Rewind feature.

No. Why? Limited resources. Pick what is important. Or do you really want the following.

PD, Fix the AI? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, fix the shadows? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, make the physics better? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, how about a nice tyre model? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!
 
No. Why? Limited resources. Pick what is important. Or do you really want the following.

PD, Fix the AI? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, fix the shadows? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, make the physics better? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, how about a nice tyre model? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!
You high?
 
daus26
Yeah, and as well as running 500hp power cars against 120hp Honda Civics. Don't forget the red-light indicator... and the virtual map, the ability to drive without seeing any of the car or in third person view, feeling any of the G-Force, absence of mechanical damage.. or this, that...

I agree.

I think Racing softs and SRF are the biggest culprits though. But hey there all optional so no worrys.
 
That can be enforced in seasonal events, how about offline free run which often used for time trial like the Nordschleife time board ? If it's use invalidate the lap, then whats' the point of having the feature for offline free run ? It will be very limited in use then.

It's already been stated, but: practice. In FM4, any use of the Rewind invalidates a lap, but on something like the 'Ring, if I'm just testing a tune in free run and happen to bork a corner entry for any myriad reasons, I can just hit rewind and try it again. Or stop, turn around, and try again (which, really, is almost as bad if we're going on a "realism" principle). Any laps that are invalidated for any reason in that game, be it the use of rewind, an off-track excursion, or a wall tap (the last two, if done on the last sector of a lap, will invalidate the next one, much like in GT5), show up at the very bottom of leaderboards. I could have an hour-long lap of the 'Ring, and I'd still show up above all the invalidated laps.

Of course, worrying about how it'd affect leaderboards means PD would actually need to implement those first.

God no please no dont do it unless it's on arcade mode only. If the lap is not valid if you use it then good, otherwise I dont want it. My opinion on rewind it's that it's a way of cheating, if you dont like your lap, start a new one that's really simple. And during a race, if you mess up then you fight to get back, not use a feature to allow you to erase your mistake. And for a game that is called the real driving simulator I dont see a feature like that beeing put. I just hope not.

There's already a fair amount in GT that could qualify as "cheating", then.

But yes, I would have to agree that it doesn't really make sense that having the rewind feature would make the game less sim. To me however, it's the merits and principle of the franchise. I imagine rewind like "aids" or "powerups" in a kart racing game or something. Obviously, you don't have to use it, but if it's there, the urge is kinda hard to ignore. Next thing you know, we enter races without really worrying as much about risks. Worrying about risks is what makes the game more compelling and worthy of beating.

Rewind doesn't make the other cars slower, though. I'll agree about the sense of accomplishment if you finish a game with a lot of risk involved, but the userbase on GTP is not the average GT player. A rewind feature wouldn't suddenly turn someone into a faster driver, making the game easier...

Oh, except it technically would, for a different, better reason; to be successful when relying on rewind, they'd have to learn proper lines. I'm not going to say it's a better method of learning a track (I prefer learning a full-lap, to get the general flow and to string any necessary turns together), but if this is giving Johnny Player a chance to learn a particular trouble spot on a track quicker, then it's not all bad.

And if my cat randomly jumps on lap, or my girlfriend bumps me sitting down on the couch, I'd really rather have the option to rewind five seconds than start an endurance all over again.

And touching on what I said above, SRF is already at least as much of a cheat as people are pretending a rewind feature would be.

Anyway, like I said before, if this feature ever makes it, it better be pretty restricted like practice runs or early races only. We humans don't do well without firm restrictions lol. Eventually, I'm going to start DEPENDING on rewind usage, and that's something I don't want to become and get used to.

Should your personal preference and sense of "GT principles" really get in the way of others using a feature, though?

It couldn't be used online, and I'd imagine License tests wouldn't use it (or at least, invalidate the run if they did). At that point, I don't see it really damaging other peoples' experiences if I, for example, wanted to use it regularly for my own purposes. Even though I'm in the same position as Toronado and Exorcet in the sense that I doubt I'd use it, I see no reason to not have it as an option.

No. Why? Limited resources. Pick what is important. Or do you really want the following.

PD, Fix the AI? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, fix the shadows? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, make the physics better? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, how about a nice tyre model? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

Nevermind that most of those things would not be worked on by whomever would be tasked with implementing a rewind feature; rewind uses almost entirely things already in the game. It would need the most basic of user interfaces, that's it.

I agree.

I think Racing softs and SRF are the biggest culprits though. But hey there all optional so no worrys.

Ding ding! :cheers:
 
Yeah, but does messing up a race end your career in real life? No, you simply race again (unless, of course, it's fatal). Since it's a "game" it just skips the whole, "waiting-for-car-repairs-and-the-event-to-take-place-again" part, unless you think the game should simulate that too. Rewind is a whole different ball game. It can't be compared to real life at all.
The waiting for the next iteration of the event is a pretty big thing. The grid should be different, so should the condition of the track. The rules might possibly have changed. You don't get a restart button. There's no reason that GT can't say "sorry, you've messed up, go race 5 more races until next year arrives, then you can apply to enter again."

Rewind and restart are very similar.

But yes, I would have to agree that it doesn't really make sense that having the rewind feature would make the game less sim. To me however, it's the merits and principle of the franchise. I imagine rewind like "aids" or "powerups" in a kart racing game or something. Obviously, you don't have to use it, but if it's there, the urge is kinda hard to ignore. Next thing you know, we enter races without really worrying as much about risks. Worrying about risks is what makes the game more compelling and worthy of beating.

It's a very easy urge to ignore, as I along with many others have never given in to the temptation (which is a completely misleading word in this case, as there is no temptation unless you're interested in rewind from the beginning). I also must heavily disagree that rewind is for arcade games. It's not a powerup, it's nothing like them. It will never make you faster than you are. It does however allow you to learn more effectively if used correctly. This makes it a very useful tool for sim racing.

Anyway, like I said before, if this feature ever makes it, it better be pretty restricted like practice runs or early races only. We humans don't do well without firm restrictions lol. Eventually, I'm going to start DEPENDING on rewind usage, and that's something I don't want to become and get used to.

I don't see how you can be opposed to rewind, but be vulnerable to becoming reliant on it. That to me just says you want rewind. But in any case, a simple on/off switch is the best. People do very well without restrictions, much better than with, because we at least then get to choose what we actually want to do instead of being boxed into a corner.

No. Why? Limited resources. Pick what is important. Or do you really want the following.

PD, Fix the AI? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, fix the shadows? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, make the physics better? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

PD, how about a nice tyre model? No we're adding a rewind feature instead!

It's the nature of all things to improve with time. PD should find time to fix their issues with the game and at the same time add new features. This is what every developer does.
 
But SRF is an option in GT, so is race softs and automatic shifting. Surely that is cheating too?

Did you not buy GT5 because of those cheating options?

I would like SRF to disapear as well actually, it's not realistic and I never use it. Automatic gearbox is a norm now, most supercar have automatic box so I dont see where it's wrong, racing soft is supposed to recreate super tender compound of the f1 cars so it's not something that doesnt exist really, they just went a bit too far with it because they dont have a good tyre model and they rushed a bit the release of the game.
 
I would like SRF to disapear as well actually, it's not realistic and I never use it. Automatic gearbox is a norm now, most supercar have automatic box so I dont see where it's wrong, racing soft is supposed to recreate super tender compound of the f1 cars so it's not something that doesnt exist really, they just went a bit too far with it because they dont have a good tyre model and they rushed a bit the release of the game.


SRF is realistic: Put glue in the tires.

Auto gearboxes aren't decently made in GT5.

RS is as bad as SRF. The tire that represents the amount of grip that a F1 has (using the f2007) is Comfort Softs, not even sports. Personally I would completely remove changing tires because PD will never get this right.
 
Froudeybrand
Well I have be trolling (not troll, trolling) the site and can't find this in any kind of forum. But with most games for example f1 2012 and other games will we see this feature? I hope not cause I think it makes the games unrealistic. Thought?

Other aids like the magic race line drawn on the track by God or skid recovery are unrealistic, too. Put aids like rewind there as options for players who need them but do like Forza and reward for not using aids.
 
One thing that's really annoyed me on time trial is when you hit restart you start a good while before the start of the lap. I remember in a load of older games it would restart you at the start of your fastest lap. I liked that.

Anyway, as to the actual question that's been posed, I don't mind it being an option, but I think there should be a realistic mode that locks rewinds and restarts in a race and it should also be possible to be forced to retire if you crash badly.

A bit off topic there, sorry guys.
 
I hope not too. what is the point of The Real Driving Simulator if it simulates things that are impossible in real life.

Such as flying into a barrier, tires, another car, or a wall at 200 mph+ with no damage? Hmmmmm...


It's a great feature for a simulator. When testing physics or practicing driving, rewind allows you to negate minor differences in variables and also saves time. Example, find the optimum braking point for the back straight at Sarthe:

No rewind - restart track over and over, or lap over and over with slight variations in speed and position each time.

Rewind - hit rewind button after you've gone around the corner and you go back to the exact initial speed and position.

Rewind in no way lowers realism, it is no way arcade, and to think so just means you've not thought very carefully. Whether it's desirable or not is up to the individual. However, there might be a reason that it appeared in a driving sim, and that said sim isn't stuck in 1997.

Completely agree! Very well put Ex!
 
I'm amazed at how many people don't want Rewind in GT6 and how many people claim they don't use it in games that allow it.

GT6 is a simulator, not real life. As long as you couldn't use it online (of course) or for events in the game I don't see the problem.

Rewind in a practice setting does nothing but save the player time. It allows you to practice a single section of the track at a much faster pace then you could before. Instead of having to do laps over and over to get to the part you want to practice or, --restart -- the race (which is just a slower version of rewinding), you can just rewind to where you need to be.

Rewind feature allows a player more efficiency while training. Less time put in but more out of that time.

I can't fathom how a tool that makes players time spent in game more efficient is looked down upon. Some people have claimed that PD is stuck in 1997 (I've read that all over the forums here) well, it seems like most of the members here are too.
 
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I'm amazed at how many people don't want Rewind in GT6 and how many people claim they don't use it in games that allow it.

GT6 is a simulator, not real life. As long as you couldn't use it online (of course) or for events in the game I don't see the problem.

Rewind in a practice setting does nothing but save the player time. It allows you to practice a single section of the track at a much faster pace then you could before. Instead of having to do laps over and over to get to the part you want to practice or, --restart -- the race (which is just a slower version of rewinding), you can just rewind to where you need to be.

Rewind feature allows a player more efficiency while training. Less time put in but more out of that time.

I can't fathom how a tool that makes players time spent in game more efficient is looked down upon. Some people have claimed that PD is stuck in 1997 (I've read that all over the forums here) well, it seems like most of the members here are too.
👍

My "only" gripe is that it makes it too simple. Yea, I hate having to reverse or do a whole lap again to get re-do the corner I like most or couldn't get right. Adding Rewind is, for lack of a better word, LAAAAAZY.

You know how people say, "Oh I remember the days of the ooold 8 track. Now, ipod." Well, that's one thing. GT, "I thought it was supposed to be the REAL driving simulator", needs to stay normal. Do our younger generations need to be even MORE impatient? Let GT not contribute to that.

The whole "real driving simulator" and "but you can crash and drive unscathed" argument is complete bull. Be honest. I'd rather hear someone call it stupid than say it's impossible to do in real life. And rather hear someone say that there's a Course Generator in GT5 than talk about invincibility in video games. Yes, a lot of you use those arguments. A lot of people don't.
 
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No way, I always hated that feature in driving games. People must learn to drive without features like rewind or brake and steering assists. The only time I found them any usefull is when you introduce the game to a person that is totally new to a driving game or even games/consoles in general, for example when I showed GT and FM to my dad I let him use the assists, it was the first time he had a controler in his hand.

I will get him a console and a copy of GT5 (Academy Version) for xmas, plus either my G27 or a new wheel if I decide to keep my G27 and not buy me a fanatec wheel. With a wheel my dad wouldn't need any assists I'm sure.

Do our younger generations need to be even MORE impatient? Let GT not contribute to that.
exactly, the impatience of younger people nowadays is scary as hell, and it's getting worse and worse. Gaming industry is a part of the reason on why this is so.
 
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"Young people", commonly referred to as children and adolescents, have always existed and they have always been impatient. That's not on the boogy-man videogame industry, it's on youth.

In anycase, this line of reasoning is neither here nor there. It's attempting to skip over the argument that's been presented.

The question is if this feature, the rewind mechanic, should be implemented-- A feature that no one would force you or anyone to use.

Like I said, it's a tool. and I don't see it as "LAAAAZY" (was that 4 or 5 capital As?) I see it as something that makes me a more efficient player.

I don't have hours of time to just sit around lapping tracks and restarting races over and over is just as much a time sink. I want to be able to get the most out of my play time as possible. If a tool like rewind can help me learn a new track faster then I'm all for it.

Simulators in other fields and even real simulators do things all the time that are "omfg it's not real". That's the beauty, it's a simulation so you can test things out without the real world consequences... such as wrecking a 500,000 dollar car. Or... running repeated simulations of a car through a corner testing lines, weight distribution, tire grip, ect.

Finally, my last and most salient point, the feature wouldn't effect anyone else.

I feel like I really need to emphasize that. Why do those against a rewind feature care if it's in the game? Don't Use It. Period. Turn it off. It would give those of us who would like that tool the ability to use it and it simply wouldn't exist for those who don't want it. Thus, nothing will actually change for you, the player who doesn't want the feature in the game, since for you it effectively won't be there if you turn it off/don't use it.

There is no need to become fetishistic about control over how others play the game.
 
Some people have claimed that PD is stuck in 1997 (I've read that all over the forums here) well, it seems like most of the members here are too.

You must be new here ;).

It comes up often; if a feature is suggested that isn't yet a part of the GT franchise (and especially if it's a popular feature of any other driving game), there tends to be some resistance, typically under the argument of protecting "the essence" of GT. See livery editors, engine swaps, and this; rewind.

Do our younger generations need to be even MORE impatient? Let GT not contribute to that.

Perhaps it's more about the other end of the spectrum, about appeasing the older generation. The ones that have 40+ hour work weeks in addition to other responsibilities, and don't really want to practice the entire Nurburgring when they really only feel uncomfortable with the bits between Hohe Acht and the main straight.

The whole "real driving simulator" and "but you can crash and drive unscathed" argument is complete bull. Be honest. I'd rather hear someone call it stupid than say it's impossible to do in real life. And rather hear someone say that there's a Course Generator in GT5 than talk about invincibility in video games. Yes, a lot of you use those arguments. A lot of people don't.

How exactly is that type of argument invalid?

"Young people", commonly referred to as children and adolescents, have always existed and they have always been impatient. That's not on the boogy-man videogame industry, it's on youth.

In anycase, this line of reasoning is neither here nor there. It's attempting to skip over the argument that's been presented.

The question is if this feature, the rewind mechanic, should be implemented-- A feature that no one would force you or anyone to use.

Like I said, it's a tool. and I don't see it as "LAAAAZY" (was that 4 or 5 capital As?) I see it as something that makes me a more efficient player.

I don't have hours of time to just sit around lapping tracks and restarting races over and over is just as much a time sink. I want to be able to get the most out of my play time as possible. If a tool like rewind can help me learn a new track faster then I'm all for it.

Simulators in other fields and even real simulators do things all the time that are "omfg it's not real". That's the beauty, it's a simulation so you can test things out without the real world consequences... such as wrecking a 500,000 dollar car. Or... running repeated simulations of a car through a corner testing lines, weight distribution, tire grip, ect.

Finally, my last and most salient point, the feature wouldn't effect anyone else.

I feel like I really need to emphasize that. Why do those against a rewind feature care if it's in the game? Don't Use It. Period. Turn it off. It would give those of us who would like that tool the ability to use it and it simply wouldn't exist for those who don't want it. Thus, nothing will actually change for you, the player who doesn't want the feature in the game, since for you it effectively won't be there if you turn it off/don't use it.

There is no need to become fetishistic about control over how others play the game.

Excellent post 👍
 
My "only" gripe is that it makes it too simple. Yea, I hate having to reverse or do a whole lap again to get re-do the corner I like most or couldn't get right. Adding Rewind is, for lack of a better word, LAAAAAZY.
Convenience features are nothing more than a result of laziness rather than a want for... convenience?

Game after game after game people call for PD to hire someone who has a clue about UI design to design the menus for their games properly. Are all of those people "LAAAAAZY"? I mean, there are certainly people that constantly call for PD to make their UIs even worse because that's how they were in the older games (especially 4), but is the true "spirit of Gran Turismo" to be pointlessly obtuse?


You know how people say, "Oh I remember the days of the ooold 8 track. Now, ipod." Well, that's one thing. GT, "I thought it was supposed to be the REAL driving simulator", needs to stay normal. Do our younger generations need to be even MORE impatient? Let GT not contribute to that.
Again, convenience isn't laziness. Should PD remove the ability to buy tuning parts from the garage? That massively improved the UI and decreased the time required to do basic things with GT5, but according to this logic such a thing is a problem that needs to be corrected.

The whole "real driving simulator" and "but you can crash and drive unscathed" argument is complete bull. Be honest. I'd rather hear someone call it stupid than say it's impossible to do in real life. And rather hear someone say that there's a Course Generator in GT5 than talk about invincibility in video games. Yes, a lot of you use those arguments. A lot of people don't.
Simply saying an argument is invalid doesn't make it invalid if you don't give any reasoning why.

No way, I always hated that feature in driving games. People must learn to drive without features like rewind or brake and steering assists.
And why is that? And who are you to dictate such a thing? And keep in mind that it's already been pointed out several times why such a thing could make people better drivers, so claiming it will make people worse as if it was an automatic truth won't fly. Especially not with what is already in GT5 (Fun fact: SRF is such a ridiculous and blatant crutch that it used to be called "God Mode" when the game was new).
 
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I'll vote no for the rewind option in races, but i'd like a rewind option in the replays and also slow forward and slow rewind. :)
 
McSoap
I'll vote no for the rewind option in races, but i'd like a rewind option in the replays and also slow forward and slow rewind. :)

Slow forward is already in though.
 
Great post, Prototyp3.

It's the whole thing where some people are so concerned and almost want to police how others might play the game that totally baffles me. It makes no sense. Especially so when it can't be used online, so those against its inclusion can never come in to contact with it.
 
I find it difficult to understand how someone can be opposed to rewind during free runs or practice laps... Has that person has ever taken any license test more than once?
 
I only took mine once. :sly:

Of course! There was that one though... Where you missed gold by 5 hundredths. And before you tried the license again, you went to that same track in practice mode and ran full laps, just to work on the corner or whatever the license test entailed correct?

I did the same thing.

Because immediately taking the license test again, without running full laps to improve your license test score, would be GT Blasphemey, Mario Kart, Atari style madness would it not?

Wait, I have to change the channel on my television. Excuse me while I walk up to it and press the buttons. Remotes are for impatient teenagers.
 
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I think I only had to retry the snow and gravel ones lol. Also rewind in license tests defeats the whole purpose.

A "simulator" simply cannot have a rewind feature. That's crossing the line.

You high?

His point is there are much more important things to fix or add before a rewind feature, and you know spending time and resources into something means not using them into developing others.
 
A "simulator" simply cannot have a rewind feature. That's crossing the line.
The difference that it makes still needs to be established. Else it still boils down to this (equally facetious) argument:
Mario Kart doesn't have rewind = Sim.



His point is there are much more important things to fix or add before a rewind feature, and you know spending time and resources into something means not using them into developing others.
Which Slip covered pretty well when he responded to it.
Nevermind that most of those things would not be worked on by whomever would be tasked with implementing a rewind feature; rewind uses almost entirely things already in the game. It would need the most basic of user interfaces, that's it.
If PD adds the ability to rewind replays (which, after the joke that GT5's system was, they should already be doing), then all of the work is already done.
 
Well I have be trolling (not troll, trolling) the site and can't find this in any kind of forum. But with most games for example f1 2012 and other games will we see this feature? I hope not cause I think it makes the games unrealistic. Thought?

I would rather not see this feature in any Gran Turismo game in the foreseeable future. It hasn't been in any Gran Turismo game so far, and it probably never will make it to the series. Plus, not having a rewind feature makes you think out your moves carefully, and makes you think twice before you try to take that corner faster then the tyres and the car can handle. It would not be of benefit to take an endurance race at 100% pace knowing that if you crash, you can just rewind time which is impossible in real life and do it again.
 
It would not be of benefit to go 100% pace in an endurance race if you can't drive at 100%, end up in the wall, and then rewind to the start line to end up in the wall again.

Unless you can drive, rewind does nothing for you.

Also, restart is impossible in real life. So is owning 2000 cars in an infinite space garage and using your time machine to go back to 1967 to buy a race car.

A sim is a sim because of the realism it offers, it doesn't become any less realistic when convenient features are offered. There also is nothing unrealistic about rewind being available in software.
 
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