Should PD go back to basic?

[Strittan]

After the announcement of the partnership with Ayrton Senna Institute, I've been thinking about where the franchise is heading, and what made me a fan of it back in the late 90's.

GT1 was a very focused racing game of top notch quality. It was hardcore and in-depth, but at the same time quite simple and straight forward. Buy a cheap car, get yourself a racing license, and make your way up the ladder. It was all about you, your racing career, your cars, and how you tuned them. This is what made GT1, 2, and 3 awesome in my opinion.

Ever since GT4 however, I've felt as if Kaz and his PD have started to lose focus. GT4 was great, no doubt, but it was not as focused as the previous titles in my opinion, with new features like Photo Mode, B-Spec, and Driving Missions being introduced.

In GT5 PD took this a step further, with a separate B-Spec career, Special Events, Seasonal Events, celebrity appearances, and Standard Cars. The latter of which made the game's quality inconsistent.

The reason I'm making this thread is because I think it would be better if PD took a step back and improved the original features (the racing/driving experience, the tuning, and the customisation) before including new ones, that are not very well done anyway. Oh, and the online service should be of high priority to improve as well, although it's no an original feature.

Thoughts?

 

[Brend]

The thing is, a racing game with no niche features(like celebrity appearances etc) just isn't as marketable as it was in the 90s. Racing in both the virtual world and real world is becoming less and less popular unfortunately and I feel like PD not want to try and get a step above the opposition but also try and capture the essence of racing as it is today(and how legends of the past raced), I totally agree about you regarding them shifting their focus. Reliving Senna's races are fair enough(not saying this will be a feature but just using it as an example) but if they are made boring and pointless by the way the GT A.I. are then what's the point? What's the point of having licenses if they aren't used properly: See NASCAR and WRC.

I'd love them to focus on the basics...I just don't see it happening.

 

[Johnnypenso]

IMO opinion, the core of the game, for me that's graphics, physics, sound, gameplay and tactile feedback, all need to be kept up to current technological standards as the highest priority. Without all 5 the game will never be all that it can be no matter how many bells and whistles and frilly lacy edges it has. GT has the resources to do all of the above and many of the frills as well, but it takes focus and commitment to a certain philosophy and I just don't think they are there yet. The bells and whistles seem to take priority sometimes over core issues.

 

[eran0004]

In GT5 PD took this a step further, with a separate B-Spec career, Special Events, Seasonal Events, celebrity appearances, and Standard Cars. The latter of which made the game's quality inconsistent.

The reason I'm making this thread is because I think it would be better if PD took a step back and improved the original features (the racing/driving experience, the tuning, and the customisation) before including new ones, that are not very well done anyway. Oh, and the online service should be of high priority to improve as well, although it's no an original feature.

Thoughts?

Well, this is assuming that there is a negative correlation between adding new features and improving original aspects, and implying that the former causes the lack of the latter. I'm not so sure. Is it better to have fifty guys working on the suspension, or to have five? I'm guessing there are some diminishing return factors involved here, making it more effective to have many small teams working on different areas, rather than a few big teams working on similar areas.

 

[Badasp5.0]

I think so. Honestly I think that PD should ditch photomode until they can perfect the game. But I know that would be a very very unpopular move.

 

[avens]

I believe the major problem with GT5 and with GT6 is that it is way too comprehensive, which ends up in not finishing anything.

For that the solutions are either getting rid of some features and licenses, which would be unpopular, or hiring substantially more staff, that's not going to happen since Kaz himself said he doesn't want to.

 

[frivoloushobby]

I'd like to see PD give a little more attention to a-spec's career mode. As is, it's not really immersive... I'd like to see proper championships and the ability to consistantly use the same vehicle rather than a 90s Japanese car specific race, 60's British car specific race. Inclusions like Nascar and karting were never things I felt were missing from GT, nor would I miss them if PDs resources would be spent else where.

 

[Badasp5.0]

I just would love a balanced car list with both performance and everyday cars world wide all rendered to the premium standard with the correct stats and tuning options and race modifications.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

I think so. Honestly I think that PD should ditch photomode until they can perfect the game. But I know that would be a very very unpopular move.

I just deleted all 800 of my photos by mistake last night ( why the heck is delete and delete all so close to each other) I think Photomode should stay if you couldn't tell by the gif

 

[JohnBM01]

I'll answer this one in a professional manner. I am no insider or anything, but I am a little bit crazy GT fan from Texas who also blogs. It isn't a wall of text if it all doesn't make sense.

You would say that the series has more tried to find more avenues to push the series so much than to say the series is losing its touch. I think one of the signs of GT being more focused towards possibly a Career-type mode was when GT5 introduced kart racing. The implentation of generated rally courses was a sign that the rally racing was really starting to get its act together in GT5. And of course, seeing many more cars and some more illustrious manufacturers shown evolution of the Gran Turismo series. So despite the disappointments I've associated with Gran Turismo 5, there were many things to show that Gran Turismo has never looked better...

Which brings me to my answer to this question. Gran Turismo is a Triple-A franchise. The further evolution of triple-A games and franchises involves trying new things and trying to extend the excellence of a franchise by trying new ideas. The great ones last. Look at Mario. Look at Mario Kart. Look at Sonic (even though it's no longer a GREAT franchise). Look at Need for Speed, Forza Motorsport, HALO, God of War... you go from there. The high-level franchises and games evolve and adapt. If Gran Turismo stuck to the same formula instilled between (using your comments) GT1 through GT3, the series would remain classic. But you know how things go. When an originator or an original concept is incorporated, it gets old after awhile. Someone has to try something new or some new dynamic to an old norm has to be done to (1) keep the concept fresh and (2) set a new standard for future players to emulate or better. What worked for Pole Position in the '80s would be incredibly boring and outdated for postmodern gaming times. I don't think Polyphony Digital is straying too far away from the standards they set. If anything, the series [after GT5] is a hot mess of ideas. The ideas are helping, but not much is really executing well to hammer the head of a nail. Does GT need some new life? A new direction? Some interesting changes to the original formula? As much as I think about the GT series and how far it has gone and where its future may lie, I often think about these things and wonder myself what more can be done to enhance GT. Even an old dog like Gran Turismo can learn new tricks.

A lot of the focus has changed. However, I don't think things have completely changed to where PD lost the basic focus of Gran Turismo. I am not sure even if PD thinks their own franchise is away from anything basic. So to say whether or not PD should go back to basics at this point is pretty vague. We should start asking this question when PD decides to try some outrageous concept or serious overhaul that completely ruins the Gran Turismo experience. For now, let's just hope the series doesn't go in a negative direction for which the series can not recover from.

 

[Earth]

I would say PD never got past the basics. Yes, they added many new features, but these features were never more then 'basic'. Even the core features. The addition of NASCAR, Super GT, etc just highlighted this.

 

[Strittan]

I'd like to see PD give a little more attention to a-spec's career mode. As is, it's not really immersive... I'd like to see proper championships and the ability to consistantly use the same vehicle rather than a 90s Japanese car specific race, 60's British car specific race. Inclusions like Nascar and karting were never things I felt were missing from GT, nor would I miss them if PDs resources would be spent else where.

I definitely agree about the career mode. The championships/events should not be specified by country or decade, but rather by engine/drivetrain configuration, and power/weight limits.

Having NASCAR cars is fine, but having a NASCAR championship with only two tracks from the real life series, and no more than 16 cars on track, is just stupid. The karting is cool though, as it's usually the starting point of real life racing careers, but a few more kart tracks (preferably real life ones) wouldn't hurt.

I just would love a balanced car list with both performance and everyday cars world wide all rendered to the premium standard with the correct stats and tuning options and race modifications.

Agreed. There're tons of stuff to do in the tuning/modifications department. There's actually one feature I would like them to add, but it's within the modification aspect of the game, and that's a livery editor.

I really like how iRacing has done it, where you start out with a white car and then choose between a number of livery designs, colours, and sponsorship logos. So in a future GT game it could be that if you get a racing modification done to a car, it gets all white (or the colour in which you purchased the car with in the first place) and then you design your livery, instead of having the Gran Turismo presets in GT5.

 

[Strittan]

DP, sorry.

 

[Badasp5.0]

Agreed. There're tons of stuff to do in the tuning/modifications department. There's actually one feature I would like them to add, but it's within the modification aspect of the game, and that's a livery editor.

I really like how iRacing has done it, where you start out with a white car and then choose between a number of livery designs, colours, and sponsorship logos. So in a future GT game it could be that if you get a racing modification done to a car, it gets all white (or the colour in which you purchased the car with in the first place) and then you design your livery, instead of having the Gran Turismo presets in GT5.

That sounds nice! A blank canvas could be a lot of fun.

 

[Quakebass]

"In GT5 PD took this a step further, with a separate B-Spec career, Special Events, Seasonal Events, celebrity appearances, and Standard Cars."

Special events didn't deviate from the game - they were one of the few ways the new race types were introduced. Tell me how many times you used NASCARs, Karts, and Rally cars (and tracks) in A-Spec. Hardly at all. If PD expanded on those, they wouldn't have seemed out of place. Seasonal events were simply expansions of A-Spec... I don't see how that deviates...Standard cars don't deviate either, that's simply a quality/consistency issue. What PD needs to do is find the things that they can complete, and then add them. Photo mode is excellent, why should they just ditch it...? Now that PD has all sorts of assets, it's too late for them to ditch them. What they need to do is stop introducing new ones until the old ones are completed and well-utilized, which seemingly only Photo mode has been so far. The track generator may be in GT6, but that's GT6. We still haven't seen a robust A-Spec/career, consistent quality in content, or well-utilized assets.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well, this is assuming that there is a negative correlation between adding new features and improving original aspects, and implying that the former causes the lack of the latter. I'm not so sure. Is it better to have fifty guys working on the suspension, or to have five? I'm guessing there are some diminishing return factors involved here, making it more effective to have many small teams working on different areas, rather than a few big teams working on similar areas.

The sounds are horrific, the tire model sucks, gameplay is terrible, AI is about the worst of any sim, the feedback to my G27 is not up to speed, there are 800 cars that look like they are 10 years old...need I go on? Obviously, whatever it is they are working on is taking away from the core elements of the game so I believe there is a tradeoff. There doesn't have to be given their budget, but there is.

 

[Strittan]

"In GT5 PD took this a step further, with a separate B-Spec career, Special Events, Seasonal Events, celebrity appearances, and Standard Cars."

Special events didn't deviate from the game - they were one of the few ways the new race types were introduced. Tell me how many times you used NASCARs, Karts, and Rally cars (and tracks) in A-Spec. Hardly at all. If PD expanded on those, they wouldn't have seemed out of place. Seasonal events were simply expansions of A-Spec... I don't see how that deviates...Standard cars don't deviate either, that's simply a quality/consistency issue. What PD needs to do is find the things that they can complete, and then add them. Photo mode is excellent, why should they just ditch it...? Now that PD has all sorts of assets, it's too late for them to ditch them. What they need to do is stop introducing new ones until the old ones are completed and well-utilized, which seemingly only Photo mode has been so far. The track generator may be in GT6, but that's GT6. We still haven't seen a robust A-Spec/career, consistent quality in content, or well-utilized assets.

The only thing I liked about the Special Events, was the karting, but it should've been in the A-Spec career instead. The Seasonal Events lacks immersiveness, but I sometimes do them... to earn money. I don't think the Photo Mode is great (hardly used it) but to each his own. Oh, the course maker! How could I forget about that one?! Oh yeah, because it sucked.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Yes. I think it is best for PD to finish what's in the game first before moving to newer things.

 

[Kurei]

Yes, they should. As many have stated above, there are many areas that are not "being" 'all they can be'. The career 'immersion' could be better laid out, think karts to formula-racers, rather than miata's to hyper-hypothetical concepts (X1)

 

[tpark103]

Master your craft before you learn an entirely new style. You start looking as if your not so good at anything.


"This is coming from an over 10yr fan of GT."

 

[eran0004]

The sounds are horrific, the tire model sucks, gameplay is terrible, AI is about the worst of any sim, the feedback to my G27 is not up to speed, there are 800 cars that look like they are 10 years old...need I go on? Obviously, whatever it is they are working on is taking away from the core elements of the game so I believe there is a tradeoff. There doesn't have to be given their budget, but there is.

Well, it's one thing to say that something is bad.
Another to say what's causing it.

 

[TheeFrogmanlego]

I think so. Honestly I think that PD should ditch photomode until they can perfect the game. But I know that would be a very very unpopular move.

Photomode is arguably the best feature of GT5, its flawless..

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I think they should get back to basics and probably expand on them, but at the same time go forward and put in things that are to be expected of such a game. Unique isn't being the opposite of what is popular (e.g. no damage or correct damage model)

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I have to say no because the original did not include online play and that is the most important aspect of pretty much all games in this day and age. We need improvements in online play and we need a full leaderboard system which has been missing in previous GT titles, GT5P looked like it was heading in the right direction but then GT5 had no leaderboard and was a big disappointment.

Sure it would be nice to perfect the core aspects of the game but online play should be considered a core aspect and a top concern even though it was not in the first 4 GT titles.

I enjoyed GT4 very much but its LAN mode was a joke falling far short of many inferior games to say the least.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Absolutely. PD shouldn't be building houses on shaky foundations.

Yes. I think it is best for PD to finish what's in the game first before moving to newer things.

I think the problem is that PD think that they have "finished" features like sounds and AI, considering they have not significantly improved them since GT1.

 

[Soundtrack]

Absolutely. PD shouldn't be building houses on shaky foundations.



I think the problem is that PD think that they have "finished" features like sounds and AI, considering they have not significantly improved them since GT1.

Where is the problem, considering GT1 was so awesome?

More seriously, I consider GT as a work in progress, PD will continue to bring updates and tweaks to the game as has been the case since the game arrived on PS3. I understand this can be an annoyance for people who stick to boxed products and/or can't connect and thus upgrade easily. Still, sound engine overhaul is in the making as we've heard, and I doubt PD isn't aware of the complains about the AI. GT5 Arcade mode update introduced a difficulty slider, witch - far from perfect - allowed at least some tweaking to be done. As for the rather disappointing A-Spec of GT5, I think there is a possibility of features like user configurable/community shareable events and championships to be be included somewhere down the line. The evolution has brought a new paradigm, and if indeed there have been flaws, I believe PD reasonably succeeded in fully rebuilding the game and turning it into the open architecture it has become now. This is the foundation the GT franchise will prosper on IMO.

Finally, connectivity not only changed the rules, it brought Online racing as well.

 

[Imari]

Where is the problem, considering GT1 was so awesome?

GT1 was 15 years ago. What was acceptable for sounds and AI in 1998 are not acceptable two generations of hardware later.

Some progression has been made, but there are a number of features in GT5 that are of extremely low quality compared to other current titles.

 

[BBang]

I'll answer this...

I do not post the whole comment by JohnBM01 but I agree with it wholeheartedly. You are a wise person my friend, and people should at least try to consider what you said. For my .02 cents on what you said:

I voted other, because I think the GT franchise is indeed expanding into territory that, in the end, could very well pay of really, really well. Problem I think is that this expansion, and the way they did it (and still do it) is that PD should have had a better plan from the start. GT5 was dissapointing to me because so many experiments about it were totally not representative of what they should have been, Nascar, WRC and Karting, are the first that come to mind here. Then there's the integration with GT Academy, something which I applaud even though I myself am not big on this academy thing, I don't really do anything with it. Alas, yet again we have to wait to see it fully blossoming though.

The whole issue is that, until all of these ideas are fully implemented, we might already be two installments furthter. And I do understand that people feel like they're being used as beta-testers. It's a very understandable feeling. I don't really feel that way, but I would truly like to have a complete GT again, one that's completely focused, yet not feeling stalwart.

I do see (or think I see) where PD is headed in the future. And that future, if you ask me, is very, very bright. It just takes a lot of patience to get there, patience that shouldn't have to be brought up in the first place if there was a truly tight gameplan from the beginning. But alas, there isn't, and so I have to choose; forfeit GT6 and keep on playing FM4, since I really like it and think it is perfect as a simulator for this generation. Or, play GT6 alongside it, switching every so often to get a breath of fresh air. I think I'll go with the latter option. I love GT, still do, even though 5 was kind of dissapointing. It's up to me, and up to you, how you take it, knowing that GT6 propably still won't be the kind of focussed GT that we would propably all like to see. You can buy it, or wait for the future and enjoy some other games in the meantime. There's plenty of fish in the sea. I will stand by GT because I think I see where they are going, and I like it. They're building towards something much bigger, much more comprehensive than any GT ever was, but it is just going to take some time. What you do with that time, is up to you and you alone.

I've made my decision long ago...and bought a Logitech G25 in advance for it...

 

[Soundtrack]

GT1 was 15 years ago. What was acceptable for sounds and AI in 1998 are not acceptable two generations of hardware later.

Some progression has been made, but there are a number of features in GT5 that are of extremely low quality compared to other current titles.

Maybe I should have emphasised the irony behind that first part of my post.

Anyway, I don't think I denied the weaknesses that have been raised on multiple occasions. Still I don't think PD has lost focus (on the contrary) or that they are dangerously deluting the core game. They are expending the franchise in a way that actually make sense (to me at least). Some realisations where/are greater successes than other, but considering individual taste is involved it will be nearly impossible if not pointless to try to rank them.

In the end, while n°5 can be seen as a weak link in the GT chain, I believe PD are clearly working hard to make Gran Turismo an even stronger franchise. It remains to be seen how many of the justified critiques will be addressed in GT6. Less than 40 days to get some hands-on answers...

 

[DawgCCCP]

In my opinioin going back to basics, probably will kill the franchise.

They need sales to continue on working. With that said they need to attract more new players towards the GT series.
We could say GT5 was an experiment, since most of the features were half broken in my eyes. Game was dull and became quite boring after a while. But I do think PD learned alot from the mistakes they made in GT5 and all the future GT games will only become better.