Relaxed, General Forza 6 Chat

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Don't want to bring it up in the GTS section, but I think now T10 can safely rest as far as having the biggest car list out there, nothing is gonna threaten that status in the observable future, up to 602 cars now and counting, I wonder if they're gonna slow down the car production for FM7, although I hope they don't. FM6 is by far my most played game in the series and the new expansions keep injecting life into it....

Yeah, it looks like Forza will exclusively hold the high-quality content in large quantities thing from now on. Or at least in the foreseeable future. The one competitor that is even more well funded than they have certainly proven that they can't keep up as well as being unable to really get anything right (sounds, physics, AI etc.).

Though really, setting the competition aside I foresee an amazing time in Forza's future, especially now that it's also coming to PC.:D
 
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Nice find! I also wonder if we'll see a standard car pack in June.

I will actually be surprised if there won't be a car pack revolving around the new Ford GT LM GTE next month. June is Le Mans time and that race more or less inspired the car. It would seem fitting as the concept car was positioned as the star of FM6. Remember how the Ford DP headlined the monthly car pack when the new Ford GT made its racing debut at Daytona.
 
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That's a statement with blinkers on. I have both and Gran Turismo has great name recognition.

I'll make a not so bold statement... Grand Turismo Sport will sell more that the last two Forza installments combined.

Gran Turismo Sport will show a measureable increase in PS4 sales.

You overestimate Forza 6's appeal to the mainstream. My feeling about that is that people will happily skip an installment of Forza for whatever reason. People WILL NOT skip THIS installment of GT Sport because there's pent up demand from back to GT5.
 
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That's a statement with blinkers on. I have both and Gran Turismo has great name recognition.

I'll make a not so bold statement... Grand Turismo Sport will sell more that the last two Forza installments combined.

Gran Turismo Sport will show a measureable increase in PS4 sales.

You overestimate Forza 6's appeal to the mainstream. My feeling about that is that people will happily skip an installment of Forza for whatever reason. People WILL NOT skip THIS installment of GT Sport because there's pent up demand from back to GT5.
Weird, reception of the game is really showing otherwise. Either way, GT has always sold more than Forza, but I'm not sure what that would mean for it other than it is literally selling more than Forza.

The argument of people skipping forza for "whatever reason" is an odd one. People will skip GT for whatever reason as well, but what does that even mean really?

The only thing that's drawing me in right now is photomode, but that's also something that draws me in for most any game, so it's not really a selling point, especially considering the focus of the game has the least to do with photos. Yet, that is quite literally the only thing enticing me, and that is extremely odd given the situation. I'm not seeing it as a good reason, or something to even mention in favor of the series, that the reason why people will not skip out on it is because of the previous two games not really feeling up to par.

Will I get it? Probably, depending on if it's optimized and functionality is solid. However, this is not in any way a must have title. It seems like it would be the one to skip and wait for the next one, much like a lot of people took Forza 5 as.
 
The reason is I expect many people skipped GT6 which is fine.

Will people skip GTS? I cant say that they will. You may say they will. I am skeptical of that. The best you can say is that its not GT7 but I wouldnt argue that.

There was no logical reason to skip Forza 6 or GTS.

There were logical reasons to skip both GT6 and Forza 5.
 
That's a statement with blinkers on. I have both and Gran Turismo has great name recognition.

I'll make a not so bold statement... Grand Turismo Sport will sell more that the last two Forza installments combined.

Gran Turismo Sport will show a measureable increase in PS4 sales.

You overestimate Forza 6's appeal to the mainstream. My feeling about that is that people will happily skip an installment of Forza for whatever reason. People WILL NOT skip THIS installment of GT Sport because there's pent up demand from back to GT5.

People won't skip a GT game that seemingly has no offline mode, no more dynamic time or weather, and the least amount of cars and tracks in a GT game outside of the Prologues? I think you overestimate how many people will buy GT on name alone. Over half the folks that bought GT5 skipped GT6, best case scenario.

Will GTS sell more than FM5 + FM6? Eh, possibly; IIRC, that's a number hovering between 3.5 and 4 million. Personally, I can't see it selling more than GT6 did considering its niche appeal. At least you're not suggesting it sells that number in a week, which is what one particularly optimistic member claimed over in a GTS thread earlier today!

...

Have they put out a second patch yet? After the latest update borked the hoppers, I have very little desire to play. Probably a good thing now that I've hit Level 400.
 
Thing is, businesses dont see sole numbers. They see growth. Its like an IPhone. It'll always be the most selling smartphones ever nowadays (whatever is because the name or loyalty, thats out of question). But their growth is slowing or even shrinking in some markets, which is the fact written in check numbers. Bad for investors and in developer case its bad for licensors and sponsors. You need to keep those entities afloat to gain those guys (including car manufacturers and track owners) trust.

I'm slightly worried about PD tbh. Like I said its not the game that really sucks, its their development is semmingly slow and misdirected compared to almost all of its competitors. Forza may not be the biggest selling racing game, but it has big potential to be the biggest growth in sales with the real barrier being in XBone which is quite lost in numbers compared to PS4.

Note that "nowadays" is a strong word. Who knows that in the future, market leaders can be regressed or even thrown out if they cant keep up. Remember Nokia?
 
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The reason is I expect many people skipped GT6 which is fine.

Will people skip GTS? I cant say that they will. You may say they will. I am skeptical of that. The best you can say is that its not GT7 but I wouldnt argue that.

There was no logical reason to skip Forza 6 or GTS.

There were logical reasons to skip both GT6 and Forza 5.
If people skipped GT6, there's a good chance they're skipping GT Sport. The game seems to be lacking in every category against GT6 beyond photomode & having the FIA behind it. Even PD/Sony appear to be doing damage control by removing videos, something I never saw GT6 go through.
 
You guys seem to forget that this is first outing for Gran Turismo on the ps4. That is something.

Even if its ****, and I'm not arguing it isnt, it will sell. The base is there. 40 mil. ps4s? All these people want something for their consoles. GTS is it. And like GT6 I dont expect they can ask full price for long on it anyway given that the content isnt there.

In any case, I dont think its such a big issue. I remember buying GT6 for about half retail a few weeks out of release. It just didnt hit with the impact that it should have.

Same with Forza 6. I dont expect any of these games will have a high price for long.
 
You guys seem to forget that this is first outing for Gran Turismo on the ps4. That is something.

Even if its ****, and I'm not arguing it isnt, it will sell. The base is there. 40 mil. ps4s? All these people want something for their consoles. GTS is it. And like GT6 I dont expect they can ask full price for long on it anyway given that the content isnt there.

In any case, I dont think its such a big issue. I remember buying GT6 for about half retail a few weeks out of release. It just didnt hit with the impact that it should have.

Same with Forza 6. I dont expect any of these games will have a high price for long.
Sony had that same logic for releasing GT6 on the PS3 because it had a userbase of 70 million to the PS4's 0. It churned out the worst release for the franchise; 4.7 million units.
 
GT Sport will sell, but I'm certain it'll have a high trade-in number as well.

There's going to be many who get it, discover there's barely anything to do that isn't online and trade it in for something else.
 
I find it strange how the masses are generally not attracted to racing games in the slightest yet when a new installment of GT comes along it's a case of "oh my effing Gaaaaawd" Why does that blinkered, mob mentality exist? When Forza 6 came out there was very little excitement outside of car lovers. Yet seeing Forza 6 then and GTS now, I can safely say I was a lot more excited about the former and I have both consoles!

I really think GT has solely become a kind of status symbol- it was not only a name at one point. There was substance and something truly revolutionary about it. Now, it's become another racing game but people still treat it as something mythical.

I don't know why it's gone downhill. Take GTS: so many cars we've seen are fantasy PD cars like the VGTs, Group 'B', etc. So even though there are no standards any longer, these fantasy cars probably take up 30% of the 137 car roster. Never used to be the case from GT1 to GT4. Ever since GT went 'Hi-Def' with GT5, gameplay has suffered at the expense of graphics and trying to outdo Forza by adding craploads of standards and claiming they had more cars. I say quality over quantity.
 
The funny thing is that Forza Motorsport is now the last game to actually be emulating the original Gran Turismo style. GT Sport has moved on to the pCARS/AC/TOCA motorsport type game, with what appears to be a fairly high proportion of fantasy cars and fantasy racecars based on real life stock models.

If you want something with a decent amount of "everyday" type cars that you can upgrade and tune, Forza Motorsport is all that is left. FM6 is probably the best iteration of a GT-type game seen so far, but it still shares a lot of the innate weaknesses of the archetype that have gone largely untouched since GT1.

Funny though that so many think that GTS is actually competing with Forza Motorsport, when the general opinion around pCARS and AC were that they wouldn't be able to challenge a GT-type game because they were focused on a different market.

IMO, Forza Motorsport has finally got the market to itself. You want Gran Turismo: go buy Forza Motorsport.
 
What I also find interesting about this whole GT Sport situation -

So many people were mad about Forza 5 'only' having 200 cars at launch.

People also were especially mad at the fact that T10 supposedly prioritized getting all cars 'Forzavista' capable and that was a waste of resources, subsequently hurting the car count at launch.

Now, 2 and a half years later - Turn 10 are producing cars at a ridiculous pace all in forzavista quality - and with VR becoming a thing - it seems more and more a smart move to have made all cars forzavista.

And since the GT6 premiums weren't future proofed, GT are way behind. It almost feels like GT are doing what Forza 5 did but only 2 and a half years late incorporating a new focus to compete more with the PCars/AC crowd with an E-Sports focus, very fancy photomode (which does look crazy good I must add) and a livery editor (although we'll see how much functionality it has compared to the likes of NFS 2015 and FM6/FH2/3) and thus leaving FM6 in a market in it's own in sense (as @Imari) so rightly pointed out.
 
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This might be a silly way of looking at it, but I like the fact that Forza 6 isn't selling 10 million copies. They are selling enough, where I'm sure they are still making great money(especially with the DLC), but probably not as much as they would like.

To me this just means they will continue to improve the game and work to make it even better, and not just throw out something because it's going to sell 6 million copies+, regardless if its a great game or not.

As far as sales numbers go, Gran Turismo Sport, will probably sell a lot more than Forza 6, and I haven't really read a lot on it, but the online mainly element of that game may turn a lot off, it would me. There's also a lot more options when it comes to the racing game market, so they will have less and less room for error as time goes by and people get into other franchises. I doubt I get a ps4 just for Gran Turismo.

Those are my feeling on it. One last thing, ( and this isn't a shot at Gran Turismo, I've been playing since the first one), just because something sells a bunch, doesn't mean it's great. Look at all the money Adam Sandler or Tyler Perry have made on their garbage movies they were spewing out once a year. There's a lot of sheep in the world today, that will buy something just because of a name, and not necessarily because it's a great product.
 
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^ Agree with the above posts. Forza looks to be the new GT lol. GTS' competition lies with AC, PCars, iRacing etc and not Forza 6. At the moment, Forza 6 is in a league of its own. I believe PD saw all the flak they were receiving at the hands of fans because of the standards, poor AI, not enough career events, dubious engine sounds etc and saw that AC and PCars sacrificed car count for dynamic weather, good AI, great sounds, physics and so on and decided to go down that route. I firmly believe that GT7 as GT7 exists as GTS if that makes sense.
I doubt we'll see another GT game for the next 3 years after GTS comes out judging by PD's track record. I mean, GT3 came out in 2001, GT4 in 2004, GT5: Prologue 2007, GT5 in 2010, GT6 in 2013 and now GTS end of 2016. Always been a 3 year gap between installments and with all the resources they've put into GTS, I can't believe it will just be a "tie you over game" until 12 months down the line.
 
This might be a silly way of looking at it, but I like the fact that Forza 6 isn't selling 10 million copies. They are selling enough, where I'm sure they are still making great money(especially with the DLC), but probably not as much as they would like.

On a related noted, people often talk about how Forza's car list will climb toward 800 - 1000 cars for the next game. How are they going to find the licensing money if sales keep going backward with each iteration? I don't know how expensive licenses are for cars and tracks in video games, but I assume every license needs to be renewed with every new game. I wouldn't like to see a situation where existing content is replaced with new content simply because they need to do something different that is economically feasible. Content numbers which actually mean something is one of Forza's strongest points right now, and I think they need to keep adding on top of what they already have if FM7 wants to differentiate itself enough to stand out from its predecessor and other racing games.

It was mentioned above that Forza Motorsport still offers the classic "GT" experience, but I'm not sure that's enough to still attract large crowds anymore. I adore FM6 for having nearly every car I have valued throughout my life and more. Without those numbers it would just be another good driving game that wouldn't be the Xbox One system seller FM6 was for a Playstation veteran like myself. My point is that Forza Motorsport needs to maintain enough sales to hold on to its impressive content. Forza Horizon sales may contribute to that cause, but the last thing Forza Motorsport needs is to start fumbling around with its core strengths because of decreasing sales. Maybe it's only an unfounded worry for now.
 
On a related noted, people often talk about how Forza's car list will climb toward 800 - 1000 cars for the next game. How are they going to find the licensing money if sales keep going backward with each iteration?

Do they sell less? Either way I don't see them struggling with Microsoft along them, they monetise the customer much better (or worse, depending how you regard it) than GT did so far and they are still among the system sellers.
 
Microsoft wanted to topple Gran Turismo in establishing Turn 10. It seems their licensing arm sees the value of getting all the coolest cars in the world into their games, at any cost.

I don't think the significance of the Porsche sub-license and getting a brand like Rolls Royce is given enough credit.

Gran Turismo consistently offers a knock off Corvette race car, whilst T10 circumvent an exclusive contract time and again, whilst getting the car world's ultimate luxury brand to feature their cars for the first time.
 
You guys seem to forget that this is first outing for Gran Turismo on the ps4. That is something.
So was FM5 on Xbox One, it didn't change the fact that the general consensus, much like GTS, was that it wasn't worth it because all the things it was lacking(because it was a rushed launch title, something that GTS isn't), and that people would rather wait for the next iteration. The problem here being that GT/PD take ages to even release a game, in comparison to an almost guaranteed two year wait with Forza. On top of that, you have Horizon to tide you over on in-between years.

Even if its ****, and I'm not arguing it isnt, it will sell. The base is there. 40 mil. ps4s? All these people want something for their consoles. GTS is it. And like GT6 I dont expect they can ask full price for long on it anyway given that the content isnt there.
But it's the new GT on PS4, so you'd expect it to hold its price for a bit. I'm not complaining about the price anyways, that's irrelevant. I dont think GTS is "It" though, because it's such a niche genre that it's almost non-existent to most people. GT6 had a base of what, 80 million, yet that didn't seem to help it much.
 
I find it strange how the masses are generally not attracted to racing games in the slightest yet when a new installment of GT comes along it's a case of "oh my effing Gaaaaawd" Why does that blinkered, mob mentality exist? When Forza 6 came out there was very little excitement outside of car lovers. Yet seeing Forza 6 then and GTS now, I can safely say I was a lot more excited about the former and I have both consoles!

I really think GT has solely become a kind of status symbol- it was not only a name at one point. There was substance and something truly revolutionary about it. Now, it's become another racing game but people still treat it as something mythical.

I don't know why it's gone downhill. Take GTS: so many cars we've seen are fantasy PD cars like the VGTs, Group 'B', etc. So even though there are no standards any longer, these fantasy cars probably take up 30% of the 137 car roster. Never used to be the case from GT1 to GT4. Ever since GT went 'Hi-Def' with GT5, gameplay has suffered at the expense of graphics and trying to outdo Forza by adding craploads of standards and claiming they had more cars. I say quality over quantity.

PS4 is a status symbol, I have friends and acquaintances who never talk about gaming and I never thought they even liked gaming yet under their big TV is a PS4, it's like its something they have to own but don't really know why. Its odd, like a check list of stuff that shows you've 'made it' new car on finance, massive TV on finance, smart clothes and PS4 with FIFA 20xx and GTA 5.
Its a part of the modern culture in same way as people say "hoover" when using a Dyson PlayStation is the word people use to describe a console, my Mum calls my xbox a PlayStation for example however much I correct her..
 
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The funny thing is that Forza Motorsport is now the last game to actually be emulating the original Gran Turismo style. GT Sport has moved on to the pCARS/AC/TOCA motorsport type game, with what appears to be a fairly high proportion of fantasy cars and fantasy racecars based on real life stock models.

If you want something with a decent amount of "everyday" type cars that you can upgrade and tune, Forza Motorsport is all that is left. FM6 is probably the best iteration of a GT-type game seen so far, but it still shares a lot of the innate weaknesses of the archetype that have gone largely untouched since GT1.

Funny though that so many think that GTS is actually competing with Forza Motorsport, when the general opinion around pCARS and AC were that they wouldn't be able to challenge a GT-type game because they were focused on a different market.

IMO, Forza Motorsport has finally got the market to itself. You want Gran Turismo: go buy Forza Motorsport.

It's so interesting to see this posted here. Had a chat with a few GTP members just yesterday about the same thing: with GTS moving in such a drastically different direction, it's the optimal time for T10 to align Forza (Motorsport) as the replacement for old GT's. Unless PD is sandbagging by holding all the old GT6 Premiums back for the next full installment, there's no way any other franchise is going to catch Forza's count this generation, and it does one better than GT6 by having such a broad list of cars and disciplines.

I know some people are tired of it, but GT's car-based quasi-RPG approach is what I loved about the PS1, and to a lesser extent the PS2, generations. It felt exciting having to bargain hunt for my first car, and carefully budget for the gradual improvements it saw. The later games threw that aside. I love that the only thing stopping me from entering a race in the PS1 days was my license level, and it was up to me to find a competitive car. GT6's career feels so linear by comparison, funnelling us through races with specific cars.

For those that want access to all cars off the bat, Forza already nails the perfect middle ground IMO: everything's available in Arcade Mode, but if you want to tune or customize, you'll have to earn it. And it won't be the utter grind-fest that GT became on the PS3. Even that wasn't a huge concern in the older games: I didn't mind running Red Rock over and over again to sell off the Speed 12 and gain 550k, since no car cost over 2 million. Now, GT has 20 million credit cars, but race rewards haven't kept pace with that inflation.

Forza gets so much right with the old GT formula, but there's still a few things I miss. I realize it's probably never coming back, but the online Auction House could easily stand in as a Used Car dealership. T10 could populate it with some cheap used cars prior to release, and then let the community do the rest. Maybe even keep some of the T10-provided stuff in permanent stock, to ensure nobody is left without a decent starter. It can't be too hard, right?

I think the most detrimental thing to GT has been the change in attitude about the franchise itself. Where as the earlier games were about the love of cars, and the joys of "regular" models, the later games have become increasingly about what relationships PD can boast about. Sure, it helps Polyphony become more recognized in the automotive sector in real life, but at what cost to the games? There's nothing accessible about a relationship with Bugatti, or the Vision GT project. Forza still has a reputation as a supercar-heavy title, when it's arguably GT that's focused more on those (excluding Standards, as they're carryover content). GT Sport will only reinforce that, since it's primarily PD-designed fantasy race cars and VGT's.

I'm very curious what FM7 will turn into, as it will essentially have that particular part of the genre all to itself in 2017.
 
It's so interesting to see this posted here. Had a chat with a few GTP members just yesterday about the same thing: with GTS moving in such a drastically different direction, it's the optimal time for T10 to align Forza (Motorsport) as the replacement for old GT's. Unless PD is sandbagging by holding all the old GT6 Premiums back for the next full installment, there's no way any other franchise is going to catch Forza's count this generation, and it does one better than GT6 by having such a broad list of cars and disciplines.

I know some people are tired of it, but GT's car-based quasi-RPG approach is what I loved about the PS1, and to a lesser extent the PS2, generations. It felt exciting having to bargain hunt for my first car, and carefully budget for the gradual improvements it saw. The later games threw that aside. I love that the only thing stopping me from entering a race in the PS1 days was my license level, and it was up to me to find a competitive car. GT6's career feels so linear by comparison, funnelling us through races with specific cars.

For those that want access to all cars off the bat, Forza already nails the perfect middle ground IMO: everything's available in Arcade Mode, but if you want to tune or customize, you'll have to earn it. And it won't be the utter grind-fest that GT became on the PS3. Even that wasn't a huge concern in the older games: I didn't mind running Red Rock over and over again to sell off the Speed 12 and gain 550k, since no car cost over 2 million. Now, GT has 20 million credit cars, but race rewards haven't kept pace with that inflation.

Forza gets so much right with the old GT formula, but there's still a few things I miss. I realize it's probably never coming back, but the online Auction House could easily stand in as a Used Car dealership. T10 could populate it with some cheap used cars prior to release, and then let the community do the rest. Maybe even keep some of the T10-provided stuff in permanent stock, to ensure nobody is left without a decent starter. It can't be too hard, right?

I think the most detrimental thing to GT has been the change in attitude about the franchise itself. Where as the earlier games were about the love of cars, and the joys of "regular" models, the later games have become increasingly about what relationships PD can boast about. Sure, it helps Polyphony become more recognized in the automotive sector in real life, but at what cost to the games? There's nothing accessible about a relationship with Bugatti, or the Vision GT project. Forza still has a reputation as a supercar-heavy title, when it's arguably GT that's focused more on those (excluding Standards, as they're carryover content). GT Sport will only reinforce that, since it's primarily PD-designed fantasy race cars and VGT's.

I'm very curious what FM7 will turn into, as it will essentially have that particular part of the genre all to itself in 2017.

So true and its what made it all the more annoying when people try to compare PCars to Forza 6, Forza 6 a driving game yes but its not in direct competition with PCars, Forza doesn't have to try to copy PCars it is what it is and you can have Forza 6, PCars and DiRT rally in your collection and they all do things differently enough to give them your time provided you are a normal person who doesn't get tribal with a game.
One of Shifts problems was that it tried to be a bit like GT and Forza (remember shifts awful paint booth?) when in fact it should of fully committed to the GRiD autosport route, which it did in PCars and became the next gen ToCA a lot of people had been hoping for.. its all swings and round about's.
 
Hi all,

Today we released another update for Forza Motorsport 6. This update addresses issues introduced with the NASCAR Expansion, including:

  • Rolling starts have been moved back by 15 meters on the following courses: Rio Full, Rio National, Rio Coast Loop, Indy GP Classic, Indy GP, Yas Marina South, and all Watkins Glen ribbons.
  • For lapped traffic, “Distance behind” in HUD now measures distance by meters or feet, not laps
  • Fixed an issue with Drivatars losing collision after a rewind when the Drivatars are in a pitting state, but outside of pit lane
  • Fixed an issue where certain players were unable to continue in career without upgrades


Thanks,
Brian
CT2.jpg

Brian Ekberg
Forza Community Manager
ForzaMotorsport.net
 
Will GTS sell more than FM5 + FM6? Eh, possibly; IIRC, that's a number hovering between 3.5 and 4 million. Personally, I can't see it selling more than GT6 did considering its niche appeal.

Currently that number is around 3.7m, and by the time GTS comes out, I can see it being at least 4m. Will GTS sell 4m copies? Maybe, but I'd be willing to bet the majority of GTS buyers would be casuals that will have done no research on the game beforehand, and will buy it based on it's name alone, and those people will be the ones who either won't play the game, or will return it, as soon as they find out it's not a proper GT game. As Imari said, Forza is the only GT game you can buy now.

The base is there. 40 mil. ps4s? All these people want something for their consoles. GTS is it.

All of these people already have Project CARS, Driveclub, The Crew, F1, Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo, Dirt Rally, and will also have Assetto Corsa and another F1 game as well before GTS comes out. What exactly do these PS4 owners want that GTS will have, that none of the many racing games already on PS4 can't give them?

GTS doesn't offer the large roster of cars and customisation of previous GT games, or the large track selection, or the course creator, or the offline career mode, or a bunch of other things the previous GT games became known for (I've seen no mention of any B-Spec in GTS). So what does GTS offer? A livery editor? That's literally the only good piece of news I've read about GTS, but with only 137 cars, and a large portion of those being VGT and duplicates, a livery editor is going to get boring quickly.

People will buy it because of the name alone, but that won't be enough for it to sell more than GT6, and it definitely won't be enough to keep the casual gamers interested when they find out it's the battlefront of racing games.

As for what GTS will offer PS4 owners, Pcars already offers almost as many cars, but with much more variety (no duplicates), almost 4 times as many track layouts, a large offline career, and esports competitions. What's GTS got that Pcars doesn't? a photomode and better graphics, but it sacrifices dynamic time and weather for those graphics, which Pcars has.
 

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