Round 2 Cancellation Notice

[The Cheef]

Cheef, like you said, there are many people with many different thoughts. You take your side and fight for it. Racing is brutal though and if you're in it to be the best you can be, you have to live with/do some messed up things.

That's a belief that's widely held to be true that, again in my opinion, should and can be broken. Winning legitimately is one of the greatest feelings ever. Winning by means of exploitation is just not the same.

"Gray area" and interpretation of rules for homologation of cars/parts/practices etc is another discussion entirely but in my system of beliefs, "gray area" practices pale in comparison to cutting corners off tracks. I can live with interpreting the rules slightly differently to gain a marginal at best performance increase, but I can't live with cutting corners off tracks. Obviously this example fits more into the realm of real racing than it does into GT Academy but I guess I'm just saying that I agree with you, but believe that I'd like to be successful without having to "live with/do some messed up things" Again, messed up is different to me than it is to you. And there's always the chance that as I get older, my view/stance will change as well. What I'm willing to do now to get into the seat of a race car may be more or less extreme than it is now. All I know is that I hope none of us have to consider using exploits in the next round because PD will have fixed the issue. If not though, it'll be interesting to see where I/we draw the line.

@ brianm3, exactly, well put.

 

[cenk]

Yes, like the ones who are on the top of the leader board.



I've been driving since I could reach the pedals of a car, at the time it was Brazil, no autos. I started double clutching and rev matching since I got my drivers license here. Practiced it to perfection, you could not feel the slightest hint of a gear change, up or down, only hear it. Within the first month of practicing I was able to do it perfectly 95% of the time.

Does that even matter though? This competition is to see who can be fast in GT first, which I will do my best at.

If you're not fast enough to qualify then it doesn't matter if you can shift well or be fast in real life. That's not the point of the competition.

PD is fixing the loopholes as we speak, so that should tell you what they are looking for.

The point of the competition is very clear now.

 

[brianm3]

Exactly. It's what I am trying to say. IRL people do much worse things. Gotta do what you gotta do to be in front, sim or not.

I hear ya Fix, I was just trying to give people examples I guess. Great drving on this last round by the way. I was using your ghost at Madrid (sorry I picked yours) and your last part of sector 2 into 3 was just off the charts quick. 👍

 

[cenk]

You are still dodging the point. You coudn't throw your car ten feet in the air and get away with it in real life, just as you couldn't put 4 off and get away it.

In fact, you have a better chance of getting away with 4-off than you do with a 10 foot flight.

Yet you are OK with the the "flying car cheat".

Why are you still talking about the jump ? thats not even relevant. Go watch some WRC please.

 

[CodeRedR51]

PD is fixing the loopholes as we speak, so that should tell you what they are looking for.

The point of the competition is very clear now.

👍

 

[xe2bls]

👍

If I thought cutting indy was fine, I'd have done it too. I don't think it's something anyone should do, but if push comes to shove I won't be lower in the ranks than I should be because of it. (edit: now that I think of it, I actually had decided I'd only cut if I was outside the top 16. It was a bit extreme just to be at the top in that case)

I'd have waited until I was sure nothing would have been done about it, then I'd have cut it too. I'm sure other drivers that are usually on top of the time sheets would do exactly like me.

 

[xe2bls]

Cheef I never wanted to use any exploits, and I didn't. I don't count the cape as one but like you said, 'exploits' are different things to different people.

I think going wide at the cape is not nearly as bad as the jump.

Cutting Indy is just stupid, no need for that. Hitting the wall at Madrid is just as bad. The thing is, if other people do it and they allow it, then I'd live with it.


P.S. Would you think twice about hitting the wall if it meant advancing into the next round?

That's a belief that's widely held to be true that, again in my opinion, should and can be broken. Winning legitimately is one of the greatest feelings ever. Winning by means of exploitation is just not the same.

"Gray area" and interpretation of rules for homologation of cars/parts/practices etc is another discussion entirely but in my system of beliefs, "gray area" practices pale in comparison to cutting corners off tracks. I can live with interpreting the rules slightly differently to gain a marginal at best performance increase, but I can't live with cutting corners off tracks. Obviously this example fits more into the realm of real racing than it does into GT Academy but I guess I'm just saying that I agree with you, but believe that I'd like to be successful without having to "live with/do some messed up things" Again, messed up is different to me than it is to you. And there's always the chance that as I get older, my view/stance will change as well. What I'm willing to do now to get into the seat of a race car may be more or less extreme than it is now. All I know is that I hope none of us have to consider using exploits in the next round because PD will have fixed the issue. If not though, it'll be interesting to see where I/we draw the line.

@ brianm3, exactly, well put.

 

[brianm3]

If I thought cutting indy was fine, I'd have done it too. I don't think it's something anyone should do, but if push comes to shove I won't be lower in the ranks than I should be because of it.

I'd have waiting until I was sure nothing would have been done about it, then I'd have cut it too. I'm sure other drivers that are usually on top of the time sheets would do exactly like me.

X2 My thoughts exactly.

 

[CodeRedR51]

That's a belief that's widely held to be true that, again in my opinion, should and can be broken. Winning legitimately is one of the greatest feelings ever. Winning by means of exploitation is just not the same.

Exactly.

Continue to discuss guys, this is where I stop. Have a nice day. 👍

 

[cenk]

Cheef I never wanted to use any exploits, and I didn't. I don't count the cape as one but like you said, 'exploits' are different things to different people.

I think going wide at the cape is not nearly as bad as the jump.

Cutting Indy is just stupid, no need for that. Hitting the wall at Madrid is just as bad. The thing is, if other people do it and they allow it, then I'd live with it.


P.S. Would you think twice about hitting the wall if it meant advancing into the next round?

You never had to cheat to beat the cheaters. But most of us were put in that situation. That's the difference.

 

[cenk]

Exactly.

Continue to discuss guys, this is where I stop. Have a nice day. 👍

I'm out too. See ya around 👍

 

[Z1NONLY]

Why are you still talking about the jump ? thats not even relevant. Go watch some WRC please.

I'm pointing out the unreal "cheats" people find OK in this competition.

The ability to launch a race car 10 feet in the air and land on hard pavement without harm to the car is just one of many.

IRL, "dignified" drivers would slow down. But here in the sim world, people who complain "You can't put four off in real life." don't hesitate to use the no-damage "cheat" offered by the game.

If it's a "cheat" they approve of, it's ok. If they don't approve, well, here we are.

 

[cenk]

I'm pointing out the unreal "cheats" people find OK in this competition.

The ability to launch a race car 10 feet in the air and land on hard pavement without harm to the car is just one of many.

IRL, "dignified" drivers would slow down. But here in the sim world, people who complain "You can't put four off in real life." don't hesitate to use the no-damage "cheat" offered by the game.

If it's a "cheat" they approve of, it's ok. If they don't approve, well, here we are.

You tend to point out the irrelevant to prove things. However, PD decided to fix the loopholes to make this SIM as real as possible. So you are totally arguing against a FACT today. Good luck with that. Goodbye.

 

[Z1NONLY]

You tend to point out the irrelevant to prove things. However, PD decided to fix the loopholes to make this SIM as real as possible. So you are totally arguing against a FACT today. Good luck with that. Goodbye.

I hope they do fix the loopholes.

BTW, What "FACT" did I get wrong?

 

[Forcednduckshn]

That's a belief that's widely held to be true that, again in my opinion, should and can be broken. Winning legitimately is one of the greatest feelings ever. Winning by means of exploitation is just not the same.

"Gray area" and interpretation of rules for homologation of cars/parts/practices etc is another discussion entirely but in my system of beliefs, "gray area" practices pale in comparison to cutting corners off tracks. I can live with interpreting the rules slightly differently to gain a marginal at best performance increase, but I can't live with cutting corners off tracks. Obviously this example fits more into the realm of real racing than it does into GT Academy but I guess I'm just saying that I agree with you, but believe that I'd like to be successful without having to "live with/do some messed up things" Again, messed up is different to me than it is to you. And there's always the chance that as I get older, my view/stance will change as well. What I'm willing to do now to get into the seat of a race car may be more or less extreme than it is now. All I know is that I hope none of us have to consider using exploits in the next round because PD will have fixed the issue. If not though, it'll be interesting to see where I/we draw the line.

w/ R1600 on this, well said cheef.

In all of the championships/races I've won, I've never once cheated, and even beat cheaters who were doing illegal things. I've even won many kart races where I was over-ballasted against great drivers. Those are the special days. Battling through adversity, and having inferior equipment has forced me to get better through driving. I'm thankful for it.

It's the spirit of healty competition that a purist is after, it's the great battle with another great driver that I live for. Emerging victorious in such a battle is the ultimate feeling. But I still have a smile on my face win or lose, if it was an epic battle. Fighting with those at the top in the Northeast has been awesome. I will literally never forget it.

 

[G.McGee]

Brian is Right. RL professional racing is very brutal.

If you want to part take in more gentlemanly races then racing w/ the Dr/Lawyers in some Skippy stuff would be very enjoyable, but you can't take that attitude into pro racing. Indy was ridiculous, but Cape (with the exception of going four wide on exit of the highspeed right) had some pretty common driving that you'd see in real-life.

Watch the DTM replays on SPEED this week. Very high level series, some of the world's best drivers and plenty of officials to make sure noone is driving in what they would consider a cheating fashion. I'm not condoning all of it, I’m just saying it would be fantasy to think that it isn't common in RL.

I just watched them race at Adria (wet race) and what did I see....
The very common in real-world (and hardly cheating) 2 wheels in the grass at apex at nearly every corner (the rare four off @ chicanes as well). Even the running off track on exit, over the slippery 6ft wide painted surface and back onto some more tarmac that lay further wide of the corner, every single lap, by every single car, for 59 laps without one word from the stewards.

There was also, as usual in pro racing, some very aggressive and deliberate intentions to spin out the opponent in front which got you a warning at best. (That last one is not something I could EVER bring myself to do to someoneelse) and yes there is some very questionable and unsportsmanlike like conduct in some cases, but it is totally acceptable in DTM and most other high level series.

I'm not saying you should do these sort of things, but I wouldn't pretend its not a normal part of COMPETITIVE racing.

 

[G.McGee]

w/ R1600 on this, well said cheef.

In all of the championships/races I've won, I've never once cheated, and even beat cheaters who were doing illegal things. I've even won many kart races where I was over-ballasted against great drivers. Those are the special days. Battling through adversity, and having inferior equipment

I'm with you on that Force,👍 I prefer an uphill battle. Taking pole, leading every lap, and winning without battling with a single person on track is unsatisfying.

 

[yardee]

I haven't read all ten pages and have to leave to work NOW... just wondering if all of us round 2.5/3ers will get the round 2 prizes since we were all officially moved on to round 3.

 

[Z1NONLY]

I'm with you on that Force,👍 I prefer an uphill battle. Taking pole, leading every lap, and winning without battling with a single person on track is unsatisfying.

At the track (IRL), I would rather lose driving well, than win driving poorly.

OT, but what kind of racing do you do IRL?

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

That's a belief that's widely held to be true that, again in my opinion, should and can be broken. Winning legitimately is one of the greatest feelings ever. Winning by means of exploitation is just not the same.

Unfortunately, not everyone is like that. Students cheat on exams, players use illegal substances, racing teams use unapproved equipment, gamers use cheats and exploits and the only time they feel remorse is when they get caught. They don't care about moral victories, it's all about winning at all costs. Now, I'm not that type of person but there are others like that and we always have to keep that in mind when competing. That's why it's important for any competitive event to be properly set up from the start to acoount for that and that's where the organizers fell short. Even so, the choice to keep it clean and not winning is better than winning dirty and losing the respect of everyone else.

As for some of the other "cheats" out there, my belief is that they should only be addressed if enough people complain. In retrospect, we may have dropped the ball ourselves by not voicing our opinions loud enough to the organizers in regards to Cape Ring. By not raising enough ruckus back then, we may have inadvetedly gave the organizers and all the competitors an implicit approval that the tactics used in Cape Ring was going to be tolerated in the later rounds.

 

[CodeRedR51]

By not raising enough ruckus back then, we may have inadvetedly gave the organizers and all the competitors an implicit approval that the tactics used in Cape Ring was going to be tolerated in the later rounds.

Well said. 👍

 

[95BlkMiata-038]

I haven't read all ten pages and have to leave to work NOW... just wondering if all of us round 2.5/3ers will get the round 2 prizes since we were all officially moved on to round 3.

I doubt it, since Sony said the round was 'cancelled'. Since they cancelled it I would bet that gets Sony out of giving out prizes per the Contest Rules.

 

[chuyler1]

As for the "jump" on cape ring. It is a little extreme but jumps are not unheard of. Take a look at these photos from Limerock Park. The uphill portion of the track is enough to lose your lunch if you don't have the nose of the car pointed in the right direction before liftoff. Even before the repaving a few years ago most drivers took it full-throttle.

As long as the landing is pitched correct, the car's suspension can handle it.

 

[scca_ziptie]

Agreed.

Round 2 prize = not being "bumped" by "the rule stretchers." 💡

 

[Z1NONLY]

But IRL, any race car would have been undrivable after one of our flying-car landings at the cape.

 

[Ghoa$t]

I'm pointing out the unreal "cheats" people find OK in this competition.

The ability to launch a race car 10 feet in the air and land on hard pavement without harm to the car is just one of many.

IRL, "dignified" drivers would slow down. But here in the sim world, people who complain "You can't put four off in real life." don't hesitate to use the no-damage "cheat" offered by the game.

If it's a "cheat" they approve of, it's ok. If they don't approve, well, here we are.

ehhhhhhhh you're becoming annoying with your Sim vs Real life comparisons. If you want to apply the same rules as in real life then what you need is a real car and a real track, then do as much laps as you'd like and tell us how that works out for you ok? As much as it is a sim, its still a game, which has less drastic boundaries/parameters/consequences than real life so we operate within the boundaries set by the game. We have all accepted that fact and have moved on. What is being argued about here is something totally different than what you're trying to pitch.

<fact> GT5 =! Real Life </fact>

 

[arch_s13]

close to the cape ring jump?

 

[scca_ziptie]

Close......... But also a RALLY CAR which is designed to take "massive" punishment... Good comparision on a jump, bad comparision on the car.

 

[arch_s13]

Close......... But also a RALLY CAR which is designed to take "massive" punishment... Good comparision on a jump, bad comparision on the car.

i know about the rally car part. i was just thinking that the jump in cape has competition in real life in terms of the amount of air hehe

 

[Z1NONLY]

ehhhhhhhh you're becoming annoying with your Sim vs Real life comparisons. If you want to apply the same rules as in real life then what you need is a real car and a real track, then do as much laps as you'd like and tell us how that works out for you ok?

I'm not one of the selective ethics people here. I understand that the sim isn't real life.

It's simply hypocritical to pick and choose "cheats" you like while decrying others for using "cheats" you don't like.

Compared to real life, the reset button is the biggest "cheat" of all time.

And I already track real cars. It "works out" well for me. Thanks.

As much as it is a sim, its still a game, which has less drastic boundaries/parameters/consequences than real life so we operate within the boundaries set by the game.

As were the wall bouncers. (Something I never did BTW)

We have all accepted that fact and have moved on.

This thread would suggest otherwise.

What is being argued about here is something totally different than what you're trying to pitch.

If doing something in the sim you coudn't do in real life makes it a "cheat" then every one that, pulled the E-brake in a race car, shifted the regular 370 without a clutch, jumped a car 10 ft into the air, reset a car after a crash etc. has used a "cheat".

But those cheats are ok....