Sick with no new DLC cars.....

[m0rris]

Indeed (to TRK29) , and unfortunately I think that the master of GT is an analogue player in a digital age... to coin someone else's phrase.

When he started GT you could churn out a game and leave it there, simple no DLC and limited interaction with the press and the consumers. Today we live in a much faster consumer culture, what should this mean for GT series? Intense media relations and people hired to get the message out correctly to all corners of the world and to promote the product, it also means more targetted DLC and tonnes of it.

Dirt3, which has surpassed GT5 in my attentions, it has tonnes of DLC (arguably at the expense of the game), a very proactive PR department and suitable content. What it means is that I couldn't miss the game coming out, which is why I eventually got it, I knew what was coming and when, I was ready for DLC and shelled out for it and finally enjoyed the game as I adopted my rally alter ego within the Dirt world as I pounded around within the illusions of the 1970s,80s, WWRC Trail etc.

GT5 to contrast has a woeful PR system that leaves GTPlanet's members (ie non polyphony folk) as your best chance to get any sense of the timings etc, consequently we were totally behind on information/timings. It has also had poorly targeted DLC that hasn't really appealed to the fans, nor has it made the game that much more playable (with the exception of Spa). I can recreate any races, I can't really buy any cars that I've lusted after for ages, just rehashes of the bizarre world of Kaz.

For example, had they binned the last round of DLC and given us instead decent LeMans 2012 related cars, released last week with a suitable build up to draw attention to what they were doing etc they'd most likely be raking it in. Instead we've got some crappy little Nissans, a Beetle and an out of date (if lovely) LeMans car a couple of months ago... none of which really appeal to me, nor do they help increase the playability of the game.


I know this means jack all to PD but really get a grip, I love the GT series it has introduced me to so much that interests me ATM and has helped give us real racing games on many platforms directly and indirectly but get a grip... your last product was unfinished, poorly marketed and hardly helped by the DLC. Focus on giving us racing series, real tracks that we can see on TV with consistent detail (i.e. not uber realistic tarmac and 2d trees) and DLC that will increase the playability of the game. My experience wit GT5 is such that GT6 won't be purchased as soon as it hits the shelves, rather I'll wait until all the gory details have come out before I buy it.

 

[Samus]

This is what I am fed up with. It's 2012 why are we still getting lost in translation? Either say the right thing or don't say anything at all. All it does it get people arguing over who was able to decipher his language. Basically we rely on just a handful of people on GTPlanet to translate what he is talking about.

What needs to be done, is for the History channel to air a episode of Brad Meltzer's Decoded featuring Kaz' talk.

I think he spoke to soon and said what the fans wanted to hear.

That quote comes from an IGN interview, i'm pretty sure they didn't just run what he said through google translate as people here do. If that's what they printed, that's what he said.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

Im sorry but Dirt 3 DLC is probably the biggest ripoff behind capcom stunt.Paying for new liveries like they are new cars is just ... I dont have a word for it.To say that Gt5 DLc was poorly targeted yet it sold probably by now millions proves thats not the case.
Theres thousands of cars GT can add there are millions of players with differing tastes, what ever they add it will never please everyone because of that.
Imo DLC doesnt make a game.2 or 3 DLCs depending on how much content is included is enough.Like GTAIv or MidnightClub.

 

[Squach240]

Imo DLC doesnt make a game.2 or 3 DLCs depending on how much content is included is enough.Like GTAIv or MidnightClub.

Planned DLC ruins a game IMO now, call me old school, but this game could very well do without it. DLC ruins the community.

GTAIV, Red Dead Redemption, and Midnight Club is actual game expanding DLC. Forza is the Call of Duty of the racing genre. ( Oooh, I said it! )

 

[interpolfan11]

Planned DLC ruins a game IMO now, call me old school, but this game could very well do without it. DLC ruins the community.

GTAIV, Red Dead Redemption, and Midnight Club is actual game expanding DLC. Forza is the Call of Duty of the racing genre. ( Oooh, I said it! )

Personally, I would absolutely love it if PD took my money constantly like Turn 10 does to its customers. Spending $20 on fifteen different Porsches sounds like money well spent to me.

Just my two cents...

 

[m0rris]

I'll accept that some of the structuring of the DLC on Dirt is poor but generally they'll give you some 70s cars if you want the Ford Escort MK2 pay a couple of £ and it's yours.

IMHO the GT5 DLC is poorly targeted, lets look at the DLC packs:

RC Pack:
Red Bull X2011 Prototype '11
Dodge Challenger SRT8 Touring Car
Honda CR-Z Touring Car
Mazda Roadster Touring Car
Mazda RX-7 Touring Car
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Touring Car
Nissan GT-R R35 Touring Car
Nissan SKYLINE GT-R R33 Touring Car
Nissan SKYLINE GT-R R32 Touring Car
Nissan SKYLINE GT-R R34 Touring Car
Subaru IMPREZA Touring Car
Toyota PRIUS Touring Car
Gran Turismo RACING KART Jr.
Gran Turismo RACING KART 100
Gran Turismo RACING KART 125

Pack 2:
Mini MINI COOPER S '11
Nissan GT-R Black edition '12
Volkswagen Golf VI R '10
Volkswagen Scirocco R '10

Pack 3:
Aston Martin V12 Vantage '10
Jaguar XJR-9 LM Race Car '88
Lamborghini Aventador LP 700-4 '11
MINI MINI COOPER S Countryman '11
Nissan Leaf G '11
Volkswagen Volkswagen 1200 '66

The first one does actually have a nicely rounded feel to it as they are all racing cars and give us more options for our garages meeting what we the consumers had been asking for alot. (In particularly the MX5). Did we really need the X2011, Prius TC and CR-Z TC? Probably not and IMHO the times could have been better spent getting us racing versions of super cars on the game.

Pack 2 goes for a random splatter gun approach that gives us another Nissan GTR just incase you missed the other 10,000,000, , two VWs and the Mini. All cars that people may have been interested in but they don't take the game forward.

Pack 3 gives us a truly eclectic mix. V12 Vantage and Aventador boost the ever popular supercar count. The XJR-9 finally gives us another premium race car. However, I'd argue that the Mini Countryman, the Leaf (especially) and the Beetle are nigh on useless.

The aim of DLC is to increase the use of the game, continuing the users participation in the franchise until, as if by magic, the next installment arrives. The best example I can think of is the Battlefield 3 franchise. They have mapped out their DLC clearly for 2 years, and each wave offers a new development that adds to the game. In the most recent case it's infantry based maps, then they'll move onto armoured warfare based maps and finally onto the mysterious "aftermath". Each level changes the users experience of the game and encourages them too come back for something new the next time.

If you were to apply that strategy then we'd get the initial game, doesn't it look lovely. Then 6 months down the line we get hit by a, say, DTM pack. Inside this pack we would have got a couple of DTM chassis, a wide variety of liveries and a couple more tracks. Then a year down the line you pop out another pack say a N'ring 24hr , a couple more chassis loads of new liveries. 18 months down the line you then announce a Le Mans pack, a load of chassis, updated track (you've already most of it done) and some suitable updates for potentially suitable cars. Then maybe a final pack that encompasses alot of what you have, say an Enduro pack using alot of preexisting models with a couple more thrown in and a new championship revolving around Spa/Nring/Monza/LeMans(/+Silverstone).

Then once the DLC has run it's course they should announce GT6 to hit the shelves roughly 2 years after GT5 went out. There you have it a clearly structured that with each wave should offer the users new championships to play with and would encourage people to continue playing online and on single player. These cars and tracks can then be re-used on GT6 to boost the starting potential of that game. What we have instead is an irregular stream of cars with little or no relevance to each other that don't particularly maintain participation with and interest in the franchise ready for the next game. I get the sense that what we are getting is not a planned stream of cars but literally what PD have just finished.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

So in your opinion the targeted crowd are people who dont mind paying for content that couldve been in the game from day 1 or added through updates instead of targeted to people who actually want "cars that was just finished".
To me your targeted crowd is getting ripped off majorly.If its planned down to a point then it seems to me that stuff is already done.
I think its targeted to the right crowd.Or the crowd that best suite PD DLC plan.
Like trk said he might have jst said that to please the fans so I can see why you think your targeted crowd is the right crowd.

 

[m0rris]

Not necessarily, certainly we've repeatedly heard from PD that they didn't have enough time to get the game out as they wanted as they ran out of time... especially the DTM features. If they said to us look, we've done all of this but we've got plans such as we wanted to give you DTM it'll come out in one year and will include some more chassis and tracks but it won't be free we'll give you the price IDC as part of a wider DLC strategy to be announced soon.

DLC has arrived in force and any new content, unless you've released an abortion of a first shot a la GT5, is going to be paid for. You can't justify to the accountants that you're giving away free content and you can't let the original game plod on as your competitors, i.e. Forza, will be able to run away with the show if they put any new releases and DLC in the intervening period between game release and replacement.

IMHO the gaming world changed a couple of years ago when DLC took off. Paying for extra content is the norm for many of the most popular franchises - just look at Battlefield and CoD, both games are in competition and have huge chunks of DLC which they use to compete. It doesn't particularly matter if you rip off your markt as long as they don't feel that they are being ripped off and ATM gamers are entirely happy to continue just looking at the market which sees maintenance/increase in costs combined with massive increase in DLC.

 

[m0rris]

I forgot to add that there's a lot of potentially appealing content that PD physically can't make in the initial release. For example, it would have been brilliant if PD had given us reasonably representative DLC packs of LeMans 2011/12 before the race started so that we could re-enact it ourselves.

With these races there are often many cars that remain for more than one season, albeit in modified form. For example from the 2010-11 seasons there was the 908, which faced in 2011 the new competitor in the form of the R18. Whilst the 908 isn't present this year, the R18 is and the Toyota is the new kid. If PD were to release this content we'd have up to date new DLC that also has the bonus of being totally new and not delayed from game content.

Plenty of detail differences but the potential for interesting DLC with interesting content remains.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

The thing is you cant speak for gamers.I know ALOT of gamers who hate monthly DLC so no gamers arent entirely happy because maintenence etc should be paid off with the initial funds from the game itself.Which is part of the reason games went from $50 to $60.Most of the DLC isnt simply extras its stuff took out of the game to make more money.It is the norm but its not a good one.People still buy it simply because they want what they think is extra content, not because they support DLC.If I remember correctly they pulled dtm out for gt6 im not sure.Im sure PD wanted to add a whole heap of stuff GT5 and GT4 but couldnt because of time constraint.Because of that , that does not mean the game was not finished but more so it will be in the next, which is why Kaz stated that they already started work on gt6.Which is why kaz said they started on gt5 right after gt4 .Put 2 and 2 together.Things that dont make it into the game should be in the next one.Not sold as extra content then end up being included in the next game for free.

 

[TokoTurismo]

^ To be honest that's how I feel towards Forza 4 when it comes to DLC, especially when it did day 1 DLC. I mean, I didn't buy any of its DLC simply because I know its just going to be in the next game. That's one thing I don't like about DLC, like you're buying DLC monthly just so you can keep playing that said game? While the rest of the content gets taken out, just to get more money? I always ask myself this. *What's the point on paying for DLC when its just going to appear in the next game?* I experience this in Forza 3.

I feel like I wasted my time and money on paying for content that should've been in the game all together in day 1. I can see and know how Turn 10 releases DLC every month, but I definenly know why and how they do it now. Simply because they release only cars which was held back to have players buying later on, but not tracks which is never released every month with the cars, because they have no tracks made in the first place. AHA! Who knows, they'll probably just start attempt that for all we know in theur next game. BUT EA however, I'm not going through details with them though.

I can't believe I'm getting/got mad just because there were no DLCs for GT5. I should be ashamed of myself and I'm apologies for what I said. I still believe what Kaz said about running out of time, it must of been the engine they've been working on for those years. I'll love to see how GT6 will turn out, with all that content being in it in day 1.

I still say they'll need a bigger workforce though. lol

Yay I wrote a big sentence finally. All came from my thoughts of course.

Edit: I kinda agree that DLC is somewhat ruining games imo.

 

[Samus]

Unless anyone has some proof that T10 release cars they held back from release on the disc those accusations need to stop.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, DLC in Forza and GT5 are a premium. If you want the cars now, you pay for them. If you prefer to wait for them to appear in the next game, then wait. Nobody is forcing you to download them.

 

[urmie]

You can speculate all you want and even convince yourself, but there is no proof that Turn 10 held back any content to sell later on. Really? All DLCs up to today were already finished a long time ago?

Porsche was ready, but that was held back because of licensing issues with EA, so can't fault them for that. Everything else was made after and they are able to do it, thanks to their out-sourced teams, which if PD would follow suit, can do the same.

Did PD hold back the Speed track on purpose? Clearly and coincidentally, it fit right on the menu perfectly. Hmmm.

Irregardless, content is content, DLC is to keep playing the current game until the next one comes out. What's the point to buy now when it will appear in the next iteration? To experience the content now with what you already purchased.

Whether it's worth it or not is up to you. I always said add-ons should be accompanied by events to make them worthwhile, extending the game's life.

We got Spa but no A-Spec events off of it, why not? With cars and tracks, they can implement an A-Spec: Season 2 or something.

I'm gonna assume the next "add-on" will be the Academy cars, if you golded the events.
Not sure if even that counts.

 

[TokoTurismo]

@SimonK Funny thing is, that's what I'm doing anyway. Saves my money. What was up with the day 1 DLC pack? My Aventador! D:

@urmie Everyone already knows the reason why Porsche was held back from Forza 4, cuz of EA. They were already made but had to sit back until the license was acquired. Oh, and by the way, that's what I believe.

Not being a fanboy or anything, just my thought. Don't have a cow...

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Communication is what matters.

It boggles my mind that there is an official site for Gran Turismo, but no feedback section, polls, or interaction between fans and developers (or their translators).

There are forums, but they're simply the PlayStation forums.

The possibilities we have today via the Internet and PD/SCEA/Sony uses almost zero of them.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

^ To be honest that's how I feel towards Forza 4 when it comes to DLC, especially when it did day 1 DLC. I mean, I didn't buy any of its DLC simply because I know its just going to be in the next game. That's one thing I don't like about DLC, like you're buying DLC monthly just so you can keep playing that said game? While the rest of the content gets taken out, just to get more money? I always ask myself this. *What's the point on paying for DLC when its just going to appear in the next game?* I experience this in Forza 3.

I feel like I wasted my time and money on paying for content that should've been in the game all together in day 1. I can see and know how Turn 10 releases DLC every month, but I definenly know why and how they do it now. Simply because they release only cars which was held back to have players buying later on, but not tracks which is never released every month with the cars, because they have no tracks made in the first place. AHA! Who knows, they'll probably just start attempt that for all we know in theur next game. BUT EA however, I'm not going through details with them though.

I can't believe I'm getting/got mad just because there were no DLCs for GT5. I should be ashamed of myself and I'm apologies for what I said. I still believe what Kaz said about running out of time, it must of been the engine they've been working on for those years. I'll love to see how GT6 will turn out, with all that content being in it in day 1.

I still say they'll need a bigger workforce though. lol

Yay I wrote a big sentence finally. All came from my thoughts of course.

Edit: I kinda agree that DLC is somewhat ruining games imo.

No its not like that with Forza 4 T10 has alot of in studio and out of studio 3d car modelers.The fact that they released a porsche pack so quickly shows that.They didnt make those during Forza 4 development because they couldnt at the time.
I was more talking about games like dirt 3 and bf3 or COD.Dirt 3 has cars IN the game day 1 thats dlc.I think thats even before the .1 update.BF3 and COD had map packs info and game modes info dlc leaked during its deveelopment time.
Tbh I think with playstation battle royale the same will happen thats why they arent announcing all of the characters,they dnt know which will be pulled out and sold as "extra content".Like morris said it is the norm so I wouldnt be suprised.

Post 900!

 

[Samus]

@SimonK Funny thing is, that's what I'm doing anyway. Saves my money. What was up with the day 1 DLC pack? My Aventador! D:

Well then what's the problem, why are you moaning about it? You don't want to buy it, so you don't. Some people do, and do. Where is the issue there?

Also you could have had the day 1 DLC for free by buying the LCE of the game. It's also very possible that the cars were not ready to go on the disc. Xbox Games have to be finished some 6 weeks before the release day, so it's not inconceivable they finished those cars after sending the game off for certification.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Unless anyone has some proof that T10 release cars they held back from release on the disc those accusations need to stop.

Indeed. Quite frankly, I'm getting tired of people presenting their conspiracy theories as facts.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, DLC in Forza and GT5 are a premium. If you want the cars now, you pay for them. If you prefer to wait for them to appear in the next game, then wait. Nobody is forcing you to download them.

Exactly. DLC will always look poor value for money when you consider it against the game's original purchase price, or the idea that it'll all be included in the next installment. But by that reasoning, how will you ever buy GT6? Since surely GT7 will have all it includes and more...

@SimonK Funny thing is, that's what I'm doing anyway. Saves my money. What was up with the day 1 DLC pack? My Aventador! D:

The Aventador wasn't part of the Day 1 DLC.

 

[TokoTurismo]

No its not like that with Forza 4 T10 has alot of in studio and out of studio 3d car modelers.The fact that they released a porsche pack so quickly shows that.They didnt make those during Forza 4 development because they couldnt at the time.
I was more talking about games like dirt 3 and bf3 or COD.Dirt 3 has cars IN the game day 1 thats dlc.I think thats even before the .1 update.BF3 and COD had map packs info and game modes info dlc leaked during its deveelopment time.
Tbh I think with playstation battle royale the same will happen thats why they arent announcing all of the characters,they dnt know which will be pulled out and sold as "extra content".Like morris said it is the norm so I wouldnt be suprised.

Oh. 0.0 My bad then. I never thought Dirt 3 would do something like that. Then again I didn't buy any of its DLC so I'm good.

Well then what's the problem, why are you moaning about it? You don't want to buy it, so you don't. Some people do, and do. Where is the issue there?

Also you could have had the day 1 DLC for free by buying the LCE of the game. It's also very possible that the cars were not ready to go on the disc. Xbox Games have to be finished some 6 weeks before the release day, so it's not inconceivable they finished those cars after sending the game off for certification.

..... I DID bought the LCE of Forza 4. THEN the LCE gets release as DLC, like are you serious? But whatever. Its just that I didn't know the Aventador will be released on November 2nd, so that's why I thought it was day 1 DLC, not the LCE DLC you guys are talking about. But Dmarc_Atl already told me Turn 10 has like lots of modelers.

And I wasn't moaning. Why so seriously? I'm not going into arguments again like that last one with the license plate issue with Forza Horizon. Freakin' guy was to serious for his own good.

Communication is what matters.

It boggles my mind that there is an official site for Gran Turismo, but no feedback section, polls, or interaction between fans and developers (or their translators).

There are forums, but they're simply the PlayStation forums.

The possibilities we have today via the Internet and PD/SCEA/Sony uses almost zero of them.

Agreed 100% Like its ridiculous...

 

[Zona]

I think PD need to stop putting GTR's as their dlc. We need some of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3r1kQU5p14

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

But by that reasoning, how will you ever buy GT6? Since surely GT7 will have all it includes and more...

Difference between gt and forza, bf cod etc is the annual release.Those games release bi-yearly.Doesnt make sense to buy dlc for 2 years when the next game is coming in 2 years and it makes even less for games that come every year.
I get that its there for people who want it but my point is too many games are taking advantage of that by taking core aspects out and selling it as extra content, the fall of SP shows that (finding games with great sp are in a dozen).You shouldnt have to buy dlc to get a complete game.That specifically doesnt apply to forza and gt5 but in general.

 

[SuperShouden]

I see the Forza Motorsport 4 more new and interesting car packages and do the comparison with the Gran Turismo 5 that runs behind both new cars ... Already they will release the ninth package!!. And don't forget the Porsche package!! I would like your opinion on this ....

Yup. GT5 is DEFINITELY NOT FM4. You are absolutely right about that.

 

[Samus]

Difference between gt and forza, bf cod etc is the annual release.Those games release bi-yearly.Doesnt make sense to buy dlc for 2 years when the next game is coming in 2 years and it makes even less for games that come every year.
I get that its there for people who want it but my point is too many games are taking advantage of that by taking core aspects out and selling it as extra content, the fall of SP shows that (finding games with great sp are in a dozen).You shouldnt have to buy dlc to get a complete game.That specifically doesnt apply to forza and gt5 but in general.

If you're happy with the content you are given though, whats the problem? Lets just say hypothetically T10 had 600 cars modelled for FM4 but chose to only put 500 on disc, and saved the extra 100 for DLC. Yes that is a crude, money orientated way of doing things but if you think 500cars with the rest of the game is good value, aren't you still a happy consumer?

 

[trk29]

aha I dont think the date has much to do with mis translations expecially with japanese .It just happens, I understand what your saying though.
"Either say the right thing or dont say anything at all"
Could be a reason PD dont communicate with their fans much because of translation issues.

I have two reasons for the date.

• They have ample ways of communicating with us but don't.
• Since 1997 translations have been lost.

That quote comes from an IGN interview, i'm pretty sure they didn't just run what he said through google translate as people here do. If that's what they printed, that's what he said.

I didn't quote anything. I was talking about in general. The most simple sentence easily turns out to be 20 pages of posts of people trying to understand or debate what he said back and forth.

 

[cuco33]

@SimonK Funny thing is, that's what I'm doing anyway. Saves my money. What was up with the day 1 DLC pack? My Aventador! D:

@urmie Everyone already knows the reason why Porsche was held back from Forza 4, cuz of EA. They were already made but had to sit back until the license was acquired. Oh, and by the way, that's what I believe.

Not being a fanboy or anything, just my thought. Don't have a cow...

The Aventador wasn't "day1 dlc". It might have been ready for the game, and it might not have been (ms games go through a long process to get certified) but we don't know. That is assumptions on your end. Even if the models in November speed pack were done already, if you want the dlc, get it. If you don't then don't.

Also the Porsche deal was due to ea, nothing they could do about it and why it is considered an expansion pack (and my favorite dlc of all racers to date!! I am a little biased, I love Porsche). From what I read, some of the Porsches weren't even modeled yet when fm4 launched while some where (and there was a rumor an av car was a flying lizard 911 gt3 rsr but that never happened). they have all been remodeled, new sounds, and working under new physics engine. As a fan of the genre and fan of gt, I would LOVE a Porsche dlc of some sort for gt5.

Still not as bad as PD's dlc for charging you for one time use paint chips, race suits and helmets, or race mod tc that should have been free in the game already (c'mon now... 1000+ cars on disk, only 19 are race mod and the dlc was dubbed 'tc' ? Lol!!) or charging for a glorified demo aka prologue...

Yes i am beyond anti prologue. And no.. You're not a fb lol

If you don't want dlc then don't buy it and don't complain about it. I get all the cod nd bf games but I don't buy the dlc for them since I don't see the value for them. Racing dlc as in cars and tracks I value so I buy

 

[m0rris]

Still not as bad as PD's dlc for charging you for one time use paint chips, race suits and helmets, or race mod tc that should have been free in the game already (c'mon now... 1000+ cars on disk, only 19 are race mod and the dlc was dubbed 'tc' ? Lol!!) or charging for a glorified demo aka prologue...

If you don't want dlc then don't buy it and don't complain about it. I get all the cod nd bf games but I don't buy the dlc for them since I don't see the value for them. Racing dlc as in cars and tracks I value so I buy

+1 on both these points. Firstly the first wave of DLC was appreciated because it gave us more racing cars and Spa, however in terms of effort involved it must have been minimal. Most premium cars car be modded with big wings, bodykits, diffusers etc, what the TCs were was these with racing interiors and numbers on the side.... hardly pushing the boundaries of DLC. The paint chip situation is such a mess it's ridiculous.

Secondly as long as you can still play the game well than surely there's no real problem with DLC. If they had made the X2010 DLC and consequently those with it dominated the online it would ruin the game but were they to complement the 908 with an R18 allowing players to have battles around DLSarthe similar to the 2011 race then surely that's basically just a bonus?

 

[TokoTurismo]

@cuco33

I agree with you on the paint chips and race suits DLC, AND of course the TC cars. Really why didn't that release with the update? But its to late because it already sold well so HA! Plus for the last time, I chose NOT to buy the DLC for crying out loud! Period...

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

If you're happy with the content you are given though, whats the problem? Lets just say hypothetically T10 had 600 cars modelled for FM4 but chose to only put 500 on disc, and saved the extra 100 for DLC. Yes that is a crude, money orientated way of doing things but if you think 500cars with the rest of the game is good value, aren't you still a happy consumer?

Rather the content is sufficient enough isnt the point because it doesnt justify pulling content out and selling it as extra content. Maybe its just my opinion but I figured everybody would feel like that but I guess not.

I have two reasons for the date.

• They have ample ways of communicating with us but don't.
• Since 1997 translations have been lost.

You watch ESPN? Have you seen that whole thing about Ozzie Guillen and how he got in so much ... stuff because a comment in his interview got mis-translated by ESPN ?
Mis-translations happen no matter how many ways of communication we have .Espn does it CNN does .... 💡 ign .. probably does it
.

 

[Samus]

Rather the content is sufficient enough isnt the point because it doesnt justify pulling content out and selling it as extra content. Maybe its just my opinion but I figured everybody would feel like that but I guess not.
.

Ever bought an Apple product? They purposefully leave tech off a model so they can add it on the next one.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

Yea they also give you money off if you bring in the older one.Atleast with the Ipad.Some AT&T locations give you 100% off iphones if you bring in the previous model.My friend figured this out but you cant do it if its Jailbroke.