Real Guns

[Quackjack]

AR looking cool, and the gun being in Call of Duty definitely influenced my purchase. If I could afford it, I'd have bought a SCAR or ACR, probably.

I agree with you QJ, that Icarus character is a jerk(pronounce it like Peter from Family Guy). You used to be my call of duty brother! What's happened to you Forza!!!! Jerk!(Peter)

1. AR is the civilian model, why would it be in a military game like COD?
2. SCAR's and ACR's are rare on civvy markets; if you find one it's gonna be several thousand.

 

[a6m5]

1. AR is the civilian model, why would it be in a military game like COD?

AR is also the civilian version of the military rifle. You say "ignorant", but you must know that much?

2. SCAR's and ACR's are rare on civvy markets; if you find one it's gonna be several thousand.

There are exceptions, but yeah, generally, they are very expensive. EXACTLY why I said "if I could afford it".

3. Since obviously you guys know i'm so ignorant, i'll be seeing myself out.

We have very different approach to things. When I first joined gtplanet, I had all these false knowledge/teachings in my head, so my comments were jumped on by a lot of people, one of them being none other than the indigo one.

I didn't check myself out of those threads. Win or lose, I won even when I lost. They can come off little strong, but if you are willing to learn, they are here to help. No joke.

 

[Michael88]

I just cleaned 60 pcs of empty brass with a vinegar-salt-water mix and a drill with a bronze brush attached to it. Then I let the brass boil in water for 15 minutes to stop the salt+vinegar reaction and to get the remaining dirt out of the primer area.

Took me only 4 hours.

I want to die now....

God I'm SOOOOO going to buy a tumbler.

 

[a6m5]

Well, I'm sure it at least smelled good!



Edit: Are you going to reload those yourself, or selling them?

 

[Quackjack]

Y'know what I don't get? Why they ban alot of full-auto guns but no huge caliber guns. I can go buy a D'Eagle but not a 9mm Full Auto MP5.

 

[Michael88]

Well, I'm sure it at least smelled good!



Edit: Are you going to reload those yourself, or selling them?

I'm going to reload them. But not tonight, thats for sure, my hands smell of vinegar and look like I had an accident with a blender. A strange combination.

Oh, forgot to mention they were shot with black powder so it wasn't just ordinary nitro-fouling, it was nasty corrosive baked-on black powder fouling that eats away the brass if not cleaned in a matter of hours - the kind of stuff that ruins your day.

 

[a6m5]

Y'know what I don't get? Why they ban alot of full-auto guns but no huge caliber guns. I can go buy a D'Eagle but not a 9mm Full Auto MP5.

Technically, you can own a full-auto thru a process that requires licensing + lots of $$$.

I'm not familiar with the "why" of that restriction. Maybe it's as obvious as full-autos are deadlier than any .50 cal in the hands of idiots & criminals. I'd love to be able to own a full-auto.

I'm going to reload them. But not tonight, thats for sure, my hands smell of vinegar and look like I had an accident with a blender. A strange combination.

Oh, forgot to mention they were shot with black powder so it wasn't just ordinary nitro-fouling, it was nasty corrosive baked-on black powder fouling that eats away the brass if not cleaned in a matter of hours - the kind of stuff that ruins your day.

Ah, I see. I know of some people who reloads, but yeah, this is the first I've heard of it being stressful, or smelling like vinegar.

 

[Quackjack]

200$ fine, registering, costs more than semi's, ect. Pretty rare if ya ask me.

And 50.cals will destroy someones insides like so. I'd rather a ganster have a MP5 than a M82.

 

[Michael88]

Ah, I see. I know of some people who reloads, but yeah, this is the first I've heard of it being stressful, or smelling like vinegar.

Oh, I'm well known for my strange talent to find ways to make fairly simple boring tasks either insanely dangerous or absurdly exhausting & overly complicated.
But that usually only happens when I have to improvise.

 

[Quackjack]

I mean some full autos you could buy a car for how much they cost!

 

[a6m5]

200$ fine, registering, costs more than semi's, ect. Pretty rare if ya ask me.

And 50.cals will destroy someones insides like so. I'd rather a ganster have a MP5 than a M82.

You have to realize how much training is required to make use of a .50 cal sniper rifle. Gangbanger couldn't do anything with a .50 they couldn't do with a .308.

Oh, I'm well known for my strange talent to find ways to make fairly simple boring tasks either insanely dangerous or absurdly exhausting & overly complicated.
But that usually only happens when I have to improvise.

Well, you made it through this one. Congratulations, you can take the rest of the day off.

I mean some full autos you could buy a car for how much they cost!

I'm guessing it's because 1) they don't sell very many 2) regulatory cost(ie government getting paid)

Full-auto can be produced with very similar with cost as semi-autos. From my understanding, in many cases, semi-autos are just dumbed-down version of the full-autos.

 

[Quackjack]

Both points are very true.

 

[a6m5]

I've said this before, but maybe it is for the best that we can't get our hands on full-autos. Ammo's really expensive.

 

[Zenith]

Y'know what I don't get? Why they ban alot of full-auto guns but no huge caliber guns. I can go buy a D'Eagle but not a 9m Full Auto MP5.

Why did they ban automatic firearms? Because they're scary and it makes some people feel safer if the government says that they're illegal. The end. Making something illegal doesn't mean criminals can't get their hands on it easily.

2. SCAR's and ACR's are rare on civvy markets; if you find one it's gonna be several thousand.

Not really. The 5.56 variants are about $2,000 and the SCAR 17S .308 model is about $3,000. Both of those are about the price of a top-end AR15 or AR10. I wouldn't call either rare at all. I found all three on Impact Guns and I know my LGS has about 3 of each.

Took me only 4 hours.

I want to die now....

Sometimes I wonder why I want to get into reloading.

For whatever reason, I have a hankerin to get me a big handgun. A revolver. Don't ask why, I just do.

I would save up for something else. I've never fired a Taurus, but there are many horror stories of broken guns and worse service. You might get a perfectly functional gun, but I'd rather not risk it. I'd look at the Ruger GP-100.

You could also look into getting a used Smith and Wesson.

 

[Jedi2016]

Having used an M16 for years when I was active duty, I honestly can't think of a reason to have one now. When it comes to rifles, I'm probably just going to buy a .308, just a standard long-range hunting rifle. That's what I was best at anyway, is long-range.. there's other guns better suited for that than the AR-15. So even for me, who knows that gun inside and out, there's not much going for the AR aside from the "cool factor". And that's just not worth the cost to me, when I get a much better suited gun for a much smaller price tag. Even if you consider that the AR is designed as a more jack-of-all-trades kind of gun, you can probably get a series of guns that will cover all of those functions for less than the cost of the AR.

So aside from the "I wanna", try to think about what you're going to use the thing for, and how effective it is at that. If you're in the position to spend a couple thousand dollars on a gun that you'll only ever take to a 100 yard rifle range, more power to you. I can get a 10-22 for a couple hundred that's just as good at shooting paper.

 

[a6m5]

Having used an M16 for years when I was active duty, I honestly can't think of a reason to have one now. When it comes to rifles, I'm probably just going to buy a .308, just a standard long-range hunting rifle. That's what I was best at anyway, is long-range.. there's other guns better suited for that than the AR-15. So even for me, who knows that gun inside and out, there's not much going for the AR aside from the "cool factor". And that's just not worth the cost to me, when I get a much better suited gun for a much smaller price tag. Even if you consider that the AR is designed as a more jack-of-all-trades kind of gun, you can probably get a series of guns that will cover all of those functions for less than the cost of the AR.

So aside from the "I wanna", try to think about what you're going to use the thing for, and how effective it is at that. If you're in the position to spend a couple thousand dollars on a gun that you'll only ever take to a 100 yard rifle range, more power to you. I can get a 10-22 for a couple hundred that's just as good at shooting paper.

All true, but I think it's important to remember that when it comes to firearms, it's almost like with the cars. When people choose their next car, for some people, it's the essential need for passenger capacity, cargo room, horsepower, sport handling, etc. Then there are other factors that some people couldn't care much about, but to others, it just have to be, like shape, color, emblem, etc.

Most of the people I know see firearms as tools. Which is what guns are, essentially. I'm not gonna lie, I have that tacticool, mall ninja thing in me. Granted, more I learn about guns, more I am concerned about the purpose of the gun, caliber, the bottom line. It really influenced my decision to go after the .308 caliber.

I'm not entirely sure why AR-15s sell so well, considering the caliber. Maybe I'm not that uncommon(tacti-geek), or they are all waiting for SHTF.

 

[Zenith]

It really comes down to what makes sense for your needs. I live in a suburb and the longest range anywhere close has is 300 yards. It doesn't make sense for me to buy a 308 because I never see ranges far enough to make a difference. It definitely serves as a Jack of all Trades for me.

Even if you consider that the AR is designed as a more jack-of-all-trades kind of gun, you can probably get a series of guns that will cover all of those functions for less than the cost of the AR.

I'm gunna have to disagree with you on this one. Considering a Colt 6920 is about $1,000, what set of firearms do you think would cover all of its bases for less? It's also important to factor in the time and effort required to become familiar with the operation, shooting, and service of several different guns instead of just one.

The modularity of the AR15 is its strongest selling point for me. It can be configured for a hundred different purposes without ever having to go to a gun shop and buy another firearm. The knowledge base is there for anything you want to do with the rifle or any problems you have to fix and there will never be a headache for waiting for parts. IMO, it's a perfect workhorse.

 

[Icarus25]

Why did I say something Quackjack? Because I've followed this thread for quite a while and the first thing I saw you saw was zomg I want AR/MP5 when I turn 18. Nothing about what you've had access to or shot in your brief life. An inexperienced shooter jumping into some sort of advanced rifle just because it's cool is, quite frankly, stupid and scary. It doesn't matter how much you know, internet smarts do not equal real world smarts. If you haven't handled firearms, it's irresponsible to jump to something that is, for all intents and purposes, a gun aficionados gun.

A6, buddy, you're all good. You've got the shotgun and had the Glock, now the Kimber. Plus you've got gun buddies you go out shooting with. You've got hands-on gun knowledge. And I too would totally get an AR because it looks like a cool, fun gun. But there are other guns I'd much rather have for that money.

On the topic of full auto, it's all about capacity and time. If someone really wanted to go on a spree with a semi-auto, they've almost got to be surgical with their aim. You're not going to inflict the same damage firing as fast as you can with a semi auto handgun as you will with a full-auto. It also gives people time to react. With a full-auto, everything is over in seconds. By the time you know what's going on, it's over...unless they have multiple mags. Honestly, if I was ever in a situation, I'd rather it be someone with a semi-auto anything than full-auto. Obviously being illegal doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[a6m5]

Yeah, QJ's approach was maybe bit noobish. But some of us are here to learn, afterall. I got you guys online, have many to learn from in real life. This is the only forum I ever visit, but I am considering joining another firearm or survival forum down the line, for more expertise knowledge. If you guys know of any good ones, it's prohibited to share them in your post, but PM me.

And don't get me wrong, you guys has been, and continues to be tremendous help for me. I appreciate it. 👍

 

[Zenith]

I definitely understand your point about shooting rampages, but consider this. Every major shooting rampage of the last decade or so has ended because the shooter decided that they had had enough. Columbine and VT ended because the shooter committed suicide, Anders Breivik surrundered, Holmes left the area. The weaponry has nothing to do with how many people are killed. Since the populace is defenseless, any gun puts the shooter in a position to kill as many people as they want. It doesn't matter if they bring a 9mm and a .22 like Cho did, or an assault rifle. It's about who has a gun and who doesn't.

 

[a6m5]

It doesn't matter if they bring a 9mm and a .22 like Cho did, or an assault rifle. It's about who has a gun and who doesn't.

Wow, I didn't know Cho did all that with a Glock 19 & a Walther P22(according to wiki). 32 killed, 17 injured.

Why do I assume that political response to this was more gun control, rather than letting more people applying for concealed carry?

 

[Zenith]

Gun free zones, bro. That'll keep them psychopaths out.

 

[Icarus25]

Well, the question brought up was why are full auto weapons banned. It's because they have the potential to do exponentially more damage in a given time frame compared to semi-autos. Add to that that most were developed for the sole purpose of war, i.e killing people. That's why there are civilian versions, so law-abiding citizens who enjoy guns can buy a legal representation of a military weapon.

 

[Zenith]

The whole "potential to do harm" is also the argument that people use when they say that all guns should be banned. Same with the "built for the sole purpose of killing people" thing. I see guns as tools. They hurl projectiles, not kill people. The person behind the trigger is the one who decides what to use the tool for. Currently everyone who lawfully owns an automatic weapon uses it for the purpose of punching paper or tin cans. This is not misuse of the firearm.

I could go on, but a summary of my points is this. I've been a part of many gun control discussions in recent months and I simply can't convince my brain to regurgitate the points in detail once again.

-I do not believe that automatic weapons would make shooting rampages more destructive.
-I do not believe that making them illegal makes it any harder for those with malicious intentions to do great amounts of damage.
-I do not believe that that items should be made illegal based on their ability to cause harm. Otherwise cars and drain cleaners should be banned as well.
-I believe that guns do not kill people, people kill people. This includes automatic firearms.

 

[turbolefty78]

Good luck man. 👍 And looking around for gun's super fun anyways. If you can afford the time, your local gun show would be a good idea. You can check out 100 revolvers on one trip, and prices are usually low, too.

That's actually what started this whole ball rolling for me. It was a month ago and the wife and I went to it. Big big collection of weaponry of all sorts, not just guns. One guy even had an authentic blunderbuss, like 300 yrs old he said. It looked it too.
That show and the burglary just up the street from me has gotten me interested. Thanks again.

 

[Quackjack]

What Zenith said was on the mark. Pretty much people just feel better if the government cracks down on it.

Funny, cars kill people WAAAYYY more than guns. Are cars illegal? Nope. It's the same concept. If we banned things because they have the potential to be dangerous, we'd all be walking around in bubble wrap...

 

[Icarus25]

I don't think I've ever seen a more wrong interpretation of military firearms as "tools." You can't honestly sit there with a straight face and tell me the sole purpose of their design wasn't to inflict more damage than the enemy. They sure as hell weren't designed to put holes in paper. In a very broad sense they are a tool, and it's the person behind the trigger who is providing the necessary energy to make the "tool" do it's job.

Is banning them more fear mongering than factual evidence...sure. And no, it doesn't make it much harder for people to get them if they really want to cause as much chaos as they can. In some cases it's easier for a criminal to get a weapon than it is for a law abiding citizen. I'm not saying ban all guns, that's stupid and goes against the 2nd Amendment. Again, this wasn't a discussion on complete gun control. It was "why are automatic weapons banned" and the plainest answer is that they can do a lot more harm in the wrong hands. Be that sentiment right or wrong, it's the WHY.

The car comparison is also mildly retarded. Automobiles get people from place to place, they're necessary in this day and age for Joe Schmoe the average citizen to get to and from his job. Don't even try to bring up public transportation as an alternative because it's not feasible for a massive population. Unless you're a hunter or a soldier, guns are an "entertainment" item. You don't need one to get through your daily routine.

 

[Quackjack]

Well full auto guns aren't banned; just heavily regulated. I don't really mind.

Also, what other gun-enthusiast clubs are there besides the NRA? As pointed out, I'm new to this stuff, and would like to see what is out there. I'd rather not join a group with so many staunch republicans...

 

[B24AT6]

If you want a full automatic machine gun look no further than HERE.

 

[Michael88]

Unless you're a hunter or a soldier, guns are an "entertainment" item. You don't need one to get through your daily routine.

I'm very happy that I can defend my life / home and the lives of my loved ones with an up-to-date tool. A tool you can defend your life with is one of the most important items a human being can own.

Humans carried self defense items since they were able to use and make tools, I don't think that evolution changed us so much in the past hundred years that those items are completely useless now. Or just entertainment.

In fact, whenever I watch the news I get the feeling that self defense guns are getting more and more important -and no less important than a car or a house.