Religion is contrived

[Swift]

We don't have to argue over every small detail.
Your missing my point. Its easy to imagine it now after it has been invented.
Divincis drawings were based on birds (incidentally his machine never flew )...he didn't have pressurised cockpits or even an aerofoil. Before that people thought that a flying machine had to flap its wings...like the birds...what's that story about the guy flying too close to the sun...anyway....what I'm saying, as you well know, is that we are lucky that we do indeed have innovators that are not afraid to think outside the box.

You can prove that you have got a soul through a book...now you are making me laugh

Heaven and hell...always the afterlife...the premise of all religions.

OK, I've got one. Now I'm sure famine will correct me if I'm off my rocker. But look at Beaming(like star trek) Technically that's very possible. But nobody has done it yet. The same with interstellar travel. Very possible and within the "imagination" of humans today. We're just waiting for the science to perfect such technolgies.

So, how do you prove that you don't have a soul?

 

[Danoff]

So, how do you prove that you don't have a soul?

I need proof to believe, not disbelieve. I don't believe things I don't have evidence to support.

 

[Aphrodite]

.....I like blue ham and orange eggs why won't you guys believe me!?!?

 

[Famine]

I don't see how God is punishing those who never had the chance to believe. http://lds.about.com/library/weekly/aa112902d.htm If that's not what you're referring to, then I can only suppose you're griping about my grandfather missing his chance to buy land in the middle of the vegas strip for $.21 / acre. And my pain and suffering at paying for his mistake. And why that is God's fault is beyond me.

Exodus 20.


Swift... Man... That's some awesome stuff right there. "The love of money is the root of all evil" doesn't mean that the love of money is the root of all evil? You guys can read ANYTHING you feel like into any biblical passage. It's awesome - almost brianwashing, but far, far beyond it.

Dictionary.com definitions of "jealous":

1. Fearful or wary of being supplanted; apprehensive of losing affection or position.
2.
1. Resentful or bitter in rivalry; envious: jealous of the success of others.
2. Inclined to suspect rivalry.
3. Having to do with or arising from feelings of envy, apprehension, or bitterness: jealous thoughts.
4. Vigilant in guarding something: We are jealous of our good name.
5. Intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity; autocratic: a jealous God.

Fearful or wary of being supplanted. Apprehensive of losing affection or position. Resentful or bitter in rivalry. Envious. Jealous of the success of others. Inclined to suspect rivalry...

Why does God, who wrote the Bible through men, remember, constantly refer to Himself as "Thy Lord" and "a God", rather than "The Lord" and "God"? Surely if He was the only God, He'd let people know about it, rather than telling them he's "their" Lord and a God and they should ignore all the others in case he gets jealous of them? Or could it be that He is in fact a construct of men trying to form their own religion?

 

[skicrush]

Exodus 20.

Who said everyone that's never read them will go to hell?
Romans 4:15

 

[Famine]

I'm sorry, you seem to have read whatever you want again...

My response was to THIS question:

I don't see how God is punishing those who never had the chance to believe.

Your answer is in Exodus 20:5 (at least in the King James "Version" - and never a more telling word was used)

I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

This has nothing to do with reading the Bible, only that the answer to your question is located within the Bible.

Then again, it probably doesn't mean what's written down or something.

 

[skicrush]

Yeah, so? It's a law of nature, too. What you do affects others. If your parents were athiests, there's a good chance it will take a couple generations before anyone in your family tries to find God again. "Visiting the iniquity of the fathers" isn't a "Go to Jail" card. To explain a little further. You could call it crack whore/ crack baby syndrome. The Isrealites were in the middle of the desert, having just fled Egypt (and their wicked traditions), and they had a lot of the old traditions of the Egyptians that Moses and God were trying to to get them to stop doing. And old habits die hard. They had to wander around the desert for 40 years after the golden calf incident, waiting for the older dogs that couldn't learn new tricks to die off, basically. The problem was, they still passed on a lot of their bad habits to their kids. Those kids, though old enough to know better, still had to be held responsible for their own actions. If their parents hadn't been iniquitous, they wouldn't have had the problems. But sin is sin, no matter whose fault it was, and so God had to punish the children, even though they were not totally at fault. Is that such a CRAZY explanation?

 

[Famine]

Yes.

God says that if you hate him, he'll punish you, your children, their children and their children. Using today's population averages, that's 14 people punished because one person is atheist, over ONE HUNDRED years. Using older population averages, that'd be nearer 40 people punished because one person is atheist, over just about 80 years.

How's THAT for mind control? Believe in me or my followers will punish your entire family for four generations and a century.


Nevertheless, I'm not here to justify my response, or clarify it. You asked me what made me think God was punishing great-grand-children and I gave you the answer straight out of YOUR holy book.

 

[Pako]

Yes.

God says that if you hate him, he'll punish you, your children, their children and their children. Using today's population averages, that's 14 people punished because one person is atheist, over ONE HUNDRED years. Using older population averages, that'd be nearer 40 people punished because one person is atheist, over just about 80 years.

How's THAT for mind control? Believe in me or my followers will punish your entire family for four generations and a century.


Nevertheless, I'm not here to justify my response, or clarify it. You asked me what made me think God was punishing great-grand-children and I gave you the answer straight out of YOUR holy book.

And then Jesus hits the scene and does away with all the old law. He died for us so that we don't have have to suffer the sins of our fathers.

 

[Swift]

And then Jesus hits the scene and does away with all the old law. He died for us so that we don't have have to suffer the sins of our fathers.

Thank you, you can fulfill the law and still live by grace. That's why hebrews still try to follow all the old laws of the Old Testament.

 

[Famine]

And then Jesus hits the scene and does away with all the old law. He died for us so that we don't have have to suffer the sins of our fathers.

Aaaand... so?

If you believe the Earth is 6,000 years old, that's two-thirds of the Earth's history where "a jealous God" has punished four consecutive generations for not believing. Looking niiiiiice.

Swift - Why does "He" keep referring to himself as "a God" and "thy God" if he's the ONLY God?

 

[JacktheHat]

I don't claim to totally understand God. But I do have a fairly good grasp on the situation.

Possibly the funniest thing I've ever read on ths forum

 

[Swift]

Possibly the funniest thing I've ever read on ths forum

Yep, because you don't understand the very concept of God.

Aaaand... so?

If you believe the Earth is 6,000 years old, that's two-thirds of the Earth's history where "a jealous God" has punished four consecutive generations for not believing. Looking niiiiiice.

Swift - Why does "He" keep referring to himself as "a God" and "thy God" if he's the ONLY God?

You when he says things like "The Lord thy God"?

 

[JacktheHat]

Yep, because you don't understand the very concept of God.

Que? Or do you mean I don't agree with your viewpoint?

But please feel free to educate myself and all the others who have not had the enlightenment of your wisdom:

What is the very concept of God?

 

[Swift]

Que? Or do you mean I don't agree with your viewpoint?

But please feel free to educate myself and all the others who have not had the enlightenment of your wisdom:

What is the very concept of God?

Nice sarcasam.

EDIT:
With that's been said about God by various members, you don't have any idea huh?

I'm starting to understand Famine's frustration.

 

[JacktheHat]

Nice sarcasam.

Care to answer the question?

Edit - Does this help?

God
1. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
2. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
3. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
4. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
5. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
6. A very handsome man.
7. A powerful ruler or despot.

 

[JacktheHat]

Nice sarcasam.

With that's been said about God by various members, you don't have any idea huh?

I'm starting to understand Famine's frustration.

You where the one who said I had no idea. You obviously didn't take my previous advice about the word assume.

 

[JacktheHat]

how exactly have all the people that are currently being exploited failed God? Africa is mostly Christian, as is Central and Southern America, and people there go to church regularily.

Whilst you're educating me is there any chance you could respond to this too?

 

[Swift]

Well, let's see. You're copping a pretty serious attitude trying to draw me into a "why doesn't God help everyone" debate. On top of that, you get sarcastic, give a textbook definition for God and then expect me to just comply.

Very cute. I'll just say this.

The wisdom, knowledge and power of God is as infinite as the universe itself. Hence it is impossible for us to comletely understand the ways or thoughts of God. Make sense?

EDIT I'd like to know what you mean by exploited. You've used that term a lot.

 

[JacktheHat]

Well, let's see. You're copping a pretty serious attitude trying to draw me into a "why doesn't God help everyone" debate. On top of that, you get sarcastic, give a textbook definition for God and then expect me to just comply.

You were the one who said they had failed God, I was asking you to qualify that statement.

The wisdom, knowledge and power of God is as infinite as the universe itself. Hence it is impossible for us to comletely understand the ways or thoughts of God. Make sense?

No, why say that I didn't understand the very concept of God when you're now saying that neither do you?

You're not exactly consistent in your posts, are you?


Edit - Exploit definition, from a dictionary,:

tr.v. ex·ploit·ed, ex·ploit·ing, ex·ploits (k-sploit, ksploit)

1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
2. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate.
3. To advertise; promote.

In this context I mean the second definition.

 

[Swift]

You were the one who said they had failed God, I was asking you to qualify that statement.




No, why say that I didn't understand the very concept of God when you're now saying that neither do you?

You're not exactly consistent in your posts, are you?

Can you show me where I said Aftricans, south Americans or anyone else failed God in a blanket statement? I remeber saying the America has pushed God away. But that's it.

Also, in my first post about the concept of God, I clearly stated that :

I don't claim to totally understand God. But I do have a fairly good grasp on the situation. Nobody can fully understand God and the ways of God. That's just not going to happen. But I do strive for greater understanding.

So what does that say. It says that I strive for greater understanding in God.

 

[JacktheHat]

Also, God hasn't failed people. If anything, people have failed God.

This is where you said it.

So what does that say. It says that I strive for greater understanding in God.

And? I said this:

I don't claim to totally understand God. But I do have a fairly good grasp on the situation.

was funny and then you told me:

Yep, because you don't understand the very concept of God..

An example of your inconsistency?

 

[Swift]

You don't understand the concept of God. I do, but I still don't fully understand his ways. How is that inconsistent?

You understand how a car works in general. But I doubt you could explain to me the function of each part and how the ECU controls it and the relationship to the driver and the road, etc etc. That doesn't mean you don't understand the concept of a car, it means you're not an engineer.

 

[JacktheHat]

You don't understand that concept of God. I do, but I still don't fully understand his ways. How is that inconsistent?

You understand how a car works in general. But I doubt you could explain to me the function of each part and how the ECU controls it and the relationship to the driver and the road, etc etc. That doesn't mean you don't understand the concept of a car, it means you're not an engineer.

So qualify your statement that you're an expert on God.

You seem to think that just because I have an opposing viewpoint to yourself and do not share the same beliefs that I can have no concept of God.

Edit - and please feel free to answer my question regarding how exploited Christians have failed God.

 

[Pako]

Aaaand... so?

If you believe the Earth is 6,000 years old, that's two-thirds of the Earth's history where "a jealous God" has punished four consecutive generations for not believing. Looking niiiiiice.

Swift - Why does "He" keep referring to himself as "a God" and "thy God" if he's the ONLY God?

"IF" is a big word. "IF" my grandma had balls she'd be my grandpa. "IF" is a big word.

Just for the record, I've never said that I thought the earth was only 6,000 years old.

 

[Swift]

So qualify your statement that you're an expert on God.

You seem to think that just because I have an opposing viewpoint to yourself and do not share the same beliefs that I can have no concept of God.

You don't have any understanding of the God that I serve. I'm not afraid to say that. It's obvious by your posts. When you say things like people being exploited even though they go to church. That just shows how little you know.

People in the first church were persecuted and "exploited" as well. It didn't make them any less believers or make God any less a saviour.

 

[JacktheHat]

You live in a developed country, how bad could your life have been even before you found God?

Put you finding God into context with everything else that is going on in the world.
All still fine and dandy? He's there for you so who cares if He's not helping the needy?

If God actually existed then I wouldn't be happy with him.

You've still avoided answering my initial question...

And also qualifying your statement that you're an expert on God...

 

[JacktheHat]

You don't have any understanding of the God that I serve.

As opposed to other Gods?

 

[Swift]

You've still avoided answering my initial question...

And also qualifying your statement that you're an expert on God...

I never said I was an expert on God. Man, how many times do I have to say it.

Your question is quite loaded. No matter how I answer it, it will seem that God either doesn't care or doesn't exist.

Besides those people arnen't being exploited. They're being persecuted. Big difference.

 

[JacktheHat]

I never said I was an expert on God. Man, how many times do I have to say it.

So why say this:

You don't understand the concept of God. I do, but I still don't fully understand his ways. How is that inconsistent?

You understand how a car works in general. But I doubt you could explain to me the function of each part and how the ECU controls it and the relationship to the driver and the road, etc etc. That doesn't mean you don't understand the concept of a car, it means you're not an engineer.

Your question is quite loaded. No matter how I answer it, it will seem that God either doesn't care or doesn't exist.

Besides those people arnen't being exploited. They're being persecuted. Big difference.

They are being exploited, where do you think metals come from? Where do you think your clothes and products are constructed? Where do diamonds come from? Are these people and countries getting a fair deal?