Spot Race Challenge Discussion Thread!!

  • Thread starter mafia_boy
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SHOGUN VS GME
Tuner Garage Showdown​

Since we're coming up with similar tunes to eachother lately, both shoman & I feel it's best that GME & Shogun had a showdown to see who had the best tune for the prospective GT4 driver. The competition so far is in 2 stages.

Stage 1: Alfa Duetto showdown.
Stage 2: Toyota Caldina showdown.

Cars are tuned up as per spec sheets provided (links to follow) and judged to the same criteria as Tuner Cup Version 4!! with a five point bonus provided to the car with the fastest lap time. This may help a car that's more wild to control but faster overall or extend a lead already gained by better tuning. The choice of circuit is up to you, but tell us where your judging did take place.

So, onto the cars for the challenge.

STAGE 1: Duetto showdown

Shogun's Alfa Duetto (by I-ROC)
GME's Alfa Duetto (by mafia_boy)

STAGE 2: Caldina showdown

Shogun's Caldina GT-Four-Seven (by shoman)
GME's Caldina WRC Edition (by mafia_boy)

We need you to test our cars out and tell us, who is better?? GME or Shogun?? :)

Let the battle begin!!
 
The Caldinas will be interesting, but for the GME ride to run with the Shogun tune in terms of lap time, the Shogun tune has to be crap-to-mediocre and the GME tune excellent due to the weight and downforce differences.

The incredibly simplistic Shogun Alfa may be running reversed odds, in that it is somewhat theoretically disadvantaged without a tuned transmission and less power...

Should be good. :cool:
 
I will see if I can do some comparisons! :D I sold my Alfa, unfortunately :( Seems like I will have to get one again.
 
Be awesome if you can C-L. 👍 And don't worry, the Duetto is cheap to buy from the Alfa (legendary cars) car lots, about 13,000-15,000 from memory. :D

So, hopefully we have atleast 3 people's views coming up:
1. PF
2. Camryfan
3. Codename L

Like Street Fighter, let's do this........Round 1, Alfa vs Alfa.......FIGHT!! :D
 
up,up,down,down, left,right,left,b,a start. mafs, may the best tunes win. I think we need to do this every once in a while.
 
Go for it.

Speaking of which, Camryfan, PF & C-L, how are your runs going of the two comparos so far?? :)

I've tested the Duetto's back to back and am trying to formulate thoughts, views and feeling into meaningful English prose. I'm fairly sure PF actually said he was afp (playstation) so we may or may not see anything from him.
 
So, it's been a couple of days.....have you been able to translate your comments from Adeladian to English yet Camryfan or are you testing the Caldina's against eachother?? :)
 
So, it's been a couple of days.....have you been able to translate your comments from Adeladian to English yet Camryfan or are you testing the Caldina's against eachother?? :)



I'm waiting for the Caldina's myself, I think the other one is a lock for Mafs
 
I've discovered a new quick way to create avatars from youtube vids. ;) Today's avatar is from the video "Fat Kid & TNT" (search YT for it, it's hilarious!!) I'd put the video up on here in the YT gallery but the first 20 seconds are of the little fatboy swearing. :lol:

I was thinking of doing the **** in my pants guy too for a different avatar. :P
 
Tuner Challenge has come early this year but this time no-one said anything about it, nothing was discussed and the list of contender's is much smaller and I'm testing two identical cars. Well I say identical but they both been tuned differently and now we must go to fight club to see which is best.

Shogun Duetto
Let's kick off with the Shogun style Duetto.The engine in the Shogun Duetto has 200 horsepower through turbocharging with the power going through a strengthen manual gearbox to a custom limited slip differential. Though the tuner claims “a little bit of understeer” it all depends on where you are and what your doing. In the sweepers and medium to fast bends there is that little bit of understeer, mostly due to missing braking markers but in the isle of Capri or even a quick flick during the S-bend and this Duetto likes to play games in the woods. It seems to happen in slow motion, it's very easy to recover it although its more for fun rather then a quick lap time as you lose quite a bit of speed doing it.

GME Duetto.

Split personality, that's the term that came to mind I came out of this car. I've driven it a few times now across different tracks and territories and it shows me something different every time I drive it. The cars well composed but stronger on the tighter circuits while a little bit limp and resistant on the longer sweeping bends. The GME Duetto has more power at just about 240 horsepower that is transmitted through a custom made transmission and limited slip differential.

Comparison.

This is where the two cars will enter fight club and only one will emerge the winner. So which is best.

The first talking point is the transmission. Gun feelings and seat of the pants dyno's give me the idea that the GME tune is better on the acceleration front but rather then guts lets bring in some actual science. Coming back from the track we anaylise the data and find that the GME Duetto pretty much smashes the Shogun Duetto. Acceleration over a short distance like 0-100 and the quarter mile show that there isn't a lot of difference between the two cars but everywhere else the GME Duetto wins by one or two seconds.

times-1.png


Where not convinced that the transmission has a big effect on these numbers though. While we can see the benefits of the transmission on top speed (216 for the Shogun versus 239 out of GME), the GME Duetto does have some 40 horsepower up on the Shogun model.

Therefore the only place to really test the difference between the two Duetto's is on the race circuit and infact that complicates things even more. The GME box works very well on the shorter tight circuits but the Shoguns stock box is quite competent as is particularly on Deep Forest. Approaching the first corner the Shogun can be held in 3rd around the corner while the GME entry requires a bit of gearshifting to keep the engine on the boil. On balance though, the GME box wins out.

After driving the Shougun Duetto it's easy to underestimate the GME model. The GME feels numb but turns hard and can often be twitchy on the limit hence the term “split personality”. The Shogun model feels numb and is numb.

On really sharp roads like Capri however the cars feel different, The slower speeds means that the Shogun model comes out of it's shell a bit more and becomes a little more engaging. The Shogun model had a little more tail out action as did the GME Duetto but the GME flavor was just more controllable in this situation.

So we have an answer then. Intial comparisons showed that there was very little between the two cars there was very little between the two cars but in the end on balance the GME wins out being more consistent across different tracks and being the faster across them as well.

Duetto - Shogun Style
Comfort: 22
I always knew what I was going to get from this car...
Cornering Attitude: 20
.... even if it was understeer.
Power: 12
This is a comparison and comparatively, the GME has more power.
Improvement 8
Fine tune

Bonus Points – 0
Points 60

Points 60
GME Duetto.

Comfort 15
Split personality, in one session I was amazed and in the next I was off the track. It was a good car but requires quite a change in driving style.
Cornering Attitude: 25
but it was amazingly fast and had excellent front end grip.
Power: 15
This is a comparison and 200 versus 240, you could always win.
Improvement: 9
Driver Error? Maybe or maybe not but my only compaints where with consitancy.

Bonus Points -5
Fastest car.

Total 69
 
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Um, Camryfan, you missed out on a whole section.....Cornering Prowess!! That's a 1/4 of our score as it's 25pts. for that category mate. ;)

Re-do your scoring. :P

Also, I can't see that graph properly, it's too small. ;)
 
Um, Camryfan, you missed out on a whole section.....Cornering Prowess!! That's a 1/4 of our score as it's 25pts. for that category mate. ;)

Re-do your scoring. :P

Also, I can't see that graph properly, it's too small. ;)

It was generally agreed (or agreed by one person anyway) that the judging criteria for TCv4 was stupid in some ways and the attitude and prowess were too close together to judge separately so I just lumped them together. Yeah I need to re-do that graph as well. It just shows the times for the standing quarter, 1000m etc. which your Duetto one convincingly.
 
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Congrats Mafs, I knew that, I would have to hope for a split. My young tuner made me proud today, in the end it can down to the gearing.
 
Re-do your scoring. :P

We had no real/solid instructions so I'll argue in Camry's favour. His review was excellent (as always) so should stand. As long as we can see that table, whatever it is.

@Camry:
the attitude and prowess where to close
dint mi gerlfren teech yoo nuffink mait?

Great reviews though, you keep pushing the bar with regard to approaching different parts of the car in relation to their application on different tracks. Excellent work.
 
PF
@Camry:
dint mi gerlfren teech yoo nuffink mait?

Lol. I'm normally more a wake at 1:49 pm in the afternoon. I bet there is a few more errors in the main body of the review but the pressure was on to get it out there so I posted it without reading it over (much).

In regards to the scoring I never really wanted to score the cars. I just wanted to write a comparative review for an experiment in writing styles.
 
Lol. I'm normally more a wake at 1:49 pm in the afternoon. I bet there is a few more errors in the main body of the review but the pressure was on to get it out there so I posted it without reading it over (much).

In regards to the scoring I never really wanted to score the cars. I just wanted to write a comparative review for an experiment in writing styles.

Just taking the piss mate, read the last line:

Excellent work.
 
No biggie with it guys, I just take 25 out of the total possible. So after Round 1 from Camryfan the scores are:

Camryfan's judging
Duetto
GME: 64/75 + 5 = 69
Shogun: 60/75 + 0 = 60

Caldina
GME: 65/75 + 0 = 65
Shogun: 55/75 + 5 = 60

Total
GME: 134
Shogun: 120
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

in.s@ne's judging
Duetto
GME: 88/100 + 5 = 93
Shogun: 81/100 + 0 = 81


I'll add all the judges scores in this post so there's a tally all up. 👍
 
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The two Alfas
Engine at the front, power to the back, it sounds great, until we get to the last piece in the puzzle: Suspension from 1966... mmmmm.

Recently, two tuning firms have had a go at 'modernizing' this old girl, making her fit for the track once again - Shogun and GME. Which one should you buy? You'll just have to wait and find out.


First off, the Shogun, simply because it came in red, rather than the GME black.
Not much has really been done to the engine, except for one huge turbo, taking power up to 169kW, the main differences are the suspension and the addition of an LSD.
When I hopped into this car though, I was glad I'd already been to the men's room, because the suspension is so stiff, it's certainly not a road car anymore. The upshot of this is, is that the Duetto sort-of goes around corners. It goes around very level and flat, and this is nice. It also makes it very safe, and very easy to drive, except for the understeer. Normally I wouldn't care, but with a car this stiff, that understeer should really be ironed out, although by no means does this kill the car.
The other thing that I noticed as well is that a bit more power could certainly be put to use - While the power band is wide, the actual power in the band seemed to be quite low, and this resulted in a mediocre lap time around Motegi east of 1' 41. 208.

Breaking it down:
Comfort: 22/25
Cornering Attitude: 19/25 (The understeer!)
Cornering Prowess: 21/25
Power-to-capability: 11/15
Improvement: 8/10

Overall, a pretty good effort, so can the GME do any better? Let's find out.

The GME Duetto produces the same 167kW of power, and also has uprated suspension and an LSD, but this car also has a new gearbox, with all new gearing.
And dear me, the gearing.
Motegi East has by no means a huge straight, Tskuba, Fuji, Grand Valley, Nurburgring, they're all longer, but I topped out nowhere near the 238.8km/h claimed, all the settings on the car appeared correct, so I'm not sure what went wrong there.
I'm nitpicking though, really, because I love this car.

It's just what I like - Good grip, a bit of understeer when you annoy, and then great whacks of oversteer when you go past the limit, but best of all, it doesn't snap. It is so easy to control, and so much fun! The LSD and suspension seem to work perfectly together in balance.
Although on initial drives the GME seemed slower, as it turns out, I posted a lap of 1' 40.407, substantially faster, and that gives this car 5 bonus points in today's shootout.

Breaking it down:
Comfort: 22/25
Cornering Attitude: 24/25 (Loved it)
Cornering Prowess: 20/25 (Not quite as composed as the Shogun)
Power-to-capability: 13/15 (Even though it's the same car, I felt the power was better used, and no more was really needed)
Improvement: 9/10
And of course, 5 more points for being faster.

So the totals then:

Shogun: 81
GME: 93

These are both fantastic cars, but for me today, one was just that little more fantastic. A great effort by both companies, but if it was my credits, they'd go on the GME
 
Hey Camryfan, I think I have an idea why your 0-100's were nearly a second off mine....I spent ages getting the launches right for that car, if you took off with too few rpms, it would bog and too many would cause it to light up. ;) I could do a replay of how quick the car really is over 0-100 & 1/4 mile for you if you like just to show how I launch it. :)

Now, how's things doing with the Caldinas?? :mischievous:
 
Hey Camryfan, I think I have an idea why your 0-100's were nearly a second off mine....I spent ages getting the launches right for that car, if you took off with too few rpms, it would bog and too many would cause it to light up. ;) I could do a replay of how quick the car really is over 0-100 & 1/4 mile for you if you like just to show how I launch it. :)

Now, how's things doing with the Caldinas?? :mischievous:

T'was a tricky ba**ard to get off the line. I didn't pay much attention to the car bogging down but I did notice it lighting up off the mark. The neat thing about your car was the it would light up at the top end of first gear, only a little but it was noticeable and yeah I only did three launches for 0-100 kp/h while I was getting used to the car so that didn't help either. Both cars were tested the same anyway.

And the Caldina's well....um.....*hides.
 
Hey folks, am having problems (yet again) with the game disk. Whenever I exit a race or time trial the Red Wheel comes up and it's retart time, which makes it hard to compare. Also, I've not done the last Alfa and been able to save it before the RWOD appears. I'll get maybe an hour today to try it again, but may have to offer a shortened review of the Caldinas and hope I can keep a copy of the Alfa long enough to save it.

Those Caldinas have provoked a lot of 'spirited debate' in this house.
 
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