Real Guns

  • Thread starter Calibretto
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Omnis
I have a 30mm bullet like that from an airshow. It doesn't have any powder in it but it's got a turquoise jacketed bullet and looks like it belongs to some kind of cannon. When I was a kid I used to imagine how bad my day would be if I got hit by one of those. You could throw it at someone and give them a contusion.
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There's a famous video on YouTube where three insurgents being hit with 30mm cannon fire. They just explode. Very gruesome.


WARNING! Very Graphic!

 
Yeah, they are stationary, so it must be a chopper. I think only A-10 had the 30. Still, I find these footages really intense. Feel really bad for the guys getting hit by them, but you know, you put them in the position to smoke their enemy, they would do the same thing. Such is life. :crazy:
 
It depends on the helicopter. The Marines' AH-1Z Viper uses a 20mm cannon, while the Army's Apache uses 30mm. Either way, being on the receiving end means you are going to have a bad time.
 
Omnis
I looked it up. 20mm Vulcan.
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Your round, or the cannon in the video?

Because, the cannon in the video was a Hughes M230 30mm Chain Gun. You can hear the rate of fire in the video. A 20mm Vulcan has a MUCH FASTER rate of fire.

Hughes-M230-Chain-Gun4.jpg


 
Keep in mind the a10 uses an 8 barrel electric gatling gun shooting 30mm (gau 8 i blieve is the technical name).
 
That's an M14 retrofitted with a rail system. It's either called the M14 DMR or EMR depending on branch of service.

I hated this gun in MGS4 on extreme difficulty because the PMC snipers can somehow shoot me even though I'm at 99% camo...
 
Damn, thanks for the quick reply, guys. 👍 So either way, it looks to be a Springfield Armory .308 sniper rifle deals. I recently read, on a Japanese article of all things, how a .308's starting to matter in the military again, due to the desert warfare in places like Afghanistan. .223 apparently just don't have the range sometimes.

Very cool gun. 👍
 
Rifles like those work in Afghanistan because of the huge areas and valleys between mountains. Close encounters with the enemy is not as common in Afghan compared to Iraq, what with urbanization and all. So a heavier bullet with stopping power is more apt for the job.

However, as my Marine friend told me, in street to street and from room to room, the lighter M4 is preferred due to handling and low recoil of the 5.56 rounds.
 
Yeah, that's been my impression, exactly. I recently purchased a AR chambered in .308, because...... because it's .308! :dopey: While it's just awesome to have 20 rounds of .308 on a standby, I do feel that 30 rounds of .223 in a lighter AR would make me quicker & more efficient ninja, since I only weigh about buck-fifty.

I'm not in the military or law enforcement. I don't know why I think of these things, I just do. :odd:
 
.308 don't really make sense as assault rifle rounds because of the recoil I mentioned, but they can drop a dude real quick.

However the 5.56/.223 round can produce some nasty wounds. That same friend in the Marines said stopping power is an issue here and there, but a lot of times the guys getting shot are hopped up on drugs with euphoric/pain suppression affects.
 
.308 makes all the sense in the world, waddaya talkin'bout! :P It goes far, it'll go FMJ(Call of Duty lol). It won't do that weird stuff .223 do inside your body, it'll just hit you hard, game over. :lol:
 
Except that weird stuff that goes on in your body when a bullet tumbles is pretty catastrophic.:yuck:

Sorry if I'm sounding like a Debbie downer.:dopey:
 
But here's the surprise: According to the video a few pages back, when a skinny dude like I'm hit by a .223, bullet often exits before it does that fragmentation stuff to cause most damage. So in theory, .223's like a .22 that hits really hard to someone like me. :dopey: I'd probably still die. lol
 
That's the thing with physics and anatomy. Everybody is the same yet different. Every bullet is the same yet different. You're gonna get a rounds that go all the way through clean, some will tumble, others fragment. And some may not even penetrate the thinnest of metallic protection by some miracle. Bullets are just objects that may have a tendency to do what they were designed to do, beyond maiming the intended target of course.

In ballistics, with so many factors in play, it really is the luck of the draw with what wounds are a result of what round.

But as my friend said, all that stuff doesn't matter when you can place your shots properly. He doubts a guy shot in the heart can immediately fire back, even if it was a .22.

Among the military folk I've talked to, and I talked to a lot in Savannah since my oldest brother lives there, they seemed content with the current rounds we have. Sure they'd like a more powerful round, but they also lament the added weight to weaponry and burden of maintaining control during firing. They would all agree though that shot placement takes precedence above all.👍
 
All true, but is it just me, or with the AR & AK, they are just shooting at everything? Maybe it's just the footages on the news & on youtube. *shrug* But it is why I still give much credit to bolt-action rifles. Bullet coming out of those rifles are meant to hit a target.

P.S. With the .223, in combat, I think it would be hard to hit me in the heart, but in all reality, you probably just have to hit one of my bones. Ouch.
 
a6m5
All true, but is it just me, or with the AR & AK, they are just shooting at everything? Maybe it's just the footages on the news & on youtube. *shrug* But it is why I still give much credit to bolt-action rifles. Bullet coming out of those rifles are meant to hit a target.

P.S. With the .223, in combat, I think it would be hard to hit me in the heart, but in all reality, you probably just have to hit one of my bones. Ouch.
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You'd be surprised what Adrenaline mixed in with experience can do. That said, I'd rather eat raw garlic instead of taking one to the leg or any bone. Not only you got bullet damage, but you got damage from bone shards tearing up tissue.:ouch:

And those TV news footage of soldiers firing like they don't care are probably providing covering fire or returning it. When it's footage of a sniper shooting, you can probably say he got someone.
 
a6m5
All true, but is it just me, or with the AR & AK, they are just shooting at everything? Maybe it's just the footages on the news & on youtube. *shrug* But it is why I still give much credit to bolt-action rifles. Bullet coming out of those rifles are meant to hit a target.
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The Taliban like to make contact then break contact and run away. Firing a lot of rounds in their general direction is a good way to make them stay put while you flank/40mm GL/AT/mortar whatever they are using as cover or call in big artillery or CAS to deliver their 72 virgins by airmail.

It doesn't matter what calibre your weapon is chambered in (unless it's 40mm HE or .50 firing Raufoss) if you can't get a decent shot on a target - it turns into trench warfare with sides sitting in cover exchanging fire but making no real progress. That's where fire superiority comes in, whether that's squad-level LMG/MMG allowing suppress and flank or an Apache clearing the floor.
 
That's what I mean though. With the .223 & AK rounds, there seems to be a lot of covering & suppressive fire. And I don't know about the AK rounds, but .223 can't be good at penetrating through whatever covers the enemies are hiding behind.

I wish I did have a M4 though. What a cool little gun, and it does seem like a blast to shoot.
Edit:
MarinaDiamandis
It doesn't matter what calibre your weapon is chambered in (unless it's 40mm HE or .50 firing Raufoss) if you can't get a decent shot on a target
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Makes sense.
 
The M4 at a distance will have a tough time penetrating cover that the enemy is hiding behind, but so long as those bullets are forcing the enemy to not return fire, then it's doing the job I suppose.
 
A cop was once shot in the heart. He died, or course, but not after returning fire and killing the bastard who killed him. He was shot in the heart with a 9mm and yet was able to return fire. Like you said, we're all the same but different. And yes, bullets do funny things.
 
a6m5
That's what I mean though. With the .223 & AK rounds, there seems to be a lot of covering & suppressive fire. And I don't know about the AK rounds, but .223 can't be good at penetrating through whatever covers the enemies are hiding behind.
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The suppression is what keeps casualties to a minimum. If the enemy never gets a chance to shoot at you, you're not going to get hit (by bullets at least). Slow, aimed shots open the door for accurate return fire or becoming suppressed yourself, which leads to unnecessary casualties.

Obviously the 7.62mm of the AK has better penetration when compared to the 5.56mm used by most modern rifles, but well trained soldiers can counter this by choosing good, solid cover and being smart with their movement.

The mix of 5.56mm and 7.62mm in the average platoon is a huge advantage, the 5.56mm bringing great potential at closer ranges and suppression (think of the volume of 5.56mm fire from a 10-12 man infantry squad, let alone an entire platoon) at longer ranges where accuracy is less important.

At longer ranges the 7.62mm can pick off targets with a single shot (5.56mm soldiers suppressing can call targets so that the 7.62mm soldier can pop up and take them out quickly), be used to harrass or keep the enemy at optimum distance and can still be very nasty in CQC. A 7.62mm DMR positioned with line-of-sight on a chokepoint has a good chance of doing collateral damage and passing through multiple targets.

Let alone all the other stuff a platoon carries (MGs, launchers, etc).
 

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