Should PD have let the modding slide? ... OP Updated.

[Lock2Lock]

If I wanted to chop down a tree in my own backyard I should be allowed to. So yeah, if you'd only use a hybrid offline I wouldn't stop you. The problem is, there's no way a car can be marked for offline use only. I might trust you to play by the rules, that doesn't mean random kid on the internet will.

You should realize that the PP system keeps them in check. Don't know of you know that or not

 

[thelvynau]

If I wanted to chop down a tree in my own backyard I should be allowed to. So yeah, if you'd only use a hybrid offline I wouldn't stop you. The problem is, there's no way a car can be marked for offline use only. I might trust you to play by the rules, that doesn't mean random kid on the internet will.

Ok aside from the legalities of it all why would you have a problem with hybrids.

@ lock dont look at my previoys pages I had my mind changed lol.

 

[Lock2Lock]

@ lock dont look at my previoys pages I had my mind changed lol.

I know you tried them and they were ok. I mean i did the same thing. I mean besides the point that he is making which I said the same thing too. I highly doubt now that manufacturers like Ferrari will even care about this now. But they will care if it happens in the future game right off the bat

 

[thelvynau]

I know you tried them and they were ok. I mean i did the same thing. I mean besides the point that he is making which I said the same thing too. I highly doubt now that manufacturers like Ferrari will even care about this now. But they will care if it happens in the future game right off the bat

Since I was expecting PD to act by now im thinking the same thing.

 

[Voxalizer]

I know about the PP keeping it in check, but somewhere it's flawed.

I'm hosting a weekly lobby limited to 600PP cars. All participants are experienced drivers. Let's take a race on Nürburgring GP/F as an example. Winner of the first race drives a nonhybrid Honda Takata Dome 03 and does average laptimes of around 1.51. Which are impressive laptimes for 600PP races with 12 players. Next race some random guy comes in and joins with a Lancia Delta HF who drives laps around 1.48, which is impossible (just pick a 600PP car and try GP/F, then imagine you'd also be driving online with others chasing you). You tell me PP keeps hybrids in check?

And let's just ignore hybrids with negative PP values for now.

 

[thelvynau]

I know about the PP keeping it in check, but somewhere it's flawed.

I'm hosting a weekly lobby limited to 600PP cars. All participants are experienced drivers. Let's take a race on Nürburgring GP/F as an example. Winner of the first race drives a nonhybrid Honda Takata Dome 03 and does average laptimes of around 1.51. Which are impressive laptimes for 600PP races with 12 players. Next race some random guy comes in and joins with a Lancia Delta HF who drives laps around 1.48, which is impossible (just pick a 600PP car and try GP/F, then imagine you'd also be driving online with others chasing you). You tell me PP keeps hybrids in check?

And let's just ignore hybrids with negative PP values for now.

So your saying his lancia wasnt 600 pp?

 

[Voxalizer]

So your saying his lancia wasnt 600 pp?

His Lancia was 600PP but was far superior than 600PP non hybrids

 

[thelvynau]

His Lancia was 600PP but was far superior than 600PP non hybrids

Regardless of whether it was a superior 600pp car he would still need some skill to get that time.

 

[Voxalizer]

Regardless of whether it was a superior 600pp car he would still need some skill to get that time.

Well I never said it's impossible for people driving hacked cars to be skilled. Then again, it's not like the guy in second place wasn't skilled. 3-4 seconds per lap, that's an impossible margin. Since my room is limited to max 600PP, either the hybrid had negative PP value (but that would mean the winner was driving barely accelerating since otherwise he would launch forward so fast it would have been obvious) or there's another factor in PP that can create an unfair advantage.

 

[thelvynau]

Well I never said it's impossible for people driving hacked cars to be skilled. Then again, it's not like the guy in second place wasn't skilled. 3-4 seconds per lap, that's an impossible margin. Since my room is limited to max 600PP, either the hybrid had negative PP value (but that would mean the winner was driving barely accelerating since otherwise he would launch forward so fast it would have been obvious) or there's another factor in PP that can create an unfair advantage.

Im not sure doesnt sound to specific on a advantage.

 

[Hei]

I know people who are skilled beyond skilled. I'm not a bad driver, but one of my friends is 3 or more seconds per lap faster than me in identical gt500's.

 

[Voxalizer]

I'm not going to brag about how good the regular participants in my lobby are, but just try driving 1.51 in a max 600PP car on GP/F. Then come back here and say someone who is driving 1.47 also in a 600PP car isn't cheating. Seriously, I respect you for sticking with your opinion but those laptimes are simply impossible. Not even the Amo's and Immortalpilots of this world would drive those times.

On a sidenote, if as you say PP is the great equalizer that keeps hybrids in check... Why did PD ban choosing cars from your own garage from TTs?

 

[05XR8]

As I see it, rooms titled, " I need Hacked car please", should be titled "Show N' Shine". People just want to show off modded cars. Nothing like going into a room thinking your getting a free run and someone just passes you with sparks flying and you find out its a 300mph Fiat 500. Everyone have their fun for now and when GT6 comes, we'll see where everyone is.

 

[paulfindon]

I think one thing that need we all need to remember is that just because someone has made a Hybrid doesnt mean they are going to cheat in online races or time trials. And not all the cars that are tweeked are infact 50000bhp capable of only going in straight lines. There seems to be alot of people branding everyone the same.

Ive had a go at making hybrids, mainly just changing a few engines (swapping a M5 V8 for a GT40 V8 as it sounds better) and then down tunning them to a realistic bhp. I suppose the only silly car i have done was a Renault Aventime fitted with a race tuned Nascar Ford V8 pushing out 900bhp at the rear wheels (not an unrealistic conversion by any capable garage, infact wasnt there one actually made with a Williams F1 engine?)

But one thing i can say honestly is that although i do have these cars i would never use them to gain an advantage either in online lobbies or on the time trails/drifting challenges.

Not all of us intend to pull the pants down on fellow racers and shaft them just to win!

 

[Hei]

Weight an hp with pp would be best, but we can't do that. I'm guessing super light on a good amount of hp.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm not going to brag about how good the regular participants in my lobby are, but just try driving 1.51 in a max 600PP car on GP/F. Then come back here and say someone who is driving 1.47 also in a 600PP car isn't cheating. Seriously, I respect you for sticking with your opinion but those laptimes are simply impossible. Not even the Amo's and Immortalpilots of this world would drive those times.

On a sidenote, if as you say PP is the great equalizer that keeps hybrids in check... Why did PD ban choosing cars from your own garage from TTs?

Unfortunately, you'll have to do PP and HP/Weight checks unless PD comes up with something to exclude hybrids from open lobbies. This will eliminate the high HP cars. Also, if you allow unlimited tires in the room so you can use race softs, then someone will be able to use Racing Super Softs and you won't know. Limit the room to Race Mediums to combat this.

There are ways to protect against these two things but it takes a bit of work.

 

[Lock2Lock]

I think one thing that need we all need to remember is that just because someone has made a Hybrid doesnt mean they are going to cheat in online races or time trials. And not all the cars that are tweeked are infact 50000bhp capable of only going in straight lines. There seems to be alot of people branding everyone the same.

Ive had a go at making hybrids, mainly just changing a few engines (swapping a M5 V8 for a GT40 V8 as it sounds better) and then down tunning them to a realistic bhp. I suppose the only silly car i have done was a Renault Aventime fitted with a race tuned Nascar Ford V8 pushing out 900bhp at the rear wheels (not an unrealistic conversion by any capable garage, infact wasnt there one actually made with a Williams F1 engine?)

But one thing i can say honestly is that although i do have these cars i would never use them to gain an advantage either in online lobbies or on the time trails/drifting challenges.

Not all of us intend to pull the pants down on fellow racers and shaft them just to win!

Agreed. I wish before people come into to this thread and their first post contains "why would anyone wants to drive a car that can only drive in a striaght line" or "yeah 3000hp Fiat or Civic that all it does is spin tires" or "these cheaters need to be banned" ect. I wish people would look at all of the facts and see not everyone likes unrealistic pointless cars. Not everyone likes to be a fake and try to get a advantage online without telling people.

I mean maybe there should be a OP update with a summary of what has been discussed with some examples of cars with modifications done. I mean include the part of both unrealistic and realistic into the OP but put "READ OP BEFORE YOU POST" in the thread title. I mean i hate every day we have a few people come in and constantly say what I was talking about before. Then we have to constantly repeat ourselves. I feel like I should just copy and paste.

 

[thelvynau]

Agreed. I wish before people come into to this thread and their first post contains "why would anyone wants to drive a car that can only drive in a striaght line" or "yeah 3000hp Fiat or Civic that all it does is spin tires" or "these cheaters need to be banned" ect. I wish people would look at all of the facts and see not everyone likes unrealistic pointless cars. Not everyone likes to be a fake and try to get a advantage online without telling people.

I mean maybe there should be a OP update with a summary of what has been discussed with some examples of cars with modifications done. I mean include the part of both unrealistic and realistic into the OP but put "READ OP BEFORE YOU POST" in the thread title. I mean i hate every day we have a few people come in and constantly say what I was talking about before. Then we have to constantly repeat ourselves. I feel like I should just copy and paste.

You know it might just work!

 

[Lock2Lock]

You know it might just work!

I'll message MOTORTRENDmitch my post to see if he likes my idea enough to put it into the OP I guess. Maybe it will. Then when someone says something like that again we can just tell them to read the OP first. Then we can skip the nonsense and maybe by them reading the summary of all PROs and CONs we can all have a reasonable discussion about everything without people assuming we all love ridiculous cars.

 

[Voodoovaj]

...or there's another factor in PP that can create an unfair advantage.

There is. You can make a part of your car worse to make up for a deficiency. For instance, let's say you have a car that runs on rails but has no horsepower. Reduce the grip modifier so it's corner speeds drop but it's PP drop as well.

Everyone fails to grasp that this is all virtual. There are no "aluminum blocks" or "race suspensions". Everything is just number ranges. Each car is a collection of range limitations. When you throw a "race suspension"on something, all you are really doing is changing the range of values.

The dreaded grip multiplier isn't a cheat, it's the basic element of the game. cars are set to +/- 100 grip. Rain, snow, tires, tire wear, all these things change that base value. Sure, set the value to 110 and lose 100hp, and you car will drive like crap.

The best cars in the game, cars like the 111R, LFA, CSL, NSX variants, are the cars that are the closest to a perfect balance of numbers.

It's time to stop calling it cheating. It's just advanced tuning. Some values are still locked away (suspiciously enough) so that modding within a target PP isn't out of control. Can there be some cars that are outliers? of course. The game already has outlier cars. So why aren't people always driving the best car at any PP range? Why aren't we all driving LFA's? Because everyone loves the fantasy of tuning a particular car, and even with these new tools, there are limitations with each car that makes it fun.

 

[Johnnypenso]

There is. You can make a part of your car worse to make up for a deficiency. For instance, let's say you have a car that runs on rails but has no horsepower. Reduce the grip modifier so it's corner speeds drop but it's PP drop as well.

Everyone fails to grasp that this is all virtual. There are no "aluminum blocks" or "race suspensions". Everything is just number ranges. Each car is a collection of range limitations. When you throw a "race suspension"on something, all you are really doing is changing the range of values.

The dreaded grip multiplier isn't a cheat, it's the basic element of the game. cars are set to +/- 100 grip. Rain, snow, tires, tire wear, all these things change that base value. Sure, set the value to 110 and lose 100hp, and you car will drive like crap.

The best cars in the game, cars like the 111R, LFA, CSL, NSX variants, are the cars that are the closest to a perfect balance of numbers.

It's time to stop calling it cheating. It's just advanced tuning. Some values are still locked away (suspiciously enough) so that modding within a target PP isn't out of control. Can there be some cars that are outliers? of course. The game already has outlier cars. So why aren't people always driving the best car at any PP range? Why aren't we all driving LFA's? Because everyone loves the fantasy of tuning a particular car, and even with these new tools, there are limitations with each car that makes it fun.

I'm not an expert at Hybriding by any means but I believe this to be spot on. I've been experimenting with different combinations here and there of grip, chassis, downforce, engine, and tranny and have yet to find anything better than the Elise/LFA type of setup without using their parts. The top cars in the game are the top cars in the game because they have the most ideal combination of weight/power/chassis etc already. I might be able to shave a tenth here or there in one of those cars if I can find a motor that's slightly better or a bit more or less grip, but I think that's about the limit.

As far as I can tell, you can't improve anything without affecting PP, other than gearbox and SuperSoft Tires. I think the effect of extra gears is minimal or nothing on the vast majority of tracks, and SuperSofts can be controlled by setting a room to no more than Race Mediums.

 

[Lock2Lock]

There is. You can make a part of your car worse to make up for a deficiency. For instance, let's say you have a car that runs on rails but has no horsepower. Reduce the grip modifier so it's corner speeds drop but it's PP drop as well.

Everyone fails to grasp that this is all virtual. There are no "aluminum blocks" or "race suspensions". Everything is just number ranges. Each car is a collection of range limitations. When you throw a "race suspension"on something, all you are really doing is changing the range of values.

The dreaded grip multiplier isn't a cheat, it's the basic element of the game. cars are set to +/- 100 grip. Rain, snow, tires, tire wear, all these things change that base value. Sure, set the value to 110 and lose 100hp, and you car will drive like crap.

The best cars in the game, cars like the 111R, LFA, CSL, NSX variants, are the cars that are the closest to a perfect balance of numbers.

It's time to stop calling it cheating. It's just advanced tuning. Some values are still locked away (suspiciously enough) so that modding within a target PP isn't out of control. Can there be some cars that are outliers? of course. The game already has outlier cars. So why aren't people always driving the best car at any PP range? Why aren't we all driving LFA's? Because everyone loves the fantasy of tuning a particular car, and even with these new tools, there are limitations with each car that makes it fun.

Agreed.

Like you said about the grip multiplier.

Take a bone stock Nissan GTR for example. You put racing soft tires on and I put sports soft tires on.

Sports tires-

PROs- I will be able to corner faster
Not as much understeer.
And the car will not be as snappy while having understeer.

CONs- acceleration is a little bit slower.
When tire wear is on the tires will have a strong loss of traction after they get half way down.

Racing tires-

PROs-
maximum grip
Faster acceleration
When tire wear is on and tires are worn half way down you will still have very good grip.

CONs-
Understeer from the grip level
Snappy understeer
And slower turning on throttle.

Basically each car has its PROs and CONs but it both have there ways that they are better than the other.

 

[Nurburgthing.]

Wow, I wonder why they may think that. Perhaps it's because they're able to read? The terms of service are not written in secret code.

And, the more people that break the terms, the less they can do about it.

And while some people might be afraid to lose their accounts and their console (yes, Sony has the rights to disable your console if you're using it to break the terms of service), there are other who thinks that game developing should remain in the hands of the game developers and that hacking does more harm than good to the game.

So you think that PD and Sony are looking at all this and shaking their heads?

If I were Kaz, i'd be enamoured with some of the creations that have emerged and, it might even give me some ideas for GT6.

What is the best way to lose a huge chunk of the audience? To terminate hacker accounts or to simply stand by and let people hack whatever they want? Multiplayer is a big part of modern gaming and if multiplayer gets smashed to pieces by hackers, no one is going to buy a PlayStation. Apart from the hackers.

So, if PD could add a filter for cars with fettled parameters, you'd be happier?
Also, i've only ever expierienced hacking in GT5, nothing else EVER on the PS3.
Paranoia?

"I'm bored, thus I'm allowed to do anything I want. It's all for the lol's."

No, its not "for the lol's". I'm a serious petrol head who loves well modified cars. I'm also a big fan of OEM+ styling.
Building proper hybrids is a skill. Hours of fiddling with settings and testing things.

And "we've all" is in fact you. GT5 doesn't stop selling six months after release, it's still selling thousands of copies worldwide. Ever day there are new people joining GTPlanet asking for help with this new game that they bought.

And, I bet they will either be one of two types of GT5er, one who loves hybrids or one who doesn't.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that a large majority of new GT5ers will have joined just for some hybrid action.

"We've all" refers to a massive majority of Gran Turismophiles that have stuck by the game since the PS1 days.
If I speak for myself, then so be it.

Methinks you don't like modded cars.

I don't think he does .


FIN.

 

[Voodoovaj]

So you think that PD and Sony are looking at all this and shaking their heads?

If I were Kaz, i'd be enamoured with some of the creations that have emerged and, it might even give me some ideas for GT6.

Every notice how, just before a band releases a new single, their previous hits are played on the radio? It build relevance. I'm not going to take away credit from those who have made garage editors, but I'm sure Sony is quite content that they are relieving them of the burden of re-cultivating the fan base.

It's quite coincidental and convenient that this modding trend has emerged at this very opportune time. Expect an official announcement for GT6 at this year's E3.

 

[Stavingo]

I hope they at least give out some news on and also for the fact we're still able to tune the cars hybridding wise with all the engine swaps and such, as long as they can filter realistic or unrealistic modding, which is probably close to impossible.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I hope they at least give out some news on and also for the fact we're still able to tune the cars hybridding wise with all the engine swaps and such, as long as they can filter realistic or unrealistic modding, which is probably close to impossible.

Seriously? The PP system already filters out unrealistic mods. It's been said and proven. Unrealistic mods result in massive PP ratings. If you don't want them in your room, set limits.

 

[Ranman20]

Seriously? The PP system already filters out unrealistic mods. It's been said and proven. Unrealistic mods result in massive PP ratings. If you don't want them in your room, set limits.

Look at the negative pp red bull it still bypass rules.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Look at the negative pp red bull it still bypass rules.

But any car that is at negative PP is instantly/insanely obvious

 

[1241Penguin]

Seriously? The PP system already filters out unrealistic mods. It's been said and proven. Unrealistic mods result in massive PP ratings. If you don't want them in your room, set limits.

If filtering ludicrous cars is your intent, you need to set HP and weight limits, not PP limits. But even then you won't be able to figure which cars have been grip multiplerfied.

 

[Voodoovaj]

If filtering ludicrous cars is your intent, you need to set HP and weight limits, not PP limits. But even then you won't be able to figure which cars have been grip multiplerfied.

Grip multiplier hits the PP. If you are seeing a car that has not taken a horsepower hit, but still has massive extra grip, they may be using the SUPER SOFT RACING tire. That will give load of extra grip without a PP hit. This one, I agree, is a cheat.

The only way to limit that is to limit the tire choice to RACING MEDIUM or less.

As has been stated, if someone has a -PP, then the car is so ridiculously overpowered that it will be barely controllable and easy to spot. Kick the offender just as you would any asshat that screws up your room.

I raced my mods last night. The only one that anyone clued into was the c7 vette simply because it was a c7.