Soft-Body Crash Physics; Yes or No?

[ch3ng]

For Shift and Grid, car manufacturers allow the cars to get damaged as much as they do in-game because many people see them as arcade games which are not supposed to be realistic. For Gran Turismo, car manufacturers are a little more strict on damage because if the cars got damaged easily, people would think the car would probably be unsafe in real life, and therefore affecting the sales of that car.

For Forza Motorsport, some people see it as an arcade game, and others see it as a sim. That's how Microsoft/Turn 10 probably got away with damage in those series.

What?

1. I think the companies do not care about a sim or arcade racer. Marketing is the same
2. You just want to defend the worse damage model.
3. Forza is a simulation.
4. Turn10 can make those damage, because manufacture allow them to do it. Or do you have a statement from a manufacture which clearly say they don't allow it?
5. GT5 has worse sound. I don't think the manufacture like this, but they didn't care or couldn't do something against it. I think sound is more important if it comes to marketing.
6. I think it's interessting. I know some people in the internet or privat that think the same as you do. Just to defend PD.

They said in the past. GT1-4 that they don't offer a damage model, because manufscture don't allow it.
GT5 has a damage model and now they try to say manufacture don't allow a better damage model as GT5 has. What do you say in GT6-8? Msnufacture allow those great damage model?

Forza and GT are far away from realistic physics and if you want to argue that handling in a game can have a huge influence in sales than the manufacture make a mistake. PC Sims have more realistic physics.

 

[MSTER232]

What?

1. I think the companies do not care about a sim or arcade racer. Marketing is the same
2. You just want to defend the worse damage model.
3. Forza is a simulation.
4. Turn10 can make those damage, because manufacture allow them to do it. Or do you have a statement from a manufacture which clearly say they don't allow it?
5. GT5 has worse sound. I don't think the manufacture like this, but they didn't care or couldn't do something against it. I think sound is more important if it comes to marketing.

Forza and GT are far away from realistic physics and if you want to argue that handling in a game can have a huge influence in sales than the manufacture make a mistake. PC Sims have more realistic physics.

1. Different people have different opinions on things. And how would you know the marketing is the same; do you work for a car company?
2. I'm not trying to defend the bad damage model. It needs to change for the better. I was explaining why it's the way it is.
3. Just about.
4. You don't say?
5. GT5 doesn't sound very good compared to other games but at least it sounds better than the games in the 1980's. Also pretty sure sound is the least of the manufacturers' worries.

 

[ch3ng]

1. Different people have different opinions on things. And how would you know the marketing is the same; do you work for a car company?
2. I'm not trying to defend the bad damage model. It needs to change for the better. I was explaining why it's the way it is.
3. Just about.
4. You don't say?
5. GT5 doesn't sound very good compared to other games but at least it sounds better than the games in the 1980's. Also pretty sure sound is the least of the manufacturers' worries.

1. Do you work for a car company? I can only say what i see. I see the same car in GT with a worse damage model compared to the same car in other racing games with a better one.

2 . You tried to explain something we don't know.
2.1 I never saw a manufacture statement that clearly say they don't allow it.
2.2 I see the same car in other racing games with better damage model.

5. Do you work for a car company?

Conclusion in my opinion:
You search for an execuse for PD work.

 

[JBanton]

Ch3ng has deduced reasons for why Gran Turismo has a poor damge model, I think we should leave it at that.

As for soft-body physics as I stated with reasons in my last post I would love to see it interweaved into the game, and interweaved properly.

 

[MSTER232]

1. Do you work for a car company? I can only say what i see. I see the same car in GT with a worse damage model compared to the same car in other racing games with a better one.

2 . You tried to explain something we don't know.
2.1 I never saw a manufacture statement that clearly say they don't allow it.
2.2 I see the same car in other racing games with better damage model.

5. Do you work for a car company?

Conclusion in my opinion:
You search for an execuse for PD work.

None of us do. And what if the manufacturers gave more licensing rights for one game than the other for damage?

Conclusion in my opinion:
You make yourself look perfect .

 

[zr1chris]

Not sure the car manufacturers would allow that much damage.

 

[OHM_fusion]

There is a reason that certain cars in GT5 have a lot more damage than others. PD.

I know Shift, Grid, Forza and licensed Project cars cars which have a better damage model as the same car in GT.

How do you explain that? I think it is an execuse. I think the manufacture don't like it, but allow the developer to do it.

Um, so what are you trying to say? That other games have a better damage model? Well that's obvious, I even said that in my post you quoted. Then why do developers of those games you mentioned not use the soft-body physics as their damage model? Do you think they are lazy and incompetent too? I'm pretty sure we are never going to see a simulation game with licensed cars with a damage system like the soft-body physics, and I still believe car manufacturers are the reason for that. I'd love to be proven wrong though, and you can believe what you want, I will gladly admit that you were right when such a game comes out

 

[MSTER232]

Not sure the car manufacturers would allow that much damage.

Um, so what are you trying to say? That other games have a better damage model? Well that's obvious, I even said that in my post you quoted. Then why do developers of those games you mentioned not use the soft-body physics as their damage model? Do you think they are lazy and incompetent too? I'm pretty sure we are never going to see a simulation game with licensed cars with a damage system like the soft-body physics, and I still believe car manufacturers are the reason for that. I'd love to be proven wrong though, and you can believe what you want, I will gladly admit that you were right when such a game comes out

Thank you. As a reward you both get a free internet cookie each for your browsers to enjoy:

 

[ch3ng]

None of us do. And what if the manufacturers gave more licensing rights for one game than the other for damage?

Conclusion in my opinion:
You make yourself look perfect .

No i don't do it. I said i can only judge what i see.

Why should a few racing games including a completely new racing game Project cars get the license to damage the car and GT not?

Um, so what are you trying to say? That other games have a better damage model? Well that's obvious, I even said that in my post you quoted. Then why do developers of those games you mentioned not use the soft-body physics as their damage model? Do you think they are lazy and incompetent too? I'm pretty sure we are never going to see a simulation game with licensed cars with a damage system like the soft-body physics, and I still believe car manufacturers are the reason for that. I'd love to be proven wrong though, and you can believe what you want, I will gladly admit that you were right when such a game comes out

I talked about damage in general. And i think we can get much better damage than GT5 has. If we can get those soft-body physics? I don't know but i think yes it is possible. But PD and other developer should use their time and ressources from the team and console for other things.

 

[MSTER232]

No i don't do it. I said i can only judge what i see.

Why should a few racing games including a completely new racing game Project cars get the license to damage the car and GT not?

You can't say that GT5 doesn't have any damage at all, it's just that the damage physics needs work. And remember that car companies would feel different to different developers, just in the same way you feel different about different people.

 

[Spagetti69]

Hmmm, I think the standards are damaged enough tbh.

As far as manufacturers go.
I don't think I would want my marque portrayed as a standard and my competitors cars as premium.

 

[MSTER232]

Hmmm, I think the standards are damaged enough tbh.

As far as manufacturers go.
I don't think I would want my marque portrayed as a standard and my competitors cars as premium.

There is no real damage on standard cars, the cars are just given scratches and stretched parts.

 

[Spagetti69]

There is no real damage on standard cars, the cars are just given scratches and stretched parts.

Member Zuku claims that damage is unlocked as you progress.

I haven't played in ages so I can't confirm his claim.

 

[MSTER232]

Member Zuku claims that damage is unlocked as you progress.

I haven't played in ages so I can't confirm his claim.

His claim is not true. You have the same damage model on Level 0 as you have on Level 40.

 

[ch3ng]

You can't say that GT5 doesn't have any damage at all, it's just that the damage physics needs work. And remember that car companies would feel different to different developers, just in the same way you feel different about different people.

I know GT5 has damage I was trying to say that it could have better damage as other racing games show. Some said it is not PD's fault that the damage on a lot of cars is just bad.

 

[Spagetti69]

His claim is not true. You have the same damage model on Level 0 as you have on Level 40.

Well he's adamant (not 80's pop icon) but convinced its true.

Find it hard to believe myself also.

Got to level 30 in both Aspec and Bspec ages ago and realised I had started to dribble.

Never been back.

 

[Guardian]

. And no, I do not think that the PS4 can achieve this kind of stuff.

I agree with this^.

I think it would be brilliant incorporated in a GT Game.

 

[MSTER232]

And no, I do not think that the PS4 can achieve this kind of stuff.

But we don't even know what the specs of the PS4 are yet...?!

 

[steleb]

in my opinion it could work but it would need alot! of of work on PD's part

 

[MSTER232]

in my opinion it could work but it would need alot! of of work on PD's part

If it's going to happen then PD are going to need to hire a lot more workers and work without sleeping, literally. It means modelling all the parts of a car individually so that they can deform properly and it also means that you will be modelling all of the 500+ premium cars again. And on top of that people are always asking for more premium cars.

 

[zr1chris]

Thank you. As a reward you both get a free internet cookie each for your browsers to enjoy:

Y E S !!!!!!!! I got a cookie!!! Thanks man!

 

[gamerdog6482]

First, I have played RoR a lot, and there are very few cars that actually crash like in the video. 99.1% of them have a damage system worse than GT5. I one T-boned a Mustang GT in a Lamborghini Countach at over 150 MPH and neither of them had so much as a scratch.
Second, in RoR if you are driving a Ford F-350 on a normal road and you hit one bump, your bed breaks off. RoR isn't as realistic as it looks in that video, and I can't seem to find that truck.
Third, SB physics would turn out the same way in GT. You brush against the wall in a NASCAR, and all of a sudden your chassis falls apart. And then you take your Miura SV head on into a wall at 260 and nothing happens.
Fourth, that video claims constant 120 FPS, and it does. But only when you don't have a car. Once you render a car, it drops. I was getting constant 125 and then I spawned a 1949 Ford Tudor and FPS dropped to an average of .8, not very ideal for a console game.

 

[Antonisbob]

Lol.

You're not a PC gamer are you?

I'm not a gamer.

I'm poor and have no money.

My computer is 8 years old.

Answer your question?

Soft-body physics aren't necessary as long as GT6 has damage similar to GRiD or the DiRT series.

 

[Yauma9]

In the truck video the body looks really loose or wobbly, and on the DB9 video it looks exaggerated , but I feel it doesn't fit into GT, however I would be a happy man if parts of a street car actually fell off.

 

[Yauma9]

Double post

 

[Tenacious D]

I really don't get the point of soft body physics. No one in their right mind races in a wobbly junkheap, and a car that damaged isn't going to last long or perform worth a spit if it does. If the Course Maker is a waste of time, I'd have to say that this is worse.

 

[JBanton]

Oh well, polls suggest that the majority agree with me

22.45% say no at the time of this post.

 

[MSTER232]

I really don't get the point of soft body physics. No one in their right mind races in a wobbly junkheap, and a car that damaged isn't going to last long or perform worth a spit if it does. If the Course Maker is a waste of time, I'd have to say that this is worse.

Maybe they will have to programme it so that the soft-body physics only apply when you hit something.

 

[JBanton]

Maybe they will have to programme it so that the soft-body physics only apply when you hit something.

Or simply use material properties relevant to real life i.e. having the same tensile strength, tolerances and young's modulus as the real-life equivalent would.

 

[MSTER232]

Or simply use material properties relevant to real life i.e. having the same tensile strength, tolerances and young's modulus as the real-life equivalent would.

So you're saying that this would allow soft-body physics to be in place and still have decent and realistic driving physics when racing without any contact?