Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[SMfan]

I'm no idiot, so I'm not gonna deny that the army attack civillians.

Airstrike in the center of Lugansk today. At least three people dead.

Supposed airstrike, so far. but definitely possible.

I'm not gonna say for sure that it wasn't an airstrike, but I have doubts.

There are 4 things about the vid/pic:

1 - There's what looks like a flash in the trees just before the explosion. May be a sign of an unfortunate shot from there.

2 - At the same time - you can see at least 3 explosions in the vid - something that is pretty hard to achieve with any sorta rocket launcher or whatever. There's theoretically a chance that a rocket form a launcher hit a car dragged it toward the building therefore creating what looks like multiple explosions, athough I have no idea if it's possible or not.

3 - There's some sorta trace in the upper-right corner of the gif just before impact - maybe it the bomb going down. Or there's just something wrong with the vid.

4 - If you look at the results of the explosion(-s) they don't look all that massive. I mean, compared to a "traditional" bomb drop, that leaves a giant hole in the groung/building, it's kinda small.


Also, is there any kind of launcher with separate charges? I don't think so, but I'm not a "typical militarist".

And that first vid of yours is from somewhere else. That plane clearly fires off a rocket and is most likely attacking one of the separatist checkpoints outside the city.
____________________________________

Btw, earlier today a group of separatists attacked a frontier post (forvie me for a possible wrong translation - used Google Translate ) near Lugansk. And they shot from just outside (confirmed) and inside (tolda by locals wihtout video/photo proof) people houses.

Most of the vids got taken down. so here's a couple that I've just found:



Warning - a guy gets shot in the head in the 2nd one. Not that it looks graphic or anything, he just falls and the vid stops.

 

[Rage Racer]

I'm no idiot, so I'm not gonna deny that the army attack civillians.

This is why I think THA KIDS are in danger.

1 - There's what looks like a flash in the trees just before the explosion. May be a sign of an unfortunate shot from there.

2 - At the same time - you can see at least 3 explosions in the vid - something that is pretty hard to achieve with any sorta rocket launcher or whatever. There's theoretically a chance that a rocket form a launcher hit a car dragged it toward the building therefore creating what looks like multiple explosions, athough I have no idea if it's possible or not.

3 - There's some sorta trace in the upper-right corner of the gif just before impact - maybe it the bomb going down. Or there's just something wrong with the vid.

4 - If you look at the results of the explosion(-s) they don't look all that massive. I mean, compared to a "traditional" bomb drop, that leaves a giant hole in the groung/building, it's kinda small.


Also, is there any kind of launcher with separate charges? I don't think so, but I'm not a "typical militarist".

It's a launch of rockets from NAR (non-guided aerial rocket) containers, I'm sure. Su-25 attack aircrafts carry them.

The 80mm S-8 NARs are small but powerful against human targets, and they don't destroy buildings so easily. Unlike some Maidummies may say "if it was the airstrike then half of the building would be in ruins!!111".

Got it? These are small rockets but they can be launched rapidly.
I'll try to find a video showing how they work.

And that first vid of yours is from somewhere else. That plane clearly fires off a rocket and is most likely attacking one of the separatist checkpoints outside the city.

No, I think it's a multiple NAR launch, too.

 

[SMfan]

It's a launch of rockets from NAR (non-guided aerial rocket) containers, I'm sure. Su-25 attack aircrafts carry them.

That would be "НУРС" in Russian, right?
And what do you think about the flash?

No, I think it's a multiple NAR launch, too.

Looks singular to me.

 

[Rage Racer]

That would be "НУРС" in Russian, right?

Kinda yes, but not exactly. It's НАР. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Неуправляемая_авиационная_ракета
НУРС is a wider term and it relates to ground-based rockets (like BM-21 Grad, etc) as well.

And what do you think about the flash?

I think it's a part of the earlier explosions in this chain, covered by those trees.

Looks singular to me.

A rapid launch of NARs may look singular from that distance because the rockets start pretty close to each other, but the distance of the launch provides the scatter we see on the ground.
This is how it looks from a closer look (Mi-24 chopper, but the rockets are the same kind).
Skip to 1:53.


Edit: more clear multiple launch from the Grach.

 

[SMfan]

Edit: more clear multiple launch from the Grach.

Why did someone add a voiceover to this vid? Pretty clear that it was added. Dramatic effect?

 

[Rage Racer]

Probably somebody did. But the vid itself doesn't look unreal or something.
The LifeNews news said that it was the launch of S-8 rockets (some parts of them are found on the scene) from a Su-25 attack aircraft. Completely matches my assumption. The jet on that vid is clearly a Grach. It's not a fighter ("истребитель") though, like many sources (and this vid's name) say.

 

[SMfan]

Probably somebody did. But the vid itself doesn't look unreal or something.

I'm not sure if the vid depicts the actual plane or not. It doesn't matter, though - since evidenxe from the scene can only suggest that an airstrike happened. Can't explain the multiple explosions otherwise.

The LifeNews news said that it was the launch of S-8 rockets (some parts of them are found on the scene) from a Su-25 attack aircraft. Completely matches my assumption. The jet on that vid is clearly a Grach. It's not a fighter ("истребитель") though, like many sources (and this vid's name) say.

 

[SMfan]

Here's a pretty nice text about the Kremlin troll army for alla ya non-Russian speakers.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america

 

[TenEightyOne]

Here's a pretty nice text about the Kremlin troll army for alla ya non-Russian speakers.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america

Haha, it's called "advertising", very normal in the West You can get the same kind of job here, running and spamming social media accounts in order to promote the online image of your client. I don't think there's any surprise that the Russian government do it to, and I'd be surprised to find that this was even new to them.

 

[SMfan]

Haha, it's called "advertising", very normal in the West You can get the same kind of job here, running and spamming social media accounts in order to promote the online image of your client. I don't think there's any surprise that the Russian government do it to, and I'd be surprised to find that this was even new to them.

You know, the process is very much exactly the same as with advertisement, but the goal is kinda more... evil?
It ain't new to them, I'd say, they've ve been doing that for about a decade, though the amount of money poured into that stuff has changed.

 

[Rage Racer]

RF Couch Forces? Yeah, they are real professionals
I am actually one of these soldiers, too. A volunteer.
But I usually do it on VK and for fun. It's really fun to troll the Ukrainian "maidummies".
Didn't try it on English speakers though...

 

[SMfan]

RF Couch Forces? Yeah, they are real professionals
I am actually one of these soldiers, too. A volunteer.
But I usually do it on VK and for fun. It's really fun to troll the Ukrainian "maidummies".
Didn't try it on English speakers though...

Ehh, at least you're an "idealist". Though, admittedly, I don't get how Ukrainians are any more stupid than Russians in this situation.
And, no, you're not one of these soldiers. Those MFers do the thing as a job. Hence they don't really care about what they're saying. Oh and don't forget that both you and I end uo paying for that crap. Schweet.

 

[Rage Racer]

Ehh, at least you're an "idealist". Though, admittedly, I don't get how Ukrainians are any more stupid than Russians in this situation.

Their brains are washed with the Ukrainian propaganda, a lot more idiotic than the Russian (which isn't full of truth, too). Many of those people still believe that the Lugansk administration building was hit by a portable SAM launched by militia. LOL. And Odessa protestors burnt themselves, and the "Sky hundred" was all shot by cops. Also, remember the An-30 with "humanitarian aid" taken down?

I don't play a vatnik, I troll from a position of an adequate man. I'm not a "Putin's slave" and I supported the anti-Yanukovich protests, but all that **** happened to the country wasn't worth it. And the government is just changed for another oligarch gang. Not much differnent from the Golden Toilet a.k.a. Yanyk.

Some of the maidummies are also bad at history, which makes them very tasty for trolling, too. For example, talking to a guy from Western Ukraine:

- You, moskals, employed Holodomor on us, killed millions of us!
- Where?
- In the place where I live! In Ternopil!
- But Ternopil was Polish back in 1932-33.
...
- DIE YOU KREMLIN WHORE!!!111

And, no, you're not one of these soldiers. Those MFers do the thing as a job. Hence they don't really care about what they're saying. Oh and don't forget that both you and I end uo paying for that crap. Schweet.

I told ya, I do it for fun.

 

[SMfan]

Their brains are washed with the Ukrainian propaganda, a lot more idiotic than the Russian (which isn't full of truth, too).

Right Sector everywhere... Jew-Nazis... Gay-propaganda... so on, so forth. No diff, dawg.
Oh and THE greatest argument for any and all topics: THESE BASTARDS WANNA TAKE OUR GREATNESS AWAYLnkjnklfmvlkglfvfm!!!!!

I don't play a vatnik, I troll from a position of an adequate man.

For some reason, about 70-80% of the problems you recognize are on the Ukrainian side.

I'm not a "Putin's slave" and I supported the anti-Yanukovich protests, but all that **** happened to the country wasn't worth it. And the government is just changed for another oligarch gang. Not much differnent from the Golden Toilet a.k.a. Yanyk.

Yanuk wasn't an oligarch in the beginning. Also, Maidan wasn't anti-oligarch in its core.
And again, neither of us can actually judge Poroshenko as president of Ukraine yet.

Some of the maidummies are also bad at history

And vatniks are, apparently good at it...
Both of us can give millions pf examples of really stupid people on both sides, dude. It's not even funny anymore. The fact is, there are lots of frickin idiots everywhere.

 

[Akira AC]

For some reason, about 70-80% of the problems you recognize are on the Ukrainian side.

Because they are, Crimean gov was smart enough to walk out of the war and protect itself from what it became a Civil War.

A near coup by a strong economic sector with western alliances, a country basically divided by both being a former USSR state and an emergent ultra nationalistic (actually Nazi) movement which ended up splitting the country. Nearly all the problems are rotted to the pro-western/Nazi sector fancy taking control of the power, having themselves trapped by how many Russians are in the country and how much of it's territory is organized, and obviously Russia protecting it's own interests (which is like the having a Communist gov in Mexico and expecting the US not to invade it).

 

[SMfan]

Because they are, Crimean gov was smart enough to walk out of the war and protect itself from what it became a Civil War.

A near coup by a strong economic sector with western alliances, a country basically divided by both being a former USSR state and an emergent ultra nationalistic (actually Nazi) movement which ended up splitting the country. Nearly all the problems are rotted to the pro-western/Nazi sector fancy taking control of the power, having themselves trapped by how many Russians are in the country and how much of it's territory is organized, and obviously Russia protecting it's own interests (which is like the having a Communist gov in Mexico and expecting the US not to invade it).

Whoa, dude, you're not even close.
Just as I said about:

Right Sector everywhere... Jew-Nazis... Gay-propaganda... so on,
Oh and THE greatest argument for any and all topics: THESE BASTARDS WANNA TAKE OUR GREATNESS AWAYLnkjnklfmvlkglfvfm!!!!!

I mean... damn. I'm done explaining sh**, there's a whole thread of explaining here.
Goddamit.

 

[Rage Racer]

Uh oh.
A Polish anti-nazi historian, Robert Kuwalek, was murdered in Lviv.
http://vesti.ua/lvov/55638-vo-lvove-najden-mertvym-izvestnyj-polskij-istorik#comment-answer-622863 (Russian)
http://www.polskieradio.pl/5/3/Arty...i-historyk-zajmujacy-sie-tematyka-Holokaustu- (Polish)

Whoa, dude, you're not even close.
Just as I said about:

I mean... damn. I'm done explaining sh**, there's a whole thread of explaining here.
Goddamit.

Do you think he's been watching Kiselyov too much? Or he's another Kremlin troll agent?

 

[Akira AC]

Whoa, dude, you're not even close.
Just as I said about:

I mean... damn. I'm done explaining sh**, there's a whole thread of explaining here.
Goddamit.

What does that even mean, like ... seriously?

First you point out that the right sector is the problem, then you argue yourself that they are not the problem, is a logical conundrum. You can get mad all you want but you are not making much sense they way you are phrasing things.

 

[SMfan]

Uh oh.
A Polish anti-nazi historian, Robert Kuwalek, was murdered in Lviv.
http://vesti.ua/lvov/55638-vo-lvove-najden-mertvym-izvestnyj-polskij-istorik#comment-answer-622863 (Russian)
http://www.polskieradio.pl/5/3/Arty...i-historyk-zajmujacy-sie-tematyka-Holokaustu- (Polish)
Do you think he's been watching Kiselyov too much? Or he's another Kremlin troll agent?

Lets extrapolate every single event onto everybody. Cause that's how statistics work. You can't measure anything based on singular events. By doing so you just end up selecting whatever fits your point of view. I mean, you can select in other situations as well, obviously.

Don't know where this person gets his/her info.

Well then, @Akira AC, what has formed your view on the events in Ukraine?

What does that even mean, like ... seriously?

First you point out that the right sector is the problem, then you argue yourself that they are not the problem, is a logical conundrum. You can get mad all you want but you are not making much sense they way you are phrasing things.

This:

Right Sector everywhere... Jew-Nazis... Gay-propaganda... so on, so forth. No diff, dawg.
Oh and THE greatest argument for any and all topics: THESE BASTARDS WANNA TAKE OUR GREATNESS AWAYLnkjnklfmvlkglfvfm!!!!!

is what a person who gets all the info about Ukraine from the Russian media would say. And if you want a clarification - such proclamations sound very stupid.

 

[Akira AC]

is what a person who gets all the info about Ukraine from the Russian media would say. And if you want a clarification - such proclamations sound very stupid.

First off, having followed the whole Affair since November last year I can say that is pretty true, even if it's part of a propagandistic Russian method of delivering or covering their own faults is true. From Svoboda taking control and backing up riots back when the first protests began, to western countries supporting the new government who install themselves after the coup, the joke that Yulia Tymoshenko was during the elections and how the remaining coup leaders sought power to themselves.

I could go on citing both BBC and RT (which are the two extremes of the situation) and still it wouldn't neglect the fact that something really messed up is happing with the right wing sector who recently got control of most of Ukraine.


Russians get one thing, being living in an western country I get others, all I trust is my judgement, and is difficult to find a 50%/50% causal in all this when you start reading the Svoboda party slogans and their websites, and how the mayor problem in Crimea is the administrative nightmare of becoming part of Russia while the rest of the country is in a civil war. Russia have it's own interests (naval basis and possibly Russian speakers possibly threaten by how the extremist parties are gain force) but is mostly a newer western sector trying to impose themselves on a former USSR state, which is the current state of affairs, that and extremist wanting a piece of the cake.

 

[Rage Racer]

@SMfan , man, what's wrong with you?

Right Sector everywhere... Jew-Nazis... Gay-propaganda... so on, so forth. No diff, dawg.
Oh and THE greatest argument for any and all topics: THESE BASTARDS WANNA TAKE OUR GREATNESS AWAYLnkjnklfmvlkglfvfm!!!!!

And you sound like:
Russia Today everywhere... Kiselyov... Vatniks... Kremlin propaganda!..
Does it just feel to me like that or you're opposing everything that matches the Moscow's point of view and simply complain about propaganda?
Could you please explain what exactly @Akira AC is wrong about?

Lets extrapolate every single event onto everybody. Cause that's how statistics work. You can't measure anything based on singular events. By doing so you just end up selecting whatever fits your point of view. I mean, you can select in other situations as well, obviously.

Did I just extrapolate or measure anything? No, I did not. I just reported some news from Lviv and Poland.

 

[SMfan]

@SMfan , man, what's wrong with you?

Should I revert the queston?

Does it just feel to me like that or you're opposing everything that matches the Moscow's point of view and simply complain about propaganda?

Dude. Said it just above. Everybody's stupid.

Could you please explain what exactly @Akira AC is wrong about?

Ehhh, I'm gonna have to retell most of the stuf I've said alredy. I guess later. Too tired right now.

Did I just extrapolate or measure anything? No, I did not. I just reported some news from Lviv and Poland.

If you didn't, then please excuse my insinuation. It's just that when people bring up facts in such fashion, they typically try to prove a more general point.

 

[Carlos]

Maybe totally unrelated, but I've just seen the movie 'The other Chelsea' and though it's about football, it shows more about social life and politics in Donetsk. I found it very interesting to see how these people live and think.

Donetsk is the coal-mining area of Ukraine. Here most people work for low wages in the run down mines, while others make a lot of money. No matter which side of the social divide you are on, coming from Donetsk you will almost certainly be an opponent of the Orange Revolution and a fan of the local football team, Shakhtar Donetsk. Billionaire Akhmetov invests heavily in the club, which is becoming a major European force during the season followed by the film. Yet this sporting success funded by an Oligarch fortune only seems to highlight the wider social and political stagnation of the region. Off the pitch, the outlook appears bleak...

The quote is from IMDb

To me the normal people are living in conditions we wouldn't accept, have no clue what's really going on and are easily fooled. The rest it seems are all just a bunch of power junkies.

 

[Dotini]

Ron Paul condemns the US-backed slaughter of civilians by Ukraine military forces. But Jen Psaki supports it.

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...4/us-turns-blind-eye-to-lugansk-massacre.aspx

 

[Rage Racer]

But Jen Psaki supports it.

"Ukrainian government must kill civilians to protect the gas going from Western Europe to Russia", right?

 

[Dotini]

Our gas smells so sweet.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Ron Paul condemns the US-backed slaughter of civilians by Ukraine military forces. But Jen Psaki supports it.

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...4/us-turns-blind-eye-to-lugansk-massacre.aspx

Sounds like an anti-Obama stance, remember that Ron Paul voted pro the faux "war" that the US set up in Afghanistan. This is an actual real war... the US is likely to take a side (they involve themselves in other countries as a seemingly "assumed right", whether we want them to or not) but whichever side they took they'd have to support some killing. This isn't a toy "Afghanistan" any more.

 

[Keef]

http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/163488-orwellian-jen-psaki-media/

 

[Rage Racer]

Uh oh. Ukrainian military uses incendiary shells at Semyonovka.

If there were civilians, I guess they had a real hot time.
Incendiary ammo is prohibited from using in civilian areas by the UN Convention on Conventional Weapons.

 

[SMfan]

One of the supposed vids I've seen so far was from Iraq. So I wouldn't be so fast to declare this one real. Especially, considering the news source.
Trying to find out some additional info about this vid. There's at least one version of it that features a non-Russian media logo. In fact, I have no idea which channel or somehting it is an at which moment it was added. Clear, though, that the person who put it (the logo) in had the original vid and not the one from the KP channel.

Oh, and a suggestion, let's try to move away from stating things as facts with such flimsy evidence.

EDIT: Maybe it was actually a Russian news sourse - LifeNews.
There's a version where their logo is quite clearly seen. Not sure it's the same, but it probably is.

http://vk.com/feed?z=video-72343254_168947590/20c89b5b3689e0466e

Still no confirmtion from anyone with some sorta credibility, though.