Russian Invasion of Ukraine

  • Thread starter Rage Racer
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🤬 is getting real serious in Slaviansk (Donetsk Oblast). The anti-government militia is getting armed with AK rifles.
http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-violence-slavyansk-240/
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There was a stickup already and at least 1 dead (they say it's an SBU officer) and one rebel wounded. Possibly a provokation from Right Sector. They came in a car with plates of Vinnitsia (west of the country). Video after the incident (content warning)

Kiev is about to launch a 'full-scale counter-terrorist operation'.
http://rt.com/news/donetsk-kharkov-protest-ukraine-280/
 
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UN Security Council are currently sitting to discuss the situation.

It seems likely to a cynical mind that the protests in the East are provoked and/or sponsored by Russian interests, if not by Russia herself. A civil rebellion in the East of Ukraine followed by 'democratic' elections has to demand the same legitimacy as the same events in Kiev.

The difficulty for many people is that they simply don't trust Russia's style of democracy.

I consider myself to be European and don't see Russians as being any further from myself than Spaniards or whatever the other one's called*. That said, something about the situation makes me instinctively distrust the Russian government. What horrifies me is that I'm not sure if that's just the product of years of gentle indoctrination.

There, I've said it. Deploy the mind-probe...



*Bloody hell, it was a joke! :D
 
TenEightyOne
Any way, Australia have a fine excuse to duck any role in World War III.
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What do you mean? We still haven't found it - no matter what the Prime Minister told the Chinese Premier when he was trying to finalise a free trade agreement with China after inadvertently upsetting China for not condemning a Japanese delegation for visiting a war memorial, given the Japanese atrocities in Manchuria.

We seem to have gone backwards. At this point, we are less qualified to resolve the situation in Ukraine than Viktor Yanukovych.
 
TenEightyOne
A civil rebellion in the East of Ukraine followed by 'democratic' elections has to demand the same legitimacy as the same events in Kiev.
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One hates to quote oneself, but this is exactly the argument that Vitaly Churkin is making to the UN right now.

* @Rage Racer or @SMfan, hopefully you can correct me on the name or tell me who he is :)
 
He does have a point. The whole inciting incident in Kiev really divided the country. This wasn't a case of the people wanting one thing and the government doing the opposite. There were always supporters of Ukraine establishing closer ties with Russia. That doesn't excuse the actions of Moscow, but if the people who supported EU integration had a right to feel aggrieved when Yanukovych moved in the direction of Russia, then surely the people who supported that move toward Russia have a right to feel aggrieved if the new government are targeting EU integration.
 
prisonermonkeys
He does have a point. The whole inciting incident in Kiev really divided the country. This wasn't a case of the people wanting one thing and the government doing the opposite. There were always supporters of Ukraine establishing closer ties with Russia. That doesn't excuse the actions of Moscow, but if the people who supported EU integration had a right to feel aggrieved when Yanukovych moved in the direction of Russia, then surely the people who supported that move toward Russia have a right to feel aggrieved if the new government are targeting EU integration.
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Another time I have to remind that it's not about EU integration anymore. Yatsenyuk declined the agreement, too.

This is about the new government in general. The east is rising against the 'junta' because:

- They came in power illegally and with violence.

- They are making idiotic laws and rolling the country even deeper into ####.

- They want credits from the West, but it's not clear how they're going to pay them back, unless they don't sell the country itself. They already intend to cut the pensions and raise the taxes.

- Isolation from Russia. "Visas with RF?! That would sound impossible a year ago! My mother lives in Rostov-on-Don, so she needs a visa to visit me now?!"

- The east also sees the new regime as nazis who honor Stepan Bandera and want to ban Russian language (that is not so true). "**** you, fascists, you won't stop me from speaking my language! My grandfather was fighting the Nazis in the '40s not for you following that Bandera scum!"
See the orange/black bands on the eastern rebels? That's the St. George Ribbon, the symbol of the victory in the WW2 and an anti-nazi symbol.
 
Rage Racer
Another time I have to remind that it's not about EU integration anymore.
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I'm aware of that. The point is that all of this started with a country divided over an important domestic issue, but the Western media have been trying to make the current situation out to be an opportunistic land grab by the Russians operating covertly and claiming the support of the public when nobody really wants it.
 
TenEightyOne
I consider myself to be European and don't see Russians as being any further from myself than Spaniards or whatever the other one's called*. That said, something about the situation makes me instinctively distrust the Russian government. What horrifies me is that I'm not sure if that's just the product of years of gentle indoctrination.
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I don't distrust the Ruskies any more than I do my own government. At least you know for sure when somebody told a secret after they mysteriously disappear. You don't get that kind of reverse confirmation in the States.

Pretty sure you distrust of them is caused by anti-Soviet propaganda throughout your life. You're German I take it?
 
The civil war is on!
Ukrainian army started the "counter-terrorist operation" against the militia in Slaviansk.
A battle is going on in Kramatorsk, reports of a few wounded militiamen.
 
Rage Racer
The civil war is on!
Ukrainian army started the "counter-terrorist operation" against the militia in Slaviansk.
A battle is going on in Kramatorsk, reports of a few wounded militiamen.
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Sorry, but I cannot believe it. Kiev cannot be so stupid as to expect either (a) victory or (b) the carnage of civil war, or (c) provocation of the Russian bear to invade. On the other hand, to sit and do nothing while 9 eastern cities are in open revolt is also a hopeless option. How do you say "screwed" in Russian?
 
Dotini
Sorry, but I cannot believe it. Kiev cannot be so stupid as to expect either (a) victory or (b) the carnage of civil war, or (c) provocation of the Russian bear to invade. On the other hand, to sit and do nothing while 9 eastern cities are in open revolt is also a hopeless option. How do you say "screwed" in Russian?
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You don't have to believe it but what he said, I just got that from the radio..
 
Dotini
Sorry, but I cannot believe it.
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I do. This is real. Yesterday, the Maidan protestors in Kiev - Right Sector - blocked the Rada, demanding the parliament to start the operation. I have seen this on the live video stream, and my friend from Kiev confirms it.
Arsen Avakov, the internal affairs minister, vowed: "I'll clear the east within 48 hours or shoot myself."
Looks like Right Sector is the real power in Kiev, not Rada.

Jet fighters are flying low above Slaviansk.
A Mi-24 chopper shot at militia group on an airfield in Kramatorsk, some are hit, but no reports of victims. They say it was possibly blindfire to scare the militia off.

How do you say "screwed" in Russian?
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"Zhopa". Literally means "ass", but also used as "it's screwed".

EDIT: lol, the militia captured a tank (T-64) yesterday, using a yellow Lada Niva. It's a new anti-tank weapon. :D
 
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As entertaining as an east/west shooting war might be, I doubt it based on what CNN is showing: a small column of old, rusty tanks moving spasmodically at maybe 1 mph, blocked even from moving out of the west by individuals Tiananmen-style, and small mobs of loud men.
 
Dotini
As entertaining as an east/west shooting war might be, I doubt it based on what CNN is showing: a small column of old, rusty tanks moving spasmodically at maybe 1 mph, blocked even from moving out of the west by individuals Tiananmen-style, and small mobs of loud men.
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The civilians are trying to stop the army. Sometimes they do stop them, sometimes they don't.


Meanwhile:
Ukrainian army units enter Slavyansk... under Russian flags.
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^The soldier in the middle, wearing a helmet, looks like he's from the disbanded Berkut force.
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^BMD-3 drifting, lol.

They paid the rebels a friendly visit, left their equipment, guns and BMDs here, dressed into civilian clothes and left the city - a militia commander said.
Which means, they supported the rebels, but refused to fight for them. And refused to fight against them, too.
Some other army units in Luhansk are defecting to the self-proclaimed Donetsk Republic, according to the media.
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27072351#

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said that all sides have agreed to steps to "de-escalate" the crisis in Ukraine at talks in Geneva.

He was speaking at the end of the talks between Russia, Ukraine, the EU and US in the Swiss city.

Ukraine has been in crisis since the toppling of its pro-Moscow president in February.

This was followed by the seizing of government buildings in eastern Ukraine by pro-Russian separatists.

Mr Lavrov said there was agreement that all illegal military formations in Ukraine must be dissolved, and that everyone occupying buildings must be disarmed and leave them.

He added that there would be an amnesty for all protesters under the agreement.

Mr Lavrov said the crisis must be settled by Ukrainians themselves and there must be long-term constitutional reforms.
 
My twitter feed just exploded with breaking stories that 'Jews are being forced to register in East Ukraine'.

Does anyone know about or have anything concrete on this?
 
Complete unsubstantiated BS. Been following this on CNN for hours.

A few leaflets of unknown provenance were circulated then quickly seized.
 
Liquid
My twitter feed just exploded with breaking stories that 'Jews are being forced to register in East Ukraine'.

Does anyone know about or have anything concrete on this?
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I read a quick article on it and I figured it HAD to be a hoax. Thankfully it was but I wonder who even started it.
 
Liquid
My twitter feed just exploded with breaking stories that 'Jews are being forced to register in East Ukraine'.

Does anyone know about or have anything concrete on this?
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Nope. No reports about antisemithism yet. Besides, I don't see any point, who can force Jews to register in the east, and why?

@Dotini
The talks in Geneva were successful (especially for Russia - Crimea wasn't mentioned, hehe), but the situation in Donbass is still tense. Tonight, 3 people were killed and 13 were wonded by fire of the Ukrainian National Guard in Mariupol.
http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/
I doubt that militia of Donetsk Republic will agree to disarm so easily after this.

Edit: Ukrainian MiG-29 fighter flying low above the troops.
 
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I wouldn't be surprised if those stories were grossly exaggerated for the sake of having a story now that some kind of resolution has been found. Some parts of the media have been secretly hoping for some kind of open conflict for a while now. Sure, they had a Jewish leader see a picture and call it "chilling", but how do we know he didn't say "it's chilling if it's true", and then had his comments taken out of context?

This might be a weird analogy, but I am reminded of Frank Miller's THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, where the media is presented in such a way that the story is secondary to the one telling it. It doesn't matter what the story is - it is more important for the journalists to be seen reporting it, and with that, they become these pseudo-rock stars. The whole thing is very jarring, very well-executed, and really rather prophetic - twenty-five years after it was written, journalists do exactly that. News becomes entertainment, with more emphasis on the person presenting it than the actual content, and with a conscience being a liability in the pursuit of ratings, unscrupulous journalists will show no qualms about running a headline like NAZI GERMANY RETURNS IN THE UKRAINE simply because it will get more readers and/or viewers.

There is no news in Pravda, and no truth in Izvestia.
 
The story does have a foundation in truth. Pushilin's press sectary, Aleksander Kriakov, is a well known anti-Semite according to Rabbi Vyshedski, the leader of the local synagogue. He is just high enough to distribute the flyers, but not much else as The Daily Beast investigated the room that the supposed "Jew Fee" was supposed to be collected, but found nothing.

If it was Pushilin himself who distributed the flyers, then he pulled one smart of a denial job.
 
Sanji Himura
The story does have a foundation in truth. Pushilin's press sectary, Aleksander Kriakov, is a well known anti-Semite according to Rabbi Vyshedski, the leader of the local synagogue. He is just high enough to distribute the flyers, but not much else as The Daily Beast investigated the room that the supposed "Jew Fee" was supposed to be collected, but found nothing.

If it was Pushilin himself who distributed the flyers, then he pulled one smart of a denial job.
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Source?
 
Anti-nazi activists register Jews? That's weird. As the article says, it could be a provocation.

P.S. What I heard, is that defecting Ukrainian soldiers were hungry. They weren't fed properly in the army, some didn't eat for 3 days.
Seems like that BMD driver doing burnouts (video above) was happy because the rebels finally fed him. :D
dWdIHUFSrsI.jpg
 
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Which seems to me that supplies may have gotten through any blockade or siege that the pro government forces may have erected around the rebels.
 
Tonight, Slavyansk was attacked by a Right Sector squad, as the media reports. 4 dead on the DR side, and 3 RS members were killed by return fire.
But... the video from LifeNews is kinda weird. They show some items found on the wounded Right Sector member - dollars, MG42 (WWII German machine gun, clean as new, from museum?) and... a calling card of Dmytro Yarosh (the Right Sector leader)?
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^This looks idiotic. Propaganda?

Meanwhile, it turns out that the DR militia has 9K111 anti-tank missile systems. That's a serious weapon.
Video (don't laugh on the missile name, haha).
 

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