"Standard Car" does not correspond to the interior view.Update read 1st page

[eSZee]

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt5s-head-tracking-underwhelming-but-damage-looking-beautiful/#comment-43005

There is a statement in this link that tells only 200 cars. Is this a confirmation only 200 cars will have inside view and all 800+ cars just dark tinted glass?

It's not a confirmation of anything. It's just some magazine running a story.

 

[evilfoxhound]

Whenever I play FM3 the graphics initially impress...the detail level on some cars is fairly absurd. But then when you look at it, nothing really looks *right*

I agree 100%.

The impressive track and car detail of Forza 3 is totally let down by the, what i call, "cartoony" lighting/colour engine.

Something about it's look just does not look right.

 

[danielwhite74]

There's no motion blur in forza and definately no lightning or weather effects at all.

I think you need to get your facts right.

There is certainly motion blur in Forza, and where the hell did he say there were weather effects? I believe you're the one who needs to "get their facts straight" and actually make some effort to genuinely debunk his points made about Forza's graphics, as opposed to trolling people for stating facts.

 

[Spagetti69]

I've heard this cartoony argument alot.
After playing modnation racers, I thought that's cartoony.
When I play forza I don't get a cartoony vibe.
Are you guys playing on a decent tv? Or are your colour settings wrong or something.

Seems fine to me.

 

[Spagetti69]

The motion blur sucks, the lightning sucks, the artistic style REALLY sucks, and the atmosphere is just sterile and surreal.

Hmmmm.

Sorry for double post.

As for motion blur see my above post regarding tv's.

 

[danielwhite74]

I've heard this cartoony argument alot.
After playing modnation racers, I thought that's cartoony.
When I play forza I don't get a cartoony vibe.
Are you guys playing on a decent tv? Or are your colour settings wrong or something.

Seems fine to me.

Tell me you don't consider this "cartoony."

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I meant lighting*** sorry for the typo.

For the record, I own a xbox 360 and FM2 and FM3. I do not own a PS3 nor any past versions of GT at this time.

The two pictures were just two that I found quickly. I was trying to demonstrate that GT has a sort of 'life-like' (photorealistic I suppose you could say) while FM3 has a 'bloomy' and surrealistic look to it. Granted those two photos aren't the best for that, so I apologize.

Here are two more that hopefully better illustrate what I am trying to explain:

The Forza model has an obviously higher polygon count and texture resolution, but the way it is presented just looks dull. I'm not sure what it is...something to do with the constrast maybe. They just look bland.

I'll admit, there are some instances in Fm3 when everything comes together and it looks beautiful (Fujima Kaido mostly) but it's so inconsistant If you raced at Fujima Kaido in an Audi R8 (road car) then took a first gen NSX to that Amalfi circuit, you would you swear another game loaded up in the mean time. It isn't always about the technical statistics, it is the presentation and the artistic style that really sells a game's visuals.

Forza DOES have a motion blur, but it is only utilized in the replays. It looks terrible, I don't think anyone could disagree. Also, I believe the game uses some sort of motion blur for tires/wheels in real time? Not sure on that one.

What I'm trying to get at, is that the cars in GT4 look good already, so that when they are upconverted to GT5's engine (I'm assuming this means higher poly counts, better texture res, and obviously better lighting) they will look very good. If they just dumped GT4 cars into GT5, then no, they would just look like very nicely lighted PS2 cars. I'm hoping for the former.

edit: By the way I play Forza 3 on a 720p Plasma 42" screen in full HD.

 

[Spagetti69]

I think your splitting hairs. The two vids look about equal to me.
If anything the pic of gt4 looks cartoony but still looks good.

I realise my misstake, how dare I cone here and defend forza.
Forza should be treated like a drug habit and kept private and not talked about, nevermind admitting to playing it.
My problem is I like racing games.

Your right forza is poo and I'll go back to playing it in a locked room away from prying eyes.

Whatever.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Anyone want to do a little comparison? Take a picture from the same angle at the same track of the same car betwen Forza 3, GT4, and a wildcard, NFS Shift (which I think is the prettiest racing game available) No photomode adjustments, just the default settings.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

What I'm trying to get at, is that the cars in GT4 look good already, so that when they are upconverted to GT5's engine (I'm assuming this means higher poly counts, better texture res, and obviously better lighting) they will look very good. If they just dumped GT4 cars into GT5, then no, they would just look like very nicely lighted PS2 cars. I'm hoping for the former.

That's great and all, but I'm still genuinely curious why people hold out so much hope that somehow, miraculously, the Standards will be upgraded in poly count and texture resolution compared to what we saw in the Standard video. That's 800 cars that would need updating, and the window to achieve that is quickly closing. Meanwhile, we have evidence provided by PD showing the Standards as the same models as GT4.

And before someone says "they can't be the same models, they have mechanical damage"; that isn't tied to the models. "But what about dirt, scratches, and dents?"; all can be applied on layers to the model, just as the reflections are currently.

It's great that people can remain so optimistic this close to release... but I have a feeling getting any significant updates to the Standard car's quality is roughly as likely as just getting an all-Premium lineup .

 

[Tornado]

That's 800 cars that would need updating, and the window to achieve that is quickly closing.

I went through my calender, and I'm guessing they probably have until the 23rd or so to get things done. Basically, sometime during the week after Gamescom.

 

[eSZee]

I went through my calender, and I'm guessing they probably have until the 23rd or so to get things done. Basically, sometime during the week after Gamescom.

Its going to take them 2+ months from the game being done to it being on sale?

 

[danielwhite74]

Anyone want to do a little comparison? Take a picture from the same angle at the same track of the same car betwen Forza 3, GT4, and a wildcard, NFS Shift (which I think is the prettiest racing game available) No photomode adjustments, just the default settings.

I can do that. Apologies for the fairly shocking compression artefacts, the fact that I'm comparing a (slightly) different car and that Need For Speed Shift is conspicuously absent.

 

[Tornado]

Its going to take them 2+ months from the game being done to it being on sale?

Of course not, but lets work back from the release date:

• The game comes out November 2nd. For most games that would mean it would be in store warehouses by October 30th, because the Thursday/Friday/Saturday prior to a game release is when most of the major retailers (ie. stores like Wal-Mart) take in new inventory. There are exceptions, of course, but I don't see Sony deviating if they want a smooth launch for the game.
• This is going to be a major launch (one that may end up being a simultaneous worldwide launch, but probably a shared Japan/America launch), so factor about 2 weeks for actual disc production and transportation. That puts us at the week of October 12th, which means that this is the timeframe that the game likely has to go Gold.
• If PD only takes 6 weeks of QA testing (which is usually the industry minimum), that means the time PD has to "finish" the game runs out pretty much at the end of the week after Gamescom, give or take a week.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Ok I did shift and FM3:

Here is FM3:

And here is shift:

The sad part is that FM3 loads an entirely separate model strictly for photo mode, while shift's (frankly horrible) photomode just lets you spin around the car exactly how it is in-game.

Someone pretty please do the same shot in GT4?

 

[Spagetti69]

Why is that sad?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

That's great and all, but I'm still genuinely curious why people hold out so much hope that somehow, miraculously, the Standards will be upgraded in poly count and texture resolution compared to what we saw in the Standard video. That's 800 cars that would need updating, and the window to achieve that is quickly closing. Meanwhile, we have evidence provided by PD showing the Standards as the same models as GT4.

And before someone says "they can't be the same models, they have mechanical damage"; that isn't tied to the models. "But what about dirt, scratches, and dents?"; all can be applied on layers to the model, just as the reflections are currently.

It's great that people can remain so optimistic this close to release... but I have a feeling getting any significant updates to the Standard car's quality is roughly as likely as just getting an all-Premium lineup .

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't it possible that at the time of modeling for GT4 the cars were created with a higher poly-mesh then downsized for the game? I thought that was roughly the process used.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Why is that sad?

because shift still looks way better haha

It's almost as if, in the Forza universe, the sun is wrapped in a huge sheet of paper. All of the light is diffused and ugly. You never see hard light. Also, the paint in FM3 doesn't look like paint...it just looks like color.

The only reason I attack Fm3 the way I do is because I have become disenfranchised with the series and company. I honestly thought FM1 was better than GT4 (it didn't look better, but it seemed to be more fun) You might even say I was a turn 10 convert. FM2 came out, and it was basically FM1.5 and 3 was FM1.75 with a CONSIDERABLE amount of defects. I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying that FM3 is running on the same graphics and physics engine as FM1. I have sworn off T10. I honestly don't believe they care about their customers at all. Instead of using DLC to fix bugs, they just release car pack after ****** car pack, trying to make money off their community while ignoring problems and actually closing threads and banning people on their forum who bring issues up.

 

[danielwhite74]

Why is that sad?

Prior to the game's release, Turn 10 released many photo mode shots, claiming they were legitimate screenshots, and I quote, "captured in-game with no faked CG whatsoever." That, of course, was completely false.

Someone pretty please do the same shot in GT4?

If no one's got round to it by tomorrow, I'll do it then. Another issue that springs to mind is, as you said yourself, the Forza screenshot isn't entirely genuine. It would be a good idea for someone to replicate that photo mode shot with an off-screen shot of the game itself.

 

[Spagetti69]

because shift still looks way better haha

In your opinion of course.


Not mine.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't it possible that at the time of modeling for GT4 the cars were created with a higher poly-mesh then downsized for the game? I thought that was roughly the process used.

There's been mentions of that throughout the forum, but if it's truly the case, the Standard video wouldn't look so clearly like GT4 models...

Like Toronado said, unless they plan on missing their release date or forgoing testing (and ending up with another GT2), there's about a month left for actual work to be done for the released version of the game. I'm sure they'll still be working on car models throughout that time though, for either GT6 or DLC.

 

[Spagetti69]

the paint in FM3 doesn't look like paint...it just looks like color.

I love that quote, I want it for my sig.

Are you talking about the waxy looking colour clearly reflecting the sign.

@Drwhite. It's not as if PD wouldn't dub engine noises over there promotional material is it?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

In your opinion of course.


Not mine.

Look at a few things for me.

1. The glazing. The headlamps and windows in the FM3 screenshot do not acknowledge the color of the sky AT ALL. They are reflecting purely black & white. Look at a real windshield in the sun for comparison. Not realstic.

2. Look at the headlamps themselves. They are completely inaccurate in the FM3 version.

3. The entire car is modeled incorrectly...just look at a picture of a real S2000 in comparison, and you will see it. (this is more modeling error though, another inconsistent thing about FM3)

4. The lighting is, as I've said, completely unrealistic. It does look like a real, 3D object, but not anything on this earth. Washed out and just vague looking.

 

[Lil Ape]

Tell me you don't consider this "cartoony."

You're seriously an idiot if you really think forza graphics are "cartoony" cartoony graphics would be borderlands or jet set radio. Even joyride and modnation racers would be considered cartoony.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I love that quote, I want it for my sig.

Are you talking about the waxy looking colour clearly reflecting the sign.

@Drwhite. It's not as if PD wouldn't dub engine noises over there promotional material is it?

Hey I never said PD was perfect

What I mean is that if you look at the paint on a real car, it has depth to it. It doesn't reflect in purely one color, it will change depending on the angle you are viewing it. Unless you have a color like BMW's Laguna Blue which is very pastel, most modern paints

It is a very subtle thing but noticable in these two screens:

Yes this is a premium car I know, but I'm just trying to explain it. See how in the GT5 screen where the sunlight hits the paint, there is an area of hard reflection (the circle where the sun is) but there is also a large area round it where the light is diffused through the paint. It not only changes the saturation of the color, but also the hue of it too. See how it turns nearly magenta around where the light is reflecting? In the FM3 screen it changes saturation, but it is just a lighter version of the same hue. Also, the car only looks as reflective as...hmmm...an LCD screen or something, but definitely not a car body. I wouldn't knock it but NFS shift looks so much better running on the same hardware. I'm trying to explain it as best I can. It's these little details that really sell the realism of a game to me.

I just want to yell 'give me some hard light baby!' at a t10 graphics person.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

You're seriously an idiot if you really think forza graphics are "cartoony" cartoony graphics would be borderlands or jet set radio. Even joyride and modnation racers would be considered cartoony.

Cartoony isn't the best word for it. It's those HDR-type bloom effects and the inadequate lighting engine. Perhaps unrealistic is better.

edit: I've only seen a 2-3 second clip of 'standard' cars. Anyone have something longer and more definitive?

 

[Spagetti69]

Gawd. What happened to having fun on these games without worrying about how shiny the car is.
PD make the shiniest cars on the planet nodoubt.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Gawd. What happened to having fun on these games without worrying about how shiny the car is.
PD make the shiniest cars on the planet nodoubt.

GT has always been about pushing the envelope for graphics.

 

[Peter]

Hmm, looks like this thread has drifted off into a GT vs. Forza comparison yet again. Get back on topic, AGAIN. There's loads fo threads for this, go dig them up, and keep it there.

 

[Spagetti69]

Let's hope they push the envelope on sounds, damage and AI then too.

Sorry PJ and others, I just got caught up in it.