Religion is contrived

[sicbeing]

Everyone just needs to stop posting here and go back to work or whatever it is you're doing.

we all obvveiously have VERY different views on everything, you make your own theories based on what you believe in, we not everyone here believes the same things and they never will, no one here is gonna be converted and born agan and yet no one here is gonna free themselves from christianity. These debates will go on for the remander of time until we all die and see for ourselves.

Its starting to get a little to hot for me in here because im not the best debater, i said what i can and no matter how much i try to disprove others and fail, others try and disprove me and fail, and same thing goes for everyone, i think the only way for this monster thread to die is if we just stop. because it isnt going anywhere

 

[Swift]

Everyone just needs to stop posting here and go back to work or whatever it is you're doing.

we all obvveiously have VERY different views on everything, you make your own theories based on what you believe in, we not everyone here believes the same things and they never will, no one here is gonna be converted and born agan and yet no one here is gonna free themselves from christianity. These debates will go on for the remander of time until we all die and see for ourselves.

Its starting to get a little to hot for me in here because im not the best debater, i said what i can and no matter how much i try to disprove others and fail, others try and disprove me and fail, and same thing goes for everyone, i think the only way for this monster thread to die is if we just stop. because it isnt going anywhere

Perhaps you are correct. However, I'm simply not going to let someone tell me that my faith is contrivied and completely fabricated from someone's imagination. BTW, I know you didn't say that...

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Some truth jumps out at you like that car example. True. Can you think of any truths that don’t? (rhetorical question)

I did read your post, congratulations! You picked out what information you wanted to discount and ignored the rest.

No I thoroughly researched it...all of it and then the author...what did I ignore, was it the link to extraterrestials?

You wanted to know what journal it was published in and I have that info to you. That first link with Mrs. Brown was the first Google result of a prayer experiment that, from the looks of it, has been done by several different groups of people. Her paper was an account of what someone else did, I didn’t read anywhere that she was actually involved with the experiment.

It wasn't published in any Journal....and yes it's the first result on google...because it's the ONLY result.

I want to see the results of the original experiment...how many in the control had positive results, how many were worse off...the RESULTS...not the general summation

“the group that was prayed for had better recoveries, then the people who weren’t prayed for…..” - Hummmmm isn’t really rocket science here. From what I’m seeing out on the net, this experiment has been done repeatedly with like results. So when you look at those percentages you came up with for your less than 5%, perhaps you could take into account ALL the numbers from the like experiments. Then again, I don’t know if all the controls are the same. Then you also have doctors that can rate progress differently and MD’s that miss diagnose.

"Had better", is subjective...to me it sounds like the control had imroved too. I want to see the figures, not read someones already biased opinion on it. The Author is a Minister, how can she be objective?

All the while skeptics are saying “definitely not prayer…..because I don’t think prayer works so it must be this, that, or the other thing…..”

Yes.. because we have doctors now...not Quacks, Snake oil, or Mystic Meg
(couldn't resist red highlight)

What does a rapist winning the jackpot have to do with ANYTHING that we’re talking about here? (rhetorical question)

The answer to that is obvious, but if you want it rhetorical, then so it shall be.

Edit: Ok...skeptic...you can have that spelling too You must be american...you do know that it's spelt COLOUR!!

 

[sicbeing]

Perhaps you are correct. However, I'm simply not going to let someone tell me that my faith is contrivied and completely fabricated from someone's imagination.

Just let it go, would jesus rant on forums about how real he is? People arent gonna read something you write and be astonished, truth is they already know about what youre talking about it and they've shot it down in the past, in regards to religion history. You ain't gonna tell them something they dont already know, same goes the other way around, bottom line is here we are arguing over what we both already know and how we both have accpet these facts the way they are going to be accepted years before this discussion on this forum, or any other.

if u know what i mean, i prolly worded that ass backwards.

 

[Swift]

Just let it go, would jesus rant on forums about how real he is? People arent gonna read something you write and be astonished, truth is they already know about what youre talking about it and they've shot it down in the past, in regards to religion history. You ain't gonna tell them something they dont already know, same goes the other way around, bottom line is here we are arguing over what we both already know and how we both have accpet these facts the way they are going to be accepted years before this discussion on this forum, or any other.

if u know what i mean, i prolly worded that ass backwards.

Well, Jesus was rather upset in the Temple when they were making a mockery of it by selling and trading. So, I'd have to say that he'd be doing something.

I get where you're coming from and that's cool. But again, why should I let someone run my faith through the mud just because they don't choose to believe in it?

 

[sicbeing]

well think back, was there ever a time where christanity wasnt being mocked, run thru the mud, made to be folkstales?

and also remember the origional point of this thred was not pointed at christanity specifically if i remember correctly, but at all religion.

 

[Swift]

well think back, was there ever a time where christanity wasnt being mocked, run thru the mud, made to be folkstales?

and also remember the origional point of this thred was not pointed at christanity specifically if i remember correctly, but at all religion.

Aye, but since Christianity is included as a religion.....

Edit: Ok...skeptic...you can have that spelling too You must be american...you do know that it's spelt COLOUR!!

In America is COLOR. We dropped the u a while ago.

 

[Famine]

Uh...so are you saying that there is a cure for AIDS?

Nope.

Oh, forget it. I could shout in your ear with a bullhorn and nothing would get through. I give up.

Yep.

I need to eat before I can even think of replying to that chunk of hooey - or even if it's worth it.

 

[Swift]

Nope.



Yep.

I need to eat before I can even think of replying to that chunk of hooey - or even if it's worth it.

Well, if you have to think about it, then it's probably not.

I just wanted to say something real quick. Some of you think I'm discounting medical science or sceince in general. And I'm not. I'm well aware that a skillful surgeon can be as much as a miracle as a tumor disappearing. But I'm acknowledging that there is something beyond our science at work in our world.

 

[sicbeing]

Aye, but since Christianity is included as a religion.....

.

yes, i know christianity is a religion, but like u said before you acted like it was all pointed at christianity, when its at all of them.


ok!? lol

anyways i tried stopping this thread but i failed, /Debate ON

 

[Swift]

yes, i know christianity is a religion, but like u said before you acted like it was all pointed at christianity, when its at all of them.


ok!? lol

anyways i tried stopping this thread but i failed, /Debate ON

Honestly, I'm not against what you are saying. I'm against the idea that God doesn't exist, the bible is just folk tales and miracles are impossible. That's what I'm arguing with. Not you

 

[Famine]

Honestly, I'm not against what you are saying. I'm against the idea that God doesn't exist, the bible is just folk tales and miracles are impossible. That's what I'm arguing with. Not you

Dictionary.com's #1 result:

Miracle: "An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God".

 

[Swift]

Dictionary.com's #1 result:

Miracle: "An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God".

Thanks, I appreciate that.

So are you saying that you can explain everything through science and your own knowledge?

 

[Famine]

Not at all.

Are you saying you can explain everything through "God's will"?

 

[sicbeing]

to explain everything through god is simple, through science is more difficult.

 

[Swift]

Not at all.

Are you saying you can explain everything through "God's will"?

Actually, yes. However, as you've said, it gets kinda tricky.

 

[smoovejas]

Dictionary.com's results for belief:


2 Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
3 Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

So, there are going to be different definitions as to what a miracle is.

 

[Famine]

Actually, yes. However, as you've said, it gets kinda tricky.

And that's the thing. Science and scientists get accused of all sorts of things like "playing God" and "claiming to know everything", when we recognise that there are things we don't YET know and things we can't YET explain. On the other hand, those betrothed to their religion say that they CAN explain everything, through the medium of a variety of very elderly storybooks.

There's an innate, fundamental hypocrisy in there, not to mention the occasional "Hah! Science can't explain THAT! That PROVES GOd exists!" when scientists say "We can't explain that right now."


Yet the religionists always trot out the same tired cliches - how can you explain this? How can you explain that? - without providing any background source of what it is we're being asked to explain, like GT4Mania and his burning horses. No, GT4Mania, I'm not saying anyone is a liar. I'm asking YOU to provide me with evidence of the existence of something YOU have asked me to explain. Can't provide it? Don't cite it.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

In America is COLOR. We dropped the u a while ago.

Je sais

to explain everything through god is simple, through science is more difficult.

Simple and convenient....sometimes reality is harder to understand.

But again, why should I let someone run my faith through the mud just because they don't choose to believe in it?

I'm not dragging it through the mud, I'm just putting it under some scrutiny. Sometimes it is good for you to question things and not blindly accept them.

Seeing Swift and sicbeing disagree about the definition of the Holy Ghost and what they believe God , the Spirit / father to be just reminds me of why you can't take the Bible literally.

Edit: how about all the different "flavours" of Christianity why do they all interpret the Bible so differently.
I believe that Swift is an Apostolic, but when I was looking up some things, I came across a site by Fundamentalists and all it did was say how Pentacostal Christians are the spawn of satan and all the preachers are corrupt!

Very strange...after all, there is only one bible, so why so many arguments?

 

[Swift]

Je sais


Simple and convenient....sometimes reality is harder to understand.


I'm not dragging it through the mud, I'm just putting it under some scrutiny. Sometimes it is good for you to question things and not blindly accept them.
.

Uh, I'm not really sure what you're doing by messing with the phonetics of Jesus. I'm guessing it's a joke.


I don't blindly accept them. I can prove them in my life and/or the word of God.
But you're right. There is nothing wrong with questioning God in a respectful manner as long as your willing to hear the answers.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Uh, I'm not really sure what you're doing by messing with the phonetics of Jesus. I'm guessing it's a joke.

Its French for "I know" ...I didn't even think about the phonetics

I'm willing to listen to answers, but I like quantative answers, not third party anecdotes.

I am more of a cynic than a sceptic.

 

[Swift]

Its French for "I know" ...I didn't even think about the phonetics

I'm willing to listen to answers, but I like quantative answers, not third party anecdotes.

I am more of a cynic than a sceptic.

Ok, so from that standpoint, what issues would you like to discuss?

 

[JacktheHat]

BTW, if you don't pray, then you don't believe in God.

How do you know he doesn't believe in God just because he doesn't pray? Or are you saying that unless he prays he won't be allowed into your little club?


As for the ongoing debate about 'faith healing', I think we need to introduce a new word.
Placebo.

 

[Pako]

How do you know he doesn't believe in God just because he doesn't pray? Or are you saying that unless he prays he won't be allowed into your little club?


As for the ongoing debate about 'faith healing', I think we need to introduce a new word.
Placebo.

No introduction needed, I already introduced it.

 

[Swift]

How do you know he doesn't believe in God just because he doesn't pray? Or are you saying that unless he prays he won't be allowed into your little club?
.

I don't want to get into doctrine and I probably shouldn't have said that. But how can you have a productive relationship with someone that you don't talk to? I'll leave it right there.

 

[JacktheHat]

But how can you have a productive relationship with someone that you don't talk to?

So are you saying that God personally talks to you?
He's willing to talk to individuals but won't address a group anymore?
Has he given up the burning bushes and is now only doing 'one to ones'?

 

[Swift]

So are you saying that God personally talks to you?
He's willing to talk to individuals but won't address a group anymore?
Has he given up the burning bushes and is now only doing 'one to ones'?

ROFL! First off, the Burning Bush was a one on one. The only person that saw it was Moses.

Sorry, anyway. This is not the thread for doctrine and I'm not trying to offend anyone. I apologize to sicbeing for the comment I made earlier.

 

[sicbeing]

ROFL! First off, the Burning Bush was a one on one. The only person that saw it was Moses.

Sorry, anyway. This is not the thread for doctrine and I'm not trying to offend anyone. I apologize to sicbeing for the comment I made earlier.

I am not even sure what you're talking about 👍 and even if you did make a comment i didnt take any offense to it, so no worries

 

[skicrush]

Not counting BEFORE Jesus was resurrected (when we walked around and taught groups all the time), I can only think of a couple of "group" addresses by either God or Jesus. They were almost ALL one to one. He spoke to the prophet, and the prophet let everyone know. In fact, the only "group" manifestation was to 11 apostles, and a week later with all 12 (Thomas present this time--yes, that's Doubting Thomas).

And its more like reading braile than turning on the TV, you dig? Its a feeling thing. But I agree with Swift--he'll let you know, if you're really looking and asking and receptive (feeling-wise--its burning in your heart type thing).

 

[Famine]

I SO hope with a comment like that you can read Braille.