Russian Invasion of Ukraine

  • Thread starter Rage Racer
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A ceasefire agreement has been signed and partly implemented by the government of Ukraine and representatives of the eastern separatists. There are violations going on but the two parties are clinging on to the agreement, even hoping and preparing to arrive at further solutions to be implemented. So far, so good.

One big problem is various militias - on either side - might seek to destroy the ceasefire and scupper the whole thing.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/08/donetsk-pro-russia-rebels-ukrainian-junta
A number of fighters on the Ukrainian side have said in recent days that Kiev needs the ceasefire to regroup, but will resume military operations against the "occupying forces" at the first possible opportunity.

In Donetsk, there was anger and resolution among the 1,500-strong crowd who had gathered at the rally.

"We loved Ukraine until they started bombing us, now we can never go back there," said Zinaida, a 58-year-old local. "They are fascists and they have your support. We read that you have Scotland wanting to secede there. Why don't you send your tanks there and destroy them instead of sending them here? We will be part of Russia now and will never go back to those fascists."
 
These soldiers should be dishonorably discharged, but it's not like they're all like that.
Too late. They are active from the very beginning of the conflict. The neo-Nazis also played a big role in the coup d'état in Kiev this February.

http://nypost.com/2014/09/10/russia-developing-new-nuclear-weapons-to-counter-us-nato/

This has been all over the news today. A sign that Putin had something in his pocket? This, of course, would fly in the face of the START treaty that was signed four years ago to replace the expired START I treaty.
Uhm, I haven't heard about any new nukes, they just announced a new modernization program, the main point of which is the defense from the "massive missile strike" concept, and getting the military industry independent from import components.

He's not protecting Eastern Europe, he's only destabilizing it. He should be impeached right away.
:lol:
 
German TV shows Ukraine troops wearing Nazi symbols on helmets and gear.
"Are you from Germany? Sieg Heil!" :lol:

It's surprising (and sad) that it was the first time when Nazi soldiers appeared on the Western media. The National Guard's "special batallions" - Azov, Aidar, Donbas, Dnieper, Kiev-1, etc - are staffed by people with radical extremist views (ultra-nationalists and neo-Nazis). The Novorossian fighters had seen swastika tatoos on many of the dead bodies of those troopers.
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It's also funny that the German channel that published those vids was (as I heard) accused of "Nazi propaganda", which is a crime in Germany. But no one accused Ukraine for forming those Nazi batallions. It's probably not a crime, but revealing it to the public is.
 
The Germans are dragging their feet on sanctions, and also objecting to more NATO spending. The most important economy in Europe is sagging at the altar of Russian conflict at a time when strength is needed to hold Europe together financially. The news that they are supporting neo-Nazis with costly sanctions and increased NATO expenditures will not be greeted with pleasure in Germany. I'm convinced they're becoming fed up with US spying in their private communications and meddling with their business affairs.

Quite how western liberal human rights advocates can reconcile their support of the Ukraine revolution with these knuckle-dragging neo-Nazis is well beyond my understanding.
 
In 1944, Eastern Ukraine was liberated from the German occupation. But 70 years later, the people of Donbass have to protect their land from Nazis again...
(It may sound like Russian propaganda, but it's worth thinking about.)
 
Too late. They are active from the very beginning of the conflict. The neo-Nazis also played a big role in the coup d'état in Kiev this February.


Uhm, I haven't heard about any new nukes, they just announced a new modernization program, the main point of which is the defense from the "massive missile strike" concept, and getting the military industry independent from import components.


:lol:

What's so funny? Putin is being in denial about recognizing the independence of my country due to his nationalism. He uses Resolution 1244 as his excuse. This is an excerpt that the anti-Kosovo independent countries use: “full account of the Rambouillet accords (Annex II) and the principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.” Now, does Yugoslavia exist? Not since 2006 when Montenegro gained independence. Kosovo gained independence in 2008. Putin is in denial. He is arrogant. And your RT is using propaganda from the Kremlin to make you think that all of the Ukrainian army is a bunch of Nazis. Wasn't Russia fighting Chechnya not too long ago? They say the US has double standards when they have double standards themselves!
 
What's so funny?
What's funny is how you say Putin must be impeached, like he can be impeached by someone from the West. Maybe it's the country's own concern, who to impeach?
And about the "destabilizing" thing - I know you may see Putin as some "Evil Emperor", but it was not him who started this game in Ukraine. The US have made their move - and RF should ignore it? No. Moscow had no choice but to join this game. No one would like to have his geopolitical interests treated like this.

Putin is being in denial about recognizing the independence of my country due to his nationalism.
Nationalism?.. :rolleyes: I know The Crab is often accused for many things - dictatorship, homophobia, shooting the MH17 personally - but nationalism?..

He uses Resolution 1244 as his excuse. This is an excerpt that the anti-Kosovo independent countries use: “full account of the Rambouillet accords (Annex II) and the principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.” Now, does Yugoslavia exist? Not since 2006 when Montenegro gained independence. Kosovo gained independence in 2008. Putin is in denial. He is arrogant.
Well, I think it's the country's own concern, who to recognize and who not to recognize. At least Russia doesn't back and set Serbia for fighting Kosovo. Besides, there's simply no much need for RF to have any relations with Kosovo (but there is strong relationship with Serbia), while NATO hosts military bases there without asking Serbia. In other words, Kosovo doesn't interest Russia at all. There are not many people in Russia who can even find Kosovo on the map. ;)

Anyway, I haven't learned much about the Kosovo conflict yet (now busy reading about the Bosnian war), but will do later.

And your RT is using propaganda from the Kremlin to make you think that all of the Ukrainian army is a bunch of Nazis.
I don't watch RT, I don't even have it on my TV :sly:
Not all of Ukrainian army are Nazis, but the "National Guard" is playing a serious role in the conflict. And the regular Ukrainian army shells civilian areas. Not sure if this can be related to as a war crime (although some people call it "genocide", I think they don't always do it on purpose), but this causes serious civilian casualties. They act less accurately than Israeli army in Gaza. Are you aware of that?

Wasn't Russia fighting Chechnya not too long ago? They say the US has double standards when they have double standards themselves!
The Novorossian militants do not bomb subways in Kiev or apartments in Poltava, they don't take hostages in schools of Dnipropetrovsk or bomb trains in Kharkiv, or attack civilians anywhere else.
I know the Kievan propaganda likes labeling the separatists of Novorossiya as "terrorists", but any comparision of them with the Chechen Islamists is totally inappropriate.
 
Maybe that will end the dumb sanctions the EU and Russia forced upon each other.

All they did was shoot each other in the foot. Russia needs the EU as much as the EU needs Russia.
 
New agreement in Minsk: the sides (Ukraine and Novorossiya, with mediation of Russia and OSCE) have arranged to reserve a 30 km "safety zone" between the positions of UAF and AFN. Which means, the troops of both sides will have to step 15 km back and leave the zone available to OSCE only.
Heavy artillery (over 100 mm in caliber) has to be removed, too.

Edit: a missile strike on Donetsk was made during unloading a Russian humanitarian convoy.
No info about victims yet, but the explosions are scaring...

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I know Russian humour can be a bit ... well, odd, but this one has gone right over my head. What's so funny about a flag that is so small that you can't make it out?
 
Looks like a Confederates flag?
As has been pointed out, the Novorossiya does share common elements - the blue saltire (learned that one in the Scottish independence referendum thread) for one - with the Confederates flag. I'd say there's just a lack of detail in that photo.
 
Looks like a Confederates flag?
As has been pointed out, the Novorossiya does share common elements - the blue saltire (learned that one in the Scottish independence referendum thread) for one - with the Confederates flag. I'd say there's just a lack of detail in that photo.
The Novorossian flag is based on the Naval Jack of the Russian Imperial Fleet (which was similar to the CSA flag).
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The rebels may also be related to as "confederates", because Novorossia is a confederation of two self-proclaimed states - "Peolple's Republics" of Donetsk and Lughansk. I also saw a video on YouTube - "Good Old Rebel - Novorossia Edition"). :D You may say, Novorossia is the new Dixieland, opposing the United States and their henchmen.

I know Russian humour can be a bit ... well, odd, but this one has gone right over my head. What's so funny about a flag that is so small that you can't make it out?
What's funny is that BBC reports about the pro-Ukraine march in Moscow, but the photo shows the opposing one - pro-Novorossian, with the DPR flag (black-blue-red) and Novorossian (the "Naval Jack").

Yesterday, there was a "March of Peace" - the liberal opposition along with, reportedly, activists from Ukraine, feminists, gay activists, etc, were protesting against the "Russian involvement in Ukraine".
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^THIS.
"March of peace" under the red & black banner - the symbol of Banderovites, who killed thousands of Poles during the Wolyn massacre.

And... THIS. :lol:
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But, there was also another "March of Peace" nearby, under the rebel flags.
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Some activists from this rally have hired some street cleaner trucks to wash the streets behind the anti-Kremlin protestors. "Cleaning after the traitors!"
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^The ultimate level of trolling. :D Last time when washing trucks followed a march in Moscow was in 1944, when German prisoners were convoyed through the streets.

So, the anti-Putin protest rally (with gay activists involved) ended up quite safely (there were no serious incidents or brawls). Would a pro-Russia march like this be possible in Kiev? I doubt that. I still remember how a much smaller rally ended in Odessa.

After this, one would think, which country has more freedom and democracy - the dictatoric, oppressing Russia or the new, democratic, European, free Ukraine?
 
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The ‘military police’ of ‘Donetsk People’s Republic’ (‘DPR’) told the SMM that three unmarked graves allegedly containing multiple bodies had been found; two of them were located in a coal mine Komunar near the village Nyzhnia Krynka (35km north-east of Donetsk) and one inside the village. The SMM proceeded to the scene and saw in the coal mine two areas located fifty metres apart, each containing two human bodies. All four corpses were in the process of decomposition. The SMM also saw eight 9mm Makarov pistol cartridges approximately five meters away from the bodies. Near the road on the edge of the village, the SMM observed a pile of earth resembling a grave which had a stick with a plaque, written in Russian and containing the names (or in one case – initials) of five individuals. The plaque indicated that the individuals died on 27.08.2014. On top of the plaque there was another inscription saying: ‘Died for Putin’s lies’. Neither in the coal mine nor in the village did the SMM see any forensic experts. COMMENT:The SMM cannot provide a forensic assessment of the sites.

Source: http://www.osce.org/node/124216

DPR reports about more collective graves in other areas that were under control of Ukrainian National Guard earlier. Reportedly over 30 bodies, some of which were women. Many had their arms tied, which tells they were executed. Some of those were shown on TV.
 
Time for Act 10: The Invasion?

Kiev: 32 tanks enter Ukraine from Russia


A column of 32 tanks and other heavy weapons has entered Ukraine from Russia, the Ukrainian military says, after the latest fighting left five dead and at least 31 injured.

Military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said a convoy made up of 32 tanks, 16 howitzer cannons and 30 trucks of troops and equipment crossed the border into the rebel-controlled Lugansk region on Thursday.

Another column including trucks and three mobile radar stations crossed another border point in the same region, he said on Friday.

Five Ukrainian soldiers were killed in fighting with pro-Russian rebels over the past 24 hours, the military said.

"Over the past day we lost five Ukrainian soldiers and 16 were wounded," military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said.
 
Time for Act 10: The Invasion?
Does Mr. Lysenko have any photos, videos, or other evidence of the presence of RF military units? According to Ukrainian officials, the invasion had already started in August. Or even earlier.

Once upon time, there was a cock, who was crowing about a Russian invasion many times, but each time, it turned out not true. And then, when Russians really have invaded - no one believed him. ;)

OSCE doesn't confirm any invasion either. http://www.osce.org/om/126412
Military movement

At the two BCPs the OM did not observe any military movement, apart from vehicles of the RF border guard service. No aircraft activity was observed at or in the vicinity of the BCPs.
Russian convoys

During the reporting period, the OM observed the passage of three Russian convoys through the Donetsk BCP to Ukraine, on 31 October, 2 November and 4 November respectively (see related Spot Reports). The first convoy consisted of 42 vehicles and was inspected by both Russian and Ukrainian border guard and customs services. The second convoy, consisted of 32 vehicles, was cleared solely by Russian border guard and customs officers. The third convoy consisted of 10 vehicles and was inspected by RF officials only. The Ukrainian officers, stationed across the fence from the BCP, did not take part in the inspection process but took pictures and observed the proceedings. All convoys returned to RF the same day they had crossed the border.
 
RUSSIAN troops and heavy armaments including tanks and howitzer artillery have reportedly streamed across the Ukrainian border contrary to a supposed ceasefire and signalling a significant escalation of hostilities in the region.

The move comes amid first-hand reports that Donetsk, the Russian-backed militia’s unofficial capital in east Ukraine, has descended into chaos.

Sources inside the embattled city have told News Corp Australia the city, without electricity or gas, was rife with indiscriminate violence including rapes and murders and daily deadly bombings.

Most of the victims have been civilians who have either yet to flee the region or have nowhere else to go.

The Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council today accused Russia of sending at least 32 tanks, 16 weapons systems including Howitzer cannons, radar systems and 30 truck loads of armed fighters and ammunition.

Spokesman Colonel Andriy Lysenko said the latest convoy of troops and armaments came through Izvaryne border post which is in militia control.

“Redeployment of military equipment and of Russian mercenaries to the frontline continues,” he said.

The entry of the equipment also in the Luhansk region came as five Ukrainian soldiers were killed and 16 injured in the past 24 hours.

It was not clear whether the movement of armaments was the start of a new offensive to wrest the east of Ukraine for Russia or the reinforcing of the Russian-backed militia’s position along the eastern border of that country.

Either way, the escalation in violence and reports of armament movements flies in the face of a technical ceasefire that was created on September 5 between Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko and Russian president Vladimir Putin.

The violence particularly about Donetsk also all but rules out any potential move by Dutch and Australian air crash investigators on returning to the region to finalise their investigation into Malaysian Airlines flight MH17, shot down by a missile on July 17.

Sources inside the embattled city say the violence has steadily increased over recent weeks and no one left in the once beautiful regional capital felt safe.

“They bomb us from all directions, the west, the east, the south and it is killing people,” one local hiding in his basement told News Corp.

“We don’t have electricity or gas, no water and it is very hard. People are cooking what they can, potatoes, on open fires but it is all very dangerous.

“Western people no longer hearing I think about the killings, many children die going to school. “Two boys were killed playing football in their school and 10 or maybe more taken to the central hospital. Many people die at hands of both sides.”

He confirmed reports there had been rapes as well as random assaults of locals.

Meanwhile, there were unconfirmed reports former Soviet soldier and Russian-backed militia leader Igor Beslar who allegedly admitted responsibility for the shooting down of MH17 had been killed in an internal militia conflict.

That came after Russian radio reported he had been removed from his post after failure to unite the various militant separatist factions from Donetsk to Luhansk.

NATO could not confirm the report of the death nor the movement of armaments and men across the border from Russia.

“If this crossing into Ukraine is confirmed, it would be further evidence of Russia’s aggression and direct involvement in destabilising Ukraine,” a spokesman said.

In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the movement “if confirmed ... would be another blatant violation of the Minsk agreement,” referring to the September 5 pact.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel expressed “deep concern” about the reports of Russian troop movements and spoke by phone Friday with Mr Poroshenko.


http://www.news.com.au/world/europe...scalating-crisis/story-fnh81p7g-1227116565043
 
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