Religion is contrived

[Tacet_Blue]

"There are more advanced life forms out there." (Not a direct quote, but the gist of it.)

But he can't seem to admit that one of those advanced life forms may have created us.

As has been already stated...we were not created...yawn.

But just to go along with your little theory...who then created the advanced life form. Who created the creator of the creator...etc

What we have here is infinite regression. You can't seem to admit the basic flaw in your reasoning

About the aliens...if God created man in his own image, what would the discovery of an alien species do in terms of your interpretation of the bible?

 

[skicrush]

Sorry. Geez, chill out. I'll use the innocuous "you think" from now on. And you think us "religious fanatics" are touchy! And what concepts are you talking about that I don't understand? What laws of the universe do you think God routinely breaks?

I'm not even going to touch the "original sin" line--again, that's a Catholic thing.

Tacet, I think there ARE aliens out there--or at least, extra-terrestrials (from our point of view). But I think they look like we do--I think God has created other worlds, and the people on those other worlds look like us, and have the same God as we do. And I don't think we'll ever get a visit. But if we do, I don't think they'll be buggers. They'll be Han Solo, sans Chewbacca.

 

[JacktheHat]

Sorry. Geez, chill out. I'll use the innocuous "you think" from now on. And you think us "religious fanatics" are touchy! And what concepts are you talking about that I don't understand? What laws of the universe do you think God routinely breaks?

I'm not even going to touch the "original sin" line--again, that's a Catholic thing.

So Catholocism is wrong but Mormonism is right? That's going to be a fun war...

Found an interesting website for you clicky-clicky

 

[Swift]

About the aliens...if God created man in his own image, what would the discovery of an alien species do in terms of your interpretation of the bible?

Not a thing. The bible talks about this world. Should other life forms visit this world, they will look like whatever God wanted them to look like. They may be more or less advanced.

Also, I was thinking of the image of God and what famine said about our eyes and senses and what not.

Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Google's first definition for image:
A reproduction of the form of a person or object, especially a sculptured likeness.

The image of God is Jesus Christ. Jesus didn't have super sight, hearing or smell as a man. He was the manifistaion of God in the flesh. But we all looked a little like Jesus in our form.

Edit:
So going back to Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

What is God's image? Jesus Christ.

 

[skicrush]

Well, Jack, not that you'd have any room to speak there, but this isn't the "which religion is right" thread. And your website is fairly benign in comparison to the extermination order issued by the state of Missouri. In any case, I suppose you've never heard the term "protestant." Most Christian religions have differences withthe Catholics. To base your disbelief in God on the shoulders of the Catholics is not fair, to you or them.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Not a thing. The bible talks about this world. Should other life forms visit this world, they will look like whatever God wanted them to look like. They may be more or less advanced.

I have to admire your ability to create new passages for the bible whenever you see fit

So you are saying that God created aliens...ok....so where exactly in the Bible does it say, and God created aliens on day 8....

I think you'll find it doesn't mention them, so how come you have the authority to say that they will be created how God wanted, or is that how the Bible is written...people just make things up

Edit: you didn't say in Gods image, you said how he wanted them to look like, my mistake. At least you acknowledge that they certainly won't look like us

 

[Touring Mars]

Google's first definition for image:
A reproduction of the form of a person or object, especially a sculptured likeness.

The image of God is Jesus Christ. Jesus didn't have super sight, hearing or smell as a man. He was the manifistaion of God in the flesh. But we all looked a little like Jesus in our form.

If Jesus Christ is the image of God, then God looks like a human being... but where do the ancestors of man come into all of this? More significantly, where does that leave our predecessors? The human species, of which Jesus Christ was a recent example, will not look like this forever... the current image of man is merely a snapshot in the long and complex evolutionary history of our species... Maybe instead of 'God made man in his own image', it should be 'Man made God in his own image'...?

 

[skicrush]

WEll, Tacet, your kids will look like you. Why should God's kids look like wookies or buggers? Now, as Swift said, He may have other creations out there, but kids pretty much look like their parents, and I think it is only logical that God's children will look like Him, no matter where they live.

 

[JParker]

Good to see you Swift. I was waiting all morning to read some of your posts.

 

[Swift]

I have to admire your ability to create new passages for the bible whenever you see fit

So you are saying that God created aliens...ok....so where exactly in the Bible does it say, and God created aliens on day 8....

I think you'll find it doesn't mention them, so how come you have the authority to say that they will be created how God wanted, or is that how the Bible is written...people just make things up

Edit: you didn't say in Gods image, you said how he wanted them to look like, my mistake. At least you acknowledge that they certainly won't look like us

What I'm saying it that I do believe that my God is the God of the universe. However, as far as life goes, I hold it true to THIS WORLD only. It's beyond obvious that there is other life out there. I don't have a problem with that. But that's not what the bible or my faith is about.

BTW, I haven't a clue what they may look like. They may look just like us. Who knows.

Good to see you Swift. I was waiting all morning to read some of your posts.

Thanks!

 

[Famine]

Sorry. Geez, chill out. I'll use the innocuous "you think" from now on. And you think us "religious fanatics" are touchy! And what concepts are you talking about that I don't understand? What laws of the universe do you think God routinely breaks?

Yes, since it's much easier to paint your "opponent" as "angry" than it is to come up with coherent responses

I assure you, I am chilled. I am Famine. I am always chilled.


If God is "all-powerful", as YOU have said, than He breaks every single law, all at once.

I notice you dodged the "perfect" rebuttal - and Swift has side-stepped past the "root of all evil" monologue.

 

[Touring Mars]

WEll, Tacet, your kids will look like you. Why should God's kids look like wookies or buggers? Now, as Swift said, He may have other creations out there, but kids pretty much look like their parents, and I think it is only logical that God's children will look like Him, no matter where they live.

The reason kids look like their parents is because they possess their genes... but the reason they don't look exactly like their parents is because they possess genes from both parents, plus mutations that are uniquely their own (and for many other reasons)...

But just as it's entirely possible to look back at the genetic history of your family, you can also see the genetic ancestry of your species. The species that we originated from can be traced back to the first vertebrates that look alot more like fish that humans, and that species can be traced back to it's ancestors, and so on and so forth... so, if God created man in his own image, you would have to stipulate exactly when God created Man, because it would look different every time... a more rational explanation is that Man created God as a concept at some point in our history, and when Jesus popped up 2000 years ago, he was 'chosen' to represent God in human form... but to say that God looks like a present day human, or to assume that because we are made in the image of God that we are somehow special as a species, is simply ridiculous...

 

[Tacet_Blue]

WEll, Tacet, your kids will look like you. Why should God's kids look like wookies or buggers? Now, as Swift said, He may have other creations out there, but kids pretty much look like their parents, and I think it is only logical that God's children will look like Him, no matter where they live.

skicrush, do you really think that all aliens will look like us. Look at the diversity of life on this planet alone...is your imagination really that lacking. You are funny

If you bother to read Swifts post again, you will notice at least he has covered himself by saying that they will be made however God wants, and not just in his image.

If you ask some Christians the same question, they will tell you that there cannot be any life out there, as we are Gods children and the garden of eden was on earth...no where else. Glad to see at least some 20th century thinking has fought its way in there Swift As for skicrush...

 

[Pako]

Perhaps we should start a new thread or get back on topic. In fact I think we already have a "Does God exist?" thread. If not, we really should. Or we could just merge this thread with the "Creation vs. Evolution" thread.

Once again it appears that Religion is being used synonymously with God which is something we should not do. Religion is NOT God.

So lets try to stay closer to the topic shall we?

 

[Swift]

Perhaps we should start a new thread or get back on topic. In fact I think we already have a "Does God exist?" thread. If not, we really should. Or we could just merge this thread with the "Creation vs. Evolution" thread.

Once again it appears that Religion is being used synonymously with God which is something we should not do. Religion is NOT God.

So lets try to stay closer to the topic shall we?

If that's the case, and it is. Then we certainly need a different venue to discuss these spiritual concepts.

There is no doubt that as man has had it, Religion IS contrived.

 

[Pako]

skicrush, do you really think that all aliens will look like us. Look at the diversity of life on this planet alone...is your imagination really that lacking. You are funny

If you bother to read Swifts post again, you will notice at least he has covered himself by saying that they will be made however God wants, and not just in his image.

If you ask some Christians the same question, they will tell you that there cannot be any life out there, as we are Gods children and the garden of eden was on earth...no where else. Glad to see at least some 20th century thinking has fought its way in there Swift As for skicrush...

I've wondered if Jesus' parable of the lost sheep signifies Earth and the rest of the flock signifies other worlds. Have you seen Contact? Great movie and addresses that idea very well I thought. Ok, sorry...off topic but in response to Tacet's post.

 

[skicrush]

While God's kids are dreations fo God, all creations of God aren't God's kids. I assume that God's children will be the most advanced form of life on any given planet, and therefore, anyone advanced enough to visit will look like us. I never said there weren't other varieties of animals on other planets--just that the aliens that would visit us are the most advanced beings on their planet (God's children, made in his image like us).

Famine, I meant nothing more than "you think" when I said "you believe." How can you pretend to be SO smart and not see that, much less take offense at it?

To hit your "perfect" question, I don't see how God is punishing those who never had the chance to believe. http://lds.about.com/library/weekly/aa112902d.htm If that's not what you're referring to, then I can only suppose you're griping about my grandfather missing his chance to buy land in the middle of the vegas strip for $.21 / acre. And my pain and suffering at paying for his mistake. And why that is God's fault is beyond me.

 

[Pako]

If that's the case, and it is. Then we certainly need a different venue to discuss these spiritual concepts.

There is no doubt that as man has had it, Religion IS contrived.

I totally agree!

 

[Tacet_Blue]

I've wondered if Jesus' parable of the lost sheep signifies Earth and the rest of the flock signifies other worlds. Have you seen Contact? Great movie and addresses that idea very well I thought. Ok, sorry...off topic but in response to Tacet's post.

Jesus and spaceships...now your going too far

About the back on topic thing...this thread is about religion, and not just Christianity or the Bible

 

[JParker]

Just when I was really having fun ya'll decided to get back on topic. The whole alien thing was a riot.

 

[Pako]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1645687&postcount=617

Almost 200 posts ago, but yea!

 

[Swift]

I totally agree!

Pako, I've looked through the opinions forum and the closest thing I can come up with is the Atheist vs Religion thread. And again, that's based on religious doctrine. Can we get a thread going that just talks about God and spirituality or the existense of God?

Swift: I DO like this concept...



The root of ALL evil. Let's set that up against the Ten Commandments, shall we?

So, the love of money is the ROOT of ALL EVIL, yet only 2 of the Ten Commandments are directed against it. Then again, I suppose "the love of money is the root of 0.2 of all evil" isn't quite as catchy.


However, this does make me wonder some more. Does "the love of money is the root of all evil" combined with the Ten Commandments cover the entire panoply of all possible sin?

If so, I guess torturers, rapists (as long as both they and their victims aren't married) and paedophiles must be in it just for the cash, since they aren't covered by Moses' ouvre? Mind you, I'm not seeing the whole "gays are the Devil" line in there either.
One line that DID catch my eye was "I the LORD thy God am a jealous God". Made me laugh out loud anyway.[/color][/b]

Google definition of jealous: Intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity; autocratic: a jealous God.

So that takes care of that point. Just like all husbands should be jealous of their wives and vice versa.

Once again, you pull part of a scripture out of context.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

This is talking to the church saying that evil will enter the church/hearts of people through the love of money. Now, where does a love of money come from? Lust of the flesh(get more stuff), Lust of the eyes(looking good), and the pride of life(I'm better then Mr Jones).

1John 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

So, there you are. Any questions?

 

[Aphrodite]

Part of me believes Danoff, but I have been a Christian for quite some time, a struggling Christian at that. It is very easy to scare someone in the dark than in the light meaning: It is very easy to influence one neutral person when the truth cannot be seen. If all of us were in a bright room we would have definite answers as to rather there is a God or not. We live in a mysterious world, and thus cannot make such statements.
I cannot make such statements, and therefor would hate to bring forth any oppressive and/ or aggressive opinions to people. I would like to issue the statement at hand however, that just because we cannot see things in literal point of view, does not mean it is not there. There could be very much an almighty God looking out for us from a distance. I have indeed thought of this very thing that Danoff said in the introductive statement that man could have very well possibly created a death credit value in order to obey rules and morals. I myself have thought of the following questions:

{1. If God is almighty that would mean he would know what the future is automatically (life must be mechanical for him) so why does he want to know who his true followers are by giving us this test of his absence with the strength of faith? Couldn't he just know and automatically grant heaven and hell to the predicted people?

{2. Christians say certain prophecies must happen before the great end, but of course things will happen. I am pretty sure if I wrote down that a lady by the name of Emily Rita Bowen will be murdered by a Hungarian Police officer I am pretty sure given the long time ahead things of this will happen, that an Emily Bowen will be born and there are thousands of Hungarian police officers everywhere!

{3. The Bible describes heaven as a feeling of utter perfection but if you or friends do not have the faith guess who is missing out, and if you make it to heaven but your family does not (they are in the rath of hell) how can you feel so perfect knowing that they are suffering the pain of all pains while you're up in the milk and creme?

{4. When animals die they are not human in God's form and thus becomes dust to dust. But I love my hamster Sniffles, and my budgie Lucky I want to see them too when I die!

{5. We will live in paradise serving the Lord. Serving the Lord? Who said serving felt good? You mean all of us is going to pamper a being that is already powerful enough. All he has to do is speak, and it happens but he still needs us to pamper him!? That is not paradise in my eyes. That's like going to the Ritz Carlton to give your bikini clad grandma a back massage without going for a dip in the pool. =(

{6. God says he is the epitome of forgiving, then why is there any being in hell for that matter? I am pretty sure that if a being went down to hell he would immediately withdraw his statement and say: Oh God you do exist forgive my ignorance! Then he should go to heaven. Regardless of what happens you embrace with both arms that is what forgiveness is. God doesn't seem so forgiving if he ignores the screams from the fire below.

{7. God is everywhere all at once, he knows the count of every single hair on everyone’s head, and he is with you always assigning a guardian angel. Why would he need secretarial guardians if he can do all and be all himself? Why do some people fail in life when God himself says everyone on earth has a unique purpose?


***ANSWER: **** I believe choice is something God does not want to violate. Choice is in everything we do all the time. We chose to eat the apple, we hid from God thus we hide from the truth all the time. Those little intuitions, signs, and sometimes prophetic dreams that I, myself would like to believe that dreams are some mental screen saver. We wanted freedom, and independence and thus that is exactly what he gave us.
PLUS HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE ARE ASKING QUESTIONS THAT ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO ANSWER ONE SIDEDLY? HOW DO WE KNOW THAT OUR INTELLIGENCE IS PROGRAMMED JUST ENOUGH TO PONDER SUCH THINGS, BUT IS PERFECTLY BALANCED BY STUPIDITY WHICH CREATES UN-ANSWERED AND FRUSTRATIVE MYSTERY. Would you assume that the smartest man in the world can answer a math question faster than you using your minds? Probably yes, so how do you know that with your mind you are programmed for slower smaller debates? God is a big topic, can our minds handle it? Most probably not. Thus, we cannot judge or say for sure. Perhaps our minds should not question things beyond our uhmmm :::ahem:::: minds??? 💡

 

[JParker]

Perhaps our minds should not question things beyond our uhmmm :::ahem:::: minds??? 💡

Amen. That's actually in the Bible somewhere. Swift?

 

[Tacet_Blue]

It is very easy to scare someone in the dark than in the light meaning: It is very easy to influence one neutral person when the truth cannot be seen. If all of us were in a bright room we would have definite answers as to rather there is a God or not. We live in a mysterious world, and thus cannot make such statements.

Mysterious world? I don't find it mysterious.

Humans are unique amongst animals, in that we know that one day we shall die. No other animal understands this concept. There is a fear attached to this understanding, that one day we shall not exist, and the question is, what was it all for.
Some people cannot live with the idea that their life is meaningless, they feel they must have some purpose, otherwise why carry on. Up steps religion, they all speak of some kind of after life, ranging from nirvana, reincarnation to heaven. This provides a sense of comfort, and people are always willing to accept good news.

You say it is easier to scare someone in the dark, well it is all the more easy to scare them when they are already afraid. Afraid that they will die and become nothing.
It is very easy to accept a theory that means you will be reunited with your loved ones in another life...and it is with this hook that the exploitation starts. You see the rules and dogma can be attached to admittance to heaven...very powerful stuff

To denounce someone's religion is to take away that comfort, they may remember again the fear of dying and becoming dust, as you can see here, people get quite passionate when defending their chosen religion.

Myself and others don't need one I have no problem at all with being eaten by worms or turned to ash, it won't bother me, I'll be dead

[...snip...]Perhaps our minds should not question things beyond our uhmmm :::ahem:::: minds??? 💡

It's a good thing that we don't all think like that

The aeroplane, the automobile the electric light bulb were all, at one time, beyond our minds...

Edit: See Pako, that was even on topic

 

[Swift]

It's a good thing that we don't all think like that

The aeroplane, the automobile the electric light bulb were all, at one time, beyond our minds...

Edit: See Pako, that was even on topic

They were ideas beyond some people's realm of thought. But not out of the range of our minds. Infinity, that is something that is out of the range of our minds. As you've stated, we die. Meaning our lives and everything about us, except or soul, is finite. How can we understand infinite living in a finite body in a finite world?

I don't claim to totally understand God. But I do have a fairly good grasp on the situation. Nobody can fully understand God and the ways of God. That's just not going to happen. But I do strive for greater understanding.

Can't wait to here Famine's response to this one.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

They were ideas beyond some people's realm of thought. But not out of the range of our minds. Infinity, that is something that is out of the range of our minds. As you've stated, we die. Meaning our lives and everything about us, except or soul, is finite. How can we understand infinite living in a finite body in a finite world?

I don't claim to totally understand God. But I do have a fairly good grasp on the situation. Nobody can fully understand God and the ways of God. That's just not going to happen. But I do strive for greater understanding.

Can't wait to here Famine's response to this one.

Before those things were invented, they could not even be imagined.

You started off fairly well, but then you had to slip in a soul reference...not only that but an immortal one.
Your soul, your ego, your sense of self, your spirit, your Chi, whatever you want to call it...will die with you...sorry if that's news

That is exactly what I'm talking about, this seed is planted in all religions. The promise of everlasting life. Why oh why is it so important to some people, they just won't let it go. You have one life...don't mess it up thinking you'll get another chance

BTW living forever has no appeal to me whatsoever...after less than 500 years I would want to die of boredom...except I wouldn't be able to...cause I'd be dead...aaaggghhh

 

[Swift]

Before those things were invented, they could not even be imagined.

You started off fairly well, but then you had to slip in a soul reference...not only that but an immortal one.
Your soul, your ego, your sense of self, your spirit, your Chi, whatever you want to call it...will die with you...sorry if that's news

That is exactly what I'm talking about, this seed is planted in all religions. The promise of everlasting life. Why oh why is it so important to some people, they just won't let it go. You have one life...don't mess it up thinking you'll get another chance

BTW living forever has no appeal to me whatsoever...after less than 500 years I would want to die of boredom...except I wouldn't be able to...cause I'd be dead...aaaggghhh

Before they were invented they couldn't be imagined? come on. How long has man being trying to fly? as far back as DiVinci at least right? But nobody "invented" it until the Wright brothers. That doesn't mean that the right brothers were they only ones smart enogh to think of flight.

Oh, you BELIEVE that you have no soul. I can prove it to you through scripture and you can kinda disprove it through science. But that's your belief. It is a belief because as far as you and some others are concerned there is no scientific evidence to prove it.

And I don't think I'll get another chance. This is it, but it's my oppurtunity to go to heaven or hell. Pretty simple concept really.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Before they were invented they couldn't be imagined? come on. How long has man being trying to fly? as far back as DiVinci at least right? But nobody "invented" it until the Wright brothers. That doesn't mean that the right brothers were they only ones smart enogh to think of flight.

We don't have to argue over every small detail.
Your missing my point. Its easy to imagine it now after it has been invented.
Divincis drawings were based on birds (incidentally his machine never flew )...he didn't have pressurised cockpits or even an aerofoil. Before that people thought that a flying machine had to flap its wings...like the birds...what's that story about the guy flying too close to the sun...anyway....what I'm saying, as you well know, is that we are lucky that we do indeed have innovators that are not afraid to think outside the box.

You can prove that you have got a soul through a book...now you are making me laugh

Heaven and hell...always the afterlife...the premise of all religions.

 

[Aphrodite]

Tacet Oh no! LoL I did not mean to state by any angle that one should not go beyond their minds meaning their knowledge to solve, and grow. God made us for THIS exact purpose, a purpose I am very proud of when I fly on Jet Blue lol
What I meant was; for example: I don't know YOU other than what you just told me. I could spend my entire life with you and still not know much about who you are. I cannot say if their are aliens or not. I do NOT mean however that we cannot build a better and faster machine that could take us to any other solar system and find out if there are aliens. Just as much as I would never protest an invention in the realm of the mind if and when we invent a object that can tell us once and for all if there is life after death, heck I would even fund such a campaign!

The difference: Realm of thought is the ponderings of God (indefinite) realm of minds (the technology and growth of our world today) LoL Perhaps I worded it wrong, that's why I am not a copy editor 💡