Scottish Independence

[SniperRed3]

We'll have to sea tunaight for the reelsults.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

I hope these fish puns don't become a halibut.

 

[optiongamers]

Back on topic anyone that can vote voted yet?

 

[Touring Mars]

Any news on exit polls, by the way?

The Scottish Referendum Act apparently prevents news outlets from reporting any exit polls until after the polls have closed...

Well, that's a 'look', I suppose:

edit: I'm changing my prediction... I think it's going to be 52% NO 48% YES

 

[Omnis]

I don't know-- it looks like the Scottish vote is carrying more weight.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

I don't know-- it looks like the Scottish vote is carrying more weight.

No it's just the independent folk are more vocal so appear to have more support.

Was hoping brave heart would have been on tv last night.....

 

[MatskiMonk]

I think he meant the tubby fellow on the right.

 

[Brend]

Right now, I can see a 53-47 Yes. I just feel some sort of momentum shift.

 

[jackargent]

I went to Edinburgh about 2 weeks ago and noone even spoke about independance. It's a great place, the buses are great!

The problem with Edinburgh is there are so many tourists it is hard to meet the locals. I work in Edinburgh & I would never say it was talked about non-stop but it was certainly talked about much more than politics ever has been in my lifetime - add social media to that & mix-in the fact it has been even more talked about in the past week.

Quick question. What happens to the Shetland islands if scotland goes independent?

Alot of them would prefer to remain part of Britain. They also have alot of oil. Source

This is a frequently quoted myth. I live in Shetland & whilst they are fiercely Independent & certainly regard themselves as "different" to the extent that they will often refer to Scotland as if it was another Country, there has never been any support for any kind of separation. They have built up an oil fund (what a great idea - shame no one in the UK thought of that ) & have a level of infrastructure & services unsurpassed in the UK. They have also recently joined with Orkney & the western Isles to get some worthwhile concessions from the Scottish Government.

Does it really make too much difference at this stage? Surely people are voting only on an ideal, rather than an actual arrangement at this stage - and a referendum post finding out that they might be screwed (or minted) once we've split up, would surely yield different results.

I also hadn't realised how small the population of Scotland is. I'm sure the English may expect Scotland to be fully self-sufficient, is that feasible with such a small population?

There are plenty of successful small countries in the World & indeed many advantages in being a small country. Size isn't everything.

Can't help but compare opening of the Scottish White Paper... Fairer for all of Scotland blah blah.... to the fact that in this thread we have people support the independence of a part of our country (not just a union), because the government doesn't represent them well enough... Seems like the Scots are being sold the concept that Scottish politicians will have the Scottish peoples best interest at hearts - when in reality, most people think that politicians and governments only have politicians and governments best interests at heart.

It's not about whether the government reflects my vote. Scotland is governed from Westminster by a coalition the main party of which has 1 MP in Scotland.

Nah I'm back. Far too much risk involved in a Yes vote for me. And Salmond is an egotistical, nationalist 🤬

The vote is nothing to do with Salmond. We can vote him out. Personally, I am not his biggest fan, but he has higher satisfaction ratings in Scotland than any of the main party leaders have in the UK ... by a massive margin.

But the divisions within any local community are probably greater than the divisions between comparable people in different areas. Who is more different to me, (a 35 year old, single, white, physically able male, middle/senior management, no university education, personal and company pension, no kids, can't afford a mortgage, some personal debt, likes to play Gran Turismo)

A: A 35 year old, single, white, physically able male, middle/senior management, no university education, personal and company pension, no kids, can't afford a mortgage, some personal debt, likes to play Gran Turismo, that lives in Scotland..

or

B: A 17 year old, single female mother of two, with basic GCSE level education, and no job, that lives 1 mile away.

Potentially the person in scenario A is suggesting that he is not represented well enough by the same government that represents me, simply because he is 500 miles away, whereas in reality the situation is very different for someone living down the road.

The gap between the lifestyles of the decision makers and the normal people is far greater than the distance down the motorway (plus you can stop off at the Toby at Carlisle on the Motorway )

In principle I actually agree with you & I need to lay my cards on the table here - i am fairly left wing & would like to see some redistribution of wealth & more equality of opportunity. I do not believe that is realistic in the UK - The Labour Party has sold it soul to Big business & the small minded selfish middle classes. The best you can say of them now is "they are not quite as bad as the Tories"

There is no guarantee that will happen in an Independent Scotland. But there is an opportunity. I could tell you how but it would take too long.



Oh & I voted yes & it felt great (checked 3 times I was putting the X in the right box!!)

I have taken tomorrow off so I am on an all nighter tonight!

 

[SniperRed3]

I did get to speak to alot of locals as we aren't the typical tourists

 

[Famine]

This is a frequently quoted myth.

Of course it is.

Wait, Guardian. UK mainstream media bias!

*whoops!*

You do know that what you've just said is a criminal offence, under the Scottish Referendum Act, right?

Wait, Independent. UK mainstream media bias!

 

[jackargent]

Of course it is.

Wait, Guardian. UK mainstream media bias!You do know that what you've just said is a criminal offence, under the Scottish Referendum Act, right?

Wait, Independent. UK mainstream media bias!

I think that is open to interpretation:

" One word in this part of the Act which might have the potential to confuse is the reference to “voters” in the plural. Telling the world about how you yourself have voted might be acceptable; but to find out and then publish how everyone on your street has done is not. Large-scale retweeting of news from others who have voted may be risky. "

(my emphasis)

I suggest you pop onto twitter #yes, #indyref etc etc - the jails will be bursting at the seams. The we will re-enact the storming of the bastille!

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I'm expecting over 60% vote No if there is a silent majority out there and maybe about 85% turnout.

 

[Famine]

I think that is open to interpretation.

You would. Have a look at the bit you didn't bold, but still quoted:

"One word in this part of the Act which might have the potential to confuse is the reference to “voters” in the plural. Telling the world about how you yourself have voted might be acceptable; but to find out and then publish how everyone on your street has done is not.

GTPlanet's visitor numbers are rather high, so posting it on here is significantly more public than if I were to Tweet it.

Feel free to take the information or ignore it. I'm not bothered:

You remain solely responsible for anything found within your posts and agree to indemnify and hold GTPlanet and its affiliates, sponsors, or other partners and employees harmless from any claim or demand, including reasonable attorneys’ fees, made by any third party due to any material you post to or transmit through the forums.

 

[jackargent]

You would. Have a look at the bit you didn't bold, but still quoted:GTPlanet's visitor numbers are rather high, so posting it on here is significantly more public than if I were to Tweet it.

Feel free to take the information or ignore it. I'm not bothered:

you are a moderator - take off what I said if you think there is an issue with it

 

[Famine]

you are a moderator

No, I'm an administrator.

take off what I said if you think there is an issue with it

No, it's your issue. You agreed that if we're prosecuted for stuff you post, you pay the legal bills.

Feel free to take the information or ignore it. I'm not bothered:

You remain solely responsible for anything found within your posts and agree to indemnify and hold GTPlanet and its affiliates, sponsors, or other partners and employees harmless from any claim or demand, including reasonable attorneys’ fees, made by any third party due to any material you post to or transmit through the forums.

 

[Brend]

@Famine I'm sure you have quite a lot of jokes to use, which makes me wonder why you are recycling the same one about UK media bias over and over again?

 

[jackargent]

I have removed my original post - not because there is a snowball's chance in hell of either myself or GT Planet being prosecuted. but because we were having quite an amicable chat on here & I certainly wouldn't want to be responsible in any way for ruining that -

I'm not sure what the legal position is where you quote my seditious post - I'll leave that one with you.

 

[Robin]

That's it, 10pm polling stations have now closed.

 

[optiongamers]

Now we wait for the result.

 

[Famine]

@Famine I'm sure you have quite a lot of jokes to use, which makes me wonder why you are recycling the same one about UK media bias over and over again?

Largely because it amuses me. It's pretty much Loose Change level stuff and I find it mirthsome that people who would in one breath scald and mock conspiracy theorists who talk about "mainstream media" coverups of UFO, chemtrails (oh lordy, chemtrails), Kennedy or the Moon landings to, in the next, talk about the same mainstream media conspiring to silence their chosen side of this debate. It seems that anything reported that does not agree with your chosen side is bias - while anything reported that does is just fine.

As we've seen from conspiracy theorists on GTP in the past, it's fundamentally impossible to have a sensible discussion with people who reject any media but the ones (usually unreferenced ones) they've cherry-picked.

Oddly, George Monbiot wrote a piece in the biased UK media Guardian yesterday that blamed the UK media bias in favour of the No campaign for the failure of the UK media bias around the No campaign. Talk about "Yo dawg"...


Incidentally, I've spoken pithily on a number of occasions on here about the BBC's liberal use of facts when it comes to reporting and even chosen to stop directly funding the organisation by cancelling my TV licence and precluding the use of displays in the house to view as-broadcast material. It amuses me further that only now are some sections of the independence campaign are crying foul on the BBC. As someone said on my Twitter feed, it seems the BBC are an entirely impartial and world class news reporting agency... until they report on something you care about.

 

[Tornado]

No, it's your issue. You agreed that if we're prosecuted for stuff you post, you pay the legal bills.

I dunno. We should see what the experts who happen to disagree with you say on the matter.

 

[DK]

Ironically, he is standing at the top of the Mound in Edinburgh, less than 100 yards away from what really is the most spat on thing in Scotland, The Heart Of Midlothian. (Spitting on it is meant to bring good luck - but perhaps it would be a good idea if the neds didn't also spit their chewing gum on to it in the process though).

And here I was thinking the most spat-upon thing in Scotland would either be the Ibrox or Celtic Park.

 

[jackargent]

I dunno. We should see what the experts who happen to disagree with you say on the matter.

I somehow suspect that in the unlikely event that the forces of law and order are particularly exercised by this, GtPlanet will be a fair distance from the top of their list. I think I might just have got away with it.

 

[Liquid]

I was walking home from the pub when I realised ELO's Jeff Lynne wrote the perfect passive-aggressive letter in 1986 from rUK to the newly independent Scotland about the grass being greener. Just pretend 'Joe' is Scotland.

Dear Joe,
Don't know where to begin so I'll just hello,
Dear Joe,
Is it so much better now you're on your own?

(Is it alright?)
You never believed in yourself
(Is it alright?)
But now that you're free, does it help?

Is it alright?
Now that you've got what you want?
And is it alright?
Now that you're back where you belong?


Dear Joe,
Are you living it up every place you go?
Dear Joe,
If you're having a hard time it sure don't show

(Is it alright?)
You couldn't hold on in your mind.
(Is it alright?)
Now is it okay, is it fine?

Is it alright?
Now that you've got what you want?
And is it alright?
Now that you're back where you belong?

Dear Joe,
Can you believe that it's been so long?
Dear Joe,
Just thought I'd write and let you know

(Is it alright?)
You never believed in yourself
(Is it alright?)
But now that you're free, does it help?

Is it alright?
Now that you've got what you want?
And is it alright?
Now that you're back where you belong?

Electric Light Orchestra - Is It Alright?

 

[MatskiMonk]

Muhahahaha

Andy Murray coping some flack.. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...ised--scottish-independence-view-9740707.html

 

[optiongamers]

Muhahahaha

Andy Murray coping some flack.. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...ised--scottish-independence-view-9740707.html

He also got some death threats.

110% vote for independce you hear it first from cnn.

 

[Liquid]

"He has the right to cast his vote like everyone else."

Not living in England, he doesn't.

 

[optiongamers]

New youGov poll:

YES:46
NO:54

Seems very unlikely.

 

[Liquid]

Or likely, depending on your perspective.

Either way, I don't think it's going to be a landslide. There will be a very large percentage of unhappy people.