Religion is contrived

[Swift]

I do not require belief to exist.

That's not what I asked. I simply asked to you believe that you got to where you are on your own talents with little to no help from anyone?

Incidentally, you just mentioned that Jesus contradicted himself in two consecutive sentences. The qualifier "with God all things are possible", you argue, negates his immediate prior sentence. In fact, it negates pretty much anything else in the Bible...

Then again, "Religion is contrived"...[/color][/b]

Hmm....no.

Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

It says very clearly. with men it is impossible. But with God all things are possible.

Abraham, David, Job and other prominent men in the bible were quite rich. Abraham had his own army. David was king of israel and Job was the richest man in the land. They were all great men of God.

Infact, Jesus sits on the throne of David.

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

So, Jesus didn't contradict himself at all. You need to follow God to get to heaven.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Sorry for the delay Swift, but I'm back on page 36 pointing out that your statement about Maryland schools is completely inaccurate

 

[Danoff]

Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Why does God care how much money I have in the bank?

 

[Swift]

Sorry for the delay Swift, but I'm back on page 36 pointing out that your statement about Maryland schools is completely inaccurate

actually, you're right. I was inaccurate in my original post. that is my fault. I should've said that they are not allowed to Thank God.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139304,00.html

http://www.blogpulse.com/04_11_23/link_11.html

Now, how are you going to celebrate and depict thanksgiving as a holiday and not thank God? The main reason they came over here was for RELIGOUS freedom. If the don't want to celebrate it fine. Then we need to recind Lincoln's order to make the fourth thursday of November thanksgiving and just drop the whole thing. On a national level anyway.

 

[Famine]

That's not what I asked. I simply asked to you believe that you got to where you are on your own talents with little to no help from anyone?

I know what you asked. And I told you, I DO NOT REQUIRE BELIEF to exist. I have asked you to stop putting the mantle of "belief" upon me. Yet you still persist.

 

[Swift]

I know what you asked. And I told you, I DO NOT REQUIRE BELIEF to exist. I have asked you to stop putting the mantle of "belief" upon me. Yet you still persist.

Ok, testy. Do you think that you've gotten all that you have through your own talents with no help?

You know, I had a similar reaction to one of your questions a little while back. Amazing how it can come full circle like that huh?

 

[Delirious]

famine, is there a god? (if you can, answer yes or no and why you say yes or no)

 

[Swift]

Famine doesn't believe there is a God. He's said that multiple times. The reason that I've gotten from what he's posted is that science disproves a God exists. There, I just wanted to say that so Famine didn't get upset.

 

[JParker]

famine, is there a god? (if you can, answer yes or no and why you say yes or no)

That would require a belief. Famine is bound and determined that he does not require belief to exist. But to answer yes or no and give an explanation would require a belief in yes, and it's reason, or no and a belief in why not.

I think he just simply says that he does not believe in God, he has the scientific proof, and doesn't feel he has to explain why. That is his "God" given right. Freedom of choice.

 

[Swift]

That would require a belief. Famine is bound and determined that he does not require belief to exist. But to answer yes or no and give an explanation would require a belief in yes, and it's reason, or no and a belief in why not.

I think he just simply says that he does not believe in God, he has the scientific proof, and doesn't feel he has to explain why. That is his "God" given right. Freedom of choice.

Hey, thanks. That first paragraph really explains his position quite well. Most enlightening and actually, kinda funny. Thanks again.

 

[Danoff]

famine, is there a god? (if you can, answer yes or no and why you say yes or no)

I think famine would answer that he doesn't know if there is a god - but that given the evidence, the probability is high that the god you pray to was made up. And given the evidence, there does not appear to be any kind of supreme being.

I think that's what famine would say - but I know it's what I would say.... were I to be asked that question.


Anyone want to answer my question about God's interest in my bank account?

 

[Duke]

...because having money gives you ways to satisfy desires, and as we all know, desires are evil.

That's what I would say, if anybody was asking me.

 

[Delirious]

well lets say famine has 1% of all the knowledge known in the entire universe (thats very very good, by the way)

could there, by chance, in the 99% of the knowledge you dont know there could by chance be a higher being of some sort or kind? a science that none of us knows that disproves the theory that a higher being cannot exist

 

[Swift]

...because having money gives you ways to satisfy desires, and as we all know, desires are evil.

That's what I would say, if anybody was asking me.

Uh...no actually. Because 1) Psalms 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

and 2) 1Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

So as you can see. God is very much about giving you what you desire. However, loving money is evil. Not having, but hording. So that's why God is concerned with how we manage our finances.

 

[Pako]

I think famine would answer that he doesn't know if there is a god - but that given the evidence, the probability is high that the god you pray to was made up. And given the evidence, there does not appear to be any kind of supreme being.

I think that's what famine would say - but I know it's what I would say.... were I to be asked that question.


Anyone want to answer my question about God's interest in my bank account?

Are we talking about simple or compound interest?

 

[PS]

That would require a belief. Famine is bound and determined that he does not require belief to exist. But to answer yes or no and give an explanation would require a belief in yes, and it's reason, or no and a belief in why not.

I think he just simply says that he does not believe in God, he has the scientific proof, and doesn't feel he has to explain why. That is his "God" given right. Freedom of choice.

Actually I think Famine would be the first person on this website to go out and find everything he can to disprove the existence of god, and has done so many times with loads of overwhelming information. So much in fact, that it just completely obliterates any chance of rebuttle and thus goes ignored.

 

[PS]

Uh...no actually. Because 1) Psalms 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

and 2) 1Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

So as you can see. God is very much about giving you what you desire. However, loving money is evil. Not having, but hording. So that's why God is concerned with how we manage our finances.

What if you're saving up to buy something? Or need it to retire later? Or if it's a "just in case" lump of cash? Is that bad too?

 

[Famine]

Do you think that you've gotten all that you have through your own talents with no help?

Without any form of "help"? No, of course not. People have "helped" me by educating me. Without an unseen hand pushing matters into its own, indescribable, ineffable preferred course? Yes.

could there, by chance, in the 99% of the knowledge you dont know there could by chance be a higher being of some sort or kind? a science that none of us knows that disproves the theory that a higher being cannot exist

I've already said, many times that the chance of there being "higher" forms of life in the Universe is 1.

My answer to the question "Is there a God?" (or god, your choice) would not require ANY belief, unless the answer was "yes".

 

[skicrush]

I get busy and go to luch without checking in, and we're off in lala land. An eye of a needle was a gate just tall enough to get a camel through--but not a camel with it's load in place still. The idea here was that the camel had to be unloaded before it could pass through.

Reminds me of a joke. An angel visits a man one night, and tells he has good news and bad news. The good news is that since he's been SO good, he can actually take a suitcase with him when he dies. With whatever he wants in it. The bad news is that he's to die the following night. Well, the man gets his things in order the next day, and the next night, the angel shows up for him. The suitcase is SO heavy, even the angel has trouble with it. They fly on up, and as they try to walk through the pearly gates, Peter stops them and says, "What's this? Don't you know you can't take it with you?" Well the angel shows Peter the note signed by God that says he was SO good he could bring a suitcase with him, and he just shrugs his shoulders and says, "OK, sure. What have you got in there, anyway?" Well, the angel looks at the man, and sets the suitcase down. The man tells Peter, "I brought the most valuable things I could fit into my suitcase." He goes over and opens it, revealing dozens of shiny gold bricks. Peter looks down, and with a puzzled look on his face, says just one word in a confused, questioning sort of way. "Pavement?"

 

[JParker]

Without any form of "help"? No, of course not. People have "helped" me by educating me. Without an unseen hand pushing matters into its own, indescribable, ineffable preferred course? Yes.



I've already said, many times that the chance of there being "higher" forms of life in the Universe is 1.

My answer to the question "Is there a God?" (or god, your choice) would not require ANY belief, unless the answer was "yes".

So, you do not "believe" in God?

 

[skicrush]

I have that same question that I just realized Famine never answered. He argued that the bible says God is not "of" this universe, which it doesn't actually. And the alpha and Omega thing refers to Jehovah, or Jesus, who obviously DID have a beginning, since God the Father created Him as his Son. So there's no leg to stand on arguing that God has existed for an infinite amount of time before the creation of this universe. Just because my mom's always been there for me doesn't mean she's ALWAYS been there. Maybe he's just been around so long that infinity is the only way to describe it. I mean, if the odds are 1, what are the odds it happened in another universe, and that He created THIS universe? What's not to believe?

 

[Tacet_Blue]

The reason that I've gotten from what he's posted is that science disproves a God exists. There, I just wanted to say that so Famine didn't get upset.

I wouldn't say that science disproves that God exists, any more than it can prove that he does exist.
Science can however, provide a rational explanation for the things that we observe, without the intervention of a supernatural being.

So, you do not "believe" in God?

I have no desire, or need to believe or not believe in your God.

I'd rather believe in the tooth fairy or Santa Claus
...btw GTmaniac, science cannot explain how Santa Claus can deliver present to every house in the space of one night...or seriously, why it is that gravity is so weak...

Just for background, my Uncle is a Christian minister in Scotland, the whole of my mothers side of the family are very religious (Swift...if you are as bad at spelling as me..use a spellchecker you spelt it religeous earlier )
I used to get dragged to Church every Sunday when I lived up there...all I can remember is the coldness of the Church..the rumble of hunger in my belly, the look of desperation on the faces of the flock, and the Preacher going on and on about what you can't do. That and my attempts to stop yawning out loud

 

[Swift]

What if you're saving up to buy something? Or need it to retire later? Or if it's a "just in case" lump of cash? Is that bad too?

Like I said. The love or lust for money is the root of all evil. Obviously, saving for a comfortable retirement, a needed appliance, a home, or a vacation is fine. The challenge come up when that is your obsession. When money and the amassing thereof is all that there is for you. That is when you have issues with God.

Just for background, my Uncle is a Christian minister in Scotland, the whole of my mothers side of the family are very religious (Swift...if you are as bad at spelling as me..use a spellchecker you spelt it religeous earlier )
I used to get dragged to Church every Sunday when I lived up there...all I can remember is the coldness of the Church..the rumble of hunger in my belly, the look of desperation on the faces of the flock, and the Preacher going on and on about what you can't do. That and my attempts to stop yawning out loud

I remember chuch like that. I can certainly understand the frustration. My church is far from that. But I can see where you're coming from.

 

[Famine]

I have that same question that I just realized Famine never answered. He argued that the bible says God is not "of" this universe, which it doesn't actually. And the alpha and Omega thing refers to Jehovah, or Jesus, who obviously DID have a beginning, since God the Father created Him as his Son. So there's no leg to stand on arguing that God has existed for an infinite amount of time before the creation of this universe. Just because my mom's always been there for me doesn't mean she's ALWAYS been there. Maybe he's just been around so long that infinity is the only way to describe it. I mean, if the odds are 1, what are the odds it happened in another universe, and that He created THIS universe? What's not to believe?

I'd like to be the first to say "Huh?", although I suspect I said it before.

There's no coherency here. You're just flowing from one half-baked partial understanding to the next. What actually IS your question?


Tacet - We can, now, explain why gravity is so comparatively weak. The answer lies in M-theory. Just an update for you.

 

[skicrush]

OK, sure. My question is, "You agree there are more advanced beings out there. Why is it that you don't believe in a being so advanced it could create it's own universe? In effect, make this universe, and be the God of it?" That's my question.

PS--I'm going home for the evening--I may not see you response until tomorrow morning--but that doesn't mean I'm not interested!

 

[Swift]

I'd like to be the first to say "Huh?", although I suspect I said it before.

There's no coherency here. You're just flowing from one half-baked partial understanding to the next. What actually IS your question?


Tacet - We can, now, explain why gravity is so comparatively weak. The answer lies in M-theory. Just an update for you.

I know you're going to get mad. But what they are asking is if you believe in God or not. Either way you answer will say you have some form of belief. So, you have refrained from answering the question since you've previously stated you have no form of belief in your existance.

I honestly feel it's a fair question, but it's a free country so don't answer if you don't want to.

 

[Danoff]

I know you're going to get mad. But what they are asking is if you believe in God or not. Either way you answer will say you have some form of belief.

I'm going to volunteer an answer again even though this question was not directed at me. One page later, same question...


I do not believe God does or does not exist (no belief). Given the evidence, it seems improbable that a supreme being exists or that that surpreme being is the one you pray to.


In otherwords the evidence does not suggest that God exists. It isn't a belief, it's a probability.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Tacet - We can, now, explain why gravity is so comparatively weak. The answer lies in M-theory. Just an update for you.

Thanks,
I didn't recognise the name M-Theory, but after a quick google, I find that it was formerly known as String Theory...that I have heard of, and I believe that Gravity is thought to be leaking from another dimension hence it's relative weakness...although there is still some uncertainty about this...sorry way off topic there

Back on topic....er...em....nope I can't think of anything, sorry

 

[PS]

OK, sure. My question is, "You agree there are more advanced beings out there. Why is it that you don't believe in a being so advanced it could create it's own universe? In effect, make this universe, and be the God of it?" That's my question.

PS--I'm going home for the evening--I may not see you response until tomorrow morning--but that doesn't mean I'm not interested!

Just to clarify, can people either put "P.S." as their postscript for future use please? Thanks. It gets really confusing sometimes.

 

[Pako]

I'm going to volunteer an answer again even though this question was not directed at me. One page later, same question...


I do not believe God does or does not exist (no belief). Given the evidence, it seems improbable that a supreme being exists or that that surpreme being is the one you pray to.


In otherwords the evidence does not suggest that God exists. It isn't a belief, it's a probability.

I would disagree and say that the probability of the existence of intelligent design is greater than random chance given the complexity of our universe and how everything is so tightly intertwined. This connection that appears to be so closely dominant to our existence is probably why evolution looks so believable. Within our planet alone, and looking at the different species that are around us, not to mention all the unknown, or undiscovered species that are still out there, it is greatly improbable that we came from the same single celled organism that just evolved 'differently' for the sake of survival.

If intelligent design IS behind our existence and the existence of everything else, this "connection" also makes sense as well.

But I must say that when your talking of probability of such magnitude, math is too simplistic to try and solve the mystery to leave it to probability wouldn't you say?