Single player career : GT7 vs GT4

[CBH]

Which if not held back due to bugs is simply bizarre tbh. If they thought it would somehow retain players for longer... drip feeding rather than laying most of it on a plate from day 1, it goes to show how out of touch/clueless PD are. I know they have their faults, but even if they felt that was the best approach, surely people at Sony would have some in put in it.

Its like going to a restaurant and ordering a main meal and potatoes being wheeled at first, then 10 mins later the vegetables, another 10 mins later the chicken. Rather than main course 1st, then have choice of dessert after if you want. One way is acceptable way of dividing courses, the other isn;t.

Drip feeding cars from previous games over time is a very bad idea from PD they should have had a GT6 type dealership, then all cars from previous numbered games should have been in there from day 1 to buy. You talk about bugs in GT7 but I call it GT Sport 2, really they should have sorted out these issues 6 months before release day.

Releasing GT7 and it is called GT Sport 2 with bugs & glitches, tells me that this game was not and never tested properly. So why release a game to the pubic and PD apologizes and say we will fix these issues with further updates, which to me is a pathetic company

PD is kind of stupid the way they deigned GT7 but it's really called a GT Sport 2 game, and they should have done a lot better job, like following a traditional GT numbered game.

 

[Samus]

I’ve played around 45-50hrs of GT7 so far. Halfway through the Cafe, a couple of Missions completed. A handful of Circuit Experiences completed

So what exactly have you been doing?

 

[Nathan88]

So what exactly have you been doing?

GT7 is a huge AAA driving simulation with a near infinite amount of car/track/weather combinations. A blank canvas to build, tune, paint and test cars from throughout the last century of motoring. That’s before moving onto improving my driving skills, challenging friends times (which can take hours), trying different car builds. Which will all be benchmarked on track.

Pretty much exactly what I’d expect any car enthusiast to do. I have no interest going back to such a technically limited & dated title as GT4. For me sims are all about accuracy and replicating real world motoring. There’s a reason old sims are never remastered. They don’t stand upto the test of time.

 

[sh33p]

Which career in GT7 are you talking about? I'm playing it every day since release and I've never found or seen it... 😅

Agreed.
There's an odd drawn out tutorial under the guise of "cafe menu" that you would expect a career mode to start afterwards....

But the game just ends at this point

 

[CBH]

GT7 is a huge AAA driving simulation with a near infinite amount of car/track/weather combinations. A blank canvas to build, tune, paint and test cars from throughout the last century of motoring. That’s before moving onto improving my driving skills, challenging friends times (which can take hours), trying different car builds. Which will all be benchmarked on track.

Pretty much exactly what I’d expect any car enthusiast to do. I have no interest going back to such a technically limited & dated title as GT4. For me sims are all about accuracy and replicating real world motoring. There’s a reason old sims are never remastered. They don’t stand upto the test of time.

I have been a car enthusiast for well over 50 years, anyway all the Gran Turismo numbered games are good that I have played, until a game called GT7 which is not a true numbered game. It is missing a lot of good thing from a numbered game. You say it is accuracy and replicating real world motoring well no it is not, because some things in the game are not quite to the real world standards.
Let's take for example the Performance Points in the game, Performance Points should not effect the Suspension, LSD, Transmission settings and the tires as well. PD should never have done this because it's not real world system, and they want to call it The Real Driving Simulator then they should scrap the idea, of PP effecting the Suspension settings side of things.

 

[MonoTonouS]

People who try to define sandbox games as career mode are wrong as a mater of fact .
A career mode is structured , a sand box game is not. There is no granturismo career mode. Just a mode where you can buy and build cars . The fact you can make your own race makes it infinitley more playable than any granturismo.

 

[Samus]

People who try to define sandbox games as career mode are wrong as a mater of fact .
A career mode is structured , a sand box game is not. There is no granturismo career mode. Just a mode where you can buy and build cars . The fact you can make your own race makes it infinitley more playable than any granturismo.

Gran Turismo "GT Mode" is not a sandbox. It has defined goals, it has barriers, it has mostly linear progression. You can't just start a GT game and dive right into the GT World Championship. You can play events in your own order, but there is still a set progression laid out.

Making your own races does not replace this experience. Can you make a championship series in custom race? Can you set it to give you a reward car at the end of it? No. You can't even save your custom events, you have to make just one from scratch every single time.

 

[JDMKING13]

Gran Turismo "GT Mode" is not a sandbox. It has defined goals, it has barriers, it has mostly linear progression. You can't just start a GT game and dive right into the GT World Championship. You can play events in your own order, but there is still a set progression laid out.

Making your own races does not replace this experience. Can you make a championship series in custom race? Can you set it to give you a reward car at the end of it? No. You can't even save your custom events, you have to make just one from scratch every single time.

You have GT7? I figured you would not get it, or maybe waited til it got cheaper in price. I agree with the custom races they could of really took it to another level. I do use it but it’s pretty annoying setting it up every time.

 

[MonoTonouS]

Gran Turismo "GT Mode" is not a sandbox. It has defined goals, it has barriers, it has mostly linear progression. You can't just start a GT game and dive right into the GT World Championship. You can play events in your own order, but there is still a set progression laid out.

Making your own races does not replace this experience. Can you make a championship series in custom race? Can you set it to give you a reward car at the end of it? No. You can't even save your custom events, you have to make just one from scratch every single time.

You are so wrong it's not even funny. Grand theft auto is a sandbox game, having events unlock in an order does not nullify the fact it is a sandbox game, Minecraft is a sandbox game even though you have to unlock items by crafting them and there is a clear linear progression as to how you achieve goals.

If you go to Wikipedia, hit control + F, and type in " career" you won't find it on any of the games except In the Granturismo 6 and GT sports pages describing Ayrton Senna's carrear and A reviewer talking about Forza 7 career mode for Forza motorsport 7. So no one ever uses the word to describe GranTurismo on Wikipedia or on GTwiki. Not even GT7 has that word on its page. ( it does on the GTwiki describing cafe mode) How can a series with a career mode have such an important feature omitted from its wiki entry for ALL of its installments, thats like having zombies omitted from call of duty, or arcade mode omitted from Granturismo 1-7.

People use words all the time in an improper manner daily. My field of work revolves around people using words incorrectly. Just because YOU think these games have a career mode, doesn't mean they do.

Now Race driver grid has a career mode where you build a team and manage sponsors and race your way up to faster car's, this game doesn't seem to put me in faster cars with each step of the way, I went from mustang to Ferraris to GTR's and the final races I unlocked was WRC., and then I did a few hundred custom races. Oh, and the highest level missions put me in a kie car after that.. GT world is a sandbox where i can build a 500 hp ******* and race it in the pp 800 races, it is not a natural progression of motorsports or reflective of any motorsports career.

 

[Silver Arrows]

There’s a reason old sims are never remastered. They don’t stand upto the test of time.

These three, among many others apparently don't stand up to the test of time when it comes to sim worthiness - even though the first title was widely regarded as the best rally sim ever made and only recently was debateably dethroned (and is still very actively supported by the community) and the third one is not only still supported by the community, but also makes up the bones of the most popular eSports sim racing platform around.

GT fans sure have horse blinder memories and believe that everything revolves around consoles and the GT franchise, don't they?

 

[Dave A]

You are so wrong it's not even funny. Grand theft auto is a sandbox game, having events unlock in an order does not nullify the fact it is a sandbox game, Minecraft is a sandbox game even though you have to unlock items by crafting them and there is a clear linear progression as to how you achieve goals.

If you go to Wikipedia, hit control + F, and type in " career" you won't find it on any of the games except In the Granturismo 6 and GT sports pages describing Ayrton Senna's carrear and A reviewer talking about Forza 7 career mode for Forza motorsport 7. So no one ever uses the word to describe GranTurismo on Wikipedia or on GTwiki. Not even GT7 has that word on its page. ( it does on the GTwiki describing cafe mode) How can a series with a career mode have such an important feature omitted from its wiki entry for ALL of its installments, thats like having zombies omitted from call of duty, or arcade mode omitted from Granturismo 1-7.

People use words all the time in an improper manner daily. My field of work revolves around people using words incorrectly. Just because YOU think these games have a career mode, doesn't mean they do.

Now Race driver grid has a career mode where you build a team and manage sponsors and race your way up to faster car's, this game doesn't seem to put me in faster cars with each step of the way, I went from mustang to Ferraris to GTR's and the final races I unlocked was WRC., and then I did a few hundred custom races. Oh, and the highest level missions put me in a kie car after that.. GT world is a sandbox where i can build a 500 hp ******* and race it in the pp 800 races, it is not a natural progression of motorsports or reflective of any motorsports career.

I would say that you are both correct regarding some GT games and incorrect regarding others. IMO GT7 is not a sandbox game, but you could certainly make an argument for some other GT games, like GT, GT2 and GT3 for example, you start those games up, you can do a license, buy a car, tune the car if you have Cr left, enter your choice of race up to your license level (though you can complete all licenses first if you choose).

In GT7 the objectives are pretty much set for you up until you complete the Cafe. Whilst you can deviate from that to a degree, what you can do is heavilly dictated by what Menu you are at. Sure, that's like the map opening up as you progress in GTA San Andreas, but I also think non-sandbox games can have a sandbox mode or have sandbox elements.

I think a lot really depends on how strict or loose you want to be with the definition of what a sandbox game is when it comes to calling a game a sandbox game or not, so you will get differences of opinion as there is no definitive list, so it's perfectly acceptable for one person to feel GT7 has enough sandbox elements to call it a sandbox game and for another person to say it isn't.

With that said, I don't think if GT7 is sandbox or not really impacts if GT7 has a good career mode or not and if it has enough choice or not as that's a seperate

 

[Pizzicato1985]

As everyone else has said, save your money...

If you like racing online, making liveries, or doing a lot of time trials testing cars against other cars, GT7 is great. If you're looking for a single-player, offline career mode it's not worth the price of admission.

 

[shenfrey]

Yeah, I'd also say to just wait and see. GT Sport's single player content became huge after numerous updates.

Here's hoping they sort out the World Circuits UI as well, 'cause right now, it's a pain in the 🤬.

Problem is though, it isn’t fair on users to wait to be drip fed content so that the single player is at least on par with its previous title. It should have been that way from the start in my opinion.

 

[Lux Klonoa]

Problem is though, it isn’t fair on users to wait to be drip fed content so that the single player is at least on par with its previous title. It should have been that way from the start in my opinion.

I know, but it's the unfortunate reality with the gaming industry these days with games switching to being live service/free DLC dripfeed. =/

Honestly, I'd prefer this for GT7 rather than the entire game suffering yet another delay and feeding everyone's notion of PD being delay freaks. But as always, ymmv.

 

[Dave A]

I know, but it's the unfortunate reality with the gaming industry these days with games switching to being live service/free DLC dripfeed. =/

Honestly, I'd prefer this for GT7 rather than the entire game suffering yet another delay and feeding everyone's notion of PD being delay freaks. But as always, ymmv.

I'm the opposite, I'd have happily waited longer for a more complete package at launch. I'm sure the games reviews from users would have been higher in that instance as well.

Though both of us are making an assumption here that a delay would have led to a complete/notably more complete package, which is still not necessarily the case.

 

[Samus]

I know, but it's the unfortunate reality with the gaming industry these days with games switching to being live service/free DLC dripfeed. =/

Honestly, I'd prefer this for GT7 rather than the entire game suffering yet another delay and feeding everyone's notion of PD being delay freaks. But as always, ymmv.

But again, we already know they have more career events and menu books sat on the servers, ready to go since weeks before release.

It didn't need a delay to have more content, it just needed PD to give us everything they had at launch and then add even more to that. Instead they had X ready to go at launch, gave us X-6 and are now going to slowly get us up to X over who knows how many months.

 

[Lux Klonoa]

Though both of us are making an assumption here that a delay would have led to a complete/notably more complete package, which is still not necessarily the case.

-looks at Cyberpunk2077-

Hm, true.

 

[MonoTonouS]

I would say that you are both correct regarding some GT games and incorrect regarding others. IMO GT7 is not a sandbox game, but you could certainly make an argument for some other GT games, like GT, GT2 and GT3 for example, you start those games up, you can do a license, buy a car, tune the car if you have Cr left, enter your choice of race up to your license level (though you can complete all licenses first if you choose).

In GT7 the objectives are pretty much set for you up until you complete the Cafe. Whilst you can deviate from that to a degree, what you can do is heavilly dictated by what Menu you are at. Sure, that's like the map opening up as you progress in GTA San Andreas, but I also think non-sandbox games can have a sandbox mode or have sandbox elements.

I think a lot really depends on how strict or loose you want to be with the definition of what a sandbox game is when it comes to calling a game a sandbox game or not, so you will get differences of opinion as there is no definitive list, so it's perfectly acceptable for one person to feel GT7 has enough sandbox elements to call it a sandbox game and for another person to say it isn't.

With that said, I don't think if GT7 is sandbox or not really impacts if GT7 has a good career mode or not and if it has enough choice or not as that's a seperate

Cafe mode is not a career though, it serves more as an automotive history mode.
Progression in this game is tied to three things

Cafe mode ( hard progression blocker)
Collector level
License test ( hard progression blocker)

The cafe will eventually ask you to complete a license test, so the license test can be seen as an equal progression blocker to the Cafe mode.

I did all the license test first and did a few arcade races to get a feel for the physics even before i did the cafe mode.

It seems polyphony is intending the last two licenses and the collector level to be the real progression system as the game grows.

On Reddit people are keeping track of how long it takes to beat all events etc. And it is all in the hundred hours mark and their order of progression is different. We were having a good roast of people saying the game had no content only to find out most had not touched the mission races or done the non cafe races ( many of which are really late-game content as you won't have good enough car's or credits to beat) .

It is also important to note many of us have cheesed the game by looking up how to beat races and what car's are good, this is contrary to organic progression where you figure it out by trial and error . No one told me how to beat that chili pepper Tsukuba race, I just built balls to the wall open with nitrous and won by a literal hair. I had fun after having lost the trace like 6 times, what's not fun is going on GTP and looking up what car someone used and cloning the tune.

 

[Dave A]

Cafe mode is not a career though, it serves more as an automotive history mode.
Progression in this game is tied to three things

Cafe mode ( hard progression blocker)
Collector level
License test ( hard progression blocker)

The cafe will eventually ask you to complete a license test, so the license test can be seen as an equal progression blocker to the Cafe mode.

I did all the license test first and did a few arcade races to get a feel for the physics even before i did the cafe mode.

It seems polyphony is intending the last two licenses and the collector level to be the real progression system as the game grows.

On Reddit people are keeping track of how long it takes to beat all events etc. And it is all in the hundred hours mark and their order of progression is different. We were having a good roast of people saying the game had no content only to find out most had not touched the mission races or done the non cafe races ( many of which are really late-game content as you won't have good enough car's or credits to beat) .

It is also important to note many of us have cheesed the game by looking up how to beat races and what car's are good, this is contrary to organic progression where you figure it out by trial and error . No one told me how to beat that chili pepper Tsukuba race, I just built balls to the wall open with nitrous and won by a literal hair. I had fun after having lost the trace like 6 times, what's not fun is going on GTP and looking up what car someone used and cloning the tune.

You're conflating an impression of what a career mode should be with what what it actually is in GT7. It was even explained prior to the games release that you have completed the game when you complete the Cafe menu's. Completing these menu's drives everything else, which events show up, what locations on the world map you can access, if you can buy a new car or legendary car, which circuits open up for you to race on. So whilst, yes it definitely serves as an automotive history lesson, it is also most certainly a huge and vital part of GT7's career mode.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Cafe mode is not a career though, it serves more as an automotive history mode.

Yes it is. As Dave already noted, Kaz himself believed that the end of the campaign was watching the credits video that came from completing the final menu book. If that isn't a campaign, what is?

When even the creator of the series is fundamentally disagreeing with your point, what the hell are you trying to defend the actions for? There is no doubt there isn't any sort of significant campaign in this game compared to older titles, and specifically GT4 since that's apparently the apex of the series that Kaz believes needs to be re-iterated upon again and again.

 

[shenfrey]

Yes it is. As Dave already noted, Kaz himself believed that the end of the campaign was watching the credits video that came from completing the final menu book. If that isn't a campaign, what is?

When even the creator of the series is fundamentally disagreeing with your point, what the hell are you trying to defend the actions for? There is no doubt there isn't any sort of significant campaign in this game compared to older titles, and specifically GT4 since that's apparently the apex of the series that Kaz believes needs to be re-iterated upon again and again.

Good point. Whack an end credits off the back of any mode and you have your campaign.

 

[MeechShrykull]

You are so wrong it's not even funny. Grand theft auto is a sandbox game, having events unlock in an order does not nullify the fact it is a sandbox game, Minecraft is a sandbox game even though you have to unlock items by crafting them and there is a clear linear progression as to how you achieve goals.

If you go to Wikipedia, hit control + F, and type in " career" you won't find it on any of the games except In the Granturismo 6 and GT sports pages describing Ayrton Senna's carrear and A reviewer talking about Forza 7 career mode for Forza motorsport 7. So no one ever uses the word to describe GranTurismo on Wikipedia or on GTwiki. Not even GT7 has that word on its page. ( it does on the GTwiki describing cafe mode) How can a series with a career mode have such an important feature omitted from its wiki entry for ALL of its installments, thats like having zombies omitted from call of duty, or arcade mode omitted from Granturismo 1-7.

People use words all the time in an improper manner daily. My field of work revolves around people using words incorrectly. Just because YOU think these games have a career mode, doesn't mean they do.

Now Race driver grid has a career mode where you build a team and manage sponsors and race your way up to faster car's, this game doesn't seem to put me in faster cars with each step of the way, I went from mustang to Ferraris to GTR's and the final races I unlocked was WRC., and then I did a few hundred custom races. Oh, and the highest level missions put me in a kie car after that.. GT world is a sandbox where i can build a 500 hp ******* and race it in the pp 800 races, it is not a natural progression of motorsports or reflective of any motorsports career.

thats a lot of paragraphs to say "im going to be pedantic over a word to draw attention away from being wrong"

 

[SestoScudo]

GT7 is a huge AAA driving simulation with a near infinite amount of car/track/weather combinations. A blank canvas to build, tune, paint and test cars from throughout the last century of motoring. That’s before moving onto improving my driving skills, challenging friends times (which can take hours), trying different car builds. Which will all be benchmarked on track.

Pretty much exactly what I’d expect any car enthusiast to do. I have no interest going back to such a technically limited & dated title as GT4. For me sims are all about accuracy and replicating real world motoring. There’s a reason old sims are never remastered. They don’t stand upto the test of time.

LOL GTR2 came out in 2005. Guess what even today the game has lots of mods and improvements still going strong.

Richard Burns Rally set the bar hence why its considered one of the best rally sims of all time.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

I have been a car enthusiast for well over 50 years, anyway all the Gran Turismo numbered games are good that I have played, until a game called GT7 which is not a true numbered game. It is missing a lot of good thing from a numbered game. You say it is accuracy and replicating real world motoring well no it is not, because some things in the game are not quite to the real world standards.
Let's take for example the Performance Points in the game, Performance Points should not effect the Suspension, LSD, Transmission settings and the tires as well. PD should never have done this because it's not real world system, and they want to call it The Real Driving Simulator then they should scrap the idea, of PP effecting the Suspension settings side of things.

Oh yes, they absolutely should. It's possible to unlock seconds in a car's lap time with a good tune. Maybe downforce shouldn't, because it depends on the track.

Also I'm sorry to break it to you but physics accuracy absolutely matters today and is why even main rival of Gran Turismo (the much less popular Forza Motorsport) is set to move to a more realistic physics engine. This is not the early 2000s anymore, GT4's inner workings don't cut it anymore. I'd even say this is the main reason why Codemasters keeps failing to resurrect GRID: a track racer with generic, arcadish gameplay, good for 2008, not for today. It was also the reason why NFS Shift failed, and that one came out in 2009!

In fact, if you put every GT game ever made prior to Sport against the Forza Horizon of today, it would lose, because Forza Horizon has a decently realistic physics engine in an open world, arcade racing package that's more appealing to the casual player than GT4's event-based track racing. Forza Horizon also has way better sounds than those games, more cars that matter and is generally a much easier game to play.

When the franchise has an e-sports championship which prioritizes steering wheels, the mark of a sim, claiming the nuances in each car's behavior don't matter shows a disconnect from the market's current way of thinking. GT Sport was a shift in the franchise's priorities and GT7 is an attempt to bring what was good about Sport to a larger public while retaining the good bits from the GTs of old. In doing so, it's functionally a better game than everything that came before.

LOL GTR2 came out in 2005. Guess what even today the game has lots of mods and improvements still going strong.

Richard Burns Rally set the bar hence why its considered one of the best rally sims of all time.

GTR2 is dead. Been there, done that.

The only people who play are a fringe public who refuse to move to newer sims and the only content still being released is based on stolen 3D models from other games. That's why if you even want to get into GTR2 modding you have to dig obscure forums which approve membership on a case by case basis.

In fact, it was like that 10 years ago.

 

[RacingFan1]

For those that have played both GT4 and GT7 extensively how do you think GT7 career mode compares to GT4 career mode in terms of overall depth and challenge? I am considering purchasing a PS5 and GT7 at some point and would you to hear any thoughts you may have on the above.

GT4 has a far better offline mode with a lot more events... However, for me GT7 is overall better because it has online mode. I've been a massive GT fan since the 1 and in this point I would not play a GT that doesnt have online

 

[Voodoovaj]

I am not one to tell people how to play, and I am 100% opposed to telling people that what they enjoy is wrong. So, If it makes you happy, well...you do you.

But, to me (and again, just my opinion) I will say that any support for the custom races or this single player as "infinite" seems like an absurdity. At it's most challenging, the custom races hand you a victory on a silver platter. This is entertainment?

And the sheer loneliness of it. It's like Gollam and his "precious" ring, hiding away where no one can touch it, or see it, or even know about it. No one sees what you do. There's no one to talk to. There's nothing but you, yourself, and your loneliness, scoring hollow victories over an immensely dumbed down AI, as evidenced by what it can do in the "chili pepper" races.

 

[RacingFan1]

GT fans sure have horse blinder memories and believe that everything revolves around consoles and the GT franchise, don't they?

That sounds quite hostile towards GT fans in general, not to say a bit childish and unnecessary

 

[Silver Arrows]

That sounds quite hostile towards GT fans in general, not to say a bit childish and unnecessary

Considering the fact that the quoted post said that 'old sims do not stand the test of time' (when I posted three very specific examples of those that did, in varying ways) it's absolutely true, and I don't care how 'childish' it seems.

Sim racing games existed long before it was a twinkle in Kaz's eye, and many of the fanbase sans the oldest. It existed long before GT became a thing, and it will exist when it isn't a thing. To say that that old sims 'don't stand up to the test of time' is absolutely moronic beyond belief, and basically tries to discount the older games which are still popular and well supported even years after release. Something GT has historically not done.

 

[RacingFan1]

Considering the fact that the quoted post said that 'old sims do not stand the test of time' (when I posted three very specific examples of those that did, in varying ways) it's absolutely true, and I don't care how 'childish' it seems.

Sim racing games existed long before it was a twinkle in Kaz's eye, and many of the fanbase sans the oldest. It existed long before GT became a thing, and it will exist when it isn't a thing. To say that that old sims 'don't stand up to the test of time' is absolutely moronic beyond belief, and basically tries to discount the older games which are still popular and well supported even years after release. Something GT has historically not done.

It's his opinion, you have yours, get off your high horse. Also its an opinion of a single individual not the entire GT fanbase.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

Considering the fact that the quoted post said that 'old sims do not stand the test of time' (when I posted three very specific examples of those that did, in varying ways) it's absolutely true, and I don't care how 'childish' it seems.

Sim racing games existed long before it was a twinkle in Kaz's eye, and many of the fanbase sans the oldest. It existed long before GT became a thing, and it will exist when it isn't a thing. To say that that old sims 'don't stand up to the test of time' is absolutely moronic beyond belief, and basically tries to discount the older games which are still popular and well supported even years after release. Something GT has historically not done.

Listen, old sims have many great things about them and I'm a huge fan of what modders did with GPL, even adding Targa Florio and basically remaking the whole game from scratch as you can see on GPLaps' channel, as well as the Power & Glory mod for GTR2, the work by BLT and other modders like Butch on GT Legends, the various rFactor mods (too many to list), and so on.

But that was then. Sim racing has moved on for the most part. These games have a lasting effect, but their communities are very small today. I've been playing racing games for decades and I've seen communities thrive and die. Websites, even. NoGripRacing died a few years ago. Everything withers and begins to lose ground to new things.

Pretty much every moddable sim was surpassed by Assetto Corsa, where you can do everything you can in them, and more. It's got a better engine and better modding features. Old sims still exist because of a few passionate individuals who keep playing. Is this bad? No! But you can't compare their relevance today with games like GT7, AC/ACC or F1.