Sound Off! What Will it Take to Impress Arcade Racers about Gran Turismo?

[crimson_menace]

How about a customization system like in Forza or the NFSU series. That'd impress me. Everything else is wonderful, and i couldn't ask for much more than that.

 

[Tenacious D]

Yuck. NFSU is for posers. Gran Turismo is for racers.

 

[JohnBM01]

When I was at EB Games this past weekend, I had a chance to play the latest installment of the Burnout series, "Burnout Revenge." As you may well know, I've said that I've been a fan of the Burnout series, but lost respect as people keep thinking it's better than Gran Turismo or even Forza. Almost anyone is going to say "[Forza is] better than Gran Turismo 4," but even worse to say that something like Burnout Revenge is "still king of the road."

From an analytical standpoint, some of my Burnout skills remained intact. You know, near miss a car, drive on the wrong side of the road, get some air, drift all out of control, and let's not forget a new element- Takedown! I can understand what arcade-type racers love about such games- fast almost all the time, forgiving physics, and at times, fun racing. My thing is, I've just been so used to sim-type racing. So much so, that I guess I kind of forget what arcade-style racing is about. I even had the PC game "NASCAR Racing 1999 Edition." You could select what mode of racing you wanted to use. Choose Arcade, and you have a slow launch off the line, but you move through the gears at slightly higher RPMs, your car handles much better than your plain jane "stock" car, and you'll get challenged for the lead several times. The Simulation driving model allows you to experience how the race cars perform. There was also these specifications in terms of damage. There was None, Arcade, and Simulation in terms of damage.

I'm glad you all brought this conversation back with some good info to provide. I've been thinking more and more about this. I kind of considered some of your ideas. To me, all I want to think about is a way to make Gran Turismo fun for arcade racers. Of course, I don't work for PD or Sony. My premise is, how can GT5 be fun for arcade and sim racers alike? How can it be made so that there aren't any excuses such as "it's not as fun as Burnout/NFS:U/(insert favorite arcade racing game here)?" Having said this, you are free to continue discussion.

 

[arsenal]

I have been finding myself playing GT1 a lot more recently, because compared to GT4, the original's physics seem pretty arcade like to me. As in the Burnout games, in GT1, I find it is almost too easy to drift, however, I still think it is really fun. Some of my favorite cars, like the impreza, viper, and cerbera are not too realistic, but they are very fun to drive and mostly pretty easy. There is a chance I am wrong about it being easy, since I have many years experience, but I do know that it is much easier than GT4, sim or arcade mode.

I think it would be great if the next Gran Turismo had something like a "GT1 mode" that simulated the physics of the first game. I think that this would be much more fun and friendly for the "arcade gamers," and I'm sure I would enjoy it as well. Then again, I might be the only one, and if any of us here could really solve Gran Tursimo's problems, I guess we would be working for Polyphony Digital right?

 

[Tenacious D]

I think we see the answer in the above posts. Arcade race nuts will want an arcade racer. They'll want riced up body kits, ugly paint jobs, the ability to blow up their car to take down opponents, bounce pistons, spinners, subwoofers, and a Dance Dance Revolution disco soundtrack.

Meh.

Arsenal's post aside, which was reasonable. To the thread question, I say, Gran Turismo 4 is the top selling PS2 game of THE FIRST SIX MONTHS!

Let the Vin Diesel's of this world have their EA NASCAR Draft Fest 2006 and Need For Speed: Car Sick Bag. Who needs them demanding things that will trash a wonderful work of art.

 

[arsenal]

I always want to say that I think Gran Turismo is doing the right thing by trying to cater to racing fans in general with its sim mode, rather than just racing video game fans. They didn't just try to capture the market, but they tried to expand it instead, to auto racing fans who would otherwise never play a video game. I think this is great for the video game industry, much like what Nintendo are trying to do with the Revolution, and its new controller that looks like a regular TV remote. This kind of innovative thinking will help create new customers who never even played video games before. I believe this is why the Gran Turismo experiences such great sales.

However, I still worry about the point that was brought up earlier in this thread that Gran Turismo's fans could become a dying breed in the future. Too many people my age (19) are into ricing their cars and street racing and don't even know what Formula 1, WRC, or Le Mans are. (especially Americans) I guess only time will tell what happens to GT's fanbase, but I hope it continues to grow because these games deserve it.

Oh and, Need For Speed: Car Sick Bag 👍

 

[Tenacious D]

Aheh, I TRY to say it with humor, so I don't offend anyone, and once in a while something funny does slip out.

But, hrm... a dying breed? Anything is possible. Disney could have crashed and burned early on. RPGs could loose their appeal. Sega did quit making consoles.

Then again, remember that sales report, and that's just for the first half of 2005. I always figured that the enthusiast hardcore racer was maybe 10-15% of the videogame market, and that games like Daytona and Need For Speed would way outsell things like Gran Turismo. So that sales item really freaked me out! That tells me that Kazunori found the magic everyone was looking for. That when you think of racing games, what pops to the top of everyone's mind isn't Demolition Derby, Twisted Metal, or Need For Speed: Soiled Underwear. Where do I get these?

I think this is a sign that Gran Turismo HAS the formula, and shouldn't be messed with. One of the many things I love about the game is you can race all kinds of cars, not just 200kmh plus beasts. I can race in my stock Toyota Supra if I want. And then I can work my way up to Rally, the LeMans cars or Formula 1 if I have what it takes. So far I do.

GT doesn't have to take over the world. It's great that there are all kinds of racing games to suit everyone. Some people have to have boomier engine samples and muscle machines with over 400 hp, and couldn't be bothered with street cars. So there are games like GTR or NASCAR. Some people like Rally, so for them there's Colin McRae or Richard Burns. Some like Formula 1 or motorcycles, and there are games for those chaps and lasses. But Gran Turismo gives me the world of racing with an unbelievable sense of being there, involved in the car, whether it's a 240SX or a Ford GT40. And other companies know the formula worked, because there's Enthusia and Forza, which I doubt are as good, but competition is always a good thing.

The other thing I like about Gran Turismo is there's no Car Sick Bag or Takedown Mode. Part of the glamor of GT is the purity of the sport, whether it's street racing or Formula 1. I say, don't mess with the ultimate race series. There are plenty of eye candy cha-ching games for the kids who want to glam up their streets. But it's clear that the race nuts always know that if you want to take it to the next level, there's Gran Turismo. The numbers say so. I think the only way that the GT crowd could die off is if males across the globe stop liking cars.

 

[Encyclopedia]

Quite frankly, I don't care if Gran Turismo 5 will impress arcaders. I would rather have a pure sim actually, but of course with the elements that make GT what it is.

Buying cars, tuning them etc..

 

[niky]

Hey, at the guy above who says NFSU2 sucks? Maybe it does, but you're discounting something that NFSU2 did that was right.

NFSU2 has the most comprehensive and useful dyno-tuning screen on the planet. Well, useful even if you could blow the competition away without even touching the ECU-maps. But NFSU, as a series, helped to move the "tuning" and "customization" game forward a whole lot. And it helped introduced arcaders to a whole new dimension of arcade racing... notably that careful tuning will make your car faster... and better.

I can't help but think that this influenced more than a few arcaders to pick up GT4.

Is NFSU2 a stupid game? Sometimes, and in some ways, yes... it's way too short, unrealistic physics, too easy to drift, too easy to steer, etc, etc, etc... but that didn't prevent me from enjoying it.

 

[Tenacious D]

Niky, I do enjoy making fun of NFSU a bit too much. Part of it is that it's an Electronic Arts game, and I lost my love of EA a long time ago. The other part is the disdain I have for "The Fast & the Furious" crowd, which unfortunately has flooded the sports car world with a bunch of rich brats who are all involved in their inflated egos and "metallic manhood."

But look, NFSU has it's world, warped though it is, and I don't quibble with that. And lucky for us, there are a lot of people who discover the joy of a game which mimics reality and isn't based on bling, ugly paint jobs, subwoofers, fake physics and reckless driving.

I do take issue with people wanting to drag all that nonsense into Gran Turismo, or even some of it. Harf.

If GT didn't have mods or upgrades, then I'd agree with you. But... a dyno test?? I think that's all that GT lacks, and to that I say big deal. If Polyphony includes it in Gran Turismo 5, I might do it a couple of times to hear some intolerable engine whine, but other than that, just give me the darn test results!

 

[Operator]

Damn NFSU. It's ugly IMHO, yet it framelags so much on my PS2... I mean wtf, framelag on a console..

 

[JohnBM01]

Encyclopedia, that would be easy to say. All my premise is, can a Gran Turismo game be truly acceptable and fun as any arcade-type racing game. Perhaps my biggest antagonist in my argument is the Burnout games. The series can be fun, but I'd NEVER place such a game higher than any Gran Turismo. In much the way that people hate sim-type racing games for being too hard, I kind of dislike most arcade-type racing games for the fact that they can be pretty damn tough. With most arcade racing games, it's all about either precise cornering at unrealistic speeds, or high speed racing where you cannot lose focus, or you'll wipe out bigtime. Take "Midnight Club 2," for example. Time and time again, I've lost all because I missed a route, got whacked by a cop, had my car blown up into something, or whatever. Gran Turismo isn't that punishing, so you can recover from trouble. You learn patience and learn to step up and use your brain to know how to win the race at hand.

To me, that's been my gripe about such arcade racers of today. I honestly don't see how you can have fun with a Burnout, but completely loathe a Gran Turismo. It's still racing. And that's all I wanted to expose in this thread. Is it possible for fans of arcade racing games to either play a GT game, appreciate a GT game, love a GT game as much as an arcade racer... anything so that the American gaming media doesn't start being like "(arcade-type racing game) is much better than Gran Turismo x." I make it sound like there's absolutely no excuse why if you love arcade-style racing games, that you can still find fun in any Gran Turismo game even if you're used to completely unrealistic and insane racing games.

 

[Operator]

well I was about 11-12 when I got my hands on my Playstation 1. I got a couple of arcade racers for it and GT1. I only enjoyed GT1. I simply didnt find arcade racers fun. I hate NFSU and Burnout series aswell. Although I purchased B3, because I read great review about it everywhere.

..but imho its horrible. I simply dont find it fun. Pretty boring.

only arcade racer i like is Ridge Racer.

 

[luftrofl]

Put in body kits(should be there anyways for aerodynamic effects), and add another way to change/mod your car(simpler settings interface, car graphics, etc.), and you'll get the need for speed undergrounders to flock to the stores to buy Gran Turismo

👍

Keep the complex stuff though. Simple is boring.

I'd actually like to race through some of those insanely fast, tight NFSU courses though in my cars from GT. Damage would make it so much better. Love the lights of the cities too(we only get a couple of tracks in GT at night with loads of city lights ), and with all the bumps of a crappy industrial-district city road..... *drools*. 👍

 

[arsenal]

I'd actually like to race through some of those insanely fast, tight NFSU courses though in my cars from GT. Damage would make it so much better. Love the lights of the cities too(we only get a couple of tracks in GT at night with loads of city lights ), and with all the bumps of a crappy industrial-district city road..... *drools*. 👍

That would probably be great for the rally mode. I think that's kind of what they were getting at with George V Paris, but it didn't turn out that great.

 

[JohnBM01]

Here's an idea I had in reviving this topic. For the ones who like street racing like in Juiced, Street Racing Syndicate, NFS Series, and all... how would you like an Amateur-level racing series that are all street courses? Think about it. I actually like racing street courses since I'm so much of a city boy. But think about it like this. It can be like the Ridge Racer series in which you have a tuned machine going up against a pack of others on city streets. I don't think drifting would play a part, but at least the gamers into game like Burnout and stuff can enjoy racing on the streets in a legal, professional manner. I'd love to race Tokyo R246 just about any time I get a chance in a GT game. Special Stage Routes 5 and 11 are always a nice challenge as well.

Think about it. For amateur racers wanting the thrill of speed from vehicles like a Subaru Impreza, Nissan R34 Skyline, or even the Nissan 350Z... a special class requiring Standard or Sports tires that you can take to street courses and test your muscle in a professional racing environment. Do you think this idea would be nice for those looking for street racing thrills?

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I think that idea sounds good for arcaders, but hear me out.
I think arcade in GT4 is quite good as an arcade, atleast as far as tuning, difficulty (thats adjustable IIRC), and realism goes, but it could be made even easier. Let´s get all cars with full driving aids and R5 tyres as standard. This is adjustable as it is, but what if that possibility is removed, and we get a on/off function for damage instead. That would make arcade mode even arcadier, and with the possible larger startingfields in GT5, I´d say thats a pretty darn good arcadegame! And one thing to keep, is that arcade and sim has very little to do with eachother, the only things being unlocking cars and tracks for arcade in sim mode. The inclusion of an arcade with just citytracks as a starter would be right up the alley of arcaders. To make it even more appealing, PD could pick out say 100 of the faster cars from the game and have them as starters in arcade. This way, you sort of get two games in one!

 

[niky]

A Rallycross mode would be an excellent addition.

Having seen quite a few street battles on official closed off courses, incorporating parking lots, driveways and two laners, I think it'd be a good answer to the "no place to run slow cars" problem.

 

[greenlightning]

When I think of arcade style racings, I think about instant fun. Meaning fun should be achieved with out having to know very much about the game. The premis should be to keep it simple, meaning find your car and be racing in as little real time as possible. All settings should be simple and quick to use. With GT4, the arcade mode is almost pointless to me. If they stay with seperate arcade mode for GT5 it should be independent of the GT mode, like in GT3 etc. Win races, unlock tracks and cars, at the end all tracks and cars should be unlocked. I am guessing that a lot of people who play GT4 will never have the chance to drive some of the cars without the use of a cheat disk. Myself included, just do not have the time to build up the cash or race some of the endurances, even with "B"-spec. For two player mode, which is what I use the arcade for, I would like to see option for one player to choose a car then the game would find all cars that match that one. Then you could filter the list even further. Give us the ability to create are own races and race events in arcade mode, meaning we can set the race criteria. The following is a fictional demonstration.

I had some friends over to do spend an afternoon of racing on the latest installement of the GT series. Six of my friends has showed up for what great GT racings. We chose to use a elimination type of format, where the player who was ahead of the other person at the end of the race stayed and the other player had to set out the next race. We planed to race for about 6 to eight hours straight that afternoon/evening. We all agreed to do an 20 track race series of about 25 to 50 laps per track. We selected 10 tracks and then had 10 tracks randomly chosen. Weather was set to random with 75% clear and 25% rain factor. Field of cars was set to max, meaning player 1 and 2 then 18 or more A.I. opponents for most races. Horsepower setting was placed at 500 max, drivetrain was open, manufactor type was open, year was set at 1960 - 1980 models only, no tuning restrictions,damage was on, penalties for abusive driving and off track driving was on. The race tournament overall winner would be the one with the most points after 20 races. Point settings was set with points for race win, laps led, record laps etc. The players all decided it would be better to choose the A.I. cars with random paint color setting on. Handicap points per player was set to none ( everyone would have approx. same chance of winning and all had about same skill level ). Each player had say 5 minuets to find and tune the car at start of each race. Before the tournament started each player was allowed to choose 6 cars to use. At the end of the tournament detailed race summaries was generated, with things like record laps, point standings, no. laps won, etc. and the summary could be save or printed out. Just an extreme example, but I think some of it would be fairly simple to include, to really give two player or more a kick in the pants.

 

[Disturbed07]

how about returning it to a GT1 style arcade-mode, where you get good cars, and have to race and beat it with all 3 levels of cars, to unlock more tracks, and cars?
And also add in the extra speed, and sense of speed like they did with GT1's arcade-mode?
And possibly add availability of upgrades, rather than getting all from the beginning? as one last thought, Team666's idea of R5 tires, though I might say R1's for street cars, and R5's for race cars, when you get that far in...