Standard cars ARE in GT6. (100% confirmed)

[Feldynn]

At this point what do we really know about how the "Standard" cars from GT5 will be represented in GT6? Well we know the game itself won't be distinguishing between them, we know that most of them won't have fully modeled interiors, but what else do we actually know for sure?

I seem to recall something about most cars being compatible with the new aero / wheel customizations. If that's the case then won't that mean there would have to be a reasonable change in the quality of the 3D models to allow for that to even be possible?

Granted I'm not expecting to get those 800 odd cars upgraded to GT5's existing "premium" quality level for 3D models and exteriors, but at the same time I also don't see how they could reuse the exact same low quality models and textures, as analog says simply changing the name doesn't work.

I guess that even with the limited info we've got I just don't understand why many assume that PD will simply import the same low quality models with the flat-spotted wheel "arches", jagged lines and low quality textures. Don't get me wrong, I'll happily eat an "I told you so" sandwich if they do turn out to be THAT bad and of the same low quality as GT5, I just can't see PD not doing something to improve them.

Hmm, maybe that's it right there. So while I'd be quite happy with 800 improved cars, for many it's an "all or nothing" deal. I guess in the course of typing this I've gone and discussed it with myself, kind of seen both sides and probably didn't need to hit "Post" at all .

 

[analog]

but at the same time I also don't see how they could reuse the exact same low quality models and textures, as analog says simply changing the name doesn't work.

What I suspect is that they are indeed the same basic PS2 cars but that instead of doing some improvements overall (like in the GT5 updates), they might've been done on a more individual basis (per car model, as in bodyshell which in some cases is widely shared so no 800 individual models) so that they can indeed be taken into Photo-Mode without too many obvious embarrassing rough edges (or too rough perhaps) appearing.

Other than that, I can't see them doing much more frankly, it would be a huge waste of time and resources (as they'll be discontinued eventually) to do anything other than a quick nip and tuck unless they think it's wise to do so with GT7 still some years away and this being the last GT game until then.
The aero-parts has me puzzled though like you (wheels are already possible), making/designing aero parts (and a selection per car) for most Standard cars not already available as Premium (which could be carried over) would also take a considerable amount of time.


Edit, here's basically all we know so far (a quote from the Q&A Jordan attended) and reading it again I doubt much will be changed regarding graphics as some seem to assume (when read in the correct order and don't loosely use the terms out of context).

We won’t be making all the Standard cars from GT5 into Premium models, and we won’t make all of the GT5′s Standard cars fully “Premiumized”.

Up until now, we used to categorize them as Standard and Premium because there were functional differences between them: some of the Standard models might not have tuning parts, or couldn’t be used in Photo Mode. That will all be cleared so every model can be used in Photo Mode, and every car can have parts fitted for it.

In terms of graphics quality, the bad quality Standard models we’ve updated so they look better.

So it seems they only updated the 'worst offenders' and simply removed the Photo-Mode restriction as that might've been considered a pointless limitation in hindsight with all the flaws being shown regardless by other means.
'All cars can have parts fitted' is also rather ambiguous and vague, it could simply mean fitting wheels to cars where it isn't available right now and nothing more than what's already possible (he isn't specifically mentioning aero parts as the extension of that aspect might be exclusively reserved for Premium cars, also note that he himself still uses the terms Premium and Premiumized which indicates there's still a difference obviously).

One thing that does interest me is the distinction he seems to make (at least in how I read this translation) between making Premium versions of Standard cars (Countach and Alpine) and something seemingly described as 'Premiumized' or 'Premiumization' which I doubt has anything to do with graphically improving Standard cars (as he already indicated they've only improved the worst looking ones) but could it perhaps have something to with replacing a lot of the Standard versions of cars already modelled as Premium (MX-5/Miata's, Skyline R32/33/34, etc.) which although still perhaps duplicates could make even more sense if they're all displayed side by side in the dealership?
That it won't be done to all cars is then logical as it can only be done if there's a Premium counterpart (current or newly added ones) to switch it with.



Second edit, the part where he says "and we won’t make all of the GT5′s Standard cars fully “Premiumized"" could also simply mean they haven't been updated significantly other than the worst offenders (which he only later mentioned) and that "all of the" should simply be read as "all" (as in none basically).
Considering their history, I think this might be the safest assumption to be honest.

 

[Griffith500]

Also: adaptive tessellation. It was something I thought they'd do for GT5, but I guess it was too much then (it's supposedly difficult on the PS3, probably because of the SPEs); it's possible they're also doing it on the terrain / tracks, too, which might prove interesting in terms of framerate stability.

Anyway, it means the silhouettes of the Standards can be subdivided to the point of having no discernible sharp / pointy edges at vertices, but there won't be any additional detail, unless it can be converted from the textures in certain areas where the texel density is higher than the polygon density. The same probably applies to the Premiums, absurdly, especially in photomode. All that remains (assuming no actual changes to the model) is a texture touch-up, and the Premiums look to have had that themselves.

Incidentally, you can save half the memory budget (for the meshes only) by getting rid of the LoD levels and only using the full-detail model, then adaptively down- (or up-) "scaling" it using the tessellation. That's got to be something like 50 MiB saving for 16 ~350 000 poly models with 2 additional detail levels, each with half the poly count of the prior level. At least, it must be close, especially if they don't have to load the models in at 350 k polys any more.

Some of that freed memory has already gone into the graphics, e.g. larger buffers and textures, but I wonder how much was left for other things...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I really want the new/used car dealership simplified when scrolling car models within a brand name. Say you are looking for a Skyline - the click on it's name under Nissan and it will open up a big room with 3/4 cars visible to choose from at a time and a drop down list ( scroll with L1/R1 ) - all Skyline of course - saves a lot of times than to load each car model independently.

 

[Feldynn]

One thing that does interest me is the distinction he seems to make (at least in how I read this translation) between making Premium versions of Standard cars (Countach and Alpine) and something seemingly described as 'Premiumized' or 'Premiumization' which I doubt has anything to do with graphically improving Standard cars (as he already indicated they've only improved the worst looking ones) but could it perhaps have something to with replacing a lot of the Standard versions of cars already modelled as Premium (MX-5/Miata's, Skyline R32/33/34, etc.) which although still perhaps duplicates could make even more sense if they're all displayed side by side in the dealership?
That it won't be done to all cars is then logical as it can only be done if there's a Premium counterpart (current or newly added ones) to switch it with.

That's something that actually wondered about before and earlier in GT5's life, it always seemed a little odd to me that GT5 had these premium cars and then had very similar looking (externally) "standard" cars that were just slight model / trim variations. I would expect more interior variations but I always thought it a bit odd they didn't find some way to reuse parts of the "Premium" models to spruce up the "standard" versions.

Maybe that's exactly what they're going to do now with GT6 then, upgrade some of the exteriors that are largely the same with slightly altered "premium" shells from GT5, but leave the interiors blank.

This is really why I'm trying to reserve any harsh criticisms until I've seen more concrete info and examples of exactly what is they're doing to improve (or not) the cars, there's definitely potential there but only time will tell if it's realised or not.

 

[daus26]

That's something that actually wondered about before and earlier in GT5's life, it always seemed a little odd to me that GT5 had these premium cars and then had very similar looking (externally) "standard" cars that were just slight model / trim variations. I would expect more interior variations but I always thought it a bit odd they didn't find some way to reuse parts of the "Premium" models to spruce up the "standard" versions.

Maybe that's exactly what they're going to do now with GT6 then, upgrade some of the exteriors that are largely the same with slightly altered "premium" shells from GT5, but leave the interiors blank.

This is really why I'm trying to reserve any harsh criticisms until I've seen more concrete info and examples of exactly what is they're doing to improve (or not) the cars, there's definitely potential there but only time will tell if it's realised or not.

You know, I never really thought about this. This also reminds me of the Subaru Rally Car in GThd. That car looked so much better in that demo than it does in GT5.

I guess they wanted to keep the standards looking consistent cause admittingly, it would be weird if one standard was 50x better than the other 800 lol. We would then have 3 categories; Premium, Semi-Premium, Standard.

 

[Nato_777]

Not sure if this has been discussed here yet (and I'm not going through 50+ pages to find out), but does anyone know if the 'functional differences' between standards and premiums being removed means that we will be able to purchase them new from the dealerships or will they still only be 'used' cars in a UCD?
I would hope that the former would be the case.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but it only just occurred to me.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Not sure if this has been discussed here yet (and I'm not going through 50+ pages to find out), but does anyone know if the 'functional differences' between standards and premiums being removed means that we will be able to purchase them new from the dealerships or will they still only be 'used' cars in a UCD?
I would hope that the former would be the case.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but it only just occurred to me.

No one knows yet.

 

[Duphman]

Is there a possibility that there are new Standards (Gran Turismo 5 had the XFR, Furai, Axela, Countach 25th Anniversary and the Veyron EB16.4).

 

[Imari]

Is there a possibility that there are new Standards (Gran Turismo 5 had the XFR, Furai, Axela, Countach 25th Anniversary and the Veyron EB16.4).

It's a possibility. It would probably be the final kick in the nuts for people who object to standards though.

 

[Rob192005]

As long as they've been brushed up on adequately the I'm sure I'll survive,sure it's a disappointment but what am I going to do. from what I seen from the tessellation and what have you,it seems okay to me.

 

[Duphman]

Do you think new Premiums should completely replace some standards? (we have a Premium XJR-9, Alpine A110, C6 Z06, R8 LMS and Countach LP400 now).

 

[Conza]

Hmm, Standards in GT6, what went wrong PD, what, went, wrong.

What were they thinking? This is so amazingly cheap of them, systematic of Sony's demise, ect, blah blah, I'll still get GT6 though.

You know, since they are going to include Standards, they better bloody cull the RIDICULOUS amount of repeats

 

[Imari]

You know, since they are going to include Standards, they better bloody cull the RIDICULOUS amount of repeats

It seems sort of unlikely though, they're symptoms of the same disease.

Standards are in because car count is very important.

Duplicates will likely be in, because again, car count is very important.

If they could get over this marketing strategy of having some ludicrously large number of cars, then we could have a game where the duplicates are treated sensibly. Cull anything that's not mechanically different to a single model.

Midnight Purple GTRs are not a separate model.
A Ford GT with a stripe on it is not a separate model.
A Clio with a Lutecia badge on it is not a separate model.
And so on.

Racing cars with different liveries there's some reasoning there, because they have to license with each team separately. Every other game also treats them separately, so there's at least consistency there.

The roster should be condensed to the minimum number of cars possible, to make it easier for the player to navigate. Include any things like Midnight Purple GTRs as livery options of a single model. Stretching them out to as many unique models as possible just makes it a pain in the rear orifice.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Why does it automatically mean it's about car count? Can't it be that they want us to have the cars of past games (with exceptions) in the current one? I'm sure there would be some little riot about some a lot cars being removed.

 

[05XR8]

I guess they wanted to keep the standards looking consistent cause admittingly, it would be weird if one standard was 50x better than the other 800 lol. We would then have 3 categories; Premium, Semi-Premium, Standard.

I tell you right this moment, I'm staring at my 'standard' MG TF160 in green w/green soft top. The car is flawless. It's only missing the modelled interior to go along with the driver that pretends to shift and it looks equal to any premium. I bet if PD programmed it, it would easily have flashing low/high beams. Which gets me to thinking if wipers and lights will be active for standards.

 

[Duphman]

Why does it automatically mean it's about car count? Can't it be that they want us to have the cars of past games (with exceptions) in the current one? I'm sure there would be some little riot about some a lot cars being removed.

Of course it is all about the car count. The Ford GT's of Gran Turismo 4 were never split up into Stripe and No Stripe models. It was during GT PSP and GT5 when Polyphony lost their collective minds with claiming cars that were not different models were different models.

 

[Imari]

Can't it be that they want us to have the cars of past games (with exceptions) in the current one?

It could be, if some of the premium cars weren't duplicated as standard cars as well. That is pure car count padding.

To be fair, it's probably a bit of both. Desire to not lose all those cars and desire to have massive numbers on the box.

I'm sure there would be some little riot about some a lot cars being removed.

Yep. And they're going to have to deal with that for GT7.

 

[Duphman]

Cars will have to be removed for GT7 (especially the hard to access cars like the Concours winners and the Washburn Corvette) and they may be forced to start from scratch if they plan on exceeding the car model quality of Project C.A.R.S., DriveClub, Forza 5 and Need for Speed Rivals.

 

[05XR8]

Yep. And they're going to have to deal with that for GT7.

Kaz said it will be much easier to develop the game on PS4. Whether they choose to wipe all current cars and start fresh is just one of infinite questions. PD won't go backward, they'd just prefer to take baby steps forward.

 

[J-KiLLA24]

Kaz said it will be much easier to develop the game on PS4. Whether they choose to wipe all current cars and start fresh is just one of infinite questions. PD won't go backward, they'd just prefer to take baby steps forward.

Expect a similar outcome with the car count to GT3. It had a significantly lower car count than GT2 while transitioning from the PS1. Even if the PS4 is easier to develop for I doubt they'll be able to "premiumize" all 800 some odd cars.

 

[Samus]

Developing for the PS4 has absolutely nothing to do with how many cars they can build.

 

[Imari]

PD won't go backward, they'd just prefer to take baby steps forward.

PS2 cars on PS4 would be a massive step backwards. They HAVE to remove them. It would massively devalue the brand and label them as the world's laziest publisher for years to come. They would be a laughing stock.

They get away with it on PS3 because they look OK (mostly) beside Premium models. On PS4 I think the difference will be even more plain, and the lack of interiors will be a serious blow. Grid 2 is the only game of note recently that has chosen to forgo interiors, and that came with much wailing and gnashing of teeth. It's become a feature that is considered fundamental in current racing games.

Premium cars will be fine on PS4. I expect what J-Killa said, a GT3 like drop in quantity but a general boost in overall quality.

 

[finnracer]

The worlds Laziest publisher award (In my opinion) lies exclusively with EA or whoever is making the current/ next Call of Duty, while I agree PS2 cars on the PS4 is probably a step too far PD should not ever be labelled as the worlds laziest publisher, its a great insult to them when you think how many hours a fairly small team work to produce Gran Turismo, they even have beds under their desks! I am sure I also remember hearing Kaz say he only has 4/5 days off per year such is his dedication to his company.

 

[eran0004]

It could be, if some of the premium cars weren't duplicated as standard cars as well. That is pure car count padding.

To be fair, it's probably a bit of both. Desire to not lose all those cars and desire to have massive numbers on the box.

Not to forget GTPSP compatibility, which I think may have been a big reason for the inclusion of standard cars in the first place. So it would be a mix of these:

- A desire to make a connection between GTPSP and GT5
- A desire to have massive numbers on the box
- A desire to not lose a lot of great cars

 

[Ranman20]

The worlds Laziest publisher award (In my opinion) lies exclusively with EA or whoever is making the current/ next Call of Duty, while I agree PS2 cars on the PS4 is probably a step too far PD should not ever be labelled as the worlds laziest publisher, its a great insult to them when you think how many hours a fairly small team work to produce Gran Turismo, they even have beds under their desks! I am sure I also remember hearing Kaz say he only has 4/5 days off per year such is his dedication to his company.

Still GT takes a so called new game, and just makes 200+ more cars and slaps in the 800+ standards we already have. That's not innovative. They need to hire more game designers.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Not to forget GTPSP compatibility, which I think may have been a big reason for the inclusion of standard cars in the first place. So it would be a mix of these:

- A desire to make a connection between GTPSP and GT5
- A desire to have massive numbers on the box
- A desire to not lose a lot of great cars

By that logic,where are all the Tracks in GT4?

 

[Strittan]

PS2 cars on PS4 would be a massive step backwards. They HAVE to remove them. It would massively devalue the brand and label them as the world's laziest publisher for years to come. They would be a laughing stock.

To be honest, they kinda are already in my opinion. The inclusion of standard cars in the first place is perhaps THE worst decision by any game developer ever. I'm serious.

 

[finnracer]

To be honest, they kinda are already in my opinion. The inclusion of standard cars in the first place is perhaps THE worst decision by any game developer ever. I'm serious.

I think a decision worthy of such a title would be better placed with a game that hasn't sold 10 million copies and counting with good if not excellent reviews. (I agree they aren't a great decision though).

 

[oink83]

I think a decision worthy of such a title would be better placed with a game that hasn't sold 10 million copies and counting with good if not excellent reviews. (I agree they aren't a great decision though).

Agreed. My main point with the issue of the presence of standard cars is, imagine they aren't in the game whatsoever. 230 (or whatever the exact number is) premium, fully modeled interior/exterior etc. cars, is a pretty good amount. So if the game just shipped with that number, it's more than alot of other driving games come out with around this time anyway. So just consider the standards as an added bonus, they're there if you want them.