Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)
- Thread starter Azuremen
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McLaren
Premium
- 45,637
- Texas
If the car is designed to run on that fuel, chances are it will negate that "extra" by allowing the engine to remain more efficient & receive better gas mileage ($20 unleaded for 120 miles or $20 premium for a 150 miles is usually how my car ends up running). The act of spending an extra $5 every fill up to prolong your engine's life also seems highly convincing.
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
I think it might have something to do with DI and how quickly the valves get gunked up. The detergents in higher octane fuels might fight the problem slightly better than lower octane fuels.
Heat dictates octane ratings. Aluminum engines can use lower octane than iron blocks at same compression ratio.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
That's an interesting one. Over here the BRZ is the slower seller (though neither is exactly flying out of the showrooms - you still see a hell of a lot more MX-5s).
I suspect that's previously been down to the price. Or maybe marketing - Toyota did run a TV campaign whereas I've seen sod-all from Subaru.
- 60
- United States
It's because these cars are in a niche market.
The general public cares only a few things when buying a car: 1) Price 2) Horsepower
Not many people understand the benefits of a lightweight RWD sports car. No, what they see is a nearly $30,000 car out of door with a barebone, and "just" ~200hp.
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
Isn't the MX5 outselling both the fr-s and brz while costing just as much and having less power?
The badge plays a role in sales as well as well as how much people think a certain car should cost based on the badge.
- 60
- United States
- 2,112
- xNEVER-ONEx
Not gonna lie, the 200 HP is the reason why I havn't seriously considered BRZFRS as a future car. The light weight super handling is great if your a track junkie and like to customize your vehicles, but 90% of the people who buy sports car really can only use it in terms of straight line speed. Much rather pay for Mustang GT at 30k than a meesly 200 HP.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason people aren't buying the BRZ/GT86 in the UK is that the people who it appeals to can't afford it. It appeals to younger people, but a 200 bhp rwd sports coupe isn't going to be cheap to insure, and it's a lot of money to buy. For £25,000 you could get a very nice hot hatch. However, the biggest problem is probably that for half of what the GT86 costs you could buy a nice used 996.
Also, I really don't understand people who think the GT86/BRZ is underpowered. 200 bhp is not slow. And if you want more power, modify it. For a few grand you can easily have it making around 300 bhp.
Also, I really don't understand people who think the GT86/BRZ is underpowered. 200 bhp is not slow. And if you want more power, modify it. For a few grand you can easily have it making around 300 bhp.
- 60
- United States
It's not that 200hp is slow, especially when it's bolted to such a lightweight car (if I'm correct, this car is lighter than a Honda S2000!). But 200hp in ANY car is becoming more and more common. Most people buy cars to brag about its number.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
I don't know about you, but I don't know any people who brag about the actual numbers their car makes. 200 bhp may be becoming more common, but it's still a lot of power in a lightweight rwd chassis. If you buy a GT86, you enjoy driving, and you'll be totally within your rights to brag about how good the handling is. As for 200 bhp being common, it might be in America where petrol is cheap, but in most parts of the world it's still not that common. Sure, performance cars make massive power numbers, but less than 10 percent of the cars I see every day make 200+ bhp.
- 60
- United States
That is definitely the case. And like I said, the general public doesn't grasp the concept of road manners/handling/benefits of RWD. Most people are concerned with just: "how fast does it go?"
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
Yeah, the general public are generally idiots, people believe what they want to believe. Myself included, of course.
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
? Convertibles sell better than fixed roof cars?
- 60
- United States
- 2,112
- xNEVER-ONEx
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
It was a genuine question as I couldn't really find vert sales data.
They're chryslers. That's the biggest reason. Badge loyalty.
Same goes for majority of all awful cars. The previous gen Ford Escape for example. In its last years, when it was already 2 or 3 year overdue for a replacement, it sold something like 250-300k per year. Outselling everything while being one of if not the poorest car in class. Why? Because ford.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,637
- Texas
200Bhp is slow once you are more than accustomed to it, esp. for a car that's touting $25-$30K with options (a price bracket aimed at almost anyone but people with no real driving experience; newbies). And in an age where most mid-size cars above $30K are starting to generate 300Hp or more as the industry standard, it's going to get eaten up by them when the young guy trying to be a boy racer attempts to get by them.
Perhaps in the UK where one can really enjoy the car's high points because the country isn't built on a grid, it's enough power. But like Never-One, I passed on a BRZ because there's simply not enough power compared to my current car & the rest of the car doesn't retain enough overall qualities that surpass mine. If I was autocrossing on a consistent basis, I would sacrifice the power & creature comforts, but I don't. I get to do a couple highway pulls to get some fun on my commute and that's it, and the BRZ/FRS just doesn't come close for me. That's not a knock against the car because I know that's not what it was designed for, it just simply means it's not for me.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Hell, this new generation of turbocharged hot hatches with 170-200 hp are quicker in real world driving than a stock BRZ.
For me to consider one, I'd want less weight, a little more grip and perhaps 20-30 more foot-pounds of torque in the midrange.
For me to consider one, I'd want less weight, a little more grip and perhaps 20-30 more foot-pounds of torque in the midrange.
I'm lucky to live among winding and undulating roads; 200hp is more than plenty for my favorite routes. I understand where and how it wouldn't be enough, but I wouldn't be fazed if the Toyobaru made even less power. More than anything, I admire its lack of fatty extras for this day and age.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
I can't tell if you're being serious or just sarcastically parroting the opinions of most of the internet.
Certainly a large number of the roads I drove on towards the end of last year would be perfect in the BreezeFrees. Smooth, twisty, undulating, and overtaking isn't really an issue since there's either a) nobody to overtake in the first place or b) a spot where you can see about eight miles up the road and cruise past at leisure.
Actually, I'd say owning one would be less frustrating in the U.S. than it is in the UK, even considering the expectations of power over there. For exactly the reasons I mentioned above - more, and better twisty roads over there, and places to overtake rather than miles of hedgerows and endless slow-moving traffic you can't see past.
It's why the modern breed of turbocharged hot hatchbacks is so perfect for UK roads at the moment. They're fast, but they also feel fast without having to really wring its neck, which you have to do in the '86. And because they've got that low-down grunt, they can overtake where you might think twice in the BRZ/FRS.
I think an 86 would suit me down to the ground in the U.S. In the UK, I'm not so sure it would.
As for getting accustomed to power, I can very much understand that - the first few times I drove ~500hp cars there was a bit of a "woah" moment, but it's made 200hp cars, which used to feel very rapid to me, feel almost normal now.
That said, for a daily driver I don't really get that, because I tend to drive a bit quicker after I'm comfortable with a car anyway. My Honda is not a fast car, but it feels less slow now than it did when I bought it because I've got used to making the most of it.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
- 38,957
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
In those places, people drive pickup trucks.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
- 38,957
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
Fair point. But there are people who enjoy a good chassis on a good road.
I know. My point is, however, that there's always something or someone to screw it up. And to deal with them, you need POWAHH
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
Maybe I was just lucky on my trip then. I can understand the need for power, but that's mainly for the sodding massive hills you have over there, than it is for overtaking. But if I managed in a rental-spec Elantra and a beaten-up Chevy Astro, I'm pretty sure I could live with an FRS.
Also, does Florida actually have any good roads? It's never struck me as that sort of place. I mainly have everything west of the Rockies in my head when I'm thinking of America and great driving roads.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Once, over a decade ago, I was overtaken on a lovely, hilly road by a Land Rover. Not even a Defender, an honest to goodness Series xxx-somethingsomething with maybe twenty or thirty horses left in the original diesel motor and tires skinnier than Twiggy.
He was doing 80 miles an hour. Around the bends.
If that guy could do it with so little car, what's our excuse?
He was doing 80 miles an hour. Around the bends.
If that guy could do it with so little car, what's our excuse?
