Real Guns

[Zenith]

A semi auto will be plenty expensive with ammo prices and a horde of evil tin cans. Getting a fast trigger (Geissele S3G) and a mortgage will be plenty

You're 15, trust me. You're a long way off of an AR15, even further from a select fire lower receiver.

 

[Quackjack]

Well got any lists of guns I could look into?

 

[Zenith]

You need to define a set of parameters first. We know you're looking for a first gun. Is your family/guardian willing to buy a firearm for you to use? If no then you should ask again in about 3 years. We assume you're on a budget like most teens, but we don't know your actual budget. We could be wrong. What do you plan to do with this firearm?

There have been many people before you that have been through the same experience. The information is out there. It would benefit your research skills to research a first firearm for a teen by yourself.

 

[Quackjack]

My parents have mentioned if I get good grades in my Junior/Senior year then they will get my something special. A Remington sounds good.

 

[a6m5]

What Remington are you talking about? If we are still talking about the 10/22, it's Ruger. Take it from a Remington 597(.22LR rifle) owner, try to get a Ruger 10/22.

If your parents don't own guns, I think the chances of them allowing you to have one is slim at best. Unless you have a grandpa, or uncle who can take you shooting or something. Regardless, best of luck. 👍

Hey, maybe the mount would have worked, I just said that it looks kinda low, maybe I'm wrong!

Oh, I know. Amazon let you cancel orders if they catch it before they ship it. I'll just reorder it again after I make sure the rings give the scope proper height in the back. I'll research it bit more. Thank you. 👍

Even with our tough gun laws, I could get one of those after a year of being a member of a gun club.

I need to get in better financial shape. I need a new hobby.

Boy, I love guns, but I don't know if I'd own one if I had to cut through all sorts of red tapes to do so. Best of luck to you though. I totally agree with what Michael said previously about self-defense weapons being part of basic human right. I feel that if you are responsible, law-abiding person, you should be entitled to a firearm ownership.

P.S. I installed the rubberized Magpul pistol grip on my AR tonight? Unbelievably hard, only because of the stupid screw they throw in with the grip.

It has too much thread lock or something, and I couldn't even get it to tighten it. And unlike the original bolt(allen head), it was a flat-head, which turned it into a serious pain in the ass.

I finally just ended up using the original bolt it came with, and voila, done in one minute. Grip itself is absolutely awesome. Rubber rules.

Edit: P.S. I forgot to add, but lets play nice, guys. I've known Icarus for a long time. Z-Man, much shorter, but very helpful and respectable member. You guys are smart enough to coexist together!

 

[Zenith]

Obama said today that he wishes to reintroduce another Assault Weapons Ban. Thoughts? Surprise?

All I know now is that prices and availability of everything is now going straight to hell.

a6m5: You're talking about a foregrip or the rear grip?

I assume you mean the rear grip. That's odd. It should just be a washer and a screw. Check to make sure the receiver's threads are properly lined up and that the spring for the safety isn't getting caught. Maybe more pictures?

 

[a6m5]

Obama said today that he wishes to reintroduce another Assault Weapons Ban. Thoughts? Surprise?

All I know now is that prices and availability of everything is now going straight to hell.

Yeah, I caught that tonight, that lady so concerned about AK47.

Initially, I was glad that I had bought my rifle already, but yeah, I supposed you are right about the P&A going up. Better buy more mags, as soon as I actually test all three(Bushmaster, DPMS, Magpul).

a6m5: You're talking about a foregrip or the rear grip?

I assume you mean the rear grip. That's odd. It should just be a washer and a screw. Check to make sure the receiver's threads are properly lined up and that the spring for the safety isn't getting caught. Maybe more pictures?

Yes, I was talking about the pistol grip, and it came with just one screw(no washer). Like I said, I ended up re-using the original hardware(screw + washer) that was used to attach the original Magpul grip(non-rubber), and it installed fine. Problem was with the crap screw the new pistol grip came with.

 

[Quackjack]

C'mon Obama, please don't mean what I think you mean...

Can anyone elaborate on that?

 

[Michael88]

Better buy more mags, as soon as I actually test all three(Bushmaster, DPMS, Magpul).

Are there any steel mags available for the AR10? Thats what *I* would want to get - yes, they're heavier, prone to rust and all but the feed lips will last MUCH longer and the magazine won't crack or break when it hits the floor fully loaded. I'd at least get a few steel mags as backup. They just work. 👍

 

[a6m5]

C'mon Obama, please don't mean what I think you mean...

Can anyone elaborate on that?

He basically stated that he wants to push the assault rifle ban, which previously ran from I think 1994~2004. My coworker was telling me that during the ban, high capacity magazine prices rose like crazy. U.S. is lucky to have criminals who observes these gun control laws. You know, as in observe and laugh at it & 🤬 on it, while law-abiding people are stuck with even more restriction. Well done, democrats.

Romney has the support of the NRA, but from what I understand, he was anti-gun before NRA got to him as well. At least we don't have to worry about him in this regard.

Are there any steel mags available for the AR10? Thats what *I* would want to get - yes, they're heavier, prone to rust and all but the feed lips will last MUCH longer and the magazine won't crack or break when it hits the floor fully loaded. I'd at least get a few steel mags as backup. They just work. 👍

The stock mag(Bushmaster) & DPMS are steel, and they are identical. Only thing is, the magazine follower(where the bullet sits?) are plastic.

My third magazine, Pmag is plastic, but from what I read, it's trusted enough to be seen in Middle East, durable and reliable.

When I finally go shoot it this weekend, I'll test all three magazines, and go from there. :tup:

 

[Quackjack]

C'mon Obama. I'm a democrat *as is obvious by now* but he is NOT helping himself there, that's just a shot in the foot.

 

[Zenith]

If you're afraid of breaking your magazines, you don't have enough magazines.

I don't baby my .223 steel, aluminum, or polymer magazines. They've all held up pretty well. Personally I have no worries about the durability of my Pmags or Lancer L5's, but I don't have any meaningful experience with the .308 versions. I've found that the most important part of the AR15 magazine is the follower. I'd guess that this holds at least mostly true for the AR10. Make sure whatever mags you buy have an anti-tilt follower.

Edit: Obama's AWB comment probably just lost him voters. All it did was alienate previously indifferent or undecided firearm rights advocates like me. I struggle to think of anyone who would've previously voted for Romney, but is now supporting Obama because of his AWB comment.

 

[Solid Lifters]

The stock mag(Bushmaster) & DPMS are steel, and they are identical. Only thing is, the magazine follower(where the bullet sits?) are plastic.

My third magazine, Pmag is plastic, but from what I read, it's trusted enough to be seen in Middle East, durable and reliable.

When I finally go shoot it this weekend, I'll test all three magazines, and go from there. :tup:

You can usually replace the follower in the magazine if one causes you trouble. It's easy to do. Below is a YT video that shows the steps.
Note: Pay no attention the the 'chrome silicon' spring suggestion in the video. It's total BS. Stick with the original spring. It's the follow that causes the most trouble.

 

[Michael88]

If you're afraid of breaking your magazines, you don't have enough magazines.

But what if you are carrying only a handful of magazines with you in a vest?

I don't baby my .223 steel, aluminum, or polymer magazines. They've all held up pretty well. Personally I have no worries about the durability of my Pmags or Lancer L5's,

I'm concerned about plastic parts strength in general, not just mags. I had a Magpul PRS synthetic rear stock on one of my savage's aluminum stocks and after about a hundred rounds or so the stock started to split where the two plastic parts were welded together.
Thats a pretty common problem with all kinds of plastic parts and I've seen that kind of damage quite a few times.
Loaded mags are under a lot of stress, if you let them drop on a hard surface chances are good that they will split right there. Especially with heavy 308's in it.
A metal magazine will not split as easily.

There is a saying: if you know plastic you'll choose metal.

 

[Zenith]

But what if you are carrying only a handful of magazines with you in a vest?

I was focusing on a6m5's normal use which would be at a range.

snip

For a6m5 and me, the most important part of the magazine is the follower. We won't be dropping fully loaded magazines out of helicopters any time soon, so as long as it's got an anti-tilt follower, I think it's good.

There might be some .308 durability tests out there, but the many .223 ones that I've seen put the polymers that Magpul and Lancer use in a good light. The fact that they flex instead of bend probably helps their durability quite a lot. If you've got any, I'd love to see them.

AR magazines should be treated as wear items. You use it until its performance degrades then you either rebuild it or throw it out and replace. Unfortunately this means that an AR's weakest link is often the magazine. Kalashnikov took the opposite approach by designing a fool-proof magazine and attaching a gun to it.

 

[a6m5]

Very interesting discussion on the magazines. While Z-Man's right about how very little I'll put my magazines through, I should definitely be concerned about durability as well.

I was going to just shoot it this weekend, see if I experience any hiccups with any of them. I will give durability some consideration after this. Good info guys, I appreciate it. 👍

I don't baby my .223 steel, aluminum, or polymer magazines. They've all held up pretty well. Personally I have no worries about the durability of my Pmags or Lancer L5's, but I don't have any meaningful experience with the .308 versions. I've found that the most important part of the AR15 magazine is the follower. I'd guess that this holds at least mostly true for the AR10. Make sure whatever mags you buy have an anti-tilt follower.

Well, Magpul sure is talking up their magazine.

The 7.62x51 NATO (.308 Winchester) PMAG 20LR is a lightweight, cost effective, high reliability magazine for SR25/M110 pattern rifles featuring true 20-round capacity, constant-curve body, and snap on Impact/Dust Cover.

Designed specifically for military-issue MK11/M110 rifles and mil-spec ammunition (including M118LR), the PMAG 20LR is less than half the weight of standard issue steel magazines and maintains a service life round count approximately equal to the rifle barrel itself. link

Here are my three magazine followers(from top; Magpul, Bushmaster, DPMS):

Are they anti-tilt? I don't know what standard follower looks like.

You can usually replace the follower in the magazine if one causes you trouble. It's easy to do. Below is a YT video that shows the steps.
Note: Pay no attention the the 'chrome silicon' spring suggestion in the video. It's total BS. Stick with the original spring. It's the follow that causes the most trouble.

Good to know. Thank you. 👍

 

[Zenith]

Push down on the very front and back of the follower. Does the entire follower move up and down or does one side tilt. You want the follower to push the rounds up in a uniform fashion. If the stack of rounds tilts it can often cause double-feeds or failure to feeds. It's also more likely to spill its rounds when dropped.

Like this:

 

[a6m5]

All three are brand new, so it was bit hard to tell, but I think the Bushmaster & DPMS tilts. Magpul followers seem to go down evenly at level.

 

[Michael88]

standard issue steel magazines and maintains a service life round count approximately equal to the rifle barrel itself.

That just means as much as saying ''A lot''. Whats service life time? MOA or less? 2 MOA?

A quality carbon steel barrel in .308 for sporting applications usually burns its throat after 5000-6000 under normal firing conditions, then it won't hold MOA anymore. Very high quality barrels can last up to 8000, chrome lined barrels 14000 or more.

Oh, and I just found this pic:

 

[a6m5]

Good one. 👍

Sort of unrelated, but the barrel on my rifle is supposedly "chrome-lined bore and chamber". So, it should help prolong the life of the barrel?

 

[Michael88]

Good one. 👍

Sort of unrelated, but the barrel on my rifle is supposedly "chrome-lined bore and chamber". So, it should help prolong the life of the barrel?

Definitely! Common rule is that chrome lined barrels last almost twice as long as plain carbon steel bores and they wear less under prolonged firing. Though chrome lined barrels are marginally less accurate - thats why you won't see any pure sniper rifles with CL barrels, but many machine guns and standard infantry rifles with those barrels.
Chrome lined barrels are also a bit easier to clean and are VERY rust resistant.

The barrel should be good for 10k+ rounds until it it starts losing accuracy fast.

I have two rifles with chrome lined bores and I love them.

 

[Zenith]

By the time you shoot out a modern rifle barrel you'll have gone through several thousand dollars worth of ammunition. That's how I justify buying expensive barrels.

 

[Michael88]

Its still good to know your rifle can hold off hundreds of zombie waves without needing to replace its barrel.

Oh, and....

 

[Quackjack]

This is so funny.

 

[a6m5]

Yeah, some good ones. 👍

Well, I finally managed to get to the range. After going through 100 rounds of .308, my bleeping shoulder is sore!

Right off the bat, after about 3 rounds, it jams. I couldn't believe it. Spent shell is stuck on the ejection port. I clear this, and now I see a bullet stuck in the chamber, and it will not close all the way.

This shooting range goes "hot" and "cold". Hot is when you shoot, and you go change your target when it's cold. So when the range go cold, I'm still fighting this thing, getting nowhere. I noticed that the only other guy shooting was also shooting a AR. I asked for his advice, then the range officer nearby came, and they actually opened it up, and cleared it for me. For some reason, when I tried to break the rifle open by undoing just the rear pin, it would not open. Range officer just went to both the front & rear pin, it came apart just fine.

Both guys determined that the problem was with the dry bolt carrier. I sprayed some Remoil on it, last night. Then I wiped it off. I guess it needs to be lubed real well? I borrowed some Rem Oil, and after the lube job, there was no hiccup after that.

I just shot at the 25 yard range today, sighting in the Magpul backup sight, then my 1911 sight. All in all, productive morning. According to my calculation, ammo + range + paper target cost me just over $100 today. Not cheap.

Definitely! Common rule is that chrome lined barrels last almost twice as long as plain carbon steel bores and they wear less under prolonged firing. Though chrome lined barrels are marginally less accurate - thats why you won't see any pure sniper rifles with CL barrels, but many machine guns and standard infantry rifles with those barrels.
Chrome lined barrels are also a bit easier to clean and are VERY rust resistant.

The barrel should be good for 10k+ rounds until it it starts losing accuracy fast.

I have two rifles with chrome lined bores and I love them.

That's good news! 👍

By the time you shoot out a modern rifle barrel you'll have gone through several thousand dollars worth of ammunition. That's how I justify buying expensive barrels.

True.

 

[Zenith]

Yeah, some good ones. 👍

Well, I finally managed to get to the range. After going through 100 rounds of .308, my bleeping shoulder is sore!

Right off the bat, after about 3 rounds, it jams. I couldn't believe it. Spent shell is stuck on the ejection port. I clear this, and now I see a bullet stuck in the chamber, and it will not close all the way.

This shooting range goes "hot" and "cold". Hot is when you shoot, and you go change your target when it's cold. So when the range go cold, I'm still fighting this thing, getting nowhere. I noticed that the only other guy shooting was also shooting a AR. I asked for his advice, then the range officer nearby came, and they actually opened it up, and cleared it for me. For some reason, when I tried to break the rifle open by undoing just the rear pin, it would not open. Range officer just went to both the front & rear pin, it came apart just fine.

Both guys determined that the problem was with the dry bolt carrier. I sprayed some Remoil on it, last night. Then I wiped it off. I guess it needs to be lubed real well? I borrowed some Rem Oil, and after the lube job, there was no hiccup after that.

I just shot at the 25 yard range today, sighting in the Magpul backup sight, then my 1911 sight. All in all, productive morning. According to my calculation, ammo + range + paper target cost me just over $100 today. Not cheap.

Check these.

For further reference:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35490
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=85863

The bolt carrier does not need to be wet. Give it some grease on the points where it contacts the receiver. The bolt itself should be fairly wet, in addition, but a drop of lube on each of the locking lugs. I also prefer "thicker" oil that comes in bottles rather than the spray type.

By what you posted, it seems you had a failure to eject and a failure to go into battery. Both of these problems can be attributed to poor lubrication, but be vigilant to make sure that your weapon isn't defective.

Was your gun almost completely dry before shooting?

Other than that, good to hear that you're getting out there and making progress 👍

 

[a6m5]

Yeah, I do think it was pretty dry. Like I said, I sprayed some Rem Oil the night before, but it was very sparsely, then I wiped it off. Not a sign of trouble after lubing it.

This is a very handy dandy guide. Thank you! 👍

Edit: That bore cleaner foam is trick!

 

[Michael88]

Both guys determined that the problem was with the dry bolt carrier. I sprayed some Remoil on it, last night. Then I wiped it off. I guess it needs to be lubed real well? I borrowed some Rem Oil, and after the lube job, there was no hiccup after that.

Hey, I said that AR type rifles need to be oiled well, AK's and FAL's do not.

I wouldn't use bore foam after every range session, that stuff is aggressive and will remove the copper fouling which is not so great. You'll need 10-20 shots to get some copper fouling onto the barrel so it starts to shoot consistently again. So next time on the range don't worry if you get strange accuracy issues and stringing during the first 20 shots.
They only thing I do is spraying WD40 into the barrel, let it soak 1/2 hour and than run a bronze brush through the bore 2 times, wipe it clean and all the powder fouling is gone. Next time on the range the first shots all half MOA and at point of aim, after thousands of shots without cleaning out the copper fouling. Consistency, just how I like it.

 

[a6m5]

Hey, I said that AR type rifles need to be oiled well, AK's and FAL's do not.

Well, dammit. That might suck as a SHTF rifle.

I wouldn't use bore foam after every range session, that stuff is aggressive and will remove the copper fouling which is not so great. You'll need 10-20 shots to get some copper fouling onto the barrel so it starts to shoot consistently again. So next time on the range don't worry if you get strange accuracy issues and stringing during the first 20 shots.
They only thing I do is spraying WD40 into the barrel, let it soak 1/2 hour and than run a bronze brush through the bore 2 times, wipe it clean and all the powder fouling is gone. Next time on the range the first shots all half MOA and at point of aim, after thousands of shots without cleaning out the copper fouling. Consistency, just how I like it.

With my shooting ability, somehow I get the impression that copper fouling will never affect my accuracy.

I'll give WD40 a shot!

 

[Bye Ya]