Russian Invasion of Ukraine

  • Thread starter Rage Racer
  • 10,078 comments
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Biggles
All is not well in Ukraine. Ukraine has barely a better standing when it comes to corruption than does Russia.
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I'm going to need you to spell this out, Russia has a long rap sheet.
Biggles
But that's besides the point. You don't have the right to wilfully invade other countries just because you have the military capability to do it. I certainly hope that hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian lives are not lost as a result of the Russian invasion as they were as a consequence of the American-led invasion of Iraq.
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It's true that military capability doesn't justify invasion. But that doesn't leave the US war in Iraq unjustified. And you know better than to make that false equivalence because I have explained, to you, exactly why it's wrong before.

There are about a thousand reasons why Russia's invasion of Ukraine is not the same as the US occupation of Iraq. And I think it's gross of you to try to make that case here.
 
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Biggles
OK ... but in the midst of all this, it's useful to bear in mind that the US under George Bush attacked Iraq on the flimsiest of pretexts leading to a devastating loss of life & the disruption of the entire region. Not only that, but Bush had the active support of the UK led by an (ostensibly) "social democratic" government. Even though there was a lot of resistance to the Iraq war, it didn't stop it from happening.
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Why yes, that certainly is one of the arguments that Rage Racer tried to trot out back when he was still in the "Putin is just doing military drills won't you look stupid when he just leaves" phase of his arguments. Brave of you to back him up on it after Russia has invaded the entire country instead.
 
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Biggles
You have an absurdly high opinion of your opinions. :rolleyes:
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You failed to address my arguments then, and having failed to do so, you continue along a highly flawed line of reasoning. And you think it's ME who has a high opinion of my opinions?

You come in here, while stuff is going down in Ukraine, and want to take 20 year old pot shots at the US that weren't solid then and aren't solid now? Give me a break, this is seriously poor behavior.
 
It seems that all of the sudden there is something in the air, or water, that causes spines to grow.

Dutch PM Mark Rutte spoke with Zelensky on the phone and apparently we are going to ship weaponry to Ukraine. Now all they need to do is agree that this could be a thing for NATO and start bombing the **** out of the Russians in Ukraine.
 
Dennisch
It seems that all of the sudden there is something in the air, or water, that causes spines to grow.

Dutch PM Mark Rutte spoke with Zelensky on the phone and apparently we are going to ship weaponry to Ukraine. Now all they need to do is agree that this could be a thing for NATO and start bombing the **** out of the Russians in Ukraine.
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I would want assurances from China that they won't join in the fray if NATO starts popping off - and I sincerely doubt they would give it. It's hard to watch Ukraine be invaded...but we don't want WW3 here.
 
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Eunos_Cosmo
I would want assurances from China that they won't join in the fray if NATO starts popping off - and I sincerely doubt they would give it. It's hard to watch Ukraine be invaded...but we don't want WW3 here.
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China needs the US $ to keep them moving. Unlikely they would side with Russia and have their own sanctions on them in place.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
I would want assurances from China that they won't join in the fray if NATO starts popping off - and I sincerely doubt they would give it. It's hard to watch Ukraine be invaded...but we don't want WW3 here.
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The Bloomberg article I shared reinforces what I've heard in the last few days; what does Russia have to offer to China over their relations with everyone else beyond energy? It notes that Xi has called on Putin to de-escalate.

If NATO could assure China nothing happens to them, their neutral stance will remain "neutral" by way of telling Russia, "You're definitely on your own".

Edit* Reports Kyiv's power plant has been attacked. Also, on casualties.


Hoping this is true:
 
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So that means that the ONLY country/ies supportive of this invasion are (since the other questionable ones already told them to stop it and North Korea is not stupid enough to act without China/would not be able to do anything to affect the invasion):
Russia
Belarus
Iran
Syria
 
Joey D
Bold of them to threaten Sweden. They're just going to go full Viking and drive a fleet of old Volvos blaring death metal while Saabs bomb the hell out of them from overhead. Finland will just cut off their supply of vodka to Russia and then go sit in a sauna.

But ya, I don't think Putin learned anything from presumably having a history class. If you spread your forces too thin, you're going to get steamrolled. I don't know about Finland, but Sweden has better military hardware than Ukraine along with much tougher terrain even though their force is likely smaller in number. They can also cut off the Baltic Sea (along with Finland) and cripple St. Petersburg and Kaliningrad. I know Sweden is neutral when it comes to military matters though so it doesn't really have allies to lean on, but I'd have to imagine if Putin starts waving his little willy around in Europe too much that's going to change.
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Finland also has very decent armed forces. The only reason Russia, or Putin in this case, is threatening them, is because of the nuclear weapons it has. Without nukes in the equation, and with Sweden and Finland entering NATO, Russia attacking those countries would be suicide.
 
Blitz24
So that means that the ONLY country/ies supportive of this invasion are (since the other questionable ones already told them to stop it and North Korea is not stupid enough to act without China/would not be able to do anything to affect the invasion):
Russia
Belarus
Iran
Syria
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I would say that in each of these cases, the support for Russia goes no further than the head of state and their cronies - which could be meaningful for Iran which can barely keep a lid on popular discontent. Belarus might be an outlier here, depending on how brainwashed their population is.
 
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dacc10
Finland also has very decent armed forces. The only reason Russia, or Putin in this case, is threatening them, is because of the nuclear weapons it has. Without nukes in the equation, and with Sweden and Finland entering NATO, Russia attacking those countries would be suicide.
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Russia even attempting to use nukes on another country would probably be suicide. Even China would break an agreement with Putin if he did that.
Joey D
You mean like this?
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Street was apparently 60 points in dart so they are looking to tap out quickly.
 

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