Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[Rage Racer]

One of the supposed vids I've seen so far was from Iraq. So I wouldn't be so fast to declare this one real. Especially, considering the news source.
Trying to find out some additional info about this vid. There's at least one version of it that features a non-Russian media logo. In fact, I have no idea which channel or somehting it is an at which moment it was added. Clear, though, that the person who put it (the logo) in had the original vid and not the one from the KP channel.

I know. A vid from Zvezda channel shows a WP device attack from Iraq. But the one from KP seems real to me. The voices of the militiamen don't seem to be added or something.

However, I don't think it was actually white phosphorus as the media says. It doesn't look like an airstrike, more like a launch from BM-21 Grad, but Grad doesn't have WP ammo as far as I know. But there is another type of incendiary compound.

Oh, and a suggestion, let's try to move away from stating things as facts with such flimsy evidence.

Uhm... Haven't you been claiming that the DPR militia shot from schools and hospitals, with even more flimsy proofs (if they were at all)?

 

[Dotini]

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...g-it-russia-is-actually-abandoning-the-dollar

It seems Russia has made a deal with Europe to sell them gas for euros instead of dollars. Clever Putin.

This may well be part of a larger Russian strategy to diversify from dollars to other currencies.

However, these moves cannot be entirely unrelated to the US-induced Ukraine crisis and subsequent US sanctions against Russia.

 

[SMfan]

I know. A vid from Zvezda channel shows a WP device attack from Iraq. But the one from KP seems real to me. The voices of the militiamen don't seem to be added or something.

It's impossible to say whether the voices were added without seeing the people.

However, I don't think it was actually white phosphorus as the media says. It doesn't look like an airstrike, more like a launch from BM-21 Grad, but Grad doesn't have WP ammo as far as I know. But there is another type of incendiary compound.

So far there's no info on wherher Ukraine even has any WP. Btw, if the Iraq vid shows WP in action, than the probably Ukraine vid shows something different, because the bombs/mines/whatever behave differently.

Uhm... Haven't you been claiming that the DPR militia shot from schools and hospitals, with even more flimsy proofs (if they were at all)?

I may have not supplied the link with the text, which I will do, if not too lazy.
Well, saying that they shoot "from" schools was too much, I agree. There are no photos of that(Although there was an article saying directly that, I can't vouch for its validity). However, I have posted vids of separatists shooting and hiding between and on top of apartment blocks. But yeah, the schools thing was too much on my part.

_____________________________

So there's this blog of a guy who says he lives in Slavyansk. The blog is on a heavily Ukrainian site, and the guy isagainst the DNR or Russia, though he tries to act objectively. There are a some interesting things he says about the war. Again, no way to confirm anything.

http://petrimazepa.com/ua/right-now.html

"15:42 Сегодня, я так понял, мы будем выяснять ситуацию с фаершоу. Звонила знакомая девушка, её окна выходят в сторону Семёновки. Её наблюдения такие: ночью Семёновка светилась как днём. Просто нереально ярким светом. Она это восприняла как огромный пожар. Думаю, она не слышала сильных взрывов, так бы сказала."

"15:42 Today we will be trying to get some info about the fire show. A person I know called - she could look at the events in Semyonovka through a window. Her : that night was as bright as day at Semyonovka - the light was incredibly bright. Thought there was a massive fire. She said nothing about big explosions, so she probably didn't hear any."

 

[SMfan]

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...g-it-russia-is-actually-abandoning-the-dollar

It seems Russia has made a deal with Europe to sell them gas for euros instead of dollars. Clever Putin.

This may well be part of a larger Russian strategy to diversify from dollars to other currencies.

However, these moves cannot be entirely unrelated to the US-induced Ukraine crisis and subsequent US sanctions against Russia.

I though the "plan" (more like the dream) was to go to Ruble. So, if they are going from dollar to euro, this very well may be a sign of an economical decision not a political one.

Hmm, read the article - so far we're talking about a possibility to go to euros. It is a pretty important sign, though. I'd like to hear some of the Russian economists to speak their thoughts on the event.

 

[Rage Racer]

So far there's no info on wherher Ukraine even has any WP. Btw, if the Iraq vid shows WP in action, than the probably Ukraine vid shows something different, because the bombs/mines/whatever behave differently.

I suppose they were MZ-21 rockets launched from Grad system. They open up in the air, releasing 180 incendiary elements (in each rocket), which light up while falling and cover the area of 6400 square metres (80x80 m).
The fire compound consists of benzene, sodium nitrate, isopropylnitrate, copper powder and more, but no phosphorus. Burning temperature is 1500~1600 degrees C.
http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/grad/m3-21.shtml

As you could see on that Iraq vid, WP ammo leaves a lot of smoke. And yes, Ukrainian military doesn't have any "Willie Pete" (but we can't be 100% sure about this though). So Ukrainians may say "ha-ha, stupid Russian propaganda, we don't even have any phosphorus ammo!". Yes, our media could have mentioned WP because "Phosphorus!! It causes terrible burns!!11". But however, the incendiary compound causing massive fires 1500 C hot isn't much better.

She said nothing about big explosions, so she probably didn't hear any."

Of course these things don't explode like a normal explosive shell. They spread the burning substance, and use ignition rather than detonation to start the chemical reaction.

 

[SMfan]

I suppose they were MZ-21 rockets launched from Grad system. They open up in the air, releasing 180 incendiary elements (in each rocket), which light up while falling and cover the area of 6400 square metres (80x80 m).
The fire compound consists of benzene, sodium nitrate, isopropylnitrate, copper powder and more, but no phosphorus. Burning temperature is 1500~1600 degrees C.
http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/grad/m3-21.shtml

As you could see on that Iraq vid, WP ammo leaves a lot of smoke. And yes, Ukrainian military doesn't have any "Willie Pete" (but we can't be 100% sure about this though). So Ukrainians may say "ha-ha, stupid Russian propaganda, we don't even have any phosphorus ammo!". Yes, our media could have mentioned WP because "Phosphorus!! It causes terrible burns!!11". But however, the incendiary compound causing massive fires 1500 C hot isn't much better.

To be honest, even even they dropped a hundred molotov cocktails that woulda burned like s##t!
There's no "nice" way to bomb or burn a place.

However, as I undderstand, the problem with WP isn't necessarily just the burning, but the toxic gas and dust that can spread over a large area.

Of course these things don't explode like a normal explosive shell. They spread the burning substance, and use ignition rather than detonation to start the chemical reaction.

Yeah, I kinda knew that already, I was just translating the whole phrase of that dude. Oh, btw, he also mentioned the fact that nobody said anything about the toxic gas I was talking about earlier.

_______________________

If we're to talk about assumptions here there's on going around facebook right now, that those were 3-2-3 mortar rounds. Those rounds burn, but I don't know how they compare to what you just explained. Well, no, I could guess, that mortar rounds are significantly weaker than Grad.

Anyways, I don't think we can say what they used without somebody on the ground in Semyonovka.
I think this is definitely a job for the OSCE, although, I'm afraid they will only be able to say whether they found any traces of WP or not.

 

[Rage Racer]

Some mob assaults the Russian embassy building in Kiev. The law enforcers don't seem to be giving a ****.

Maidummies were laughing on the Russian propaganda telling "Nazis, Nazis everywhere!"
Well, well...

Reports of Molotov cocktail thrown.

Now. Result of the peaceful European protest.

 

[TenEightyOne]

What's worrying from the perspective of a wet Brit is how some of the more serious issues of this crisis (relatively speaking... they're all serious) are being ommitted by most of our news channels in favour of, well, anything else going on in the world.

 

[Dotini]

What's worrying from the perspective of a wet Brit is how some of the more serious issues of this crisis (relatively speaking... they're all serious) are being ommitted by most of our news channels in favour of, well, anything else going on in the world.

Poor guy, I hope you dry out soon.

I would disabuse you of any concern about the seriousness of the Ukraine crisis. It is only serious because "most of our news channels" have stoked the affair and attempted to stampede people and politicians into following suit. Thankfully, sober Germans, French and Londoners have realized they cannot support serious sanctions against Russia and are sitting on their hands, waiting patiently for the Ukraine and Russ to settle it as they should have done all along. Shame on the US State Department, pro-democracy and LGBT NGO's, and BBC for whipping up a tempest in a teapot.

 

[SMfan]

Maidummies were laughing on the Russian propaganda telling "Nazis, Nazis everywhere!"
Well, well...

So they're dummies, and you're apparently uber-smart, cause drawing a swastika on something automatically means "we are nazis". The swastikas were sooo directed at Russia, with the whole comparing Putin to Hitler and all that, you gotta want to see nazis in Kiev, to interpret 'em the way you did. Talk about believing the propaganda.
And for the record (for about the 16573rd time) - there are nazis, as there are idiots, air and water in every country.
And saying that nazis rule Ukraine because of the existence of right radical organizations is stupid. By the same logic eco-activists rule Russia because of the existence of Greenpeace-Russia. And that would just be wrong.
The red-black flag is associated with the Nazis through the UPA, but it's now used a lot by people who do not intend to be though of as nazis or whatever. Not that I support the use of it, buuut it's more people treating symbols the wrong way instead of adhering to an ideology.

 

[Rage Racer]

And saying that nazis rule Ukraine because of the existence of right radical organizations is stupid. By the same logic eco-activists rule Russia because of the existence of Greenpeace-Russia.

I didn't say that Nazis rule Ukraine.
But in Kiev, it doesn't look like the cops try to stop them from riots like this and damaging cars and buildings. And when some officials came there, they were surrounded by the mob and probably had no choice but to do what the mob wants (throw another stone personally or say "Putin is ****head"). So you can see who looks like the real power here.

If eco-activists (or nazi, gay, or whatever other activists) try to perform an illegal action like this in Russia, they'll be ass-kicked by the OMON immediately. So they don't rule anything. While such things in Ukraine look state-sanctioned.

Meanwhile: so the gas supply to Ukraine is finally halted. It's not critical yet, they use their own gas for utility, but the industry needs import gas. The underground gas storages in Ukraine still have some spare though.

Edit: another cool story from BBC about "Crimean Tatars running away to mainland Ukraine from harassment".
(I know it's almost a month old but whatever)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27491266
Could BBC make it more clear, who harasses the Tatars, how, and why? Because the image made by this article looks like Russians are racists who oppress the native Crimeans and intend to settle Apartheid and move them to Bantustans.

 

[SMfan]

I didn't say that Nazis rule Ukraine.
But in Kiev, it doesn't look like the cops try to stop them from riots like this and damaging cars and buildings.

And it is right here, where you casually named a random group of rioting people Nazis.
Oh how I miss the times when you couldn't just do that.
Dude, let's step back for a minute, calm down and recalibrate our lexicon, aight?

The police doing nothing was, in fact, very stupid, however, I feel that it was more a problem of not being able to prevent a riot, rather than fighting it in the process.

 

[Rage Racer]

And it is right here, where you casually named a random group of rioting people Nazis.
Oh how I miss the times when you couldn't just do that.
Dude, let's step back for a minute, calm down and recalibrate our lexicon, aight?

okay, my bad, I phrased this wrong. I meant the radical protestors, you know. (But there could be some nazis among them, too.) Peaceful liberal pro-European protestors wouldn't crash cars and **** around like this, I guess you understand.
Fortunately, the protest at the Russian conculate in Odessa ended up a lot more peaceful.

 

[SMfan]

(But there could be some nazis among them, too.)

Let's get off the Nazi thing aight?
It ain't even serious, man.

Peaceful liberal pro-European protestors wouldn't crash cars and **** around like this, I guess you understand.

Welp, there are radical lefties, football fans (not all of them support right-wing views) and just generally angry people.

Anyways, @Rage Racer failed to mention that the riots didn't come outta nowhere and were a reaction to a Ukrainian military transport plane being shot down by the DPR, resulting in 49 deaths.

_________________________​

Heh, looks like Igor "Strelkov" Girkin (the ex-FSB guy and the de-facto leader of the DPR) has realized that Putin ain't gonna do a full-on attack on Ukraine. And now he (Girkin) is doing the classic Russian thing of saying "I know that the Tzar/Emperor/GenSec/President is doing everything to help me, and he wants exactly the same thing that I want, because he's the great leader. But his dirty subordinates always do somethinbg to stop him from helping me."

http://slon.ru/fast/world/strelkov-predostereg-putina-ot-puti-miloshevicha-1114514.xhtml

 

[Rage Racer]

Let's get off the Nazi thing aight?
It ain't even serious, man.

Uhm, that was just a cite note.
Alright, but let's get off the "terrorist" thing, too. As I've told in the PM.

Anyways, @Rage Racer failed to mention that the riots didn't come outta nowhere and were a reaction to a Ukrainian military transport plane being shot down by the LPR, resulting in 49 deaths. {fixed}

Yep, but it's not an excuse for attacking the embassy.
This is war. It's kill of be killed. Those soldiers were deployed to fight the LPR militia. They were armed. And those who shot the plane could get killed by those soldiers later if they refused to shoot. I see no reason to whine about that like they killed innocent children.
Those protestors should blame their government who treats their soldiers like cannon fodder (what a ****ing idiot was the person whose idea was to land such a big transport full of personnel under AA fire. Did they expect the LPR militants to have mercy on them end let through?), not "Putin's terrorists who killed our keeds!!111".

Heh, looks like Igor "Strelkov" Girkin (the ex-FSB guy and the de-facto leader of the DPR) has realized that Putin ain't gonna do a full-on attack on Ukraine. And now he (Girkin) is doing the classic Russian thing of saying "I know that the Tzar/Emperor/GenSec/President is doing everything to help me, and he wants exactly the same thing that I want, because he's the great leader. But his dirty subordinates always do somethinbg to stop him from helping me."

Heh, I think he's just playing dumb, while calling "Motherland's in danger!".
Looks like some of his prayes were heard:

Lots of trucks, BTRs and even tanks (T-64) coming from the east.


Note the BTR with Crimean flag:


Edit: a Russian border checkpoint was shot by mortars from Ukraine. WTF?

 

[SMfan]

Uhm, that was just a cite note.
Alright, but let's get off the "terrorist" thing, too. As I've told in the PM.

All for that.

Yep, but it's not an excuse for attacking the embassy.

Not an excuse, but a reason.[/QUOTE]

Edit: a Russian border checkpoint was shot by mortars from Ukraine. WTF?

Mortars? Ain't heard nuttn bout that.
Seen reports of "shots" strangely coming (reports coming, not shots) from the Russian Investigation Commitee (direct translation from Russian. the proper translation should sound something like Investigation Service, I guess).

Source, please.

 

[Rage Racer]

Sorce, please.

http://slon.ru/fast/russia/rossiysk...dal-ot-ognya-so-storony-ukrainy-1116634.xhtml

 

[SMfan]

http://slon.ru/fast/russia/rossiysk...dal-ot-ognya-so-storony-ukrainy-1116634.xhtml

Aiight, missed that. It looks not very good.

 

[Rage Racer]

Hmm... Looks like "cool stories" about American mercenaries (Blackwater PMC) are not so "cool".

https://twitter.com/PattonStan

The plate on the car behind seems to be Ukrainian.

 

[SMfan]

The plate on the car behind seems to be Ukrainian.

http://airsoft.ua/showthread.php?t=5499&page=5

LOLling continuously.

Oh, for the non-speakers - this is a photo of a Ukrainian strikeball team from Crimea. Originally posted in 2010.

And that Patton dude is actually close to being a real Nazi.

 

[Rage Racer]

Ooops... okay


What we call "Strikeball" is actually called "Airsoft" in English.
Not the first time when people confuse airsoft players and real militants. I remember that Ukrainian Couch Forces were claiming a Crimean airsoft team as a "Russian sabouteurs training in Crimea for operation in Donbass", too.

And that Patton dude is possibly another "couch soldier".

 

[terminator363]

Ukraine just went crai:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28144334

 

[sumbrownkid]

I'm under the impression that Blackwater changed its name to something else after all the bad press from Iraq.

Edit: Wait those yahoos are just an airsoft team?

 

[Rage Racer]

Ukraine just went crai:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28144334

"There will be a victory parade... in Ukraine's Sevastopol."

Edit: look, he signed the order with a closed pen!

Edit: Wait those yahoos are just an airsoft team?

Yep, turns out so.
There are some reports of American and Polish PMC's presence in the area, but no solid proofs yet.

 

[terminator363]

 

[Rage Racer]

Russian territory under fire from Ukraine, one civilian killed, two injured.
http://rt.com/news/172404-russian-donetsk-shelled-victims/
WTF? How long is our government going to leave such attacks unanswered?
If they invade our Donetsk and RF answers, I guess Jen Psaki will say "this is Ukrainian territory, what's Russia doing there?", having no clue that there are two Donetsks. 🤬

 

[Rage Racer]

Meanwhile, with that fallen Boeing, most of us have missed the Ukrainian attack on Luhansk - the capital of self-proclaimed Lugansk People's Republic (LPR, or LNR).
http://rt.com/news/173812-ukraine-lugansk-shelling-killed/
OSCE reports about 250 civilians dead in two months.
http://rt.com/news/174128-lugansk-osce-death-toll/
But the West doesn't give a 🤬.

 

[Xilor]

Not sure if this has been posted before, if you've got 45 minutes to spare, shows what is really being done by the righteous Ukrainian army.

WARNING: Some of it is quite graphic

 

[Dotini]

The revolution in Ukraine has now entered yet another phase - collapse of the original revolutionary junta.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/24/ukrainian-prime-minister-yatsenyuk-to-resign/

"Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk has announced his resignation, Fox News confirms.

Yatsenyuk made the announcement from the dais of the parliament after two parties said they would pull out of the governing coalition. "I am announcing my resignation in connect with the collapse of the coalition," Yatsenyuk said.

He said the parliament could no longer do its work and pass necessary laws.

The nationalist Svoboda party and the UDAR movement led by former boxer Vladimir Klitscho pulled out of the group of legislators that took over after former President Viktor Yanukovich was ousted by protesters seeking closer ties with the European Union."

 

[TenEightyOne]

Not sure if this has been posted before, if you've got 45 minutes to spare, shows what is really being done by the righteous Ukrainian army.

WARNING: Some of it is quite graphic

It's a bit late showing the warning when there's a corpse on the video preview.

I'd unbed the video and just provide a URL.