Searching For Evidence of Hidden Things

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If plam strip is related to apricot hill then whats the random "straight" track outside of Laguna seca? After wall breaking its close to the rear view mirror..... if the entire screen is a map!


Also has anyone noticed beta car picutres in the dealership menus? And also there is alot of "hidden" info in early psm mags! (i.e. volvo was going to be planned for gt2, but volvo said no)
 
More into gross similarities department:

g-0K-JVAKitT7xpacvHImp3tFa3rpMwp0kmZWsqnR0G3P_x8WDLjeoUIJ0d4OQMlX-5NfGH-UezUuA=w1280-h800-no

Dart Test 2
- - -
fwEhrl0VS1TGndA-Ix5zO4p1wMr795tWLwVvn_W-qfujef63mTMg3zL_u80IBFDgZrCA7mz8rjtqyw=w1280-h800-no

Dirt Test 2
- - -
latest

Motor Sports Land
- - -
Test also shares a bizzare resemblance to Motor Sports Land if viewed from top-down camera.
 
I guess it was a pre-cursor to Motor Sports Land.
Quite a lot of them.
_____

If plam strip is related to apricot hill then whats the random "straight" track outside of Laguna seca? After wall breaking its close to the rear view mirror..... if the entire screen is a map!
Like in case with beta Grindelwald, that's track's own garbled geometry. That's actually a common occurrence in various video games: if you get too far away on the map's coordinate scale, the glitchy geometry of the original location may appear at some point. Sort of like here.
 
More into gross similarities department:

g-0K-JVAKitT7xpacvHImp3tFa3rpMwp0kmZWsqnR0G3P_x8WDLjeoUIJ0d4OQMlX-5NfGH-UezUuA=w1280-h800-no

Dart Test 2
- - -
fwEhrl0VS1TGndA-Ix5zO4p1wMr795tWLwVvn_W-qfujef63mTMg3zL_u80IBFDgZrCA7mz8rjtqyw=w1280-h800-no

Dirt Test 2
- - -
latest

Motor Sports Land
- - -
Test also shares a bizzare resemblance to Motor Sports Land if viewed from top-down camera.

Unlike the others, I think the resemblance to Motor Sports Land is somewhat coincidental. I guess Polyphony wanted to add a small performance proving ground at the last minute, and slightly edited the layout of those two courses, and shrunk them massively.
 
Thats may be, but laguna seca is a mostly desert track being in cali, but the one sector outside has alot of trees and plus the greyness of the road was a totally different grey of the main track. Oh and its only viewable from certain angles and approach it, it disappears. It may be common, if it was a dead on copy, but its different.
 
Unlike the others, I think the resemblance to Motor Sports Land is somewhat coincidental.
> three beta tracks
> having similar layout
> coincidentally
what.

Thats may be, but laguna seca is a mostly desert track being in cali, but the one sector outside has alot of trees and plus the greyness of the road was a totally different grey of the main track.
Do I really need to list all the reasons why putting one track in the geometry file of another track very far away from another track's geometry is nonsense other than it's not a very intellectual action?
Also, Laguna Seca has plenty of trees at the starting section.

Oh and its only viewable from certain angles and approach it, it disappears.
Common occurrence for such garbled geometry. Could be a lower LOD.

It may be common, if it was a dead on copy, but its different.
Once again, could be a lower LOD or sth.
 
> three beta tracks
> having similar layout
> coincidentally
what.


Do I really need to list all the reasons why putting one track in the geometry file of another track very far away from another track's geometry is nonsense other than it's not a very intellectual action?
Also, Laguna Seca has plenty of trees at the starting section.


Common occurrence for such garbled geometry. Could be a lower LOD.


Once again, could be a lower LOD or sth.

Ok, but to me it reminded me of midfield raceway or similar track.


EDIT: side bar: I did manage to extract I think, the beta GT1 wheels, to use in the GT2 wheel shop to make some early (like e3) "beta" cars. Test pictures coming soon!

Also has anyone else ever figured out how to change or modify track textures like I did?
 
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OK, as my words don't really sound convincing to you, I decided to go do some sightseeing.

LAGUNA SECA DRAG STRIP #1 - TO THE FAR NORTH OF THE TRACK
Let's start with the more famous one, which can be seen if you get the red dot to the upper side of the screen.
Before we start, one thing:
dragstripnorth1_by_sirius_r-dbes89j.png

Note that when we start going north, the closest part of the track to us is Rahal Straight. That's rather important, I'll explain why later.

dragstripnorth2_by_sirius_r-dbes89f.png

At this point camera starts going banana.

dragstripnorth3_by_sirius_r-dbes898.png

Aaaaand here we are!

...are we?
Nope. When you get closer to the "drag strip", it disappears...

dragstripnorth4_by_sirius_r-dbes895.png

...and reappears.

dragstripnorth5_by_sirius_r-dbes88v.png

...and again.

dragstripnorth6_by_sirius_r-dbes88p.png

...and again.

dragstripnorth7_by_sirius_r-dbes88k.png

...AND AGAIN.
So it keeps reappearing multiple times more. However, each time it lets you get closer to it.

dragstripnorth8_by_sirius_r-dbes88g.png

This is the last time we see the "drag strip" before a long gap; here it lets you get close enough to it to see the wall and trees near it rather clearly.
Note that it's not too far from the border where camera positioning malfunctions.

dragstripnorth9_by_sirius_r-dbes88d.png

After said long gap, the "drag strip" comes again, now ready to slap you in the face with reality.

dragstripnorth10_by_sirius_r-dbes88a.png

Here we got close to it again; we can see the same wall and trees placed along it.
Now we are are ready to get aboard the "drag strip". BUT. See where the red dot is?

dragstripnorth11_by_sirius_r-dbes885.png

...well, yes. It really is the corner before Rahal Straight.



LAGUNA SECA DRAG STRIP #2 - TO THE WEST OF THE TRACK
I'll keep this one short because, as we can get almost inside of it, all we need to do is a small comparison.

dragstripwest1_by_sirius_r-dbes884.png

Here's the beginning of the supposed "drag strip".
(there's not much of it "remaining" besides this corner and the straight itself; I'll also get to it later)

dragstripwest2_by_sirius_r-dbes881.png

Here's the last corner of Laguna Seca before the finish line. Spot 10 differences.

Now, let me explain why we only see Rahal Straight in the first case and only the last corner in the second one:
The game only keeps around 0.75 km of the track's driveable geometry in its memory. It usually loads chunks of driveable road according to the car's position, even when you get out of boundaries.
But it's possible to break this algorithm, right on this track: when you get out of track's boundaries, follow the track to Andretti Hairpin and then go straight to the corner to the north of it.
Because you didn't follow track's contour and got to the corner without of loading the gap between it and Andretti Hairpin into memory (you still have Andretti Hairpin loaded in the memory, remember?), the game won't load the road at the corner and you won't get forced back to the track.
glitch_by_sirius_r-dbes87z.png


upd:
I was right.
yarly_by_sirius_r-dbesdg0.png

If you go out of boundaries and go north from Andretti Hairpin's side, the game will load Andretti Hairpin's geometry instead of Rahal Straight's.
 
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Do I really need to list all the reasons why putting one track in the geometry file of another track very far away from another track's geometry is nonsense other than it's not a very intellectual action?
Though I do agree with your point, NFS Carbon did do this. (Which is ironic since you posted that link earlier) If you break out of Palmont city in the game, you can actually drive to the canyons and even the drift track and race there in free roam. Though I doubt GT2 would have anything like this, my point is, it has been done before.

Which brings to one other thing, I wonder when the track viewer will come out. Whenever it does, I think we'll be able put this old drag strip rumor to sleep once and for all.
 
Which brings to one other thing, I wonder when the track viewer will come out. Whenever it does, I think we'll be able put this old drag strip rumor to sleep once and for all.

Well that's what I thought when a track viewer was mentioned, since the bit of track outside of Seca disappears whenever you get near it, stopping you from having a good look of it. However, I've never been convinced it is this supposed "drag strip", especially after we've seen similar instances of tracks outside of Grindelwald in the demos, and they were found to be builds of the track IIRC, but the track viewer would put that to bed either way.
 
Though I do agree with your point, NFS Carbon did do this. (Which is ironic since you posted that link earlier) If you break out of Palmont city in the game, you can actually drive to the canyons and even the drift track and race there in free roam.
1. Unlike GT2, NFSC has all the locations in one "world"; GT2 has separate files for each track and only loads one track.
2. You can still get garbled world geometry in NFSC like in GT2 if you go beyond the boundaries of the game's minimap.
3. The reason why some locations of NFSC are separate is because its development was quite a mess and its devs had no time to properly unite everything (if they could, the end result would be similar to UFSUC's Tri-City Bay in terms of size). However, that's a different story. Contact the person who made the video I've linked for more info on that subject.
 
Well that's what I thought when a track viewer was mentioned, since the bit of track outside of Seca disappears whenever you get near it, stopping you from having a good look of it. However, I've never been convinced it is this supposed "drag strip",
I used to think Laguna Seca had a hidden drag strip, heck I even mentioned it earlier in this thread, but now I no longer think so.

especially after we've seen similar instances of tracks outside of Grindelwald in the demos, and they were found to be builds of the track IIRC, but the track viewer would put that to bed either way.
I do still wonder what all that stuff is in the sky like what BisharpVercetti posted earlier. Seems a bit strange that it's there despite not driving outside the track. Probably just glitchy from being early in development.

1. Unlike GT2, NFSC has all the locations in one "world"; GT2 has separate files for each track and only loads one track.
2. You can still get garbled world geometry in NFSC like in GT2 if you go beyond the boundaries of the game's minimap.
I know. I think just about any game would give you garbled geometry when driving too far away.

3. The reason why some locations of NFSC are separate is because its development was quite a mess and its devs had no time to properly unite everything (if they could, the end result would be similar to UFSUC's Tri-City Bay in terms of size).
That's interesting.
 
Every track in GT2 is replicated in all directions, kinda like mirrors or "alternate universes". You canonly view the mirror images at certain view angles.

This also exists in Super Mario 64. It's explained and known to speedrunners, as it can be used to finish levels quickly for certain challenges. Youtube user pannenkoek2012 explains this in this video:


The only difference is that you can't interact with the mirrors. So everything that is seen outside of Laguna Seca, is Laguna Seca, and only Laguna Seca. As @SiriusR said, it makes absolutely no sense to make a 3D asset that will never be seen under normal circumstances.
 
I used to think Laguna Seca had a hidden drag strip, heck I even mentioned it earlier in this thread, but now I no longer think so.
There's no reason to unite two tracks in one file in a game like GT2 unless they use same chunks of the road. GT2 unlikely supports more multiple AI paths and multiple player spawning points, so you would still need to create a separate track file with new AI path and spawning points to make it work properly.
(NFSC uses a different system for its tracks, allowing having all of the game's driveable locations' geometry to be stored in one "world")

I do still wonder what all that stuff is in the sky like what BisharpVercetti posted earlier. Seems a bit strange that it's there despite not driving outside the track. Probably just glitchy from being early in development.
Possibly because Grindelwald has been placed a bit too far on the coordinate grid in that demo.

I think just about any game would give you garbled geometry when driving too far away.
That's exactly what the video I've linked says.
 
I used to think Laguna Seca had a hidden drag strip, heck I even mentioned it earlier in this thread, but now I no longer think so.

To be fair, when I saw all the videos of tracks outside Seca, supposedly being the "lost drag strip", it did peak my interest, I must admit, but I wasn't completely sure, and certainly now I find it pretty much uncertain it was the so-called drag strip.

I do still wonder what all that stuff is in the sky like what BisharpVercetti posted earlier. Seems a bit strange that it's there despite not driving outside the track. Probably just glitchy from being early in development.

Well I remember this being theorised many, many pages back that these segments of track outside the actual one, and those in the sky, were possibly "beta" segments of track, since the textures looked slightly odd, used as "tests", since they had no track path, and weren't physical entities. The same could be said of Grindelwald in the demos, were what looked liked an enitre version of the track, was visibly distant in the sky, as if it was a "beta-within a beta" type thing.

IIRC, Deep Forest had/has a small black blob distant in the sky, near the last corner, which someone theorised could be a bit of track outside the main circuit. And in-fact, I can't remember who, but didn't some one theorise that that blob in the sky could've been one of the beta tracks from one of the earlier demos (was it the Mcdonalds demo or the bonus disc? not sure), that had the same sky-box as Deep Forest. Though if was anything like Seca, would imagine that's highly unlikely.

However, if they were test tracks used for development, why would they be left in the final game? Whilst GT2 was rushed for it's released, it would still be odd that random segments of track would be left there, especially if memory space was tight with GT2. However, with those pieces of track not bein "real" guess they wouldn't take up that much memory anyway.

However with all this guesstimating, what @submaniac93 said does make perfect sense, since those random pieces of track do seem to mirror different parts of Laguna Seca, in small segments, hence why they can only seen at particular angles. And since I know about the out of map "glitches" in Super Mario 64, that would fit from what I can tell.
 
There's no reason to unite two tracks in one file in a game like GT2 unless they use same chunks of the road. GT2 unlikely supports more multiple AI paths and multiple player spawning points, so you would still need to create a separate track file with new AI path and spawning points to make it work properly.
Yes. Lets think about Seattle and Seattle short for example. The alternate route you travel on the short version isn't even present on the longer version and vice versa.
 
Ok, ok. I understood long ago, I was just speaking my experience.


, it makes absolutely no sense to make a 3D asset that will never be seen under normal circumstances.

But yet you found a hidden spoiler on the mazda cosmo 3d mesh file, a very nice 3d asset that will never be seen under normal circumstances.
 
But yet you found a hidden spoiler on the mazda cosmo 3d mesh file, a very nice 3d asset that will never be seen under normal circumstances.

Maybe they initially wanted a spoiler on the Cosmo but decided against it. Or the spoiler was modelled by "accident", thanks to Cosmos with spoilers being used as source material.
When it came clear that the spoiler was unwanted, the modellers simply ripped it off of the car.
 
Hmm that's true, but it's only around 5-10 polygons, when a track is well over the thousands, and heavier on the console's RAM. The spoiler is actually always present in game (it would be visible in game with a plugin that displays wireframes), but it's mapped on an alpha'd part of the car's texture, so it's not visible.
 
Happy 4th everyone!

In celebration of today, I made a patriotic viper nameplate using the GT1 nameplate with the GT2 viper logo!

dvpgnl--4th.png


Screenshot_2017-07-04-04-35-00.png


Amurika! Lol!

Also included is a zip of the nameplate in .tim format for your enjoyment!

Happy 4th, and thank you!


P.s. More to come! Also I figured out how to keep the "dish\lip" on the rims when making custom rims!


EDIT: My GT2 MOD work can be found on my MEGA:

https://mega.nz/#F!Dolm2ALT!MEokZlX_iO4lbDYEAJRXdg

Please enjoy, thank you,
B_Rad88
 

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I see Grindelwald was mentioned quite a lot, so lemme throw my original theory about the gibberish outside the track that we all could see.
My theory is that since Grindelwald and Eiger are close, the gibberish was Eiger Path, and you could see both tracks during the race. Of course it'd be lower poly and such, much like the Seattle Short bits in the Seattle circuit are.
 
I see Grindelwald was mentioned quite a lot, so lemme throw my original theory about the gibberish outside the track that we all could see.
My theory is that since Grindelwald and Eiger are close, the gibberish was Eiger Path, and you could see both tracks during the race. Of course it'd be lower poly and such, much like the Seattle Short bits in the Seattle circuit are.
Words cannot describe... nevermind.
There's no reason to unite two tracks in one file in a game like GT2 unless they use same chunks of the road.
Besides, we already came to conclusion that Eiger Path is Grindelwald's early name.
 
Just out of curiosity, also to inquire to add to my collection,

Does anyone have a copy of :

Electronic Gaming Monthly JUNE 1999 Issue #119?

I can't find a copy anywhere except amazon, (I may have to be moving again, so idk if I want to order a hard copy), a pdf copy is fine if possible. I would like to have a copy for identification and educational purposes only. Beside I'm tring to gather a GT1 & GT2 periodicals collection.

Thank you,
B_Rad88
 
Real quick but how do you get the demo cars to show up on the retail version (specifically 1.2 for me). I imported all the necessary cdo and cnp files and all that, and I even edited the header with hex, but nothing is coming up :(
 
Real quick but how do you get the demo cars to show up on the retail version (specifically 1.2 for me). I imported all the necessary cdo and cnp files and all that, and I even edited the header with hex, but nothing is coming up :(

I don't remember it entirely, but I think you gotta erase some bytes from one of the language files. Don't take my word for it...
 
I don't remember it entirely, but I think you gotta erase some bytes from one of the language files. Don't take my word for it...
Also, I think erasing the bytes depends on the comparison between them in the language file. Like, Car 1 (Final) 37.000bytes Demo 30,000bytes are a example.

(I'm more interested in the car palettes though).
 
More specifically, I'm trying to import the Saleen SR and XJ220 LM from the Test Drive demo into 1.2 NTSC. I did everything like I should've, including editing the header, deleting some bytes from a random language file so that it would fit, the works.

Must be doing something wrong cause the game loads, the cars just aren't visible.
 
Real quick but how do you get the demo cars to show up on the retail version (specifically 1.2 for me). I imported all the necessary cdo and cnp files and all that, and I even edited the header with hex, but nothing is coming up :(


You don't need to delete bytes. You need to add bytes! Add 16 "00" in the 5 "00" part in the header. You don't need to modify language or anything else to see the cars in game. But if you don't replace an existing car it will be body only! And they have to be .gz.

More specifically, I'm trying to import the Saleen SR and XJ220 LM from the Test Drive demo into 1.2 NTSC. I did everything like I should've, including editing the header, deleting some bytes from a random language file so that it would fit, the works.

Must be doing something wrong cause the game loads, the cars just aren't visible.

You might have them in-game as a body only.


MMRivitt has a quickie tutorial on his youtube video!
 
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