SCC - Ferrari 348 Challenge Series - Series Complete - Results Posted!

[Biggles]

💡 Maybe new soul should run all future events in default - could lead to some close racing.

(Actually, I'm pretty sure that you could run times much faster than that, because that's about what I was running on default).

 

[new_soul]

Maybe 0.5 faster Biggles but i felt that was it..

The car didnt turn at all, but it had good brakes, and also because Homested is a short lap time, the times will be always much closet than in Spa for example.

No skin, just rosso corsa or something similar.

My setup based on what I've heard about SCC and my own considerations:

dampers: all hard
ride height front: -0.01
ride height rear: +0.03
anti roll bars: all hard
springs: all soft
camber front: -2.5
camber rear: -0.8
toe front: -0.12
toe rear: +0.10

What do the SCC setup experts have to say about this?

well locking very interesting, i will try it tomorow and see what i can get out of it.

EDIT: i did test your set up Drivatar.. got a 1'23.7 in homested the car was 2km/h slower at the line, thats because of - 0.010 at the front and it had a lack of rear grip and the car felt wery responsive under braking and in the corners, i think thats because of the hard rear dampers and the big camber difference.

 

[jjaisli]

This set up i used in the race.. fastest time without drafting 1'22.9
Dampeners: hard / soft
Springs: soft / soft
Sway bars: hard / hard
Ride Height: -0.020 / +0.030
toe: +25 / +25
camber - 4.00 / - 3.20

and i did som testing today..

with a compleate default 348 car i did 1'25.3 in Homested

with that set up above and camber 000 / 000 i did 1'23.7

with that set up above and camber 1.5 / 1.2 i did 1'23.1 ( the car had more traction in 1st and 2nd gear and better brakes, than the extreme camber setup.
i increased the camber gradualy by 1/4 and the car started to move around more and lost 1st and 2nd gear traction and the braking distance was increasing.
I also tryed to finde somthing changing the toe setings, but the only thing i found was that changing anything slowed my lap times un to 1sec

👍 Bravo! This is one of the most useful posts ever made on this topic. I just don't think I'm a consistent enough driver to really make such an accurate assessment. And at times I've struggled to really put some of the settings, in particular with their relationships to each other, together into meaningful context. I understand in principle what they do but being able to accurately say if one is faster than the other and by how much is tricky. In particular because you need to adapt your driving style in order to exploit the differences.

One thing I can tell you, having such extreme positive toe makes the car almost want to turn on it's own and I can't understand how you can keep it in check. It would be like trying to hold onto an oiled eel. I would never be able to manage it.

At any rate, judging by what you wrote, I think perhaps I didn't give Eutechnyx enough credit in weighing the pros and cons of making such extreme changes. Obviously they do have both positive and negative effects.

And one thing interesting, something I'm not sure if anybody picked up on. Comparing the fastest and slowest (fastest laps) from the event, we have a spread of 3.33 seconds. That's actually MUCH closer than many of the events where setups were not allowed. Take from that what you will.

 

[new_soul]

One thing I can tell you, having such extreme positive toe makes the car almost want to turn on it's own and I can't understand how you can keep it in check.

I dont know, for som reason theas toe setings are the fastest and the best for constant lap times, i read somwhere that toe shold be front + 25 in rally cars and front drive race cars, if i remember correctly,
and having theas setings on a rear drive ferrari did not make sense to me ,but i tryed and it worked very well for me.

EDIT:

Toe in – front: car is stable going straight. Turn in is average
Usable range: 0-1/8th inch
Symptoms of too much adjustment: car has slow twitchiness under braking; feels odd

Toe out – front: Car turns in well; works pretty well on FF car as they tend to toe-in under load.
Usable range: 0-1/4 inch
Symptoms of too much adjustment: Car is really twitchy under braking; car wanders on straight road

Toe in – rear: car is less likely to over steer when the throttle is lifted
Usable range: 0-1/8th inch
Symptoms of too much adjustment: weird, slow, rocking movement in back; feels slow but still unstable

Toe out – rear: Helps car rotate useful in low speed and slalom courses; very common on FF pro rally cars.
Usable range: 0-1/8th inch
Symptoms of too much adjustment: not to good for street driving; causes lift throttle over steer; makes violent side to side rocking motions in the rear

Hear is the toe set up guide, reading again it makes sense now to have +toe, i try to adjust it to se a difference, without losing time.

 

[hm66]

I've just seen the 1 race again and I must say that it's the most fun I've had in SCC in a long time.I had several pratice run with new_soul sunday morning (and I got smoked at miami) so when I got online I tryed to tune the car again.I did managed to shape about 6 tenth of my best lap so the gap to new_soul's best lap was about 6 tenth.
My setup for what I remember is.
suspention all soft.
camber and toe all negative (havn't had time to try changing it)
ride hight -20 and +30
The ride hight clearly gave some straight line speed but the car got very loose when cornering.I'm now happy that I was 1 hour early because I got to do around 20 laps with this new setup,and I was struggeling for the first 10 laps to keep it on the track.

 

[arvore]

I will post my livery and setups tomorrow,but I should warn you that they probably will be useless-as my races results show-since I'm not a tuner(in SHIFT I live on borrow tunes that fellow racers gently don't mind sharing ) as I don't have the time ,patience and above all knowledge to tweak with them efectevely.I n these last races I just made a quick visit to the showroom to reset the ride wheight to the new patch levels...

 

[hm66]

I will post my livery and setups tomorrow,but I should warn you that they probably will be useless-as my races results show-since I'm not a tuner(in SHIFT I live on borrow tunes that fellow racers gently don't mind sharing ) as I don't have the time ,patience and above all knowledge to tweak with them efectevely.I n these last races I just made a quick visit to the showroom to reset the ride wheight to the new patch levels...

I'm with you on this one.I have no idea what works in tuning,so my result is a matter of trail and error.I offend stop tuning before i've gone tru all the settings because the testing takes forever.I only tune for events and most of the times i race with default settings.

 

[bullie77]

As for the livery of my car - the mighty "Silver Turtle" - I'll post it later tomorrow (I just have to save the file to a pen and download it on the PC).

My setups are as follows:

Dampeners: hard / soft
Springs: soft / soft
Sway bars: hard / soft
Ride Height: -0.020 / +0.030
toe: +20 / +25
camber - 4.00 / - 3.20

As you might notice, it is very similar to new_soul's setup, with the only differences marked in bold. This because I've tested new_soul's setup on Saturday morning, which he kindly shared with me. The "custom" differences were made because I felt the rear on his setup rather "lively" for my taste so I softened the back end trying to gain some flexibility there for better grip while stepping to the floor coming out of the corners. Toe difference comes from a tweak experienced Saturday while practicing with Jeff and Mario.

And one thing interesting, something I'm not sure if anybody picked up on. Comparing the fastest and slowest (fastest laps) from the event, we have a spread of 3.33 seconds. That's actually MUCH closer than many of the events where setups were not allowed. Take from that what you will.

^ I don't want to claim here something like "I told you so!" but in my opinion this does reinforce my view previously discussed here in several threads: setups do make everybody more competitive, allowing all people to tweak their car to a comfortable setup. In my opinion a comfortable setup, which gives you confidence to drive, is KEY to allow the best of each and closing in the pack. An hard evidence of this to me is my praised performance in the Feature Race (thanks once again to you all for the compliments 👍): I was still one of the slowest guys in track but consistency was the key-factor. But that consistency (20 laps without going off-road once and max. difference from best to slowest lap of about 1 sec.) wouldn't be possible if I didn't feel comfortable with the setup.

Note: I've already started practicing for Redwood Park Round and that setup is obviously not the best for my driving stile in that track and it has to be changed - My best so far is 1:51,xxx. No way I could pull off another race like I did on Sunday using the setup from Miami on Redwood, I just don't feel comfortable with it to be consistent and fast (within my skill limitations).

 

[drivatar]

EDIT: i did test your set up Drivatar.. got a 1'23.7 in homested the car was 2km/h slower at the line, thats because of - 0.010 at the front and it had a lack of rear grip and the car felt wery responsive under braking and in the corners, i think thats because of the hard rear dampers and the big camber difference.

Thx for trying The car was unstable at the rear when exiting some corners but I tried to get a car that turns in very well.

Meanwhile I realized that I mixed up the sign of toe in/out.
What I wanted to setup would have been +0.12/-0.10.

 

[frawe]

This was my setup for Miami Homestead

Dampers: hard / hard
Springs: soft / soft
Sway bars: hard / hard
Ride Height: -0.030 / +0.030
toe: -0.1 / 0
camber - 2.5 / - 1.50

 

[MannyMoenjack]

This was my livery for the Miami race with only minor changes made since...

My setup for the Homestead track on Sunday agrees with what new_soul posted about Toe-Out on the rear. The problem of course is that if you're going too fast, the toe-out tends to cause too much oversteer. This was my problem in the rain. On the wet track the car was oversteering much more than I wanted. On a dry track it wasn't an issue.

Dampers: Front, Hard / Rear, Hard
Front Camber: -3.92 / Front Toe: +0.09
Rear Camber: -2.74 / Rear Toe: -0.04
Springs: Front, Hard / Rear, Soft
Roll Bars: Front, Hard / Rear, Soft
Ride Height: Front, -0.030 / Rear, +0.030

So, far with the exception of the odd added speed given when front ride height is low and the rear is high, the suspension adjustments in SCC seem to do and effect what they would in real life, which has made tweaking the cars somewhat easier.

 

[jjaisli]

I'm starting to think I'm the only one here who didn't go for such a low front ride height. I found lower than 0.05 and there wasn't enough movement to allow the suspension to work but it seems like the rest of you managed fine. And I'm guessing the combination of hard dampeners and better aero from the lowered front is what was giving some of you the small speed advantage on the straight. If I was close enough to draft another car I could overtake or stay with them. But more than 1~1.5 seconds away entering the oval section and most of you pulled away from me and were at least a second further ahead in the braking zone. Where as cars coming up behind me were able to overtake me from as much as 2.5 seconds out, provided they had a good run coming onto the oval section. Interesting.

I think by the time this series is over, we're all going to have a very thorough understanding of how to set up the cars. 👍

And nice job there Manny. In fact, not dissimilar but a good deal more sophisticated than my own design. I think at one point, you were missing a bumper. Looks good!

 

[arvore]

My car,please don't laught...by this time you've all realized I am as bad in pimping up cars as I am driving them...


And these were my setups for the event:


TOE:F-0,25/R+0,25

CAMBER:F -0,4/R-3,20

DAMPERS:S/S

RIDE HEIGHT: F -0,001/R +0,25

ROLL BAR: F Soft/R Hard

SPRINGS: S/S

Looking into these setups made me think that the extreme values used for me in the past probably will only work in the hands of somebody that has his driving skills in the game sharpened,and when people aren't able of getting much time in praticing probably is better to go for more equilibrated values that even if slower allow consistency during long races

 

[jjaisli]

TOE:F-0,25/R+0,25


ROLL BAR: F Soft/R Hard

Without actually driving it, my opinion of this set up is that it would initially have very docile turn in...up until a point...and then quickly and immediately turn to heavy oversteer. At least, that's what I would expect.

 

[arvore]

Without actually driving it, my opinion of this set up is that it would initially have very docile turn in...up until a point...and then quickly and immediately turn to heavy oversteer. At least, that's what I would expect.

And thats what I got,lol

 

[Biggles]

What happened to Alan ...

& RS, ENERGIYA, Segel, krufti, higgi, Mingo (among others)?

Judging by the leaderboards, there seem to be about 23 people in total playing SCC?!

 

[jjaisli]

Alan = busy in the 'real world'. In only 180 days he'll be old enough to apply for a real driving learners permit. I'm sure he'll do fine.

RS = still in recovery. Everytime he sees a steering wheel he starts screaming, curls up into a fetal position, and pulls the sheets over his head.

Energiya = Lost his PS3 for a while, said he was coming back but never rang the bell. Still posts on GTPlanet but mainly about surviving in the wilderness and what to do if you get bitten by a poisonous reptile.

Higgi = hung up on playing PS3 Snooker. (Really--I'm not kidding).

Segel = trapped inside the game like Tron. I think he's Lorenz Gerber.

Mingo = lynched by the Spanish Sim Racing Mafia for being too passive.

Need I remind you, if it wasn't for a lot of generous prodding, you'd still be playing Shift and thinking it was the bees knees.

 

[MannyMoenjack]

Alan = busy in the 'real world'. In only 180 days he'll be old enough to apply for a real driving learners permit. I'm sure he'll do fine.

RS = still in recovery. Everytime he sees a steering wheel he starts screaming, curls up into a fetal position, and pulls the sheets over his head.

Energiya = Lost his PS3 for a while, said he was coming back but never rang the bell. Still posts on GTPlanet but mainly about surviving in the wilderness and what to do if you get bitten by a poisonous reptile.

Higgi = hung up on playing PS3 Snooker. (Really--I'm not kidding).

Segel = trapped inside the game like Tron. I think he's Lorenz Gerber.

Mingo = lynched by the Spanish Sim Racing Mafia for being too passive.

Need I remind you, if it wasn't for a lot of generous prodding, you'd still be playing Shift and thinking it was the bees knees.

 

[Biggles]

Higgi = hung up on playing PS3 Snooker. (Really--I'm not kidding).

Yeah, that's a weird one. Maybe another jjaisli Intervention is in order.

(higgi's probably intimidated by the prospect of the public shaming & humiliation that appears to be "Step 13" in the program )

 

[jjaisli]

Just a quick note to say I changed the Mont Tremblant round from Sunday May 9th to Saturday, May 8th. Change reflected in the o/p.

 

[jjaisli]

Just a quick bump to remind everybody the NEXT event (Montreal/Redwood Park) is this coming Sunday, April 25th! Hope to see you all back and maybe some new faces!

 

[vompatti]

Hope to see you all back and maybe some new faces!

Still waiting for my copy to arrive. Darn Island and it's ash clouds

 

[jjaisli]

The planes are flying again Vompatti. I hope you get your copy soon.


Looking at the leaderboards for the 348 Challenge at Redwood Park last night, I see we have a new "Fastest Guy Out There". Congratulations hm66! Top Spot now down into the 1:45s!!! Yowza!!! It just blows my mind. After a bit of tuning and pushing, I managed a time on Tuesday night in the low 1:46s, just .008 faster than Henrik and about 0.35 behind new_soul in first. I was actually trying to better New_Soul's time and claim the top spot for myself. And after about 25 laps, I just couldn't do it. Several times I was just a tick below his time going down the back straight but I always lost it again before the finish line. Well done guys.

As for the rest of you slackers who have YET to post a time, you better get to it! And remember car setups are permissible in this series. Good luck. Don't forget to run at least a few laps in the wet too. And I'll see you all on Sunday. 👍

 

[bullie77]

I skipped practice at least in a intensive way for the last of couple of days - I had a severe problem with my female dog and she was submitted to emergency surgery on Wednesday. I managed to do some laps yesterday night and raced a little with Manny, Arvore and Manunza.

My best time is 1:49:59 and I don't know how the hell I managed that since I haven't get yet another 1:49 lap. My normal time is 1:50, 1:51. Meaning that I will for sure adapt the same strategy used in round 1's first race - consistency and praying (for everybody else to crash)!

 

[new_soul]

Congratulations hm66! Top Spot now down into the 1:45s!!!

Wow... Congratulations, i was actualy out of my skin to beat Cihilledant's time, so thats fast!! 👍👍👍

 

[Hun200kmh]

Sorry guys but I don't I'll be able to make it for this one. Saturday won't be home, Sunday will - maybe - get home at about the same time the event starts but there's no way I will be able to practise the track or try to tune the car, so I would only be a danger and a nuisance to everyone else's races.

 

[jjaisli]

Wow... Congratulations, i was actualy out of my skin to beat Cihilledant's time, so thats fast!! 👍👍👍

Indeed! 👍 I'm usually a bit off the ultimate pace you two guys manage but I find for some reason, I usually have good speed around Montreal and was really giving maximum effort to put in my 1:46.38. If the stars are aligned right, I may be able to do a tiny bit better. But I doubt I'll ever get into the 1:45s. There must be something in the Danish water.

Sorry guys but I don't I'll be able to make it for this one. Saturday won't be home, Sunday will - maybe - get home at about the same time the event starts but there's no way I will be able to practise the track or try to tune the car, so I would only be a danger and a nuisance to everyone else's races.

I can't remember when you were ever a 'danger' to anybody. Besides, you drag us out to practice 5 different games, make us nuts and loopy with the Pentathlon, and then disappear in the middle of the event and leave it up to the rest of us to host the races you envisioned. And now you tell me, that you can't make it for an event, posted more than a month in advance, with a car and track you're already familiar with? Not that I'm trying to make you feel guilty or anything...

 

[bullie77]

There must be something in the Danish water.

Yeah... they call it up there Carlsberg!

 

[new_soul]

got in to the 1'45's as well, thats it, but was abel to sneak in to 1'44's which was werry surprising and a stunt man lap, i was driving on 2 wheels in the 2nd tight Sturn after hiting the curb and jumping around, was lucky to stay White and gain 0.3 then i lost a bit in the folowing Sturn, but got the braking and the apex apsoluteley 100% right under the bridge, and the folowing hairpin, was -0.4 at the time, then came to the last braking point, was late and again lucky to stay White, i tought i get a penalty, but it was totaly on the limit, was -0.9 at the end from my high 1'45's time which i set almoust constantly for 20 laps +/- 0.5..
My conclusion: high 1'45's are werry likely, but everything lower in a question of luck, due the caracteristics of the track, its werry easy to get in to the penalty zones hiting the curb and to make red lap mising the apex, driving trouhh the fast chicanes i dont know what is going to happen, the last one can have a troughput speed of 135 km/h but that is with hiting the curbs and if go faster the car is either in to the wall or a penalty, thats the interestinh thing with such tight and fast cirquits..

 

[jjaisli]

Bienvenue à Montréal...

And welcome to the 2nd round of the "1994" Ferrari 348 Challenge Season from Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, Montreal, Canada. (Redwood Park Circuit)

This event will start at 20:00 GMT on Sunday, April 25th. Remember, GMT does NOT take summer time into account so please double check your local time!

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QUALIFYING: 2 laps - conditions 50% dry/wet chosen at random
RACE 1 (Feature Race): - 20 Laps - Dry
RACE 2 (Sprint Race): 15 Laps - Wet

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This information is already posted on the first page but I'm also putting here for the convenience of any newcomers. If you're not familiar with the rules for this event, please read carefully! I will open a private lobby under my PSN ID: jjaisli approximately 5~10 minutes before the event starts and will first send race invites to those on my buddy list who are on-line and have expressed an interest in joining this series. If anybody new would like to join, provided there's space in the lobby, you're more than welcome. Just send me a PSN message and I'll send you an invite in return. However, considering the points will carry over from one event to the next, I would like to encourage those who want to join this series to try and show up for every race.


LOBBY CONDITIONS
TC: Off
ABS: Off
SC: Off
RL: Off
Transmission: Automatic (which will allow you to choose manual, semi or full auto)
Collisons: Off after penalty except during qualifying (see below for details)
Penalties: unlimited
Setup Restrictions: NONE! You're free to set up the car as you wish.
Grid Order: * see below


QUALIFYING
We will have a two lap qualifying session before the feature race. For the first lap, please start of immediately to avoid a penalty but then drive moderately until you build a gap of a least 5 seconds to the car in front of you. The second time time across the start/finish line will be your one and only qualifying lap. Collisions will be off during qualifying. If for some reason you have an accident or fall off the track, PLEASE continue your lap and do not go back to the lobby. The following Sprint Race will be run in reverse finishing order from the feature race! Qualifying could be run in either wet or dry conditions and will be chosen at Random before the event starts.


POINTS
Points will be awarded as follows:
Feature Race
1st place: 25 points
2nd place: 20 points
3rd place: 16 points
4th place: 13 points
5th place: 11 points
6th place: 10 points
7th place: 9 points
8th place: 8 points
9th place: 7 points
10th place: 6 points
11th place: 5 points
12th place: 4 points
13th place: 3 points
14th place: 2 points
15th place: 1 point
With an additional 1 point going to the fastest lap holder.

Sprint Race
1st place: 12 points
2nd place: 10 points
3rd place: 8 points
4th place: 6 points
5th place: 5 points
6th place: 4 points
7th place: 3 points
8th place: 2 points
9th place: 1 points
With an additional 1 point going to the fastest lap holder. Watch your red lines.


See you soon... 👍