Russian Invasion of Ukraine

  • Thread starter Rage Racer
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Famine
That's already a type of bullfrog.
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In the less-imaginative southern US, they're River Rats.

However, this gives me the excuse to talk about hellbenders, which have all sorts of wonderful names. Even the Latin name is a hoot.

Sorry, back to the awful news. Muskrat love, not war.
 
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Not only the kills but also the amount of destroyed material.

I'm guessing that they're no longer taking prisoners.
 
Dennisch
Not only the kills but also the amount of destroyed material.

I'm guessing that they're no longer taking prisoners.
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The BBC are running a story that the Wagner Group really is allowing prisoner conscripts to return home after 6 months of service; rapists and murderers are apparently walking the streets in the towns in which they committed crimes as free men. The horror felt by victims and their families must be awful if this is true.

Perhaps targeting mercenaries is a specific target.
 
Liquid
The BBC are running a story that the Wagner Group really is allowing prisoner conscripts to return home after 6 months of service; rapists and murderers are apparently walking the streets in the towns in which they committed crimes as free men. The horror felt by victims and their families must be awful if this is true.

Perhaps targeting mercenaries is a specific target.
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I wonder if they're also counting the times that the mercs turn on each other, despite (supposedly) fighting for the same side...

www.bbc.com

Notorious Russian nationalist Igor Mangushev shot dead in Ukraine

Igor Mangushev was shot in the head and his killing sparks speculation about who was to blame.
www.bbc.com

He was later known to have collaborated with Russia's most notorious mercenary boss, Yevgeny Prigozhin, as a political strategist.

The shooting has prompted widespread speculation about who might have carried out the attack at a checkpoint in the occupied Ukrainian town of Kadiivka, some distance from the frontline.

Russian reports said he had been shot at close range with a 9mm bullet fired into the top of his head at an angle of 45 degrees. Russian authorities are investigating the killing and have so far said nothing about the circumstances.

Another extreme Russian nationalist, Pavel Gubarev, said everyone knew who was behind the shooting and observed that Prigozhin had for the moment gone quiet.
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Liquid
The BBC are running a story that the Wagner Group really is allowing prisoner conscripts to return home after 6 months of service; rapists and murderers are apparently walking the streets in the towns in which they committed crimes as free men. The horror felt by victims and their families must be awful if this is true.

Perhaps targeting mercenaries is a specific target.
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It doesn't work like this. They should come back at frontline in few weeks. Only way is to get out of country.
Carbonox
New record? A humble 1140 orcs in a day.
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There are video confirmation of stupidest attack near Vuhledar.
EngieDiesel
wonder if they're also counting the times that the mercs turn on each other, despite (supposedly) fighting for the same side...
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Russian sources saying that few Vagner ex prisoners rob him and when they understand who is he - shoot him dead. That why Vagner cant take prisoners from prison, instead Russian MoD have this magic ability to generate cannon fodder.
 
inCloud
Its copium. Neutral flag thing is a biiiig middle finger to Putler and turbopatriots.
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Apparently it wasn't enough, and we have way past the point where mood of athletes weights in the balance when people are dying by the thousand daily. I'm for leaving politic out of Olympic Games, but it's not politic, it's actual war.
inCloud
Is there something like these after Yugoslavian massacre? I don't think so. For the most part, almost everyone ok with Serbs. We all should keep in mind that less than 1% of our population actually participate in war. Sure, war criminals should go to jail and we as a country should pay for what our government did.
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I'm not sure people will consider a whatabout card, especially since Serbians weren't conducting an hybrid war against western countries as Russia is doing for years.

The % of participation is far less relevant than support %. And when i see how the majority of Russian that lives here in Paris does not condemn Putin, i have reasons to be concerned of actual support in Russia.
Anyway, Russia is a sovereign country, and it can't be sovereign and not responsible. Russian population needs to start actively involve itself in politic, and not let power in the hand of a gang mafia and nationalists for so long crossing fingers it won't end too badly for those who stayed away from politic.
I'm aware it's easier to say than to do, and certainly easier to say from outside. And it's certainly not targeted to you. But i don't see a better path for both Russians and the rest of the world (including people in countries leaving that supports Putin) to get out of the current situation.

Here's a situation, purely hypothetical since Ukraine doesn't have what would be needed: for every Russian bomb/missile/drone strike on Ukraine soil, one would be sent on RF soil, for every building destruction in Ukraine, one would be destroyed in RF.
1. Would you have a moral problem with that?
2. Do you think it could help to the demise of Putin, or at least to protect Ukrainians?
Anyone here can answer these questions, actually...
 
Milouse
Here's a situation, purely hypothetical since Ukraine doesn't have what would be needed: for every Russian bomb/missile/drone strike on Ukraine soil, one would be sent on RF soil, for every building destruction in Ukraine, one would be destroyed in RF.
1. Would you have a moral problem with that?
2. Do you think it could help to the demise of Putin, or at least to protect Ukrainians?
Anyone here can answer these questions, actually...
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I have a problem with that.
Civilian objects on Russian territory must not be attacked, because this will only lead to an increase in popular support for Putin.
The only way to remove him from power is for his support among the population to drop drastically, and people to remove him from power, which will most likely not be done peacefully and will result in casualties, but it must be done if Russians want a better future.
If they don't, eventually some other idiot like the current one will become president.
 
Milouse
Apparently it wasn't enough
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Demonization of ordinary Russian citizens wouldn't help. It would separate us from Europe and democratic values even more. Civilized world should give Russians platform for antiwar statements. I can't imagine more suitable platform for this than Olimpics.
Milouse
The % of participation is far less relevant than support %
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We don't have any relevant sociology from RF. Right now 95%+ of respondents dont want to answer questions(considering 7 years in jail for antiwar statements its understandable). Out of 5% that want to answer we have 60/20/20 split.

On the other hand we have messed mobilization numbers. Russians don't want to participate.
Milouse
Russian population needs to start actively involve itself in politic
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Sure.
Milouse
Here's a situation, purely hypothetical since Ukraine doesn't have what would be needed
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Its false dilemma. Ukraine don't want to bomb Russian territory (only as a counter offence acts). And I dont see any reason why they would do it.
 
Scaff
Do you honestly think it would be used for this?
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Suggestion was - Russian athletes should be able to participate in Olimpics under neutral flag if they made antiwar statements.
Jimlaad43
Hmm yes, the platform is definitely only going to be used for anti-war statements
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Statements-> participation
 
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inCloud
Suggestion was - Russian athletes should be able to participate in Olimpics under neutral flag if they made antiwar statements.

Statements-> participation
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The issue is, would Russia even let them participate if they did so?
 
inCloud
Suggestion was - Russian athletes should be able to participate in Olimpics under neutral flag if they made antiwar statements.
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That's not where the IOC is on this subject, under a neutral flag, and as neutral individuals is the current stance.

The issue with that is being neutral always favours the aggressor
 
super_gt
The only way to remove him from power is for his support among the population to drop drastically
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How many more deaths do they need? It's hopeless.
inCloud
Its false dilemma. Ukraine don't want to bomb Russian territory (only as a counter offence acts). And I dont see any reason why they would do it.
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It's not a dilemma. It's an hypothesis, you don't have anything to choose, just to answer a simple, moral question, then a practical independent one:
Milouse
Here's a situation, purely hypothetical since Ukraine doesn't have what would be needed: for every Russian bomb/missile/drone strike on Ukraine soil, one would be sent on RF soil, for every building destruction in Ukraine, one would be destroyed in RF.
1. Would you have a moral problem with that?
2. Do you think it could help to the demise of Putin, or at least to protect Ukrainians?
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On a side note, Russia, via Wagner, is spreading hate campaings towards France in Africa. Their last two clips, which speaks with a tone to Africans like they are 8 years old:

French depicted as rats:
image.jpg


French depicted as Zombies:
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These add to:
  • cyber attacks against our hospitals
  • war crimes fabrication also in Africa
  • an attempt to corrupt french Youtubers to spread lies about Covid vaccines
  • the constant flow of Russian trolls on social networks.

A least, Russia Today France eventually ceased its operations. Their chief editor was a former colleague, which i replaced from the position he left in our common company, 15 years ago...
 
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If the internet is correct, we've reached this point in the war. Just try to overwhelm the Ukrainians with massive amount of cannon fodder. Those Western weapons need to get there faster, and in bigger numbers.
 
It's presently working in Donbas; the Russian frontline has moved westward every day for the past 3 weeks.

The one year "anniversary" is next week? I think there will be a major push by Russia.
 
inCloud
There is something weird with far leftists. For whatever reason they support far right regime. Similar situation with O.Stone.
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For me, Roger Waters has long since handed in his "far leftist" badge and just become a sad old incel. Pretty much anyone who claims to be a leftist but supports Russian aggression just isn't a leftist.
 
At the exact moment you're having a heart attack with no history of heart disease.
 
Dennisch
a9qqn1D_460s.jpg


If the internet is correct, we've reached this point in the war. Just try to overwhelm the Ukrainians with massive amount of cannon fodder. Those Western weapons need to get there faster, and in bigger numbers.
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apnews.com

NATO chief says Ukraine's ammunition use outstripping supply

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg says Ukraine is using up ammunition far faster than its allies can provide it just as Russia ramps up its military offensive.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
Aphelion
For me, Roger Waters has long since handed in his "far leftist" badge and just become a sad old incel. Pretty much anyone who claims to be a leftist but supports Russian aggression just isn't a leftist.
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Fair enough if you disagree with his stance, but none of that makes sense. For starters, holding a belief or ideology doesn't mean you support every outcome of holding those beliefs or ideals - in much the same way that supporting free speech doesn't mean you support hate speech.

As for Waters' views and how 'leftist' they are or aren't, his message and motivations currently seem the same as they have been for decades, and I'd suggest that a lot of those more greatly reflect left leaning views than right. There are of course instances where taking a more pacifistic approach to aggression is at odds with the notion of protecting the downtrodden - that's inevitable, in Waters' case it seems to me that leaning towards a more neutral position (which as Scaff points out above, unfortunately favours the aggressor in this instance) is the result of Waters disdain for Western military arrogance and foreign policy, and potentially also in part because in the back of Waters' mind (or the forefront of it - depending on which album you're listening to), is that the father he never knew died after abandoning his stance as a pacifist.

Whether you think he's right or wrong in his stance likely reflects where you stand on 'better dead than red' or 'better red than dead'. In crude terms, I'd say Waters very literally favours the latter, and that would firmly put him on the left in my opinion.

Also... "incel"... ? This is just getting on for "Everyone I don't like is Hitler" meme level debate.
 

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