Relaxed, General Forza 6 Chat

[Turnaround]

I think the most detrimental thing to GT has been the change in attitude about the franchise itself. Where as the earlier games were about the love of cars, and the joys of "regular" models, the later games have become increasingly about what relationships PD can boast about.

You've just nailed down what's been bugging me about GT for the past 5-6 years. I remember how exciting it seemed when PD's relationships with real automotive entities started to ramp up (this was before GT5 released, though I was admittedly excited about the Vision GT prospect too). Turns out that these relationships seemed to have done nothing more than shift attention away from the games themselves which contributed to their stagnation/regression.

Which is why I'm really glad I found GTPlanet (This is one of the better forums I've seen ). Otherwise I wouldn't have known just how good other racing games were getting, especially when it comes to sound design. In fact, it was Forza Motorsport 4 () that got me to admit GT just wasn't that good anymore. GT5 just looked cheap in comparison; especially when I took in how it was flawed in pretty much every capacity. Some of you people are amazingly thorough when analyzing everything about a game.

Edit: I really have learned to trust the opinions of the members here on GTPlanet. After seeing all the negative reactions surrounding GTSport during its reveal I think its time I moved on from GT. I imagine there are others who feel the same way. Word of mouth can be a pretty powerful thing.

 

[Marqus]

the battlefront of racing games.

An apt description.

 

[Swinkel]

All of these people already have Project CARS, Driveclub, The Crew, F1, Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo, Dirt Rally, and will also have Assetto Corsa and another F1 game as well before GTS comes out. What exactly do these PS4 owners want that GTS will have, that none of the many racing games already on PS4 can't give them?

When I look at my own situation, I agree Project Cars and DriveClub offer a great variety of cars and game modes. I bought both games but I simply don't like them. Rally games and F1 are too much specialised to be an alternative I think.

Driveclub feels too much like an arcade racer with limited cars. The visuals were awesome though. I bought Project cars on day one. I was enthusiastic the first 2 days. But on top of that I don't like how cars drove I encountered too many bugs. Animations going wrong and the game even crashed 2 times the first week. I'm only just a little bit more serious than a casual racer I guess but the more realistic weekend setup sounds great but for me in theory but isn't really convenient. With the limited time I sometimes have I like to just fire up GT6 or Forza 6 and do 1 to 3 races that take 10 minutes each and switch it off again. I felt like I couldn't really do that with Cars as I needed to first drive few laps, make changes to the set up, test again, qualify, race... Since then I haven't touched the game.

Gran Turismo stands for quality. Not only does it look good I like how the cars handle. Whether it's realistic I don't know but I grew up with GT so maybe that's why I like their car handling. GT games certainly have their flaws. The biggest flaw in every GT game so far is the HORRIBLE AI in single player races. I never like their slow menu's. Like SlipZtrEm mentioned they switched from a rpg like experience (what I liked as well) to a linear grind experience in career mode. I also dislike that they have switched their focus from regular cars + race cars to race cars + fantasy cars. Still... I will buy GT Sport and no doubt enjoy the game. I thought to have read it would also still have a career mode. But I assume it won't have as much depth as I would like.

The fact that it is the first GT game for PS4 will be enough to reach good sales numbers I think.

I'm still a Forza newbie but recently I bought an Xbox with forza 6 in mind. I believed the alternatives weren't good enough on PS4 and it took way too long for PD to even mention a release date for a new GT game. Obviously in the meantime they have

Of course I imaged Forza would be great otherwise I wouldn't have bought a new system with Forza being the main reason. I immediately liked it and the more mileage I make I like it even more I certainly don't regret my purchase!
Most likely I'll also continue to buy all GT games but looking at the directions both games are going I think I'll be putting a lot more hours into Forza 6 and future editions than GT. I do hope Turn 10 will stay true to its current format and build on from that.

 

[Swinkel]

Which is why I'm really glad I found GTPlanet (This is one of the better forums I've seen )

I couldn't agree more

 

[Mike_grpA]

Rally games and F1 are too much specialised to be an alternative I think.

I don't see the need to dismiss certain racing titles just because they only focus on one discipline. Good rally games are a ton of fun, and F1 games usually have very good attention to detail and often feature a number of circuits you don't find in other racing games. I would rather have 5 very different racing games than buy every version of one franchise.

Driveclub feels too much like an arcade racer with limited cars.

Driveclub's physics feel more realistic to me than GT6's. Sure you can change set up parameters in GT6, but it doesn't produce anything like real world results, so it's pointless. Put DC on hardcore mode, so it takes away the grip and brake assists, and it feels close to Forza 5, and significantly more believable than GT's wooden physics. As for cars, GTS will have 137 cars, a large amount of those will be VGTs and duplicates (there is literally 4 versions of the same lancer...). By comparison, Driveclub has 114 cars, with no imaginary cars, and no duplicates. All unique, and many very desirable models not present in many, if any, other games. DC has a far superior car list to what we know of GTS.

I'm only just a little bit more serious than a casual racer I guess but the more realistic weekend setup sounds great but for me in theory but isn't really convenient. With the limited time I sometimes have I like to just fire up GT6 or Forza 6 and do 1 to 3 races that take 10 minutes each and switch it off again. I felt like I couldn't really do that with Cars as I needed to first drive few laps, make changes to the set up, test again, qualify, race... Since then I haven't touched the game.

In this paragraph, you sound like the exact person Driveclub was made for, but I'm glad you find Forza suits your needs. I agree that Pcars is a much more serious sim, which requires learning how to properly set up a car. Not really well suited to casuals.

Gran Turismo stands for quality.

Those days are long gone my friend. The last GT game that felt like a quality purchase was GT4. GT5 and 6 were plagued with bugs and the physics were laughably backwards from reality. The inclusion of standard cars and tracks that had not been so much as touched up since the PS2 days, in a 2013 release, was the exact opposite of quality.

I thought to have read it would also still have a career mode. But I assume it won't have as much depth as I would like.

There's no career mode. There's a handful of tutorials, like licence tests, and the normal arcade mode. Other than that, it's online only. As I said previously, it's the Battlefront of racing games.

The fact that it is the first GT game for PS4 will be enough to reach good sales numbers I think.

Depends on what you (or PD and Sony for that matter) consider to be good sales. Compared to Pcars I bet it'll sell well, but compared to every other GT game I bet it doesn't at all. Also, the game's success will depend entirely on how many people continue to play online, as the entire game depends on that. I can't see the majority of people who buy GTS being long-term online racers. Only a tiny niche of racing game players are interested in racing in leagues, most want a story or career mode. GTS doesn't offer that, and so I bet most buyers leave it on the shelf or return it shortly after buying.

As for the rest of your post, I'm glad Forza 6 fits your needs, it is, by any measure, an excellent game. I too hope T10 stays true to the recipe, because now that PD is trying way too hard to make GT different, Forza is the only series to turn to for that specific type of racing experience.

 

[dopedog]

Talking of Shift 2 there are things I'd of liked to of started seeing coming into Forza now its next gen that Shift 2 did well, for example the interior of the cars changes as you upgrade, Shift 2 was OUTSTANDING with this feature and the chance to totally race mod a car complete with big aero and such was awesome.
Had Shift 2 been better received then I think Turn 10 would of had to at least try to do that in their game, sadly I don't think we will ever see that feature ever again and its one which still astounds me with Shift 2 to this day.
My point? Who is pushing Turn 10 now apart from themselves that is and is that healthy for the franchise?

 

[VXR]

My point? Who is pushing Turn 10 now apart from themselves that is and is that healthy for the franchise?

That is my biggest worry. Six is an utterly fantastic game, but what it has isn't new. 7 really needs to add innovative features, even if it's something wacky like the Carrozzeria feature of the original Sega GT.

 

[willbsn13]

Talking of Shift 2 there are things I'd of liked to of started seeing coming into Forza now its next gen that Shift 2 did well, for example the interior of the cars changes as you upgrade, Shift 2 was OUTSTANDING with this feature and the chance to totally race mod a car complete with big aero and such was awesome.
Had Shift 2 been better received then I think Turn 10 would of had to at least try to do that in their game, sadly I don't think we will ever see that feature ever again and its one which still astounds me with Shift 2 to this day.

I love that feature in Shift: 2

Will T10 do it though? Definitely not. I mean, the amount of additional modelling needed to make upgrade-able interiors for the 400+ road cars already in FM6 would be ridiculous, let alone the exterior modifications needed for a works conversion for all said cars. That would severely hinder there car production which would affect one of their main sources of revenue..for a feature that would probably be under utilized by a significant majority of the playerbase? Doesn't make any sense business wise unfortunately.

They could do it for a few select cars though, much like the rally upgrades. That would be cool.

 

[dopedog]

I love that feature in Shift: 2

Will T10 do it though? Definitely not. I mean, the amount of additional modelling needed to make upgrade-able interiors for the 400+ road cars already in FM6 would be ridiculous, let alone the exterior modifications needed for a works conversion for all said cars. That would severely hinder there car production which would affect one of their main sources of revenue..for a feature that would probably be under utilized by a significant majority of the playerbase? Doesn't make any sense business wise unfortunately.

They could do it for a few select cars though, much like the rally upgrades. That would be cool.

Yes I won't happen, it took them long enough to do the reflective inside windshield (hey guess what Shift 2 did that already on the 360!!).
You can work around it and that's where to be fair imagination comes in (I come from a time of gaming where all we really had was imagination due to graphical constraints).

 

[PJTierney]

That is my biggest worry. Six is an utterly fantastic game, but what it has isn't new. 7 really needs to add innovative features, even if it's something wacky like the Carrozzeria feature of the original Sega GT.

A greater focus towards clean Multiplayer racing would be a good start...

 

[Swinkel]

It looks like I was reason for a lot of quotes. Take it easy my friend

I didn't say to dismiss other titles on ps4 and that they can't be enjoyed. I mean they are too specialised to be a real alternative to GT. They all involve racing with cars but that's pretty much where the comparison ends. I still miss GT or a GT like game on PS4.

I'm no expert on realism with physics and all and I don't pretend to be. I don't have a racing car in real life to compare of have any experience other than seeing and hearing them roar in real life. Still it is just my personal and humble feeling that Driveclub doesn't exactly come across as a sim but more like arcade. Whether correct or not that's how experienced it.

I don't really see the fact that I don't have much spare time make me the right person for Driveclub. If they really intended to create the game with the very specific individualistic me as the main audience then I guess they failed But to be serious, I am sure they haven't failed at all. It just isn't for me.

I'm not a hardcore online racer but can't call myself 100% casual either. I spend a lot more time on racing games then most people I know in real life that own racing games. I was crazy enough to collect almost all cars on GT5 and buy a decent steering wheel for gt5 (G25). And without taking advantage of the known bug in the beginning, all credits were earned in races. Now if I would have more spare time however, wouldn't have a wife and kid that demand time I probably would be a dedicated hardcore racer haha

I still see GT as quality with regard to driving and the visuals. In my point of view including old cars was better than leaving them all out. But it's just personal taste to see that as good or bad decision. But I agree with you that not EVERYTHING is quality. Menu's, ridicoulous AI and more.

I had read in a dutch news article that GT sport would also include a solo career mode included. If you say is true that would be a real let down. The better for me that I bought an xbox and Forza 6 then

Whether buyers will be happy, eventually spend a lot of time on it or not, I still expect PD will sell more copies of GT Sport than GT6. GT6 was a polished and updated GT5 on an old console while PS4 was already out. A little too late. This will be the first GT game on the very popular PS4. We will have to wait and see but that is my prediction.

Just to point out since I have my xbox I am more biased to xbox and Forza and am pretty much neglecting my ps4. I'm not pro PS at all.

I'm glad we at least agree that Forza 6 is an excellent game Phew.

Cheers!

 

[diegorborges]

It's so interesting to see this posted here. Had a chat with a few GTP members just yesterday about the same thing: with GTS moving in such a drastically different direction, it's the optimal time for T10 to align Forza (Motorsport) as the replacement for old GT's. Unless PD is sandbagging by holding all the old GT6 Premiums back for the next full installment, there's no way any other franchise is going to catch Forza's count this generation, and it does one better than GT6 by having such a broad list of cars and disciplines.

I know some people are tired of it, but GT's car-based quasi-RPG approach is what I loved about the PS1, and to a lesser extent the PS2, generations. It felt exciting having to bargain hunt for my first car, and carefully budget for the gradual improvements it saw. The later games threw that aside. I love that the only thing stopping me from entering a race in the PS1 days was my license level, and it was up to me to find a competitive car. GT6's career feels so linear by comparison, funnelling us through races with specific cars.

For those that want access to all cars off the bat, Forza already nails the perfect middle ground IMO: everything's available in Arcade Mode, but if you want to tune or customize, you'll have to earn it. And it won't be the utter grind-fest that GT became on the PS3. Even that wasn't a huge concern in the older games: I didn't mind running Red Rock over and over again to sell off the Speed 12 and gain 550k, since no car cost over 2 million. Now, GT has 20 million credit cars, but race rewards haven't kept pace with that inflation.

Forza gets so much right with the old GT formula, but there's still a few things I miss. I realize it's probably never coming back, but the online Auction House could easily stand in as a Used Car dealership. T10 could populate it with some cheap used cars prior to release, and then let the community do the rest. Maybe even keep some of the T10-provided stuff in permanent stock, to ensure nobody is left without a decent starter. It can't be too hard, right?

I think the most detrimental thing to GT has been the change in attitude about the franchise itself. Where as the earlier games were about the love of cars, and the joys of "regular" models, the later games have become increasingly about what relationships PD can boast about. Sure, it helps Polyphony become more recognized in the automotive sector in real life, but at what cost to the games? There's nothing accessible about a relationship with Bugatti, or the Vision GT project. Forza still has a reputation as a supercar-heavy title, when it's arguably GT that's focused more on those (excluding Standards, as they're carryover content). GT Sport will only reinforce that, since it's primarily PD-designed fantasy race cars and VGT's.

I'm very curious what FM7 will turn into, as it will essentially have that particular part of the genre all to itself in 2017.

@SlipZtrEm , you nailed my feelings about the GTS/Forza situation.

I'm so glad I've got my XOne. My feeling right now about GT is: I'm sad. The whole car collecting/love was also what I've loved about it. Since the moment they removed the "Used Car Dealer" in GT6, nerfing the importance of licenses, removing the classic endurance events, I think it lost a good part of its soul.

About Forza, I've never experienced FM4 (really want it to come in the backward compatibility list but probably won't happen ) and I really think how lovelly the Auction House was. I really want those things in FM6. The only thing I think Forza needs to improve it's the car love/relationship thing. The latest unicorn cars, etc, even if some I could never win/have, they add something special to the game. You must have rarer cars, its important to have access to all content in some way but you gotta have that special ones that when you meet them at the track you think: wow, that's a rare car.

And they could use some of the variations in the older games car list.

I would love to have the regular 1.6 liter Fiesta, any other version of the S2000, etc.

 

[queleuleu]

It's so interesting to see this posted here. Had a chat with a few GTP members just yesterday about the same thing: with GTS moving in such a drastically different direction, it's the optimal time for T10 to align Forza (Motorsport) as the replacement for old GT's. Unless PD is sandbagging by holding all the old GT6 Premiums back for the next full installment, there's no way any other franchise is going to catch Forza's count this generation, and it does one better than GT6 by having such a broad list of cars and disciplines.

I know some people are tired of it, but GT's car-based quasi-RPG approach is what I loved about the PS1, and to a lesser extent the PS2, generations. It felt exciting having to bargain hunt for my first car, and carefully budget for the gradual improvements it saw. The later games threw that aside. I love that the only thing stopping me from entering a race in the PS1 days was my license level, and it was up to me to find a competitive car. GT6's career feels so linear by comparison, funnelling us through races with specific cars.

For those that want access to all cars off the bat, Forza already nails the perfect middle ground IMO: everything's available in Arcade Mode, but if you want to tune or customize, you'll have to earn it. And it won't be the utter grind-fest that GT became on the PS3. Even that wasn't a huge concern in the older games: I didn't mind running Red Rock over and over again to sell off the Speed 12 and gain 550k, since no car cost over 2 million. Now, GT has 20 million credit cars, but race rewards haven't kept pace with that inflation.

Forza gets so much right with the old GT formula, but there's still a few things I miss. I realize it's probably never coming back, but the online Auction House could easily stand in as a Used Car dealership. T10 could populate it with some cheap used cars prior to release, and then let the community do the rest. Maybe even keep some of the T10-provided stuff in permanent stock, to ensure nobody is left without a decent starter. It can't be too hard, right?

I think the most detrimental thing to GT has been the change in attitude about the franchise itself. Where as the earlier games were about the love of cars, and the joys of "regular" models, the later games have become increasingly about what relationships PD can boast about. Sure, it helps Polyphony become more recognized in the automotive sector in real life, but at what cost to the games? There's nothing accessible about a relationship with Bugatti, or the Vision GT project. Forza still has a reputation as a supercar-heavy title, when it's arguably GT that's focused more on those (excluding Standards, as they're carryover content). GT Sport will only reinforce that, since it's primarily PD-designed fantasy race cars and VGT's.

I'm very curious what FM7 will turn into, as it will essentially have that particular part of the genre all to itself in 2017.

I've just bought Forza Horizon 2 a few days ago (thanks to the GTsport event but that is another question^^) and honestly the great soundtrack makes the game much more enjoyable. But I agree Forza has everything to be the new RPG-Gran Turismo. I would add : music, a little more of "soul", (I know this word is forbidden after Driveclub) because IMO it feels bland in the menus sometimes. For instance the dealership in GT1 has something very special with the background image and the car manufacturer music.

 

[Nielsen]

Do they sell less?

I don't have the exact numbers for FM6. Anyone having reliable and recent sales figures for FM6 are welcome to post them. I can only refer to this GTP article in which FM6 is said to have sold 1 million copies as of January 2016. Using a less reliable measure, the leaderboard tied to FM6's opening tutorial currently has somewhere around 2.5 million global entries. A handful of those are undoubtedly set by accounts benefitting from game sharing, but counterweighing those are also players who were offline at the time they did the opening tutorial, meaning the latter didn't register a leaderboard entry and are unlikely to have done so since then. I think it's reasonable to assume that FM6 sales currently lie somewhere around 1.7 million copies. Maybe less, maybe more. FM5 exceeded 2 million copies in lifetime sales, as mentioned in the aforementioned article.

The difference in sales numbers between FM6 and FM5 may turn out to be negligible, hence I closed my previous post saying that worries about decreasing sales may be unfounded. Still, I don't think the respective sales numbers for FM5 and FM6 are close to matching FM4 sales on Xbox 360, but possibly close when combining sales for both Xbox One titles. Here it's also worth pointing out that the Xbox 360 had been on the market for longer when FM4 released than Xbox One had when FM6 released. FM7 will be the real measure against FM4 here. Additionally, the racing genre is populated by tighter competition these days (even with a new-generation Gran Turismo currently unavailable). Some former Forza Motorsport players possibly got converted into Forza Horizon players after FM4. There's also the Xbox One market share against the PS4. Didn't some late 2015 reports mention a 3:1 ratio in favor of the PS4? All things considered, Forza Motorsport is probably doing as well as the circumstances allow, and I'm sure the future will be brighter sales-wise when Windows platforms receive a proper Forza Motorsport release.

Either way I don't see them struggling with Microsoft along them, they monetise the customer much better (or worse, depending how you regard it) than GT did so far and they are still among the system sellers.

Having Microsoft alongside a studio doesn't make it safe. Surplus still has to be generated across the various divisions. Just look at Sony's former Evolution Studios. Not that I think Turn 10 is struggling, but I do believe they need to sell more if they plan on making bigger games than FM6 content-wise. Again, expanding Forza to PC may be the answer in an age where the Xbox One can only dream of matching the highly successful Xbox 360.

For one, FM has a robust DLC program which I imagine brings in quite a bit of money.

I'm honestly not sure how much money the DLC generates although car packs can be interpreted as abundances of early access content. I bet it wasn't cheap bringing Porsche to FM6, and VIR (part of the Porsche Expansion) is by far one of the least used tracks in the leaderboards. Homestead still needs some time to prove itself but I can only imagine it will do worse being part of the less vaired NASCAR Expansion. Again, leaderboard entries should be taken with a grain of salt when trying to estimate sales. However, expansions do require an internet connection and I'm sure most players buying them are drawn to the idea of lapping the new tracks at least once.

 

[RacerPaul]

Talking of Shift 2 there are things I'd of liked to of started seeing coming into Forza now its next gen that Shift 2 did well, for example the interior of the cars changes as you upgrade, Shift 2 was OUTSTANDING with this feature and the chance to totally race mod a car complete with big aero and such was awesome.
Had Shift 2 been better received then I think Turn 10 would of had to at least try to do that in their game, sadly I don't think we will ever see that feature ever again and its one which still astounds me with Shift 2 to this day.
My point? Who is pushing Turn 10 now apart from themselves that is and is that healthy for the franchise?

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it

Shift 2 would have the very best driving game of its gen if they hadn't muffed the handling

 

[DatNoiseV12]

They could do it for a few select cars though, much like the rally upgrades. That would be cool.

Agreed. They could have done that for the "Team Forza" cars.

 

[Speedster911]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it

Shift 2 would have the very best driving game of its gen if they hadn't muffed the handling

A real sad waste of talent and resources. That game had it all. Just needed to dial in the handling. PCARS still reminds me of Shift. Wish it didn't.

 

[VXR]

Agreed. They could have done that for the "Team Forza" cars.

Yeah, they were a massive waste of time and a missed opportunity.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

There is a preowned thrustmaster 458 wheel for xbox one for £50 in a shop near me, and I was wondering if it is any good? Is it like a t150?

 

[RacerPaul]

There is a preowned thrustmaster 458 wheel for xbox one for £50 in a shop near me, and I was wondering if it is any good? Is it like a t150?

If its a 458 Spider wheel, it doesnt have force feedback. Good steering wheel though, I have one

ps. Seeing as I've had a bit of bad news on the health front lately, I've treated my self to one of these for gaming...

32 inch. Great colour and contrast. I'm sitting close so the curve is cuddly too

 

[GranTurismo guy]

If its a 458 Spider wheel, it doesnt have force feedback. Good steering wheel though, I have one

Ah. I see. Damn

 

[RacerPaul]

Ah. I see. Damn

If you just wish to see how you fancy a wheel, its a good starting point

 

[GranTurismo guy]

If you just wish to see how you fancy a wheel, its a good starting point

Well that isn't an issue, already have a t150

Would be nice if this console restriction BS didn't exist.

 

[LumpiestFish]

If its a 458 Spider wheel, it doesnt have force feedback. Good steering wheel though, I have one

ps. Seeing as I've had a bit of bad news on the health front lately, I've treated my self to one of these for gaming...

32 inch. Great colour and contrast. I'm sitting close so the curve is cuddly too

I've never used a curved TV before but I've always been interested as to what they are like?

 

[UKMikey]

I've never used a curved TV before but I've always been interested as to what they are like?

I have the 55“ version of Paul's TV and although there may be issues showing a movie to a large group of friends I can confirm that the view's extremely immersive when playing racing games. It's easier to forget you're watching a screen somehow.

 

[RacerPaul]

I've never used a curved TV before but I've always been interested as to what they are like?

... I can confirm that the view's extremely immersive when playing racing games. It's easier to forget you're watching a screen somehow

Sums it up nicely. Great for gaming or tv on your own but not very sociable lol. Only a very narrow sweet spot

 

[PJTierney]

We had an 80" curved TV in our office last year (Samsung are a sponsor/partner of one of our games), playing P.T. on that was scary to say the least.

 

[RacerPaul]

We had an 80" curved TV in our office last year (Samsung are a sponsor/partner of one of our games), playing P.T. on that was scary to say the least

Whats PT?

 

[bremics]

Whats PT?

Freaky first person horror game, sorta Silent Hill reboot/reimagining by Hideo... Eh. The guy behind Metal Gear Solid.

He and Konami were having issues and they cancelled it. Lots of drama about it.

 

[neddyie118]

I wonder if Forza 7 will feature the new Top Gear rally cross track setup!