Real Guns

[Michael88]

How involved is the modification to make it work with a detachable magazine? .

Totally depends on the rifle, with my rifle I didn't even have to buy aftermarket parts, the manufacturer offers high-capazity mags for some extra bucks.

............ interesting. I was researching scopes on Amazon the other day, and noticed that many I checked out were 3~9x. 2x does sound perfect for shorter engagements, but do you think 3x is bit much? Your philosophy on 2~7x does make perfect sense to me. I just might end up copying that.

You might also want to check out the so-called ''battle sights'', scopes with 1x-4x magnification, 1x magnification (no magn. at all) is of course the best you can have at close quarter engagments but 4x max magnification is not enough for me - 200yds is stil possible though. Another downside with battle sights is they have small lenses (typically 20-22mm) so they don't gather much light and are had to use in low light conditions (very overcast weather, dawn)
Scope choice depends on where you live. Urban environment where shooting distances are typically under 100yds? 1-4. Rural area? 2-7x33. I wouldn't go with a 3-9x40 because the small difference between 2x and 3x is quite noticeable, 3x would be too much for me as minimum magnification for close range. 1x magnification is ideal for close quarter shooting, 2x is not so good but still works, 3x is too much.

For me, 2-7 is ideal, I have two 2-7x33 scopes and I'm super happy with them, I also love how bright the scope is, even an hour after sundown the scope is still useable with 2x magnification, - can't even see the open sights anymore with so little light left.

Edit: If you have the money you could also buy a high power scope for long ranges and a piggyback-mount for a docter-sight (red-dot), then you can shoot long and very short distances. But keep in mind that the docter sight is installed at a very exposed position and it doesn't take much to damage it. Not ideal for a go-to rifle that must withstand hard use.

Mount rings with lever release sounds useful, but in movies, I've seen people just slide the scope on. Is that a practical option, or works only in the movies?

I know there are a some quick detachable mounts, mainly used on hunting rifles, but they're veeeery expensive. You can have the same with a picatinny rail and lever rings. (THE mounting system of the 21st century, its a military standard)

I was talking about that Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle with my coworker, and he says that with a raised scope mount, you'd be able to opt to use either the iron sights, or the scope. That also sounded like a good idea. He thinks he's getting this Scout rifle, and another guy at my work is also interested

Four of my friends have the Ruger Scout and are very happy with it, accurate, small and good quality. The iron sights (ghost-ring) are excellent. I haven't shot one yet but my gunshop had one and I took a close look, nice little rifle, though I'm not a fan of the forward-mounted scout-type scope, I find the normal scopes MUCH better and I prefer synthetic stocks.

 

[a6m5]

You might also want to check out the so-called ''battle sights'', scopes with 1x-4x magnification, 1x magnification (no magn. at all) is of course the best you can have at close quarter engagments but 4x max magnification is not enough for me - 200yds is stil possible though. Another downside with battle sights is they have small lenses (typically 20-22mm) so they don't gather much light and are had to use in low light conditions (very overcast weather, dawn)
Scope choice depends on where you live. Urban environment where shooting distances are typically under 100yds? 1-4. Rural area? 2-7x33. I wouldn't go with a 3-9x40 because the small difference between 2x and 3x is quite noticeable, 3x would be too much for me as minimum magnification for close range. 1x magnification is ideal for close quarter shooting, 2x is not so good but still works, 3x is too much.

For me, 2-7 is ideal, I have two 2-7x33 scopes and I'm super happy with them, I also love how bright the scope is, even an hour after sundown the scope is still useable with 2x magnification, - can't even see the open sights anymore with so little light left.

God, 1~4 sounds badass on an assault rifle. I agree that 2~7 sounds more suited for bolt action rifle, and still keeping it ideal for shorter range engagements. Another thing I have to study and learn!

Edit: If you have the money you could also buy a high power scope for long ranges and a piggyback-mount for a docter-sight (red-dot), then you can shoot long and very short distances. But keep in mind that the docter sight is installed at a very exposed position and it doesn't take much to damage it. Not ideal for a go-to rifle that must withstand hard use.

That is very cool, but, yeah, it's gonna be out of my price range. But I don't think I want it anyways, for one, I want to avoid electronics on firearms as much as possible. Two, like you said about the susceptibility to damage. If the gun was strictly a toy, and I had access to suitable playground, I'd have definitely considered it.

I know there are a some quick detachable mounts, mainly used on hunting rifles, but they're veeeery expensive. You can have the same with a picatinny rail and lever rings. (THE mounting system of the 21st century, its a military standard)

Gotcha. I think I'll search for vids on lever release one's on youtube. I've never truly appreciated youtube until I started looking for gun videos. How to clean them, how to take them apart, those videos are godsend.

Four of my friends have the Ruger Scout and are very happy with it, accurate, small and good quality. The iron sights (ghost-ring) are excellent. I haven't shot one yet but my gunshop had one and I took a close look, nice little rifle, though I'm not a fan of the forward-mounted scout-type scope, I find the normal scopes MUCH better and I prefer synthetic stocks.

Any guesses to what their maximum range might be like? Coworker who wants to get one read that, even with a shorter barrel, Scout has pretty long range.

It's good to hear about the nice ghost ring sights, but I agree on the scope mount. It looks awkward.

 

[Michael88]

Any guesses to what their maximum range might be like? Coworker who wants to get one read that, even with a shorter barrel, Scout has pretty long range.

Well, if the rifle holds MOA with an 18'' barrel and the right load you can theoretically reach out and touch something really hard at up to 1000yds. 1000yds because the .308 out of an 18'' barrel will go from about 2700 fp/s at the muzzle (168 grain 308) to subsonic velocity at around 1000-1100yds. If a supersonic projectile goes subsonic it gets very inaccurate and lose its stability. It also starts to drop like a rock past 600yds
I said ''theoretically'' because of two points:

Point one: 99% of shooters aren't a good enough shot to fully use the theoretical potential of their rifles, for ranges like 400yd+ you need practice, lots of it, let alone 1000yds.
You must be able to read the wind, know the holdover, need to adjust the scope accordingly, have a very accurate load.....

Point two: the scout with a 2-7 or 1-4 scope is definitely not meant to be a precision rifle, if you want to shoot 500 or even 1000yds you need a different kind of rifle with a different scope, a different barrel and there are also hot cartridges that do a way better job than the 308 at long range shooting, especially when there's wind involved. (300WM, .338LM etc) The 300 Winchester Magnum for example, at 400yds it has still the velocity from a .308 at the muzzle, and that with a heavier bullet that retains the velocity a lot better and thus bucks the wind much better. Keep that in mind.


I don't know how skilled you are with rifle, but you've mentioned you hit targets at 200yds, if you shoot decent ammo, have a good quality scope and mounts installed and you practice with your rifle you'll be able to hit stuff at 400yds. Don't know if you can do it with a 2-7 though, you'll probably need more magnification, ideally something like 14x.

But I don't think I want it anyways, for one, I want to avoid electronics on firearms as much as possible.

Same here, I'm not really into those electronic gadgets, just personal preference. There are very tough and well working electronic optics on the market, but I like to keep my weapons plain simple.

 

[a6m5]

Well, if the rifle holds MOA with an 18'' barrel and the right load you can theoretically reach out and touch something really hard at up to 1000yds. 1000yds because the .308 out of an 18'' barrel will go from about 2700 fp/s at the muzzle (168 grain 308) to subsonic velocity at around 1000-1100yds. If a supersonic projectile goes subsonic it gets very inaccurate and lose its stability. It also starts to drop like a rock past 600yds
I said ''theoretically'' because of two points:

Point one: 99% of shooters aren't a good enough shot to fully use the theoretical potential of their rifles, for ranges like 400yd+ you need practice, lots of it, let alone 1000yds.
You must be able to read the wind, know the holdover, need to adjust the scope accordingly, have a very accurate load.....

Point two: the scout with a 2-7 or 1-4 scope is definitely not meant to be a precision rifle, if you want to shoot 500 or even 1000yds you need a different kind of rifle with a different scope, a different barrel and there are also hot cartridges that do a way better job than the 308 at long range shooting, especially when there's wind involved. (300WM, .338LM etc) The 300 Winchester Magnum for example, at 400yds it has still the velocity from a .308 at the muzzle, and that with a heavier bullet that retains the velocity a lot better and thus bucks the wind much better. Keep that in mind.


I don't know how skilled you are with rifle, but you've mentioned you hit targets at 200yds, if you shoot decent ammo, have a good quality scope and mounts installed and you practice with your rifle you'll be able to hit stuff at 400yds. Don't know if you can do it with a 2-7 though, you'll probably need more magnification, ideally something like 14x.

I'm a complete noob at rifles, and not really experienced in any types firearms really. But yeah, after shooting some at 200 yards, I got the impression that I wouldn't have much problem reaching out further. Still, I'm thinking that best case scenario, with bunch of practice, I'll get to 300~400 yards. 1,000 yards, I'm not even dreaming that far.

At 200, I didn't have to make any adjustments, but it was somewhat controlled environment, no rain, no sun, no wind. Are adjustments sometime necessary to shoot up to 200? 100, I assume you just aim & shoot. 200, if you are trying to shooting inside MOA, maybe it's not as simple?

Same here, I'm not really into those electronic gadgets, just personal preference. There are very tough and well working electronic optics on the market, but I like to keep my weapons plain simple.

And durable. Something failing on a firearm could lead to life & death.

I'm sure that quality brands like Eotech, etc. are plenty reliable. I think I'm just little paranoid after my experiences with the cheap made in China electronics. Besides, it's probably not a good idea to get too used to, and start relying on something that requires batteries on your guns. Especially in SHTF situation.

 

[Michael88]

At 200, I didn't have to make any adjustments, but it was somewhat controlled environment, no rain, no sun, no wind. Are adjustments sometime necessary to shoot up to 200? 100, I assume you just aim & shoot. 200, if you are trying to shooting inside MOA, maybe it's not as simple?

Its not that easy, the air resistance will dramatically decelerate the projectile at longer ranges, thats physics. It will slow down the projectile, and due to the gravity the projectile drops like any other object. According to my calculations it takes the 308 168 grain @ 2700 half a second to reach the 400yd target and it drops 47 inches on its way, 47 inches is a lot to compensate without scope adjustments, that guessing stuff and guessing is never really consistent. You can shoot 200yds without adjusting but at 300 you'll start needing to do adjustments with the 308.
To have consistent holdover at this range you need to adjust your scope and compensate for the bullet drop. And there is the wind, if you have a constant 10mph wind blowing from left from 90 degrees the projectile will drift 12 inches to the left at 400. See? If you want to hit a small target at this distance and you do not adjust your scope you'd have to compensate so much the crosshair wouldn't even be on the target! It would be somewhere high right. And now imagine 1000yds.

Shooting at long distances is like throwing an american football at really long distances. Just a lot faster and at much longer distances.

On top of that, 400yds is not just four times 100yds, you'll get less accurate because of the distance, the reticle will cover a lot of the target and it will be much harder to keep it in the center. Ground-heat is also a problem, mirage will affect your scope image, wind blowing from different directions, every heartbeat will move the reticle quite a bit, etc etc.. You wont be able to hold MOA, sure, the rifle could shoot 4'' groups at those distances but not the shooter.

But don't worry about all that physic stuff, the Ruger Gunsite scout is a quick scout rifle, first of all you should practice 100yds and most importantly quick accurate unsupported shots from many different positions- . Shooting quick shots from prone position is so much fun, and in real life you don't have shooting benches standing around.
If you really want to prepare yourself for a SHTF scenario ( ) learn how to do quick unsupported shot at 50, kneeling at 100 and prone at 200. Benchrest shooting gets boring really quickly, it makes you soft and spoils you.

 

[a6m5]

Its not that easy, the air resistance will dramatically decelerate the projectile at longer ranges, thats physics. It will slow down the projectile, and due to the gravity the projectile drops like any other object. According to my calculations it takes the 308 168 grain @ 2700 half a second to reach the 400yd target and it drops 47 inches on its way, 47 inches is a lot to compensate without scope adjustments, that guessing stuff and guessing is never really consistent. You can shoot 200yds without adjusting but at 300 you'll start needing to do adjustments with the 308.
To have consistent holdover at this range you need to adjust your scope and compensate for the bullet drop. And there is the wind, if you have a constant 10mph wind blowing from left from 90 degrees the projectile will drift 12 inches to the left at 400. See? If you want to hit a small target at this distance and you do not adjust your scope you'd have to compensate so much the crosshair wouldn't even be on the target! It would be somewhere high right. And now imagine 1000yds.

Shooting at long distances is like throwing an american football at really long distances. Just a lot faster and at much longer distances.

On top of that, 400yds is not just four times 100yds, you'll get less accurate because of the distance, the reticle will cover a lot of the target and it will be much harder to keep it in the center. Ground-heat is also a problem, mirage will affect your scope image, wind blowing from different directions, every heartbeat will move the reticle quite a bit, etc etc.. You wont be able to hold MOA, sure, the rifle could shoot 4'' groups at those distances but not the shooter.

But don't worry about all that physic stuff, the Ruger Gunsite scout is a quick scout rifle, first of all you should practice 100yds and most importantly quick accurate unsupported shots from many different positions- . Shooting quick shots from prone position is so much fun, and in real life you don't have shooting benches standing around.
If you really want to prepare yourself for a SHTF scenario ( ) learn how to do quick unsupported shot at 50, kneeling at 100 and prone at 200. Benchrest shooting gets boring really quickly, it makes you soft and spoils you.

That last part, that is where I butt heads with my shooting buddies. I consider that gun is as much tool or weapon, as much as it is a toy, collectible, or sporting goods. Target shooting, blowing stuff up is fine & dandy, but I think everybody should also work on tactical firing. To my buddies, that's silly and dangerous.

Face it, SHTF is something I'll never see in Oregon. People here are more grounded compared to say New Orleans or L.A., and we never see any types of epic disasters. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll never need to know how to maximize the potential of your firearm as a weapon.

I did enjoy benchrest shooting, but way I saw it, I thought it would teach me a lot about the important basics like forms, aiming, etc., but it also leaves a lot of things out. So I'm totally with you on the danger on settling with the range shooting.

On distances, I honestly never thought there would be that much involved in shooting up to 400 yards. But when I was shooting at 200, I never realized how far it was either. I used to run 200m on track, and it was over so quick(I guess I was pretty fast ). I can't remember how 200 meters calculated to yards, but I remember it being somewhat close.

Anyway, if I could become a consistent shooter up to 200, I would be very happy. Which reminds me, on Amazon, they had this Nikon scope that has aim points compensating for bullet drop:

And when I saw this, I was thinking about my shot from earlier:

Had I compensated for the drop, would it have hit closer to the bullseye? Maybe?

Finally, I was concerned about the range of the Gunsite Scout, because I was thinking that this rifle could be my bolt action & an assault rifle. Instead of trying to buy two rifles over next 2, 3 years, kill two birds with one stone. This idea is starting to make more & more sense to me.....

 

[Michael88]

And when I saw this, I was thinking about my shot from earlier:

A ballistic reticle is an excellent idea, though I don't know what cartridge its made for. 308? .223? They have very different ballistics! ´

That last part, that is where I butt heads with my shooting buddies. I consider that gun is as much tool or weapon, as much as it is a toy, collectible, or sporting goods. Target shooting, blowing stuff up is fine & dandy, but I think everybody should also work on tactical firing. To my buddies, that's silly and dangerous.

Yeah, same here, on my shooting range its all benchrest shooting, everything else is considered ''exotic'', fortunately I'm a very good shot (f I might say so myself) so they know that I'm not a crazy and they keep their opinions to themselves. Heh, not that I would care about what they have to say anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I like benchrest shooting but I only do it to sight my rifles in and to check the accuracy with various ammo brands.(And when I'm ill and not feeling so well ) I much prefer dynamic shooting, especially prone, you'll notice small errors like wrong breathing and stance techniques much better when you're standing on your hind legs without support or kneeling, shooting from the bench is very easy and teaches you very little. Its also more rewarding to hit something without any support, just you and your rifle.

Face it, SHTF is something I'll never see in Oregon. People here are more grounded compared to say New Orleans or L.A., and we never see any types of epic disasters. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll never need to know how to maximize the potential of your firearm as a weapon.

I agree. I live pretty much in the center of Europe, a SHTF scenario is extremely unlikely around here especially one caused by natural disasters, but when you take a look into the history books you'll quickly notice that security and order is more fragile than we think or like to admit, most highly advanced civilizations quickly went belly up in their heights.
I'm sure people back then felt totally secure and were totally caught off-guard by the sudden downfall of security, order and the ensuing chaos. I don't think humanity has changed / improved so much since then that we don't have to worry about ''setbacks'' anymore.
Also, some disasters can happen no matter where you are and who you are, pandemics can happen any time, in fact, with the increase of technology the danger has increased too. We have many modified and engineered germs and viruses in labors and medical facilities which could wreak incredible havoc if released.

But now I sound like a doom-sayer crazy, which I'm not.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Set your scope (when you get one) for 100 yards (I use 200y) and NEVER touch it. Buy a multi-reticle scope. Like mine...

 

[Michael88]

Set your scope (when you get one) for 100 yards (I use 200y) and NEVER touch it. Buy a multi-reticle scope. Like mine...

Oh yeah, the (in)famous Horus reticle. Looks more like a Christmas tree to me.
If you can use it its definitely great, for me however its waaay to busy and hurts my fast target acquisition, it takes me quite some to find where the actual crosshair is.

Horus also offers scopes with this one:

For long range stuff for my 300 winchester Magnum I have my Meopta R1 tactical 4-16x44 installed, with the ordinary mild-dot system which I really like. (With mildots you can accurately estimate the range to the target via a simple formula and you can use the dots for holdover and windage)

My Meopta:

 

[Solid Lifters]

I hate using mil-dot system. That's why I went with Horus H25 reticle setup. I shoot great with it.

 

[a6m5]

A ballistic reticle is an excellent idea, though I don't know what cartridge its made for. 308? .223? They have very different ballistics! ´

Good thing I'm learning this now instead of later. So obvious, but I never thought about it.

But now I sound like a doom-sayer crazy, which I'm not.

I wouldn't say that. Not at all. In fact, I'm all into the "survival" stuff, but it's more of fascination with the world of survival. Techniques, methods, gears, Discovery Channel TV shows, I find them intriguing. Ironic, as I could not live without the smallest of conveniences we enjoy today from cell phones to 7-Elevens.

Anyway, having grown up in Japan, the natural disaster magnet, I'm all too familiar with the importance of preparedness. It's the people who doesn't prepare that worries me. Many I know with family, kids & pets, they are not at all prepared. Again, we never see anything in our State, so people lax.

P.S. I've been wanting to make a survival or tactical thread in this forum. Perhaps it's time?

Set your scope (when you get one) for 100 yards (I use 200y) and NEVER touch it. Buy a multi-reticle scope. Like mine...

Damn, like Michael said, it is busy. I think I like the Nikon I posted best so far, but I do see the merit with this style though, as it will leave less room for guesstimation. H37? No.

 

[Michael88]

P.S. I've been wanting to make a survival or tactical thread in this forum. Perhaps it's time?

Go ahead, do it! I know a thing or two about survival tactics (ok, a lot), and have lots of gear to talk about, and questions too. I'm sure it would make a great educational topic with a very interesting conversation!

H37? No

Yeah, helmet-fire guaranteed.

Oh, by the way, a nice review of the Ruger Gunsite Scout: 👍
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhOnOFEH6ps&feature=feedu

 

[a6m5]

Solid Lifters: How into are you with rifles? Do you prefer assault rifles, or hunting/sniper type rifles? Finally, where do you shoot? Drive out to the country, or shooting range?

Go ahead, do it! I know a thing or two about survival tactics (ok, a lot), and have lots of gear to talk about, and questions too. I'm sure it would make a great educational topic with a very interesting conversation!

Only reason why I haven't done so already was I wanted to see a Survival thread, but also with discussion about guns & tactical stuff in it as well. I'll figure something out..... or just wing it.

Oh, by the way, a nice review of the Ruger Gunsite Scout: 👍
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhOnOFEH6ps&feature=feedu

That old dude is everywhere on youtube! 👍

That is a good video, but I was kicking myself for missing another huge feature of this gun. The very item we had already discussed. 👎 We talked about mounting the scope in the front, but it wasn't until I watched the video I started going "how do you even look into the scope?", and remembered that it's designed so you can look through the scope using both eyes. This can't be great when you are shooting at longer range. Another concern is will I be able to see through any scope when they are mounted that far away, or will I have to look for scope with larger diameter? It confuses me a little.

 

[Michael88]

And now the reason why I don't like scout rifles:

Scout style rifles with forward-mounted scope rails need special scopes, you cannot install a regular scope on it and shoot it.- Those scopes are called ''scout-'' or ''LER-scope'', LER for ''long eye relief''.

With each scope you have a specific distance between eye and lens, most normal scopes have about 5''. If the distance between eye and lens is too great or too low you cannot see ****. For a scout rifle you need a scope with a long eye relief because its mounted in front of the receiver, not on top of it.
Bad thing is there aren't many scout scopes out there, also there is very little variation in magnification, reticle etc.
The idea with a forward mounted scope is you have a faster target acquisition, though in my humble opinion you can be as fast as it gets with a regular scope if the magnification is low. Scout scopes have many disadvantages, making adjustments isn't easy, the field of view is small etc etc. Some people like it, I sure as hell don't.

But I have good news for you, there are two ways to mount a standart scope on the rifle:
1: There are mounting notches on the receiver for standard scope rings, bad thing is you have to completely take off the rear sight, so no open sights while you're using a scope. If you want to use it you have to re-install it and you have to sight it in again.

2: You can get a long picatinny rail that goes all the way back to the rear sight, so you can mount a standard scope and you can still use the rear sight (if you take off the scope)

Looks like this:

That old dude is everywhere on youtube!

Hickock45 is a legend! 👍

 

[a6m5]

Really, many things that are so cool with this rifle, and just as many that makes you question it. Oh, well. I guess when it comes to almost any purchases, narrowing down the choices is part of the fun.

If the Scout had standard scope mount + iron sights, it just might have been perfect for me...... long picatinny rails, huh?

 

[Solid Lifters]

Solid Lifters: How into are you with rifles? Do you prefer assault rifles, or hunting/sniper type rifles? Finally, where do you shoot? Drive out to the country, or shooting range?

I'm into rifles a lot. I do a lot of precision rifle shooting with my custom made rifle. I've posted many pics of it, some of which have ended up on a lot of shooting websites. I even got asked by a few rifle builders, whose parts I've used, to allow them to post a picture of my rifle on their website.

For prefernce, I like my bolt action rifles. I like AR15 styled semis but I hate the recoil 'bounce' or shake they have. But I plan to make a semi-auto precision rifle at sometime in my life, I hope.

I shoot at several places. Lytle Creek, mostly. Check it out with Google Earth. Desert is wide open for shooting, too. Indoor shooting is done at a few places, too. Magnum Range in Ontario, mostly.

 

[a6m5]

Do you have to drive quite a bit to go shooting outdoors? I love doing little shooting in the woods, but man, getting everybody on board, then driving out there is bit of hassle. Sometimes, I wish I lived in the country, so I could just shoot near the house or something!

Desert shooting sounds cool. I guess plenty of room there, and plenty of desert in the region.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Do you have to drive quite a bit to go shooting outdoors? I love doing little shooting in the woods, but man, getting everybody on board, then driving out there is bit of hassle. Sometimes, I wish I lived in the country, so I could just shoot near the house or something!

Desert shooting sounds cool. I guess plenty of room there, and plenty of desert in the region.

It's a 17 mile drive up there, which isn't bad. There are other places of equal distance, now that two of my usual places have been closed by liberal run cities.

 

[a6m5]

It's a 17 mile drive up there, which isn't bad. There are other places of equal distance, now that two of my usual places have been closed by liberal run cities.

Similar things are being reported here, and that's what makes me nervous. The Government in my area is about freedom, leniency on whatever that happens to agree with them. If they don't see merit, they will work to regulate you out of business. More & more, I notice them taking political sides than protecting rights, which should be their 🤬 job.

This "Occupation" whatever city is the perfect example. When it comes to something like shooting, which is not an privilege, but a right in this country, they do everything they can to chip away at your rights. City of Portland here, very good friend to "Occupation Portland" who breaks every law & regulation that gets in their way, I know that they want to prohibit handguns. Typical taking the guns away from law abiding people like us, and give the criminals exclusive rights to protect their criminal interests. It's like they want you to rape, rob, murder, but do not want us protecting ourselves..... Actually, as I just typed that, I think I just realized what their actual objective is. They want to ban firearms in this country. I mean these politicians, they can't really be so stupid that they actually believe that taking guns away from the law abiding is going to make the City safer. This must be about the bigger picture................. or I guess they really could be that foolish, and this is just about job security.

Yeah, I might have derailed here a bit.

Edit: Great 4-part video on the Scout Rifle. They comment on the barrel, scope mount, philosophy behind the design, etc. It even features Ruger engineer on the barrel & accuracy. 👍

 

[sniper338]

Similar things are being reported here, and that's what makes me nervous. The Government in my area is about freedom, leniency on whatever that happens to agree with them. If they don't see merit, they will work to regulate you out of business. More & more, I notice them taking political sides than protecting rights, which should be their 🤬 job.

This "Occupation" whatever city is the perfect example. When it comes to something like shooting, which is not an privilege, but a right in this country, they do everything they can to chip away at your rights. City of Portland here, very good friend to "Occupation Portland" who breaks every law & regulation that gets in their way, I know that they want to prohibit handguns. Typical taking the guns away from law abiding people like us, and give the criminals exclusive rights to protect their criminal interests. It's like they want you to rape, rob, murder, but do not want us protecting ourselves..... Actually, as I just typed that, I think I just realized what their actual objective is. They want to ban firearms in this country. I mean these politicians, they can't really be so stupid that they actually believe that taking guns away from the law abiding is going to make the City safer. This must be about the bigger picture................. or I guess they really could be that foolish, and this is just about job security.

We have had many areas closed down for shooting here too, but it is because lazy people take their tvs and other trash to shoot and then leave the mess. It's not from the anti gun people here but lazy people who can't clean up after themselves.

 

[a6m5]

We have had many areas closed down for shooting here too, but it is because lazy people take their tvs and other trash to shoot and then leave the mess. It's not from the anti gun people here but lazy people who can't clean up after themselves.

That is definitely true. Same thing can be seen here as well, and I think it might be safe to say that closures doesn't always automatically equal politics.

 

[Michael88]

We have had many areas closed down for shooting here too, but it is because lazy people take their tvs and other trash to shoot and then leave the mess. It's not from the anti gun people here but lazy people who can't clean up after themselves.

Well in my opinion thats the fault of the range administration, here we always have two range officers that always keep an eye out for range hooligans and idiots that can't behave, especially range guests and newbs.
Something like trash left behind etc can't happen here.

And because nobody wants to be a range officer its a role every trusted member of the range has to play once per year, including me. Also, all members of the range help to repair rebuild the range once per year.

This system works pretty well.

Oh, and because this is a real gun thread I want you to show you my Christmas present, I MUST have this rifle!
I've always liked lever action rifles, especially the 1886 action, this rifle is such a beauty and its also chambered in .45-70.

 

[a6m5]

Michael, he was referring to shooting on public land. Basically, State owned country property we are free to shoot on. While most of us are responsible and clean up after ourselves, I do encounter spots were it almost looks like there are more spent shells on the ground than rocks & pebbles.

P.S. Not a fan of lever action, but yeah, that one is gorgeous. 👍

 

[Solid Lifters]

Not 'cleaning up' is an excuse the politicians use to take the land away from shooters. I've been involved with clean-up crews that clean these areas and they still use it as an excuse.

 

[a6m5]

Well, I'm sure it's worse in California than just about anywhere else in the U.S.

P.S. I finished the survival thread I brought up earlier. Hope you guys check it out!

 

[Michael88]

Michael, he was referring to shooting on public land. Basically, State owned country property we are free to shoot on. While most of us are responsible and clean up after ourselves, I do encounter spots were it almost looks like there are more spent shells on the ground than rocks & pebbles.

Oh, didn't know such a thing existed, shooting on public land is forbidden around here - when you're not a hunter.

P.S. I finished the survival thread I brought up earlier. Hope you guys check it out!

Will do!

 

[a6m5]

You guys have any experience with CZ bolt actions? They are different from the American manufacturers like Ruger & Remington, that's for sure. I'm looking at their website, and they seem to make a lot of bolt action rifles.

Edit: Nevermind. I did little googling, and CZ's are scarce in the States. I also checked Howa(Browning's Japanese factory), they are the same way. Tikka looks promising, except all the one's that I was interested in does not have iron sights.

Another question: How inferior are bargain priced rifles like Mossberg & Savages? Do you guys think they should be avoided?

 

[Michael88]

Savage has very good prices but its definitely not a budget manufacturer, Savage produces great rifles that are on par and in my opinion even better than Remington, Howa etc.
Savage are famous for their accuracy easily beating most unmodified factory rifles, they also have very slick actions and are overall good quality guns. I've had three Savage rifles myself and I was very happy with them. If you want a rifle that works and shoots great out of the box get a Savage, if you want to tune the heck out of your rifle get a Remington. (700)

Especially the new tactical Savage rifles in .300 and .338 are awesome.

 

[a6m5]

That does look awesome, and I did a quick googling. Yeah, it's wrong price, Michael. Besides, it looks like no matter where I go shoot it, somebody will call Homeland Security on me.

But after your post, I will include Savage under consideration. Can you think of any shortcomings they have? I just ask, because I'm under the impression that they are not loved by the people around my area, not the same way they like Remingtons and Rugers. Still, I consider you a highly knowledgeable person on the subject, and when you say that you've owned 3, I'd pretty much consider that a green light. 👍

P.S. I should probably look for heavy barrel huh? I ran into this last night while browsing online, and as far as I can tell, they might be bit pricier, bit heavier, but still worth it?

 

[Michael88]

To be honest I can't think of any shortcomings, they're great rifles right out of the box, they're good quality guns, and accurate. But thats true with most popular manufacturers, there aren't really any ''flawed'' rifles out there, Remington, Savage, Howa, Browning, all good rifles.

Some say Savage rifles aren't exactly the prettiest rifles but I think they look good.
On top of that, they have a big advantage: its extremely easy to change barrels, with other rifles you need experienced gunsmiths but with savage rifles all you have to do is loosen a nut, unscrew the barrel, screw a new one in, use a head space gauge and you're good to go. Thats great when you have a rifle chambered in a brutal hot long range cartridge that burns out barrels in under 1000 shots. Though a new .308 barrel doesn't wear out any time soon, they start to get inaccurate at about 6000-12000 rounds depending on the barrel quality.

P.S. I should probably look for heavy barrel huh? I ran into this last night while browsing online, and as far as I can tell, they might be bit pricier, bit heavier, but still worth it?

Depends, a heavy barrel is a target barrel used for precision rifles, do you want a precision rifle? Keep in mind that the heavier barrels are 60% heavier, doesn't sound much but when you're shooting unsupported and or standing the few extra grams make the gun VERY nose heavy and you'll get tired arms really quick. Target rifle? Heavy barrel. All purpose gun? Light barrel. There are also intermediate barrels, so called ''Semi-match'' barrels, but thats after market stuff.