So did Forza 6 bomb in sales?

[TonyJZX]

IMO I think Forza 5 feels a bit better than Forza 6 to me. Its been my impression since the demo.

However both are quite a bit above 4, not quite 'leagues' above but still a fair bit.

 

[ImaRobot]

Well graphically it was, and the laser scanned track surfaces were a good step forwards, but in terms of content (both cars/tracks and single player game functions) Forza 5 was a big step backwards from Forza 4. Understandable, given the time constraints, but saying that Forza 5 was a great evolution is sweeping the lack of content under the carpet. No need for that.

Except that the subtraction of cars and tracks doesn't take away from evolution that did happen.

 

[Myles Prower]

Looking at some of the first leaderboards in the career/rivals it seems there's no more than 35k entries in any of them worldwide. Does this mean Forza 6 flop hard? No info from MS either and hardly any discussions on the forums. Did Forza 6 simply come and go and nobody noticed? Could this mean the end of the franchise? Previous entries had decent sales overall but Forza 6 seems to have sold the worst so far. What do you guys think?

Haven't read the other posts so don't know if this has been said, they are making quite a few leader board resets to deal with some glitched car builds that's why you may not see that many people yet. (Last one was Wednesday or Thursday last week)

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I don't need to go on another rant. The lack of sales did it for me.

Sales figures, I guess you mean. Since, y'know, there aren't any out there yet. We can extrapolate from the NPD September Top 10, the list where nine out of ten are multi-platforms, and the remaining entry is the Mario juggernaut. We could look at this article about FM6 in Japan, although it's hardly representative of the world sales figures, considering XB1's penetration in that market.

Although I've still yet to find anything that ties a game's sales numbers to its quality. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction.

 

[RacerPaul]

IMO I think Forza 5 feels a bit better than Forza 6 to me. Its been my impression since the demo

Dead right. FM6 has been dumbed down imo. There's heaps more grip. I don't mind how FM6 plays, but I'd
just got a handle on driving FM5 reasonably well and then they go and change it!

 

[nocturnalgrey]

Sales figures, I guess you mean. Since, y'know, there aren't any out there yet. We can extrapolate from the NPD September Top 10, the list where nine out of ten are multi-platforms, and the remaining entry is the Mario juggernaut. We could look at this article about FM6 in Japan, although it's hardly representative of the world sales figures, considering XB1's penetration in that market.

Although I've still yet to find anything that ties a game's sales numbers to its quality. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction.

And I suppose this is when you (or someone else) prepares to go on a sales don't equal quality tirade.

I have yet to purchase a new racing game this generation (picked up Project Cars and Driveclub used, traded them in a month) and have passed on all three Forza titles on the XB1.

I have high hopes with Need For Speed, but I haven't paid it off yet as I wait for information and reviews.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

NPD numbers via creamsugar over at GAF. 195k in the US for September and that is including bundles. Lower than I expected for the first 3 weeks. For some perspective, FM2 did 217k in just the first week back in 2007, FM3 did 175k just first week back in 2009, that's not including bundles for either. I have no solid source on numbers for FM4 any more but I remember it was around 200k just first week, 302k or 320k first 3 weeks.

First 5 weeks in UK has FM6 somewhere between 60k-80k including bundles.

 

[UkHardcore23]

NPD numbers via creamsugar over at GAF. 195k in the US for September and that is including bundles. Lower than I expected for the first 3 weeks. For some perspective, FM2 did 217k in just the first week back in 2007, FM3 did 175k just first week back in 2009, that's not including bundles for either. I have no solid source on numbers for FM4 any more but I remember it was around 200k just first week, 302k or 320k first 3 weeks.

First 5 weeks in UK has FM6 somewhere between 60k-80k including bundles.

Forza Fatigue kicking in!

 

[mrPetros]

Dead right. FM6 has been dumbed down imo. There's heaps more grip. I don't mind how FM6 plays, but I'd
just got a handle on driving FM5 reasonably well and then they go and change it!

funny thing is that some people(self-proclaimed "simmers" haha) complain that forza 6 has no grip.
car to car collisions also are way more forgivable in forza 6, although still far from horizon2/pcars/etc level.

to be honest, if I was the guy browsing the server stats on how ground level players behave, chances are I would also search for a refinement so as to make things more ...approachable.

One stat I'd like to know about forza 5 is the total number of car crashes on online multi games. gotta be very impressive number

And I suppose this is when you (or someone else) prepares to go on a sales don't equal quality tirade.

I have yet to purchase a new racing game this generation (picked up Project Cars and Driveclub used, traded them in a month) and have passed on all three Forza titles on the XB1.

I have high hopes with Need For Speed, but I haven't paid it off yet as I wait for information and reviews.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

in my opinion skipping out on FM and FH (with the sour taste of DC and PC) and placing your bets on NFS is a rather thin bet for max enjoyment.
we played the NFS beta not long ago, and what I saw is that the fun in this game is in anything but the driving itself.

Forza Fatigue kicking in!

digital sales are accounted? also this edition that many forza players bought that unlocked 5-8 days prior to official release?

I think this game will be selling throughout the holidays. even for people that racing games are not their primary focus, it is good to have the assertion that, you know, it is there waiting for them.
in my experience word of mouth is very good, as its a pretty great game afterall.

 

[nocturnalgrey]

in my opinion skipping out on FM and FH (with the sour taste of DC and PC) and placing your bets on NFS is a rather thin bet for max enjoyment.
we played the NFS beta not long ago, and what I saw is that the fun in this game is in anything but the driving itself.

I haven't paid for NFS, but I do plan on purchasing the game. Of course that could all change in the coming weeks, and if NFS has some glaring issues, I will pass on that as well and explore other options.

I guess I am tired of racing games not meeting my expectations and as a result, I am on the critical sides of things.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

And I suppose this is when you (or someone else) prepares to go on a sales don't equal quality tirade.

No need to - it makes sense. If you really want to argue otherwise, then by all means, tell me about the amazing qualities of the Corolla, Justin Bieber, and Cameron's Titanic.

I have high hopes with Need For Speed, but I haven't paid it off yet as I wait for information and reviews.

Well, it's missing a large stable of cars, variable time of day, manual transmissions, in-depth tuning, just off the top of my head. For someone that keeps proclaiming he will only settle for a game that has all the features of the genre under one roof, you're sure grabbing at the short straw with NFS. And this is coming from someone that'll probably pick it up.

 

[Myles Prower]

EA wanted the new NFS game to capture what we liked about NFSU2, and they did it about as well as they have with the new Battlefront compared to the original, its crap and nothing like it.

 

[killerjimbag]

No need to - it makes sense. If you really want to argue otherwise, then by all means, tell me about the amazing qualities of the Corolla, Justin Bieber, and Cameron's Titanic.



Well, it's missing a large stable of cars, variable time of day, manual transmissions, in-depth tuning, just off the top of my head. For someone that keeps proclaiming he will only settle for a game that has all the features of the genre under one roof, you're sure grabbing at the short straw with NFS. And this is coming from someone that'll probably pick it up.

Well they have made 10 million Corollas in Canada,Justin Bieber is Canadian, OK never mind.

 

[nocturnalgrey]

No need to - it makes sense. If you really want to argue otherwise, then by all means, tell me about the amazing qualities of the Corolla, Justin Bieber, and Cameron's Titanic.

Well, it's missing a large stable of cars, variable time of day, manual transmissions, in-depth tuning, just off the top of my head. For someone that keeps proclaiming he will only settle for a game that has all the features of the genre under one roof, you're sure grabbing at the short straw with NFS. And this is coming from someone that'll probably pick it up.

You know what I love? I love how ones personal opinion on what is good and not seems to automatically mean it's good for everyone. I know people who love all the three of those, and while I don't, it doesn't mean that the aforementioned isn't "good". The same applies to games.

I have mentioned this before, but I will explain my stance once again. With games like Forza and Gran Turismo there are several things I expect. If my expectations aren't met, my money will no longer support developers who aren't building the game I want. Simple really.

With NFS, so far this new title is meeting my expectations, because I don't require FM/GT level of tuning, tracks, etc.. Two different game types, two different levels of expectancy. One is for track days while the other is for cheesy fun.

Hope this helps.👍

 

[ImaRobot]

All the while I'm sitting here wondering, what could NFS possibly offer that these games don't.

Horizon offers cheasy fun.

 

[mrPetros]

I haven't paid for NFS, but I do plan on purchasing the game. Of course that could all change in the coming weeks, and if NFS has some glaring issues, I will pass on that as well and explore other options.

I guess I am tired of racing games not meeting my expectations and as a result, I am on the critical sides of things.

its just a game, and the worst thing that can happen is that you get pissed at spending 60e, so not the end of the world anyway
grab a month of EA access and you can play the full NFS game prior to release for enough hours, and if you like it you can buy at 10% discount through same program.

that being said, I am pretty sure that absolutely everybody who has interest in cars and has horizon2 and has played nfs, will be able to tell you that horizon is so much more fun its not even comparable

I am getting nfs, but its for the b-movie videostory and to spend maybe 10 hours inside the garage trying out these bodykits.
But as for fun out of driving/handling, its minimal, in my opinion the game is really shallow in these aspects

 

[C_Raccoon23]

All the while I'm sitting here wondering, what could NFS possibly offer that these games don't.

Horizon offers cheasy fun.

Well, here are a few things I think NFS has over Horizon.

First, NFS's visual customization blows Forza's out of the water. In Horizon 2, I was shocked that the Skyline R32 and Integra Type R didn't have anything other than the generic Forza wing and splitter. I don't understand what's stopping Turn 10 from gradually adding more body kit options to cars every game or why they remove options.

Second is a different map environment. Horizon 2's map is great, but it's been a long time since I played an open world racing game that took place in a city, and that's what NFS has.

Third, NFS seems like it will have a more interesting career mode than Horizon 2. As much as I love Horizon, the career mode does get repetitive. Complete four races, drive to another part of the map to complete another four races, rinse and repeat. Granted, there are barnfinds and bucket lists to break the tedium, but those can only stretched out so much when the game has 168 of these four-race championships. NFS on the other hand has five different career paths to do and in addition to the usual race events, you also have drift events and police pursuits.

 

[Fat Tyre]

NFS doesn't have interior view, right?

That's a big con for me.

 

[ImaRobot]

Well, here are a few things I think NFS has over Horizon.

First, NFS's visual customization blows Forza's out of the water. In Horizon 2, I was shocked when the Skyline R32 and Integra Type R didn't have anything other than the generic Forza wing and splitter. I don't understand what's stopping Turn 10 from gradually adding more body kit options to cars every game or why they remove options.

Second is a different map environment. Horizon 2's map is great, but it's been a long time since I played an open world racing game that took place in a city, and that's what NFS has.

Third, NFS seems like it will have a more interesting career mode than Horizon 2. As much as I love Horizon, the career mode does get repetitive. Complete four races, drive to another part of the map to complete another four races, rinse and repeat. Granted, there are barnfinds and bucket lists to break the tedium, but those can only stretched out so much when the game has 168 of these four-race championships. NFS on the other hand has five different career paths to do and in addition to the usual race events, you also have drift events and police pursuits.

The only thing I can I see as a plus for this game is the customization, but that happens to be one of my favorite parts of any game. The open world map is irrelevant to me really. Lets face it, NFS campaigns have been nothing to drool over, they've been pretty bad and horribly cheesy to the point that I'm not bothered by the lack of story in Horizon.

The game has far to many restrictions in place that dumbs it down so much that it had me questioning if I want it or not.

Still, the reason for me saying that, directly after him, is because of the emphasis on things he was upset about with FM6. Dynamic time, being one big one he was shaming FM6 for not having since its a next gen game. Even going so far to mention the lack of damage in a game being minimal(even though the damage was turned off.) Both of which are lacking in NFS.

But to go on about how this game is lacking so much, and looking forward to NFS as being the game that has everything he wanted was just odd. Especially considering the things he is vocal about, is everything the game is missing. The type of games the two are is irrelevant at this point as it seems he's hunting more for a certain amount of features, rather than a certain type of game. I am going to buy NFS, but I have a feeling that I'd end up getting over it fairly fast, like usual.

 

[Joey D]

I don't understand what's stopping Turn 10 from gradually adding more body kit options to cars every game or why they remove options.

Chances are it has something to do with licensing.

 

[mrPetros]

I prefer their elaborate modding & tuning options to having a couple differenent (licenced or not) bodykits per vehicle.

And I think its about time constraints, not licenses. its not like forza motorsport (and horizon) has the number of cars need for speed has. one has dozens the other has hundreds.
and the options forza offers per car are miles ahead of 2-3 fat bodykits per car that nfs offers, that actually add absolutely nothing to car dynamics etc, which are absolutely minimal to begin with.


btw, about sales, someone counted the first career championship race in all available classes and the count is something like 870.000 entries.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

the options forza offers per car are miles ahead of 2-3 fat bodykits per car that nfs offers, that actually add absolutely nothing to car dynamics etc, which are absolutely minimal to begin with.

You can do more in NFS than just add a few body kits. You have the option to do that or change the bumpers, side skirts, spoiler, and hood individually. Furthermore, you can add spliters, diffusers, canards, change headlights and taillights, widen the fenders, change the exhaust tip, the trunk lid and mirrors. You can also change camber, rake, and track width. And this is small, but you can also put decals on your windows, something I wish Forza would implement already.

The only other current gen racing game that rivals NFS in terms of visual customization is The Crew.

 

[mrPetros]

You can do more in NFS than just add a few body kits. You have the option to do that or change the bumpers, side skirts, spoiler, and hood individually. Furthermore, you can add spliters, diffusers, canards, change headlights and taillights, widen the fenders, change the exhaust tip and the trunk lid. You can also change camber, rake, and track width.

The only other current gen racing game that rivals NFS in terms of visual customization is The Crew.

you can change individually (just like in all forzas), yes, but what I said is that all this is just for looks, as the driving/handling dynamics really get nothing out of these changes, and these characteristics are to the far limit of arcade handling dynamics to begin with.

also keep in mind that in order for nfs to have a few body kits for a few dozen cars, they skipped entirely creating the cockpits and its view.

then again, personally I value the livery and decal creator (and marketplace of creators) that forza offers for visual customization much more than a dozen preset bodykits.
so in my book forza remains the king of car customization, by far. both visually, but -more importantly- in substance too.

 

[Ialyrn]

And I think its about time constraints, not licenses.

It will be about licenses. Whether that be with the car manufactures, the body kit manufactures, or a combination of both. That is what racing games boil down to, how many licenses they can get for the cars, tracks, track side sponsors, wheel makers, so on and so forth. Look at Pcars for example, they had built Suzuka for the game, couldn't get licensing so had to remove it and replace it before release. Licensing is everything in a racing game the deals with real cars, and/or tracks/locations.

 

[mrPetros]

It will be about licenses. Whether that be with the car manufactures, the body kit manufactures, or a combination of both. That is what racing games boil down to, how many licenses they can get for the cars, tracks, track side sponsors, wheel makers, so on and so forth. Look at Pcars for example, they had built Suzuka for the game, couldn't get licensing so had to remove it and replace it before release. Licensing is everything in a racing game the deals with real cars, and/or tracks/locations.

agreements will have to be made, of course, but I really-really doubt that it is hard for microsoft to strike a deal with a pvc bodykit manufacturer. or twenty.

 

[Joey D]

agreements will have to be made, of course, but I really-really doubt that it is hard for microsoft to strike a deal with a pvc bodykit manufacturer. or twenty.

Who knows what actually goes into licensing. And it might be easy for them to get, but the cost might not be worth it to them.

 

[Ialyrn]

but I really-really doubt that it is hard for microsoft to strike a deal with a pvc bodykit manufacturer. or twenty.

But you are failing to take into account the car manufactures though, who may not want some after market body kit changing the look of their brand new car. Or even some of their classic ones. It is not just a case of the bodykit makers giving the ok.

 

[mrPetros]

But you are failing to take into account the car manufactures though, who may not want some after market body kit changing the look of their brand new car. Or even some of their classic ones. It is not just a case of the bodykit makers giving the ok.

since they do allow in real life, and they also allow in games like nfs, I dont see a real problem there.
in cases where a manu has a specific problem like you are describing, we have already seen how turn10 handles it with finesse. example since 360 forzas we had some bmw's sporting only official bmw//m aeros.

 

[Ialyrn]

since they do allow in real life

You also have not paid ex amount of £/$ for the car in real life. Once you buy the car in the real world, it is your car. The manufacturer can not stop you from modifying it how ever you like, and neither do they care; as they already have your money. In a video game that is a completely different story, as it is essentially a form of advertisement for them. This means that they will care about what can be done to the car, and even the type of game it will be used in. Ever wonder why the cars in GTA are only facsimiles of real cars, and not licensed version of the real thing? So when it comes to T10/PD/EA making a deal to use these cars in their games, there will be restrictions on what can be done with them. More often than not, it will only affect the more visual aspects. But most car makers are not going to want their cars visual appearance changed too much in a video game, especially if it is their most recent model. Some will be more lenient than others, some will be strict with certain models and lax with others in their lineup. But they have the last say on what T10 can do with their cars in the game, and T10 have to stick to what ever licensing deal they strike up.

 

[Joey D]

since they do allow in real life, and they also allow in games like nfs, I dont see a real problem there.

That's not how licensing works.