Religion is contrived

[Swift]

So why say this:






They are being exploited, where do you think metals come from? Where do you think your clothes and products are constructed? Where do diamonds come from? Are these people and countries getting a fair deal?

Hmm...well they're not being exploited because of their religious beliefs, but because of their economic status. So how does that relate again?

 

[skicrush]

I agree--this global socio-economic exploitation debate is rediculous. God will not take away anyone's free agency--their free will to choose. And if some rich businessman chooses to oppress people, that's HIS fault, not God's fault. On top of that, just because YOU think they're exploited does not mean they are exploited. If you want communism, why don't you go to Russia, North Korea, or China and ask how that worked (or is working)for them? Why don't YOU send some of YOUR wages to those poor oppressed people? Swift does. I do. Maybe that's God plan--ever think of that?

 

[Tacet_Blue]

I agree--this global socio-economic exploitation debate is rediculous. God will not take away anyone's free agency--their free will to choose. And if some rich businessman chooses to oppress people, that's HIS fault, not God's fault. On top of that, just because YOU think they're exploited does not mean they are exploited. If you want communism, why don't you go to Russia,

God doesn't seem to do a lot does he...why doesn't he just click his fingers and pull 5000 loaves of bread out the air and make some nice sandwiches for the starving and poor...how about throwing some rain on their dry fields so that they could grow their own food for a change. He's a bit lazy this God of yours...I mean asking Swift to donate money he can ill afford, when surely God could just magic it up

Anyhoo...just seen on the news, that Churchgoers in UK are now officially allowed to worship the Virgin Mary, something that here in the UK they would have been burned alive for You've got to love the Church and it's subtle punishment The story also added that Catholicism is now the largest religion in the UK.

 

[JParker]

The story also added that Catholicism is now the largest religion in the UK.

Catholicism is a denomination, Christianity is the religion.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Catholicism is a denomination, Christianity is the religion.

Er...yes thanks for that

To reiterate..It is Catholic Churches that are the fastest growing in UK and now have the largest following, compared to others such as Evangelist...is that better.

 

[Swift]

Er...yes thanks for that

To reiterate..It is Catholic Churches that are the fastest growing in UK and now have the largest following, compared to others such as Evangelist...is that better.

Nope, kinda scary actually. and it proves that catholics DON'T follow the bible. I mean, that's a direct violation of everything Jesus taught about. He never once mentioned that we should venerate Mary.

EDIT: I'm sorry, I should say SOME catholics...

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Nope, kinda scary actually. and it proves that catholics DON'T follow the bible. I mean, that's a direct violation of everything Jesus taught about. He never once mentioned that we should venerate Mary.

EDIT: I'm sorry, I should say SOME catholics...

It was quite interesting, they were saying that to worship her image was iconography or something like that, and it represented the intransigence of Rome.
Burning is a bit extreme but even I know that the number one commandment is don't worship other images...God is a bit touchy about that sort of thing, he be a jealous God

(I saw you wrote earlier that a man should be jealous of his wife and visa versa...I disagree totally...jealousy is a negative emotion, it represents insecurity, and will make you feel bitter. I trust my woman, and she trusts me, if I see a guy chatting her up when we are out..and it happens a lot with the length of skirt she wears I don't feel jealous at all, in fact it makes me realise how lucky I am, and thats a good feeling. They don't call it the green eyed monster for nothing )

I was wondering why so many Catholics now, my theory is that man is inherently lazy and the reason there is a 73% Christian following in UK (including all denominations) is because unlike a lot of religions which require you to perform some arduous and time consuming rituals every day, you don't really have to do much with Christianity that effects your daily business. So what is it about Catholicism...personally I would have thought that the contraception thing would have put many off the idea.

 

[Swift]

You guys are amazing. I am a very jealous fiancee. I will not tolerate her cheating on my and she should never tolerate me cheating on here. That is the biblical meaning of jealousy that is used here.

Jealous: Intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity; autocratic: a jealous God.

That's what I'm talking about. Are you saying you shouldn't be a jealous husband? That you will let your wife run around on you and it's cool?

 

[Tacet_Blue]

You guys are amazing. I am a very jealous fiancee. I will not tolerate her cheating on my and she should never tolerate me cheating on here. That is the biblical meaning of jealousy that is used here.

Jealous: Intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity; autocratic: a jealous God.

That's what I'm talking about. Are you saying you shouldn't be a jealous husband? That you will let your wife run around on you and it's cool?

I don't want to go too off Topic (sorry Pako ) but you are leading me astray

Don't get me wrong,
I'm not talking about an open relationship, if she cheats on me I'll dump her in a second What I mean is, it is not good to feel jealousy, it is a destructive emotion. If she chooses to be with someone else, then that is her business, I don't own her and I would not be jealous

That is why I find it slightly amusing that God would choose to have negative emotions, like jealousy anger etc. I think it odd that a tiny mortal man like me can rise above that, and God can't
Isn't the "don't covet thy neighbours oxen" a reference about not being jealous of others success or possessions.

(wow...I think I've brought it back on topic )

 

[Swift]

I don't want to go too off Topic (sorry Pako ) but you are leading me astray

Don't get me wrong,
I'm not talking about an open relationship, if she cheats on me I'll dump her in a second What I mean is, it is not good to feel jealousy, it is a destructive emotion. If she chooses to be with someone else, then that is her business, I don't own her and I would not be jealous

That is why I find it slightly amusing that God would choose to have negative emotions, like jealousy anger etc. I think it odd that a tiny mortal man like me can rise above that, and God can't
Isn't the "don't covet thy neighbours oxen" a reference about not being jealous of others success or possessions.

(wow...I think I've brought it back on topic )

What really amazes me is that if a word has more then one definition and I use the less common one, it's totally dismissed.

I'm not talking about God being envious of people. I'm talking about a God that doesn't like it when you "cheat" on him with other things or other people. God wants to be first in our lives. Yes, there is room for work family and all the rest of it. But God wants to come first.

 

[Pako]

Way to weave in and out of topic there Tacet! Well done.

God says (in loose terms), "Hey, don't be messin' around and show me the respect that I deserve, seeing as how I created you all. I'm your Father so treat me like one."

Mind you, very loose. God is also love, the kind of unconditional love that we can only strive for.

 

[Famine]

You guys are amazing. I am a very jealous fiancee. I will not tolerate her cheating on my and she should never tolerate me cheating on here. That is the biblical meaning of jealousy that is used here.

Jealous: Intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity; autocratic: a jealous God.

That's what I'm talking about. Are you saying you shouldn't be a jealous husband? That you will let your wife run around on you and it's cool?

I don't have to be, because it won't happen.

 

[Swift]

I don't have to be, because it won't happen.

Uh...yeah. Well that's good. But you do want your wife to be loyal to you right?

 

[Famine]

I'm not married. But in any case, if she doesn't want to be loyal to me, that's her problem, not mine.

Moving swiftly (no pun intended) back to translation bias and etymology, the word in Exodus 20 is actually "qana", which derives from the Hebrew "to be envious (of)".

 

[Swift]

I'm not married. But in any case, if she doesn't want to be loyal to me, that's her problem, not mine.

Moving swiftly (no pun intended) back to translation bias and etymology, the word in Exodus 20 is actually "qana", which derives from the Hebrew "to be envious (of)".

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

I'm not married. But in any case, if she doesn't want to be loyal to me, that's her problem, not mine.

Moving swiftly (no pun intended) back to translation bias and etymology, the word in Exodus 20 is actually "qana", which derives from the Hebrew "to be envious (of)".

I hate to obsess over definitions like Swift does...but hey, mine was correct

Queen Jealousy, Envy waits behind him
Her fiery green gown
Stares at the grassy ground

If someone doesn't want me to be in their life...I don't care

Why God gets so petty is indeed a mystery. If Swift chose to worship....hmmm lets say Shiva, or the Giant Penguin...God should say.."well thanks for your time and devotion Swift, it's been real " and let Swift move on..but no

He is envious of Swift's worship of another God, and starts to stamp his God-like feet. So that's egotistical, envious and angry, you know I'm really moving towards Taoism these days, the Gods are so much more relaxed

 

[skicrush]

I guess the problem, Tacet, is that Christianity is NOT a polytheistic religion. If it was, your argument would be fine.

 

[Swift]

I guess the problem, Tacet, is that Christianity is NOT a polytheistic religion. If it was, your argument would be fine.

Yep.


Tacet: It's like this. God cares so much for us that when we're going astray he will get our attention so we get on the right track. Just like a parent does with their child.

 

[Danoff]

I guess the problem, Tacet, is that Christianity is NOT a polytheistic religion. If it was, your argument would be fine.

Nope. Tacet's argument does not rest on the existance of multiple Gods, simply the fact that God is a jealous god. Jealous of people worshipping any other God (including false ones). Your argument here does not invalidate what Tacet was saying.

edit:

Mind you, very loose. God is also love, the kind of unconditional love that we can only strive for.

Minus the whole 10 commandment conditions and the condition that you have to believe in him... and repent.

 

[James2097]

Queen Jealousy, Envy waits behind him
Her fiery green gown
Stares at the grassy ground

Nice quote from Jimi Hendrix there. Just wondering if thats where you sourced it from!? Hendrix was so much wiser than the crazed druggo people think he is.

Music is my religion, it gives me all the spirituality I need!

Man didn't invent music, either, so I do believe its something we share with the universe. I mean birds obviously create their own type of music, and dogs etc evidently enjoy music also. So its not a purely man-made construction, there is a real spiritual connectedness and purity with the world and our place in it, when we relate in a musical way.

When I play my guitar, I really believe it tells people far more about who I really am and how I feel than any words I could think of. Music just crosses all boundaries of language, race and faith. An all-encompassing, beautiful expression of all man's emotion, it needs no translation. Its the most successful form of spirituality, the most powerful. I believe- the most pure form of communication we understand.
In some ways (Music = faith) for me. There are some obvious similarities here: It is present in everyone, and all around us, but no one really understands why its so special, or why it moves us so powerfully. We can understand the form (like quoting the bible) but true understanding seems elusive. It is much greater than the sum of its prophets (Jimi Hendrix for me , but everyone is different. Just as people like different churches, people also like different composers, its still the same messasge.) There are a lot of paralells here with religion I think.

The only difference is that music is real, a tangible thing that helps us out in an appropriate way when we feel happy, sad etc. Whereas religion is more about simply believing that God, or whoever, cares about you. Its not as helpful, or even as innately spiritual IMO...

True commuication needs no words. Tue spirituality is understanding oneself, and your place in the world. Not neccessarily idolising an allmighty figure who takes no physical form. Like God, music again takes no physical form, but its a two way relationship with the people (its ever evolving with input from new composers), not a one way monologue in a "I know best, you can't evolve who I am." kinda way.

Hence, past, present or future, music remains the most effective spiritual experience regardless of who you are in the world. It never judges you, whilst still inspiring everyone to be better people..

For instance: the blues was needed by people far more than any religion when it took shape early last century...

 

[Pako]

Nope. Tacet's argument does not rest on the existance of multiple Gods, simply the fact that God is a jealous god. Jealous of people worshipping any other God (including false ones). Your argument here does not invalidate what Tacet was saying.

edit:

Minus the whole 10 commandment conditions and the condition that you have to believe in him... and repent.

When my son does something I tell him not to do, I don't love him any less, even if I get mad and have to punish him but he's still my child and will continue to love and care for him. Needless to day, God treats much the same way.

 

[JacktheHat]

Hmm...well they're not being exploited because of their religious beliefs, but because of their economic status. So how does that relate again?

And? God lets this happen. Why?


Any chance of a direct answer?

 

[JacktheHat]

I agree--this global socio-economic exploitation debate is rediculous. God will not take away anyone's free agency--their free will to choose. And if some rich businessman chooses to oppress people, that's HIS fault, not God's fault. On top of that, just because YOU think they're exploited does not mean they are exploited. If you want communism, why don't you go to Russia, North Korea, or China and ask how that worked (or is working)for them? Why don't YOU send some of YOUR wages to those poor oppressed people? Swift does. I do. Maybe that's God plan--ever think of that?

It's got nothing to do with communism, it's more to do with hypocrisy. Swift stated that God helped him I asked what about the people that really need help, why doesn't God help them?

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Nice quote from Jimi Hendrix there. Just wondering if thats where you sourced it from!? Hendrix was so much wiser than the crazed druggo people think he is.

Well spotted, who else could it be

Music is my religion, it gives me all the spirituality I need!

Music is my Aeroplane...

ok that's a quote too, but it means something to me, a bit like what you are saying where music can be your faith. It brings me far more solace than any image of a bearded man ever did

 

[James2097]

Music is my Aeroplane...

By the Way, thats a Chili Peppers quote. 👍 (oh pun sooo intended...)

... It brings me far more solace than any image of a bearded man ever did

So you don't like ZZ Top? (thats who you meant right?)

 

[Pako]

And? God lets this happen. Why?


Any chance of a direct answer?

Oh I don't know... Free will might have something to do with it. If I stick my hand over a flame and scream at God, "GOD WHY ARE YOU LETTING MY HAND BURN", his response might be "Ummm.., why don't you take your hand and pull it away from the flame?".

Granted, not everyone has a choice in the life they live, but they find purpose, strength, and hope in God.

 

[skicrush]

It's got nothing to do with communism, it's more to do with hypocrisy. Swift stated that God helped him I asked what about the people that really need help, why doesn't God help them?

You know, you might be surprised what they would tell you if you asked them. Most would say that God HAS helped them. Are they as rich as you are in your developed country? No, maybe not. Are their needs met as compared with those around them. Yes, they are. They would tell you that God has blessed them, too. In fact, they would say things very similar to what Swift said. That's why its so funny when you say stuff like that. You've never lived among them--you just suppose that they are these downtrodden, oppressed people. I have, and they aren't. They're happy, for the most part, and they recognize (and are grateful for) the blessings God has given them.

 

[Swift]

You know, you might be surprised what they would tell you if you asked them. Most would say that God HAS helped them. Are they as rich as you are in your developed country? No, maybe not. Are their needs met as compared with those around them. Yes, they are. They would tell you that God has blessed them, too. In fact, they would say things very similar to what Swift said. That's why its so funny when you say stuff like that. You've never lived among them--you just suppose that they are these downtrodden, oppressed people. I have, and they aren't. They're happy, for the most part, and they recognize (and are grateful for) the blessings God has given them.

That was well said. 👍

 

[Tacet_Blue]

You know, you might be surprised what they would tell you if you asked them. Most would say that God HAS helped them. Are they as rich as you are in your developed country? No, maybe not. Are their needs met as compared with those around them. Yes, they are. They would tell you that God has blessed them, too.

Your kidding right?

The United Nations announced last year that millions in southern Africa face starvation resulting from an extended drought that has gripped the region.

The UN called for a "massive infusion of money," without which more than 60 million people face starvation.

The United Nations World Food Program issued a statement Tuesday stating about 11 million people face severe food shortages in the Horn of Africa, and at least 750,000 more than originally projected are at risk for starvation in southern Africa.

We are not talking about wealth and luxury, we are talking about staying alive!

Do these people look blessed?
All they need is rain and fertile soil so they can grow their own food and not rely on aid packages, if there is a God, that is something he could help with.
It is estimated that 35,000 children die every day in Africa because of lack of food.

 

[James2097]

We are not talking about wealth and luxury, we are talking about staying alive!

Do these people look blessed?
All they need is rain and fertile soil so they can grow their own food and not rely on aid packages, if there is a God, that is something he could help with.
It is estimated that 35,000 children die every day in Africa because of lack of food.

Don't worry Tacet, the Christian concept of "God" was invented by a dude who didn't know Africa (or even the greater universe) even existed.