SNAIL Parity Racing Series - 86 GT/FR-S/BR-Z Night

[esh]

I've posted a spreadsheet for the results. Congratulations to Nic. He did a very good job.

For me that was a complete bust. We had five races of six laps and I probably raced for two.

I would like some feedback. I'm not sure how successful this was, so if anyone has any ideas to make it better, please let me know.

I liked it. Barring any cluster eff's we were all generally close (5-7 secs) and in packs. It would be interesting to see if we stayed in the same cars and compared how people did at certain PP's to develop a more accurate handicap system for each car.

 

[pyxen]

i really enjoyed myself! It was nice to get the win at Rome Reverse, and chase dabney a bunch at Deep Forest That 'vette was a much nicer ride to drive than i thought it would be...I would love to do a one-make 450pp PCP night...don't know what car tho.

How many races did I miss at the end ?

 

[dabneyd]

how many races did i miss at the end ?

2.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I would love to do a one-make 450pp PCP night...don't know what car tho.

I was thinking of doing the 86 GT. Sound good?

 

[spooble]

I was thinking of doing the 86 GT. Sound good?

Sounds great! FC Suspension allowed or no? And which tires?

I'm not much of a tuner (which is why I love the "no tuning allowed" over in the S.N.A.I.L. league), but with this parity format it doesn't really matter. I can throw on a "standard" tune from the tuning forums and just hop in and race. While others with more time/skill can tune up the car to their liking. In the first race, they'll do well, I'll do poorly, then I've got an 8pp advantage to help make up for my sloppy tune.

 

[leadbedr]

Garris - you should check out the snail league.

 

[zer05ive]

Sup Garris,
During tonight's S.N.A.I.L. practice, someone brought up the subject of adding more members to our league, so leadbedr mentioned that he had suggested that you check us out. Diabolic then added that you were running this Tuesday night series so I came by to read up on it. From what I can tell, it seems like both of our leagues have a similar concept of "tweaking" things to ensure competitive racing.. You guys do it by adjusting PP, and we do it by adjusting which division our drivers compete in.

Anyways, I just figured I'd follow up on spooble's and leadbedr's shameless plugs of our league with an official invitation to join us. With so many snails racing with you this past Tuesday night, I'm sure you already know how cool the guys in our league are and I'm also sure you'd fit in well. I really do think you'd enjoy the tightly-packed racing that is produced over there. 👍

Something else I noticed during my read-through of this thread was that you didn't feel like you had enough participants at times. If you wanted to, you could host a series via the S.N.A.I.L. thread in order to boost the number of drivers racing in your series. For example, Diabolic has been hosting a series every Friday night. If you wanted to pick Tuesday night again, I can talk to Dirty to see if he'd be willing move his Tuesday night events to another night.

P.S. - I hope you don't mind me posting this invitation on your thread. I will remove this entire post asap if you have any objection to it at all.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Sounds great! FC Suspension allowed or no? And which tires?

I'm not much of a tuner (which is why I love the "no tuning allowed" over in the S.N.A.I.L. league), but with this parity format it doesn't really matter. I can throw on a "standard" tune from the tuning forums and just hop in and race. While others with more time/skill can tune up the car to their liking. In the first race, they'll do well, I'll do poorly, then I've got an 8pp advantage to help make up for my sloppy tune.

I'm hoping to get on tonight to see where the 86 is. I'm thinking of SS tires.

I used to try out tunes from the tuning forum, and I even tried to make my own tunes, but then I ran around a track on a car with the stock suspension and found I was faster than I was in the tuned one!

I'm sure there are some cars that are bad enough that they need a tuned suspension. I've just been avoiding those.

Sup Garris,
During tonight's S.N.A.I.L. practice, someone brought up the subject of adding more members to our league, so leadbedr mentioned that he had suggested that you check us out. Diabolic then added that you were running this Tuesday night series so I came by to read up on it. From what I can tell, it seems like both of our leagues have a similar concept of "tweaking" things to ensure competitive racing.. You guys do it by adjusting PP, and we do it by adjusting which division our drivers compete in.

Anyways, I just figured I'd follow up on spooble's and leadbedr's shameless plugs of our league with an official invitation to join us. With so many snails racing with you this past Tuesday night, I'm sure you already know how cool the guys in our league are and I'm also sure you'd fit in well. I really do think you'd enjoy the tightly-packed racing that is produced over there. 👍

Something else I noticed during my read-through of this thread was that you didn't feel like you had enough participants at times. If you wanted to, you could host a series via the S.N.A.I.L. thread in order to boost the number of drivers racing in your series. For example, Diabolic has been hosting a series every Friday night. If you wanted to pick Tuesday night again, I can talk to Dirty to see if he'd be willing move his Tuesday night events to another night.

P.S. - I hope you don't mind me posting this invitation on your thread. I will remove this entire post asap if you have any objection to it at all.

I have been hearing about and invited to the SNAIL racing for a while. I'm not keen on committing to anything on Sundays, but I'll try to make this weekend, to see what it is about.

The idea of helping run a division sounds exciting. I'll have to see what it is all about.

And no, I don't mind you posting here at all.

 

[pyxen]

I don't know where to go to find decent tunes...all the garages look the same to me

Are there any good 86 tunes ?

 

[chuyler1]

Most of the posted tunes are not online-safe. The drivers that race online rarely give up their tunes. I'll share any tune I have if someone asks, but they aren't that spectacular.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Okay, I've updated the first post with the car, tires, and PP range. I also put the tracks. I want to do six races, but over three familiar tracks. I just want to see how we do the second time through them.

Really, to test this out, I think we need to do six races on the same track, but I don't want to bore everyone.

 

[pyxen]

if they're good tracks, I don't think anyone would be bored...i think we've all done enough GVE-R and Rome-R tho...

It could be interesting to do GVE, GV full, and then GVE-R... rinse, repeat.

 

[Nicktune]

Car Selection: Toyota 86 GT '12
Initial Performance Point Level: 414 ???
Lower Performance Point Level: 406 ???

The 86 stock is 413pp....

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Car Selection: Toyota 86 GT '12
Initial Performance Point Level: 414 ???
Lower Performance Point Level: 406 ???

The 86 stock is 413pp....

Yes. I hope I wrote it all down correctly. Basically, bone stock with 97% limiting gets it to 405. You can drop it further with ballast, I just don't like using ballast as much.

I was thinking of setting lower to 414, initial to 422, and upper to 440. Which, we can still do if there are people that don't like to use any limiting at all. A car modestly limited down to a PP will always be faster than one built up to it.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I'm in my lounge, but I got paged for work, so I'll be AFK for a moment.

 

[esh]

I will be there...

 

[bender2011]

I think that went well last night. Yes? As always my Automatic is slower. Good drivers are fast. And car must stay on the track. Lol. I used Fixed sports suspension. Was probably better for me than an attempt at tuning.

 

[kcheeb]

I think that went well last night. Yes? As always my Automatic is slower. Good drivers are fast. And car must stay on the track. Lol. I used Fixed sports suspension. Was probably better for me than an attempt at tuning.

Me too, a mistake is a mistake, if you make one you're going to be behind

Some great battle with you miata, really enjoyed it.

Hope I didn't cause too much grief on the last lap of Fuji, I was sure I could stay inside you coming out of turn 2.

And battling with Nic was very cool!

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I've updated the spreadsheet.

I think next week we will go with a Z34 with just intake/exhaust modifications. No suspension/transmission tuning and no forced air changes. Just to see how it works. I'll look tonight at where the car falls PP-wise.

 

[chuyler1]

Best thing to do is uncheck the "tuning" option and force drivers to use engine reduction and ballast to reduce the pp on the car. If you stick with the tires that came with the car, it should handle pretty well.

I had fun at Fuji trying to battle Esh. He had a faster car but I could pull off a pass at the very end of the straight when the draft gave me enough boost. I couldn't hold him off though, and I had to resort to a bump block to win.

I tried hard to pass kcheeb at Tsukuba but I couldn't get by. I didn't spend much time tuning and was about 3/10ths off Nic's pace anyway.

Laguna Seca pisses me off. I really don't understand why the car can be coasting just fine around Rainey curve and then all of a sudden snap out of control...and if you hit the brakes or gas it spins even more. I had the lowest decel setting on the LSD and I tried adjusting camber (went as high as 2.5 in the rear), springs, and dampers. I just couldn't figure it out. The car was planted on the first few turns and I could mash the pedal down without oversteer exiting the turns...so why does it fly out of control on a long sweeping turn?

 

[watermelon punch]

Best thing to do is uncheck the "tuning" option and force drivers to use engine reduction and ballast to reduce the pp on the car.

Sorry to nose in here as a spectator & lurker.

But just want to make sure you're not talking about "tuning prohibited" ??
If so, you can adjust power limiter, but not add ballast. Fussing with ballast will reject a car out of Tuning: Prohibited.

 

[pyxen]

Lurk all you want man, but speak up if you have something to say (as you did! )

I enjoyed myself last night...I'm super proud of clawing back during the 2nd Fuji race...must have done something right with my suspension tuning after the previous race! I'm looking forward to the Z34 next week! I'll pick up the car.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

There were a couple moments last night that really do beg why do I even bother.

A few that come to mind:

The second race at Tsukuba. I have probably the most powerful car there, and I start on the first row. I go from first to fifth in the very first corner. Why? Because I don't want to even bump anyone.

Second race at Fuji, my "home" track. I think I was in the lead, if I remember correctly. Nic was all over my bumper. And I feel so guilty taking my braking zones. More than once in the evening I've noticed people behind me swerving when I brake. I'm sorry, I'm slow. But... I also don't think people brake as early at Fuji as they should. Fuji is a different track. Anyway, I let myself brake too late for a corner and take myself out of the race. I should just let people hit me.

Sorry to nose in here as a spectator & lurker.

Lurk and participate, please.

 

[kcheeb]

The second race at Tsukuba. I have probably the most powerful car there, and I start on the first row. I go from first to fifth in the very first corner. Why? Because I don't want to even bump anyone.

Second race at Fuji, my "home" track. I think I was in the lead, if I remember correctly. Nic was all over my bumper. And I feel so guilty taking my braking zones. More than once in the evening I've noticed people behind me swerving when I brake. I'm sorry, I'm slow. But... I also don't think people brake as early at Fuji as they should. Fuji is a different track. Anyway, I let myself brake too late for a corner and take myself out of the race. I should just let people hit me.

I hear you, it's tough to tell where everyone is and you don't want to ruin anyone's race. That said, it's the responsibility of the person behind to ensure their takeover maneuovers (sp?) can be executed cleanly. You're in front, it's your line.

Unless I know the driver in front of me really well, I'll cheat to the open side when behind them. Gives me an out if they brake before I expect them to. I've caused those moments myself, usually ends up me getting a punt boost

 

[watermelon punch]

Lurk and participate, please.

Oh, I'd participate rather than being a spectator, if I only could, as you well know. lol Just that someone else, ahem, is taking up my ps3 by participating in this himself. lol
(For anyone who doesn't know, Bender2011 is my spouse. ;o)

Something that did occur to me was that chuyler1 might be on the right track. With tightening the methods of tuning allowed.
Like find some medium between spec (no tuning) and full tuning (all fully adjustable parts).
(He tends to be astute about these matters, I've noticed.)

There were a couple moments last night that really do beg why do I even bother.

A few that come to mind:

The second race at Tsukuba. I have probably the most powerful car there, and I start on the first row. I go from first to fifth in the very first corner. Why? Because I don't want to even bump anyone.

Second race at Fuji, my "home" track. I think I was in the lead, if I remember correctly. Nic was all over my bumper. And I feel so guilty taking my braking zones. More than once in the evening I've noticed people behind me swerving when I brake. I'm sorry, I'm slow. But... I also don't think people brake as early at Fuji as they should. Fuji is a different track. Anyway, I let myself brake too late for a corner and take myself out of the race. I should just let people hit me.

👍 Sounds good to me.

I don't know what standard of rules you're using for these races, but the generally accepted etiquette is that the leading car has the right to the brake point of their choice... outside of rude brake-checking business, of course.

My thinking is... If people start punting the race director host at the corners, they're going to stop badgering into the corners & use a bit more caution in future.
Only a complete idiot or complete @$$ wouldn't adjust themselves to avoid punting the race host.

But unless you start driving as you're legitimately allowed to... people are not going to expect you to do so.
And believe me, whether they realize it consciously or not, they're taking advantage of it. Human nature.

That's one of the gifts & curses of racing with the same people a lot.
You get to know their habits, driving style, weaknesses, & strengths.
And they get to know yours.

(I apologize for the excessive use of smileys in this post. I think I went over the generally accepted quota in this thread. lol)


Oh, but at any rate, I admire this scheme. It seems to me a much more clever & less obvious way to make for more close exciting racing than some other handicap schemes could be.
(IE: don't give up before finding the sweet spot!)

 

[chuyler1]

Garris, I think you're spending too much time looking in the rear view mirror. But if you are still worried about it, just leave room on the outside for the other driver. If you are approaching turn 1 at Fuji and someone is close behind, move to the right one car length before you brake. If they miss your braking point, they have plenty of track on the outside to run wide without hitting you. Although it's a defensive line, you'll lose at best 1/10th from entering the turn from the far left.

Learn how to enter a turn with any braking point from any point on the track and you'll do better in pack racing. Listen to the engine rpm and tire squeal to know when you're at the limit.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I've updated the first post. I didn't realize at the time, but there is a premium Z33. Still, I went with the Z34.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Just reminder, this is tomorrow night.

I've updated the second post with little leaderboards.

 

[pyxen]

I might be on late..I'm doing some framing in my basement tonight, and don't know exactly when I'll be done.

Z34!

 

[spooble]

I think I can make it tonight. I have a Z34 setup for drift, but haven't practiced racing one. Sexy car, though. If I didn't have kids (read: need a back seat), it would be a toss up between this and an Elise for my daily driver.