Space In General

Huge mystery Planet 9 is causing the tilt in the orbital plane of our solar system, scientists now say. Could this be responsible for the poorly understood periodic ice ages? I think so. These ice age glaciations/interglaciations have been happening with metronomic regularity for over a million years. Total climate change occurs each time, the surface of the Earth is literally swept away by glaciers in the beginning and floods at the end. The world ocean changes height by 400' (123 meters).

"Astronomers are more confident than ever that a huge ninth planet remains undiscovered – because it’s probably tilting the Solar System.

Since earlier this year, scientists have believed that a so-far unseen world is out somewhere on the edge of the Solar System. But now, a new study has suggested that ninth planet may be responsible for the tilt that makes the Sun look like it’s off at an angle from the planets."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bridain...lanet-nine-tilting-solar-system/#69662636e04f
Mysterious-Planet-Nine-Is-Pulling-Our-Solar-System-Out-Of-Whack.jpg


This artistic rendering shows the distant view from Planet Nine back towards the sun. The planet is thought to be gaseous, similar to Uranus and Neptune. Hypothetical lightning lights up the night side.
(Credit: Caltech/R. Hurt (IPAC))
 
Overall failure rate of Mars missions is about 50%. IMO there is no possible way to design a manned mission without developing a statistically reliable process for success.

True, but a differing factor would be a human-piloted descent. Currently all landings have been automated and rely on specifically pre-programmed routines given the difficulty (and time lag) in radio communication with any remote lander.

I agree that any technology still needs to be proven but arguably a human landing is far more controllable.
 
True, but a differing factor would be a human-piloted descent. Currently all landings have been automated and rely on specifically pre-programmed routines given the difficulty (and time lag) in radio communication with any remote lander.

I agree that any technology still needs to be proven but arguably a human landing is far more controllable.
I would agree perhaps if we were talking about Earth. A landing on Mars could be attempted only after the journey there. It is known that radiation sickness could be encountered along the way - and that could result in anxiety, disorientation, clouded judgment and a whole host of physical problems which could jeopardize a safe landing. The inherent issue of heavy payloads slowing and descending to a controlled touchdown has yet to be attempted, let alone become reliable.
 
It is known that radiation sickness could be encountered along the way - and that could result in anxiety, disorientation, clouded judgment and a whole host of physical problems which could jeopardize a safe landing.
Elon Musk was asked about this after his Mars announcement and he didn't seem to think it was a big issue. Not saying he's right, but he's not dumb either.

Edit: http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/28/1...mars-plan-habitat-radiation-funding-questions

"There’s going to be some risk of radiation, but it’s not deadly," said Musk. "There will be some slightly increased risk of cancer, but I think it’s relatively minor." He went on to describe ways that Mars colonists could shield themselves — perhaps by reorienting the spaceship during a solar flare and huddling under a column of water. Still, he made it clear he wasn’t particularly concerned about this problem. "The radiation thing is often brought up, but I think it’s not too big of a deal," said Musk.
 
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I would agree perhaps if we were talking about Earth. A landing on Mars could be attempted only after the journey there. It is known that radiation sickness could be encountered along the way - and that could result in anxiety, disorientation, clouded judgment and a whole host of physical problems which could jeopardize a safe landing. The inherent issue of heavy payloads slowing and descending to a controlled touchdown has yet to be attempted, let alone become reliable.

Oh come on, "spaceflight is arduous" is a whole different argument ;)

EDIT: Kinda-tree'd by @R1600Turbo :)
 
Elon Musk was asked about this after his Mars announcement and he didn't seem to think it was a big issue. Not saying he's right, but he's not dumb either.

I'd say Musk has been a fanatic about sending men to Mars since he was a child. Today, he's a grownup child with billions of dollars to spend on his dreams and his toys. And a still a fanatic. Not dumb, but not reasonable either. It's not possible for a fanatic to be reasonable.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...ns-problem-any-mission-mars-180959092/?no-ist

In the vast emptiness of space, two forms of radiation menace astronauts: Cosmic rays zip through the galaxy at near-light speeds, while solar activity produces a more subdued form of radiation. Both are a problem for space travelers, causing conditions ranging from impaired vision to cancer.

This radiation isn’t a problem here on Earth thanks to the planet's protective atmosphere, which blocks the worst of it. But engineers still don’t have effective methods to shield astronauts from these dangers, and that adds an extra level of risk to already risky plans to send humans to Mars on a three-year journey by the 2030s.

"There may be mission-level risks that literally put the mission at risk—the whole mission, not just the individual astronauts—if one or more crew members are incapacitated," says radiation expert Ron Turner, a senior science adviser at NASA's Institute for Advanced Concepts in Atlanta who studies risk management strategies for human space missions. "It's important that we get that data over the next ten years so we are able to make prudent planning for a future Mars mission."

The sun constantly sheds energetic particles through the solar wind. And levels of these particles rise and fall during the sun’s 22-year solar cycle. Solar storms also can hurl massive blobs of charged particles into space, with the 11-year peak producing the most activity. The powerful radiation can not only increase long-term cancer risks but also cause immediate issues such as vomiting, fatigue and vision problems.


http://www.space.com/24731-mars-radiation-curiosity-rover.html
The Mars rover Curiosity has allowed us to finally calculate an average dose over the 180-day journey. It is approximately 300 mSv, the equivalent of 24 CAT scans. In just getting to Mars, an explorer would be exposed to more than 15 times an annual radiation limit for a worker in a nuclear power plant.

Data from Curiosity also demonstrated that landing only partially solves the problem. Once on the Martian surface, cosmic radiation coming from the far side of the planet is blocked. This cuts down detected GCRs by half. The protection from strong solar particles, though, is shoddy and inconsistent. Substantial variations in SEPs occur as the meager Martian atmosphere is tussled by solar wind.

"The variability [in radiation levels] was much larger than expected," Hassler said. "[This creates] variability in weekly and monthly dose rates. There are also seasonal variations in radiation."
 
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People that stay on the ISS for several months on end seem to be fine. The best thing about science is that there are more than likely people working on it. Even if radiation is a problem right now, we have 15-20 years to find a solution.
 
People that stay on the ISS for several months on end seem to be fine. The best thing about science is that there are more than likely people working on it. Even if radiation is a problem right now, we have 15-20 years to find a solution.
The solution is likely to mainly be a system which grossly reduces transit time to Mars. New forms of propulsion are currently being experimented with which show signs of promise.

The ISS is protected from most radiation because of its low Earth orbit, well inside Earth's magnetic field and mostly well below the Van Allen belts.
 
In response to solar activity, electric ground currents picked up in particular places on Earth. In an extreme example of this, long distance powerlines can pick up excess current, and cause transformers to overheat and fail. Mars might be even more vulnerable, since it lacks a global magnetic field. Oddly, it seems to have smaller bubbles of magnetic fields, localized in regions.


Very Stable Ground Curr Pulsations
Taken by Rob Stammes on October 23, 2016 @ Polarlightcenter Lofoten Norway.
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"Just after midnight UTC and around 02.36 local time, my ground current instruments picked up these very stable pulsations," says Stammes.

What's happening here? Ground currents are a sign of changing magnetic fields. Earth's magnetic field around the Lofoten Islands was swinging back and forth, inducing a sinusoidal amperage in the soil beneath Stamme's observatory.

These are natural ultra-low frequency oscillations known to researchers as "pulsations continuous" (Pc). The physics is familiar to anyone who has studied bells or resonant cavities. Earth's magnetic field extends out into space and carves out a cavity in the surrounding solar wind. Pressure fluctuations in the solar wind can excite wave modes in the cavity--usually in a noisy cacophany of many frequencies, but sometimes with almost-monochromatic purity. In such cases, Earth's magnetic field "rings like a bell" with slow tones that reach all the way down to the ground. That's what happened on Oct. 23rd. References: #1, #2, #3.

-from the October 25, 2016 edition of spaceweather.com
 
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Fuel-less space travel is a real possibility. It changes a lot of things, as far as deep space travel.

Great stuff! The article has an error though, it states that the drive requires a vacuum but the paper says it doesn't.

The experiment will (if I read correctly) be repeated in a much larger vacuum chamber, the problem with a photon is that you don't know where it are.

Fuel-less space travel is a real possibility. It changes a lot of things, as far as deep space travel.

It's not fuel-less though - Newton's still winning that one :D
 
http://www.sciencealert.com/leaked-nasa-paper-shows-the-impossible-em-drive-really-does-work

The EM drive apparently does work, but scientists cannot figure out how exactly. It goes against some of the laws of physics. If they can figure this thing out,
Fuel-less space travel is a real possibility. It changes a lot of things, as far as deep space travel.

Thomas Jefferson
A thousand phenomena present themselves daily which we cannot explain, but where facts are suggested, bearing no analogy with the laws of nature as yet known to us, their verity needs proofs proportioned to their difficulty.
Anybody remembers the faster than light neutrinos?
 
But that was an error caused in a single calibration. Did you read the linked paper?

I glossed over it. So they have no existing physical mechanism to explain the unaccounted thrust, and without something exiting the system momentum would not be conserved -- a claim of "faster than light" proportions. So the easier explanation would be that they have not accounted for something mundane exiting the system and generating the thrust -- with the finicky torsion balance setup it's very easy to miss something.

The "null" test is also worthless, as they just tilt their system so that no thrust is generated on the torsion balance -- when they don't know what generates the thrust then mundane explanations can generate no thrust in that situation too.

In summary it's not enough for me to be convinced that momentum conservation is violated.
 
I glossed over it. So they have no existing physical mechanism to explain the unaccounted thrust, and without something exiting the system momentum would not be conserved -- a claim of "faster than light" proportions. So the easier explanation would be that they have not accounted for something mundane exiting the system and generating the thrust -- with the finicky torsion balance setup it's very easy to miss something.

The "null" test is also worthless, as they just tilt their system so that no thrust is generated on the torsion balance -- when they don't know what generates the thrust then mundane explanations can generate no thrust in that situation too.

Mundane solutions are considered in the paper, and it's also worth noting that reverse impulse is also generated. See the authors' notes for experimental improvements.

In summary it's not enough for me to be convinced that momentum conservation is violated.

Aren't you missing something important about the quantum nature of photons? They can "be" in two places at once, the impulse in this experiment is generated by the differences between the wave and the position. You should look up some of the references too - this was not a stand-alone experiment but a response to considered, peer-reviewed theory in the public domain.

Besides, doesn't gravity violate momentum conservation in the same way - something is providing potential but you just don't know what?
 
Mundane solutions are considered in the paper, and it's also worth noting that reverse impulse is also generated. See the authors' notes for experimental improvements.

They just turn the device to generate reverse thrust, and turn the device parallel to the torsion balance axis to generate no deviation seen on the balance when the device is switched on. All of this is consistent with a device that generates thrust by propelling stuff out at one end like a rocket or someone sitting on a wheel chair and throwing tennis balls in one direction. They claim and need to proof that the thrust is generated while no ordinary* stuff exits the system. If they don't find stuff exiting the system i guess they have to check more thoroughly.

Aren't you missing something important about the quantum nature of photons? They can "be" in two places at once, the impulse in this experiment is generated by the differences between the wave and the position. You should look up some of the references too - this was not a stand-alone experiment but a response to considered, peer-reviewed theory in the public domain.

Besides, doesn't gravity violate momentum conservation in the same way - something is providing potential but you just don't know what?

I don't know much about quantum mechanics and general relativity, but conservation of momentum is a key ingredient in both theories and well established fact.

EDIT: See here for some neat insights coming from momentum conservation in relativity theory.

*I just found that in their paper they explain the thrust as generated by the quantum vacuum acting as rebound medium and that explains the thrust without violation of momentum conservation -- barring any simpler explanations. That might give them something testable: if they can show that the quantum vacuum is different in the line of thrust as it somehow interacted with the device then is would be proof of their claims. They still need a new theory as theorists say interacting with the vacuum to generate thrust is not possible in the current quantum theory. Until then i'd rather wait for them to find their unaccounted radiation or misattached cable. ;)
 
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They just turn the device to generate reverse thrust, and turn the device parallel to the torsion balance axis to generate no deviation seen on the balance when the device is switched on. All of this is consistent with a device that generates thrust by propelling stuff out at one end like a rocket or someone sitting on a wheel chair and throwing tennis balls in one direction. They claim and need to proof that the thrust is generated while no ordinary* stuff exits the system. If they don't find stuff exiting the system i guess they have to check more thoroughly.



I don't know much about quantum mechanics and general relativity, but conservation of momentum is a key ingredient in both theories and well established fact.
*I just found that in their paper they explain the thrust as generated by the quantum vacuum acting as rebound medium and that explains the thrust without violation of momentum conservation -- barring any simpler explanations. That might give them something testable: if they can show that the quantum vacuum is different in the line of thrust as it somehow interacted with the device then is would be proof of their claims. They still need a new theory as theorists say interacting with the vacuum to generate thrust is not possible in the current quantum theory. Until then i'd rather wait for them to find their unaccounted radiation or misattached cable. ;)
I know many physicists object strongly, even heatedly, to this EM drive rocket and it's concept and violation of precious laws of physics. It would be very ironic, even funny, to actually use it in space to accomplish some mission, and still not make the physicists happy with an acceptable explanation and theory fitting the laws. If it were magic and it still worked, there are some who would use magic to achieve the stars.
 
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I know many physicists object strongly, even heatedly, to this EM drive rocket and it's concept and violation of precious laws of physics.
I guess it's more like

but the part after "Show Me" never happens. :lol:

If it were magic and it still worked, there are some who would use magic to achieve the stars.

If it would work it wouldn't be magic (magic as in paranormal) and if it's magic (magic as in illusion) there is a trick/natural explanation waiting to be discovered. If it works and is paranormal, they at least doesn't have to fear lack of funding...:sly:
 
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