SCC Old Timer Event - 365 GTB/4 - Dec 6th, 2009 - *Event Complete - Results Posted*

[jjaisli]

Back to setups talk (not that there is many, I see SCC folks, unlike what happens(ed) in GT5P, are very secretive about them ).

I recommend positive toe at the back, in everything else my setup is pretty much like this one, although with more extreme values.

Camber -4/-3.2
Toe -0.10/+0.10
Ride Height +4/+12

I think I have a top five laptime in all event tracks with this, apart from Infineon where I almost didn't practise yet.

I switched to positive toe in the rear and it made a difference in the wet. 👍 But I'm not sure it makes a difference in the dry. I ran a few more laps quickly last night and I wasn't able to match my previous times at Vallelunga or Infineon. But your settings for camber and (Yowza ) ride height are really extreme. I think that rear ride height may be giving you the extra speed. I know you seemed to be pulling on me slightly on the straights. So maybe that's the way to go.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Jeff, after you left I did a few laps at Vallelunga and I got a 1:55 something (I think it's a top 3 time, your best lap is a 1:57) so it definitely works after you "learn" it.

In Infineon I'm not so sure. The "Esses" are quite tricky and I guess my tune makes them even trickier.

 

[Ghost_Yelo]

The extreme camber works well on this car. The ride height tho... if I went too high I would battle with the stability of the car and getting the power down. But maybe the postive toe at the back will help with that..

 

[Paulzx]

Guys, am i correct in thinking that if you actually have the car in the single player game you will race online with the setup you have assigned, whereas if you don't have the car and race it online you are just given the default setup for that car?

I know you don't race with the name tags on - has anyone ever tried assigning a number for each competitor in the old timers challenge races which you would apply as your own vinyl livery? Just wondered if that would make it easier to identify drivers?

 

[Hun200kmh]

Guys, am i correct in thinking that if you actually have the car in the single player game you will race online with the setup you have assigned, whereas if you don't have the car and race it online you are just given the default setup for that car?

That is correct!

I know you don't race with the name tags on - has anyone ever tried assigning a number for each competitor in the old timers challenge races which you would apply as your own vinyl livery? Just wondered if that would make it easier to identify drivers?

I race with tags on but usually we quickly learn to identify others personalized liveries.



EDIT -Forgot to mention. All my cars have the number 13 on them.

 

[Ghost_Dice]

you would be corect .. i thing the Numbers are a good segestion . but its strange after the first five laps you know who's who .. and by looking at your splitt time it shows you the name of the driver infront and behind you . were a number wount mean anything to me .. unless you go and memorize it before hand .

Still think the Number would be rad .. even if its just for "the feel" of having a racing No assigend .

 

[bullie77]

Back to setups talk (not that there is many, I see SCC folks, unlike what happens(ed) in GT5P, are very secretive about them ).

I recommend positive toe at the back, in everything else my setup is pretty much like this one, although with more extreme values.

Camber -4/-3.2
Toe -0.10/+0.10
Ride Height +4/+12

I think I have a top five laptime in all event tracks with this, apart from Infineon where I almost didn't practise yet.

Not that I'm making a secret of my setups, fact is that I don't have a clue on how start up setting up, so I use as a start point some of your hints. For example, yesterday night did a couple of race with Frank at Vallelunga using setups pretty much as Jeff post them here: The car give definetively more confidence while cornering, allowing you to push it a little more. I manage to do 2'00'', later on offline, with this setup.

Today I'll try to increase negative camber and see how will behave.

Mario & Jeff: I've noticed from the last event the, while Mario prefers different negative cambers f/b (although if I recall you had more negative in back than front), Jeff usually uses similar values at both ends. Any particularly reason for this or is it simply the way the feels better for you guys?

Also, Mario, you suggest positive toe at the back. Why?

 

[jjaisli]

To be honest Bullie, there's really a bit of voodoo involved and it's not so easy to understand. If you adjust one setting, it affects the others and vice versa. In principle, having negative rear toe would increase oversteer when applying throttle. Generally, it's not something you'd want. But in a situation where you've reached the limit of corner grip and are fighting with understeer, this could be useful. So depending on your camber settings, both front and rear, positive or negative toe can and will affect the balance differently. And being a consistent enough driver to run laps and really feel the difference and where it works and where it doesn't isn't easy.

I can tell you as an example, with the setup I had, I was really struggling in the wet. And I think part of the reason for that was because I was using a very stiff front end. And when I changed to negative rear toe, I gained a little time but more importantly, a lot of confidence. As such, I'll probably stick with it. But it may not be any quicker in the dry. And directly comparing my setup and Hun's is difficult because we have different camber/ride height.

And of course, there's the question if Eutechnyx has really developed a sophisticated enough physics model that really portrays and accounts for all these adjustments with accuracy. I can tell you one thing. What works for one car, doesn't necessarily work for all of them. Setting up the LM gave me nightmares.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Not that I'm making a secret of my setups, fact is that I don't have a clue on how start up setting up, so I use as a start point some of your hints. For example, yesterday night did a couple of race with Frank at Vallelunga using setups pretty much as Jeff post them here: The car give definetively more confidence while cornering, allowing you to push it a little more. I manage to do 2'00'', later on offline, with this setup.

Today I'll try to increase negative camber and see how will behave.

Mario & Jeff: I've noticed from the last event the, while Mario prefers different negative cambers f/b (although if I recall you had more negative in back than front), Jeff usually uses similar values at both ends. Any particularly reason for this or is it simply the way the feels better for you guys?

Also, Mario, you suggest positive toe at the back. Why?

Sergio, my "default" setup is:

negative camber front and back (greater value at the front)

negative toe at the front. default at the back.

ride height 4 / +8

hard front / soft rear (springs, dampers, roll bars)


What I usually do is:

a) a few laps with the game's default setup;

b) a few laps with "my" default setup.

If mine is faster, I work from there.

What kind of behaviour do I avoid? A car that "snaps" between under and oversteer.

What kind of behaviour do I look for? A car that is more understeery than oversteery.

Then, each car's setup builds up through trial and error. One good example, the P4 finally had greater camber value at the back (the opposite of my usual settings) because I needed more grip there while cornering, or else the front would grip and the rear would "snap out". In this car (the 365 GTB/4) such a setup makes the car too understeery. So, I have max camber at the front and negative toe also. To balance it all, I found that positive toe at the back works.

 

[jjaisli]

Eutechnyx just announced that the updated patch was submitted to Sony today, December 2nd. As such, it's unlikely the update will be live before the event on Sunday. This is unfortunate but of course we don't really know how much of an improvement the patch will bring. Rather than delaying the event, I suggest we just proceed and hope things improve for the next round.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Yes, this will be done without the new patch. No problem, it won't be the first done like this.

Your main concern, however, cames from your own success, I guess people should try to get in your lobby as early as possible, because you may have less vacant "seats" than interested players. Considering my usual "lateness" I may very well discover, coming next sunday, that I will have to miss this event ...

 

[jjaisli]

Those who took place in previous rounds of the Old Timer series will be the first to receive lobby invites. Provided of course they're on-line at the time. From there I invite anybody else who's expressed an interest. And if there's any room left, I'll send them to people who took place previously or expressed an interest but aren't on-line. So you may still have a chance. But I would suggest checking your watch Sunday evening will increase the probability of you racing and not wasting the last week testing 365 set-ups for nothing.

 

[Ghost_Dice]

Those who took place in previous rounds of the Old Timer series will be the first to receive lobby invites. Provided of course they're on-line at the time. From there I invite anybody else who's expressed an interest. And if there's any room left, I'll send them to people who took place previously or expressed an interest but aren't on-line. So you may still have a chance. But I would suggest checking your watch Sunday evening will increase the probability of you racing and not wasting the last week testing 365 set-ups for nothing.

Thx J .... But

See me and Chilled Ant have this probleme of not getting into the same lobby
no matter what we try. Unless Ghost_Yelo does the Hosting .. then we get in fine, (pritty strange i know) .. But not the point .. Last event i got in urly and due to that Chilled Ant could not join . So i would segest that you send Him the invite first this time so he has a set spot . i will then try and join and if i get in "Awesome" if not .. so be it . i just feel it would be fair for him to get in over me due to the fact that i was in the last one.

But Me and Chilli will be in contact and corospond to get into the lobby in the right order. So from you i would just like to ask Not to hold back his invite due to the fact that he did not make the last event .

Thx in advance ...

"rolls out"

 

[jjaisli]

Certain people being 'incompatible' with each other and not being able to co-exists in a lobby is a problem that's existed since Ferrari Challenge. Why it exists, exactly what's causing it, how to stop it, well, nobody really has the answers. I've seen your post on Eutechnyx forum and I can pretty much assure you the patch will NOT solve this particular issue. What I would suggest, is the same thing I suggested to Arvore and it's what I had to do myself. Take a cat5 cable, plug one end into the PS3 and the other end directly into your modem. At least during these events. It's a major hassle but it's the ONLY way to assure there are no roadblocks on your own end. It could still be a problem with your ISP but at least then you eliminate all other possibilities.

I suggest the whole Ghost Team give it a try prior to the event and see if it works.

 

[Ghost_Yelo]

As a team we're pretty lucky with matching up. Except for myself and another member who just cannot match regardless. We're both on the same ISP as are most of the other members.

I know ChilledAnt is on Wireless internet and Dice on DSL. Where me and Alexx (the member I clash with) are both on DSL 4mb lines and the same ISP and we're both hardwired. This is so completely random its rediculous

 

[jjaisli]

Do you mean ChilledAnt is simply connecting his PS3 via a local WiFi network he set up or is he actually using some sort of wireless broadband technology? Either way it could potentially be an issue.

What I mean to say about hard wiring the PS3, is make sure you don't have any kind of firewall or router or switch between your connection and PS3. It's not something I would recommend for general use. But if you're having difficulties connecting, it's worth a shot.

 

[Hun200kmh]

But I would suggest checking your watch Sunday evening will increase the probability of you racing and not wasting the last week testing 365 set-ups for nothing.

Setup news update:

My setup, considered by some lousy drivers as totally useless ... allowed me last night to win a race in a almost full lobby and against very respectable competition.

So, Jeff, I won't even try to change my setup anymore. About checking my watch ... I can only hope I'll be able to enter on time. If I don't, no worries. I will just ask you to tell me if anyone else was left outside in the cold and, being that the case, I will open a second lobby and race with them just for fun.

 

[jjaisli]

...which track...?

 

[Hun200kmh]

Mugello Short ...

 

[jjaisli]

.
.
.
I've had a few good runs at Montreal too. From time to time.

 

[Hun200kmh]

In my defense (meaning, defending the excellence of my car) I'd like to add that immediately after that I was taken to a track where I never dove it before (Silverstone National) and that after a few laps trying to learn the braking markers (and going off track in the process ) I managed the fastest lap of the race, in the last lap.

So ... inspite of all you (nay)say, my car is quick, if driven by a competent driver!


I call as witnesses of all I'm saying:
new_soul
turnupdaheat
DrST01NeR
Hairy-Dave
drivatar
Estadios

PS - Meanwhile, I got a phonecall from a friend (hartur) saying that he is in trouble to clear the Scaglietti invitational at Paul Ricard. I scheduled with him a few practise online runs tonight at that track with that car - he didn't know all cars/all tracks are available for online play. I'll make it private but if anyone sees me online and wants to join that "odd" combo just PM me 👍

 

[jjaisli]

...that he is in trouble to clear the Scaglietti invitational at Paul Ricard. I scheduled with him a few practise online runs tonight at that track with that car - he didn't know all cars/all tracks are available for online play. I'll make it private but if anyone sees me online and wants to join that "odd" combo just PM me 👍

Sure, count me in! 👍 NOT! I feel his pain. That track is an absolute abomination! To think they ripped up the old Hockenheim Ring when they should have ripped up PR! It would be better served as a cow pasture! And when cows "do their thing" it would be an ever lasting tribute to what once lay underneath the field. It took me many tries to clear this event. Post patch, it was the only one I ever had a problem with. There's a relatively simple way to clear it though. After many, many attempts to do it in a clean way, I gave up and just dived into the field like a bowling ball and scattered them to the winds. The trick is to do it in a way that you can get moving again quick enough that only 2-3 end up ahead of you.

 

[turnupdaheat]

After many, many attempts to do it in a clean way, I gave up and just dived into the field like a bowling ball and scattered them to the winds. The trick is to do it in a way that you can get moving again quick enough that only 2-3 end up ahead of you.

Hey Jeff, think of all the agression points you could achieve by taking that approach on NFS Shift!!

 

[jjaisli]

Hey Jeff, think of all the agression points you could achieve by taking that approach on NFS Shift!!

👍

No doubt. I actually suffered through half a dozen attempts at Shift on the Audi S4 vs BMW M3 Duel, being knocked around like a pinball by the AI before I finally woke up and said, maybe I should just do it back. WHAM-O. NFS:Shift is actually a lot more enjoyable when you start to understand what EA really EXPECTS you to do. But the result is, the game is almost unplayable on-line except in private lobbies.

 

[Paulzx]

👍

No doubt. I actually suffered through half a dozen attempts at Shift on the Audi S4 vs BMW M3 Duel, being knocked around like a pinball by the AI before I finally woke up and said, maybe I should just do it back. WHAM-O. NFS:Shift is actually a lot more enjoyable when you start to understand what EA really EXPECTS you to do. But the result is, the game is almost unplayable on-line except in private lobbies.

Hard to believe that anyone actually thought it was a good idea to do an online driving game that encourages people to do the opposite of racing - just barge as many people as possible - did they not realise where that would lead?!

And then to confuse everyone by calling it a racing sim.

Sure that game has it's merits, but i'm still not really sure who they're aiming it at

 

[Paulzx]

Sure, count me in! 👍 NOT! I feel his pain. That track is an absolute abomination! To think they ripped up the old Hockenheim Ring when they should have ripped up PR! It would be better served as a cow pasture! And when cows "do their thing" it would be an ever lasting tribute to what once lay underneath the field. It took me many tries to clear this event. Post patch, it was the only one I ever had a problem with. There's a relatively simple way to clear it though. After many, many attempts to do it in a clean way, I gave up and just dived into the field like a bowling ball and scattered them to the winds. The trick is to do it in a way that you can get moving again quick enough that only 2-3 end up ahead of you.

I just re-did this challenge last night on elite setting, the track is awkward with no real rythm, it's not a satisfying track to race at all.

Plus that car is one of the worst stock handling cars in the game.
No matter what i do, the ai cars always seem to catch me in the last third of that track, even when i'm clocking the fastest times!

 

[jjaisli]

Hard to believe that anyone actually thought it was a good idea to do an online driving game that encourages people to do the opposite of racing - just barge as many people as possible - did they not realise where that would lead?!

And then to confuse everyone by calling it a racing sim.

Sure that game has it's merits, but i'm still not really sure who they're aiming it at

I'm afraid to say, I think they were aiming squarely at the main stream gamers. In a sense, Shift is not really a typical racing game. It's not really a typical driving game either. It's more like an 'anything goes' get to the finish line first derby. Maybe that's a bit harsh. A lot of games, including Ferrari Challenge, Prologue and others can quickly degenerate to a demolition run on-line depending on the type of people you run into. I've run into my share of punters no matter what I've raced on-line. But Shift is the only one that seems to actively encourage this sort of behavior.

I just re-did this challenge last night on elite setting, the track is awkward with no real rythm, it's not a satisfying track to race at all.

It's the only track that I haven't yet included in the Old Timer events so I felt a bit compelled. But it doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[hm66]

hi guys
I def. be there on sunday.Maby next event i will start praticing a little later,because i'm
allready tired of this car/tracks.Just to mix it up a little i did the trophy races in 365 spider.with a good set-up it's pretty good.

 

[jjaisli]

Don't lose that setup Henrik--the 365 Spyder is on the list for an up-coming old-timer race. But it won't be the 'next one'.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Starting up the PS3 now, won't do the PR / Scaglietti thing (my friend got some unexpected visitors), so will do a few more trophies for now and go online later. Hope to meet you guys! 👍