Scottish Independence

Do you support Scotland's independence?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 45.7%

  • No

    Votes: 10 28.6%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 5 14.3%

  • Don't care

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • Total voters
    35
Keef
So is Scotland a country or a state?
Click to expand...

Don't start this up.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a sovereign state made up of four constituent countries, known collectively as the 'home nations'. They are comparable with, but not equal to, an American state.
 
All these other countries seem genuinely surprised that the United Kingdom allowed a referendum to happen.

"What, they might be losing some of their territory? And they're letting the people actually VOTE?!"

Democracy must be slow in other parts of the world.
 
Alot of people I know are very disappointed today, and most of their comments have been pretty calm and considered, albeit clearly emotional. But, it is interesting to note that I could pretty much predict who would say what - and most people have stayed true to type thus far... intelligent, heartfelt and thought-provoking comments from most, but there has been some shamelessly spiteful crap from a few. Still, I guess they can always quote Alexei Sayle: "I'd rather be shouting spite than spouting 🤬"
 
I have to say, most people I've spoken to (mainly English) have been in the 'phew, thank god that's over, now let's move on' camp and a couple have even been sympathetic to the Yes campaign. However, I have seen a few comments knocking around social media which are in the 'ha, shut you whining Scots' camp... and worse. But like TM just said, I could have predicted beforehand which ones would have said stuff like that. Embarrassingly one of them is my cousin. :indiff:

I'm just glad it's over so I can stop making all these sensible posts. Back to the madness... :dopey:
 
haitch40
Source?
Click to expand...

I seen it on BBC news but I cant find a link to a news story so if I do I will post it.

EDIT:
image.jpg
 
Liquid
Don't start this up.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a sovereign state made up of four constituent countries, known collectively as the 'home nations'. They are comparable with, but not equal to, an American state.
Click to expand...

Roger the Horse
Scotland is a country. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a sovereign state.
Click to expand...
You sure Scotland isn't a federated state? That's what US states are. They're not internationally sovereign, aka independent, but are sovereign within the union and able to practice their own law.

The word "country" can mean many things. Is Scotland merely a country in the historical/cultural sense? Is it a nation? Merely a cultural region of the UK, like New England or the Great Plains in the US? What is it.
 
Touring Mars
Alex Salmond has resigned as Scotland's First Minister...
Click to expand...
Called by everyone, at 4.35am.
optiongamers
I seen it on BBC news but I cant find a link to a news story so if I do I will post it.
Click to expand...
Say no more.
Roger the Horse
Scotland is a country. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a sovereign state.
Click to expand...
Clearly you've never watched Pointless before. By "country" we mean a sovereign state that is a member of the UN in its own right.
 
During the first week at uni I was told under no circumstances am I to call anywhere a country. It is always a state as that just means the sovereign state not an ethnic group or anything.
optiongamers
I seen it on BBC news but I cant find a link to a news story so if I do I will post it.

EDIT:
image.jpg
Click to expand...
That will be this then.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/labour-ed-miliband-constitutional-convention

Labour are opposed to Cameron's plans to have certain things in Parliament only voted on by English MP's as they say it will create a 2 tier system.
So actually Labour's plans are to give Scotland more power over national policies.
 
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In all seriousness, Nicola Sturgeon must be odds-on favourite to be Scotland's next First Minister.

Every silver lining...
 
Keef
You sure Scotland isn't a federated state? That's what US states are. They're not internationally sovereign, aka independent, but are sovereign within the union and able to practice their own law.
Click to expand...

Like I said, they are comparable to a federated state, but not identical. It is because of political, cultural and historical reasons. It's... almost unique, in a way. The union of the crowns (happened at least twice) and several Acts of Union have given us this interesting mish mash.

If you want a "USA in Europe" in terms of the construction of a country, look no further than the Federal Republic Of Germany. It actually was intentionally based on the American system when they rebuilt West Germany after the war. Bayern, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt, Nordrhein-Westphalen and so on are federal states each with their own state government, governors, bylaws and so forth and are constituents of a "United States of Germany", for want of a better phrase.

It just isn't quite the same when it comes to the UK.
 
haitch40
Labour are opposed to Cameron's plans to have certain things in Parliament only voted on by English MP's as they say it will create a 2 tier system.
So actually Labour's plans are to give Scotland more power over national policies.
Click to expand...

What he actually means is once Scottish Labour MP's aren't allowed to vote on matters that don't affect Scotland, Labour won't be able to 1) vote down anything proposed by the Tories or 2) vote through their own proposals.
 
Also known as the West Lothian problem - Scottish MPs can vote on laws for the Union which Scottish MSPs can then reject, giving Scottish MPs power to create legislation that only affects English citizens and not their own constituents.

This is fun, because we're now getting to see why Cameron really called Salmond's independence bluff.
 
Stotty
What he actually means is once Scottish Labour MP's aren't allowed to vote on matters that don't affect Scotland, Labour won't be able to 1) vote down anything proposed by the Tories or 2) vote through their own proposals.
Click to expand...
I know this. I am a politics student though so I know you must spin things sometimes. :sly:
 
SniperRed3
Why doesn't England have a government?
Click to expand...

Because England spent so much time and effort incorporating the other countries on these islands into its own parliament, that it forgot to save its progress. It added Wales, Scotland and Ireland (in that order) directly to its own parliament instead of creating a separate British one.

So now, its incorporations cry for devolution or independence and get it, while England is left with a supranational (on a British scale) parliament whereby Welsh, Northern Irish and Scottish MPs can influence English-only business.
 
Unfortunately, you lot can't go independent. England is a stressed member of the Westminster machine. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are theoretically expendable pieces of bodywork.

Whoops.
 
Liquid
Unfortunately, you lot can't go independent. England is a stressed member of the Westminster machine. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are theoretically expendable pieces of bodywork.

Whoops.
Click to expand...
Damn right!

He said from miles away.
 

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