*Rumor* Gran Turismo 7 Prologue headed to PS4?

[Johnnypenso]

Another thing about P CARS is it's yet another racing sim. A pretty one, one I think that has around 130 cars in it, including a few dozen street cars. But how that's supposed to obliterate all other racers, I have yet to see a hint. We've heard this all before, about Toca, Enthusia, GTR, Ferrari/SC Challenge, Shift, Race Room P CARS, Assetto Corsa... racing games come along, some are nifty, some are okay, but somehow they never seem to touch Forza or Gran Turismo's coattails. And Forza, for all its goodies, still falls in a very long Gran Turismo shadow.

You guys can proclaim doom and gloom all you like, but the world votes with its monies every release, and GT just keeps on trucking no matter what. And a big reason why is in my post above.

Feel free to show us where anyone said PCars will obliterate GT. What people are saying is that PCars and DriveClub on PS4 are legitimate competition for the sim enthusiast and casual users on the system. They will both chip away at GT sales and with any luck, push them to do a better job than they are doing now. Competition breeds success, innovation, ingenuity and makes everyone better. PCars and DriveClub won't sell 10 million copies that's a given, but at a couple of million each they are a runaway success and with better financing for part 2, who knows what they can come up with? I look forward to it, as should anyone that is a sim racing enthusiast.

Your comparison with GT5 is correct.

However, people are buying a lot more copies of GT6 than they did Forza Motorsport 4. First ten weeks 1.98 million vs 1.55 million for FM4.

So tell me why Polyphony Digital is doomed? Has Turn 10 folded yet?

Excuse me for getting out of here, the sky is falling.

Sales vs. Forza are irrelevant, it means nothing, zero. If GT sold 15 million copies and Forza 20 million I'm sure Kaz would be ecstatic. If GT6 sells 4 Million and Forza 5 only 2 million, Kaz will be crying in his saki. The budget for GT is huge. It needs huge sales just to break even. It needs huge sales to finance the next version of the game. Selling 3 or 4 million units won't cut it and outside of digital sales, it looks like that's what they may be headed for with GT6.

 

[eSZee]

but somehow they never seem to touch Forza or Gran Turismo's coattails. And Forza, for all its goodies, still falls in a very long Gran Turismo shadow.

You guys can proclaim doom and gloom all you like, but the world votes with its monies every release, and GT just keeps on trucking no matter what. And a big reason why is in my post above.

To people with that mentality, nothing will ever come close to beating GT because GT can almost do no wrong.
Brand loyalty.

 

[GBO Possum]

Sales vs. Forza are irrelevant, it means nothing, zero.

Right. "The budget for GT is huge". I was unable to determine their actual budget numbers.

According to Wikipedia, "Turn 10 is made up of over 300 employees as of the release of Forza Motorsport 3 in 2009."

Also according to Wikipedia, Polyphony Digital has "140+" employees.

According to http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/index.html Polyphony Digital has "Approx. 110" employees.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Right. "The budget for GT is huge". I was unable to determine their actual budget numbers.

According to Wikipedia, "Turn 10 is made up of over 300 employees as of the release of Forza Motorsport 3 in 2009."

Also according to Wikipedia, Polyphony Digital has "140+" employees.

According to http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/index.html Polyphony Digital has "Approx. 110" employees.

Google:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/gran-turismo-5-sporting-60-million-budget/1100-6239328/

Speaking to the magazine, Polyphony Digital head Kazunori Yamauchi said the budget for the game is around $60 million. That makes it among the most expensive games ever made-...

 

[Zelalem]

Your comparison with GT5 is correct.

However, people are buying a lot more copies of GT6 than they did Forza Motorsport 4. First ten weeks 1.98 million vs 1.55 million for FM4.

So tell me why Polyphony Digital is doomed? Has Turn 10 folded yet?


Excuse me for getting out of here, the sky is falling.

PD has a problem in the long term, if GT continues to sell less than its predecessor. Like GT6 for example did.

 

[Brutaka]

PD has a problem in the longterm, if GT continues to sell less than its predecessor. Like GT6 for example did.

There's less of a mainstream Interest in car games now. FPS games now rule. I doubt any future GT will sell much past what GT5 achieved.

 

[AudiMan2011]

There's less of a mainstream Interest in car games now. FPS games now rule. I doubt any future GT will sell much past what GT5 achieved.

I think there's less of an interest in mainstream gaming in general since the majority of major franchises (CoD, Halo, Resident Evil etc) have seen slumping sales in this console generation as more people have switched to gaming on mobile phones and tablets.

 

[GBO Possum]

PD has a problem in the long term, if GT continues to sell less than its predecessor. Like GT6 for example did.

Maybe. Possibly we are just looking at the sales results of the swansong release. FM4 sold fewer units than FM3. Maybe it's just a natural relativity of sales numbers for swansong releases.

I have no idea what all the factors are, however, it looks like PD has a profitable game on its hands in GT6 based on early sales numbers. Not as high as GT5 revenues, but then GT5 required a lot more development work than GT6. Yamauichi-san has stated that they threw away the GT4 code and started again in GT5. That's costly. Some GT6 code is taken from GT5 with a different wrapper, and other internal changes. GT7 will require a totally new code base, bringing PD back into the high cost phase for this version. If there's a GT8 on the PS4, then the cycle begins again.

I suspect that while GT5 needed high volumes to make decent project profits, GT6, by reusing many GT5 assets under the covers, becomes the profitable cash cow to fund GT7 development.

A big part of GT5 costs was the underlying PS3-based "operating system" as Yamauchi-san calls it. That's the code which real-time manages all the asynchronous stuff that the game demands and sits as a layer between the PS3 system code and the higher level functional code. That stuff is very hard to design, to write and to test, and contributes a lot to costs.

Sure, GT6 behaves better performance-wise than most of GT5, and that's no doubt a result of tweaking the old GT5 code. But it was not a rewrite and didn't require the huge learning curve which all the PS3 developers had to go through for their first PS3 development projects.

Bottom line, I still don't think the sky is falling in, and I firmly believe that GT6 will prove itself to be PD's mainstay until GT7 profitability kicks in big time. The only people who will know how it went are inside PD.

 

[Zuku]

I think there's less of an interest in mainstream gaming in general since the majority of major franchises (CoD, Halo, Resident Evil etc) have seen slumping sales in this console generation as more people have switched to gaming on mobile phones and tablets.

That and I think people have finally hit that wall of realization that "It's the same thing over and over again for $60" tack on micro(marco)-transactions and yeah.

I had to agree with others on here though GT7 is going to take a lot of heat thanks to GT5/GT6 under-performing like I said word of mouth gets around quick.

I've already told a few of my friends don't even bother with GT6 as it really is just a steaming pile of 🤬 at this point. At least till these updates come through.

 

[lancia delta hf]

I'll laugh if pCARS can't come to consoles but only PC. Does it even have customization? Because I'm pretty sure that's what everyone loves in racing games.

Why would you laugh? This makes no sense unless GT is your baby and yes i think you can customise cars in Pcars

 

[ildd]

Why would you laugh? This makes no sense unless GT is your baby and yes i think you can customise cars in Pcars

Because they've been screaming at people that it'll be in ps4 and x1 and wii u... And in the beginning they said ps3

 

[Johnnypenso]

Why would you laugh? This makes no sense unless GT is your baby and yes i think you can customise cars in Pcars

Features for the retail version of the game are not yet finalized...don't want to get anyone's hopes up

For anyone interested, there is an entire forum here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/project-cars/

 

[Tenacious D]

What people are saying is that PCars and DriveClub on PS4 are legitimate competition for the sim enthusiast and casual users on the system. They will both chip away at GT sales and with any luck, push them to do a better job than they are doing now.

GT5 was chipped away down to... about 11 million in sales.

What GT6 will do ultimately is anyone's guess, but I'd imagine somewhere around GT5's sales figures, because PS3 is going to be around for a while. And in spite of how great other racers are in some ways, there just isn't anything quite like Gran Turismo.

Sales vs. Forza are irrelevant, it means nothing, zero.

It's funny how sales only matters when it suits the argument. For supposedly good games, sales figures are a validation. For supposedly bad games, sales are irrelevant. Whatever.

To people with that mentality, nothing will ever come close to beating GT because GT can almost do no wrong.
Brand loyalty.

In the case of Gran Turismo, it seems to have brand loyalty because in spite of critics complaining about what it doesn't have, the rest of the world is pretty darn happy with what it does.

 

[daus26]

In the case of Gran Turismo, it seems to have brand loyalty because in spite of critics complaining about what it doesn't have, the rest of the world is pretty darn happy with what it does.

I'd personally agree, but I wouldn't say the world cause it seems a lot of people don't appreciate what GT has and only focuses on the flaws. But yeah, a lot of what GT does are things not a lot of other racing games do. Once they get their fix with the sound and A.I., I believe that would seal everything. And oh, livery editor. That's all that separates PD from total domination; A.I, sounds, and damage. GT already has the content (cars/tracks), does weather, day/night (stunning at that), and a bunch of perks like Course Maker, Snow/Dirt Rally, Fuel Consumption, etc. that are absent in the PS3/360 generation of sim racing, but no matter how great they are, they're easily overshadowed by A.I. and Sound.

Also, I really doubt GT6 will reach GT5 figures. The PS3 may be around for a longer time, but once GT7 arrives, the attention might go there. Plus, PD has limited servers, so they might not support GT6 long enough to reach GT5's sales figures.

 

[Johnnypenso]

GT5 was chipped away down to... about 11 million in sales.

What does this have to do with looking forward to increased competition on PS4?

What GT6 will do ultimately is anyone's guess, but I'd imagine somewhere around GT5's sales figures, because PS3 is going to be around for a while.

VGChartz says differently.

It's funny how sales only matters when it suits the argument. For supposedly good games, sales figures are a validation. For supposedly bad games, sales are irrelevant. Whatever.

Wonderful strawman argument and complete nonsense. All that matters is how many total units you sell and the average price. What another game does on another console makes absolutely no difference to PD or Sony's bottom line. If GT6 sales are half GT5 sales which is where it looks like it's headed so far, it matters not a bit whether Forza sells 1 or 1 billion copies.

In the case of Gran Turismo, it seems to have brand loyalty because in spite of critics complaining about what it doesn't have, the rest of the world is pretty darn happy with what it does.

Last time I checked, 2 million people don't represent the world, and again, VGChartz says differently.

 

[eSZee]

It's funny how sales only matters when it suits the argument. For supposedly good games, sales figures are a validation. For supposedly bad games, sales are irrelevant. Whatever.

He said VS forza they are irrelevant, not that they are irrelevant as a whole. Compare almost any game to GT when it comes to sales and it would fall short. Does that mean GT is better, not absolutely not.
GT5 was disappointing, I still bought GT6. GT6 is woeful and I'll probably buy GT7. Brand loyalty or stupidity or both.
Hook them with the first couple of titles and they'll throw money at anything GT branded.
Should we use current sales numbers vs GT5 or is that irrelevant?
Let's come back here in 2 years, 3 years, 5 years, and see how well GT6 did or didn't sell.

In the case of Gran Turismo, it seems to have brand loyalty because in spite of critics complaining about what it doesn't have, the rest of the world is pretty darn happy with what it does.

Poor sales=rest of the world is happy.
👍

 

[TokoTurismo]

Why would you laugh? This makes no sense unless GT is your baby and yes i think you can customise cars in Pcars

Haha. Hahaha. I really love how you brought up "GT", based on my post. Oops, I'm laughing right now. And you "think" there's customization in pCARS? Meaning, "body customization"? I doubt it. xD

 

[Mubble]

What's with all the sales figures gossip?

Unless we know what PD's corporate sales and revenue targets for GT6 were, we're nothing more than an internet forum speculating about things which we don't understand.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What's with all the sales figures gossip?

Unless we know what PD's corporate sales and revenue targets for GT6 were, we're nothing more than an internet forum speculating about things which we don't understand.

That's the entire purpose of GTPlanet mate

 

[eSZee]

Haha. Hahaha. I really love how you brought up "GT", based on my post. Oops, I'm laughing right now. And you "think" there's customization in pCARS? Meaning, "body customization"? I doubt it. xD

I wonder if mods made for the PC version will be transferable to the consoles?
They're all running the same architecture/x86/dx, right?

 

[Mr P510]

I wonder if mods made for the PC version will be transferable to the consoles?
They're all running the same architecture/x86/dx, right?

I doubt it very much...don't get your hope up.

 

[Tenacious D]

What does this have to do with looking forward to increased competition on PS4?

History and stuff.

VGChartz says differently.

While VGChartz is a good resource for historical data, there isn't much GT6 "history" yet. And Europe, GT's biggest market, is enshrouded in data fog and may be for a while.[/quote]

Also, I really doubt GT6 will reach GT5 figures. The PS3 may be around for a longer time, but once GT7 arrives, the attention might go there. Plus, PD has limited servers, so they might not support GT6 long enough to reach GT5's sales figures.

This may well be true, but we'll just have to live some more history to see what does happen.

 

[Johnnypenso]

While VGChartz is a good resource for historical data, there isn't much GT6 "history" yet. And Europe, GT's biggest market, is enshrouded in data fog and may be for a while.

Do you have a reference for this data fog? I consider 10 weeks a lot of history, since more than half of GT5 sales came in the first 10 weeks. I see no reason at this point to think GT6's sales pattern will be any different, especially when you consider it's on a dying console. But if you have some proof the European data is somehow unreliable feel free to share it. Would this imply that it's poor performance in N. America and Asia is accurate?

 

[glassjaw]

The thing we have to keep in mind is regardless of whether you like GT6 or not, Sony clearly failed to promote GT6 the same way they did previous games in the series. All of Sony's attention has been focused on the PS4 since November, and although I understand the decision to take advantage of the PS3's superior install base, install base numbers are irrelevant if you don't promote and create hype. I would say GT6's poor sales have a great deal to do with that lack of advertising, perhaps even more so than the actual quality of the game itself.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The thing we have to keep in mind is regardless of whether you like GT6 or not, Sony clearly failed to promote GT6 the same way they did previous games in the series. All of Sony's attention has been focused on the PS4 since November, and although I understand the decision to take advantage of the PS3's superior install base, install base numbers are irrelevant if you don't promote and create hype. I would say GT6's poor sales have a great deal to do with that lack of advertising, perhaps even more so than the actual quality of the game itself.

Do you think there is a single person on the entire planet that bought GT5 and isn't aware that there is a GT6?

 

[glassjaw]

Do you think there is a single person on the entire planet that bought GT5 and isn't aware that there is a GT6?

They might be aware now, they might not - remember, the rest of the world isn't like us. But whether or not they know now is only half the story. You cannot underestimate the importance of building hype and good marketing. Even at my most cynical, even if I know a game is coming out months in advance, my opinion of it and likelihood of buying it will be more positive if it's promoted effectively. That's true of everyone, no question - even if you consider yourself immune to all persuasion. I've heard industry journalists talk about how shocked they were at Sony's lack of promotion, and that it instilled negative predictions about the quality of the game. You can't completely discount it as a factor.

Now, if you want to argue that GT5 was poorer than previous entries and left a bad taste in many players' mouths, leading to worse GT6 sales, that's a completely different - but also completely valid - argument. But if we're talking exclusively about GT6 isolated and on its own, Sony clearly didn't do enough.

 

[daus26]

I doubt the quality of the game has a big affect on the sales either. By big, I mean several millions less big.

This may well be true, but we'll just have to live some more history to see what does happen.

Speaking of history, the GT series has never had to deal with new generation of consoles. GT6 released AFTER a new generation console that is the PS4. With rumors of GT7p and GT7 between 1-2 years away, it's a new situation that doesn't exactly favor GT6 sales. GT2 had a good two years to sell before GT3 arrived. GT4 had a good year before the PS3 arrived, and 2-3 years before GT5p came out. GT6 should be compared to GT2 and GT4, the second of the series per generation, and it's always behind the sales of the first. With that said, and the added fact that it's released cross generation, it just doesn't look good for me. Like I said before, previous GTs didn't have to deal with server issues either. I think 5 million would be the mark before it slowly trickles to a stop.

If GT5 took about 3 years to reach 11m, then GT6 would need at least 4 if history indicates anything. In 4 years time, GT6 will seriously be outdated. With GT6 sales selling less than half the pace of GT5 so far, what miracle can make GT6 reach close to GT5 sales?

 

[lancia delta hf]

Haha. Hahaha. I really love how you brought up "GT", based on my post. Oops, I'm laughing right now.

Still doesnt explain why you would laugh id Pcars failed, Dont you like racing games or want more than one non arcadey race game to choose from?

And you "think" there's customization in pCARS? Meaning, "body customization"? I doubt it. xD

GT6 has body customisation, Untill the other night i hadnt touched GT6 for 2 months, Customisation doesnt make GT a better game than what it is and lack of body customisation wont degrade Pcars if they focus on gameplay and get they're priorities right unlike PD

 

[TokoTurismo]

Still doesnt explain why you would laugh id Pcars failed, Dont you like racing games or want more than one non arcadey race game to choose from?

Yes, I do. Although I'll be waiting for reviews first though.

 

[jakeBG18]

Do you think there is a single person on the entire planet that bought GT5 and isn't aware that there is a GT6?

Yes actually.Almost all my gt5 friends had no idea gt6 was coming until they seen i was playing it.Like I said in another thread,I never seen one commercial or internet ad for gt6 in Canada.If I wasn't a huge fan/longtime follower I wouldve never known.