned manufacturer. Upgraded it from a 4 shot to a 10 shot detachable magazine, 24'' thin hunting barrel, open sights, nothing exciting. Simple, easy to operate and rugged, it works like a charm, never had a rifle that fit me so well.
How involved is the modification to make it work with a detachable magazine? Sounds cool, and it totally make sense, but sort of scary at the same time. :D I want a scope on the rifle, but am thinking open sights is a must, if only as a back up.

As for sights it has simple open sights (for backup) and a low-power Leupold VX-II 2-7x33 scope. Why a *low-powered* scope you might ask? Well, a high powered scope like an 8-20x44 (min magnification 8x, max 20x, 44mm lens) is great for shooting small targets at 500-800 yds, but it has a small field of view due the high magnification (simply overpowered) and thus very limited use at close ranges (50yds and or less), its also big and heavy. And it simply sucks to shoot standing without support with a high magnification scope, you'll shake like an old woman, with 2x magnification you'll hardly notice your heartbeat and your shaky arms.

A 2-7x33 scope is very compact and lightweight, with 2x min magnification I can quickly engage targets at 20yds and with 7x magnification I can also hit targets at 300-400yds, its the best allround scope power - in a SHTF scenario you never know what distances you'll have to shoot.

I use Leupold QWR scope mount rings, the rings have levers, in case the scope gets damaged I can take it off in seconds without any tools and continue shooting with the open sights. I can also re-install it without having to sight it in again. (well, very minor adjustments will be required)
............ interesting. I was researching scopes on Amazon the other day, and noticed that many I checked out were 3~9x. 2x does sound perfect for shorter engagements, but do you think 3x is bit much? Your philosophy on 2~7x does make perfect sense to me. I just might end up copying that. :D

Mount rings with lever release sounds useful, but in movies, I've seen people just slide the scope on. Is that a practical option, or works only in the movies?

I was talking about that Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle with my coworker, and he says that with a raised scope mount, you'd be able to opt to use either the iron sights, or the scope. That also sounded like a good idea. He thinks he's getting this Scout rifle, and another guy at my work is also interested, and now I'm kind of buying into the idea as well. I intend to do little more research on how accurate the rifle is at range past 200 yards, and I'm also kind of wishing they would have stock available with other finish by the time I'd have the funds to buy the rifle, which would be first half of next year.
 

Latest Posts

Back