"Standards" the good, the bad and the ugly

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For the life of me, when GT5 rolled out, I thought all cars would look like Prologue. Then, in GT6, you'd think all the cars that are NOT duplicates, would be made Premium. Even car makes that have a small number of models. Say, Hyundai, Daihatsu, Suzuki, Subaru, Pontiac, McLaren, Audi, RE Amemiya, HPA, Spoon, Jay Leno Garage, etc.
 
Which Accord Euro-R is it? There's two which are different aren't there?

Also, is it just me or did GT3 have incredibly detailed textures? The side of the Denso Sard Supra for example. I was racing along-side it in GT3 a while ago and it looked really defined. Also the Escudo looked good apart from the rear guard which looked terrible.
 
Also, is it just me or did GT3 have incredibly detailed textures? The side of the Denso Sard Supra for example. I was racing along-side it in GT3 a while ago and it looked really defined. Also the Escudo looked good apart from the rear guard which looked terrible.
Standard cars in GT3 and GT4 looked better because they was in 640x480 resolution and in GT5,6 they are stretched to 1920x1080 pixels... so they lose quality...
 
Standard cars in GT3 and GT4 looked better because they was in 640x480 resolution and in GT5,6 they are stretched to 1920x1080 pixels... so they lose quality...
This, plus I think there are differences in texture filtering.

The PS2 was a custom piece of hardware, the RSX is basically a standard PC-spec GPU, so, programatically speaking, it inherits the same processes that PCs have used for some time, whereas the PS2 was lightyears ahead of anything else in terms of its programmable shading capabilities and its capacity for screen effects in general.

Having seen the raw textures pulled out of the games, PD did indeed use some fancy texture tricks on the cars back in the PS2 era.
 
For the life of me, when GT5 rolled out, I thought all cars would look like Prologue. Then, in GT6, you'd think all the cars that are NOT duplicates, would be made Premium. Even car makes that have a small number of models. Say, Hyundai, Daihatsu, Suzuki, Subaru, Pontiac, McLaren, Audi, RE Amemiya, HPA, Spoon, Jay Leno Garage, etc.
Same thing happened to me. I thought all cars in GT5 would look like they did in the prologue, especially since brands like Ferrari, Maserati, and Lamborghini were introduced. Sadly, around 2/3 of all cars in GT5 were located in the revolving Used Car Dealership. I thought that all cars would be premium for GT6 too, but again, I was wrong. Still too many crap standards and duplicates.
 
When I look at GT6, which is GT5 with some new cars/tracks and minus some core features, I think to myself "What did PD actually do all day when they were working on GT6?"
I view GT6 as an "unfinished game". Once it came out, there were a number of features promised in future updates, such as Course Maker, VGT, B Spec, Ayrton Senna, etc. PD should've waited another year or so to release GT6 with all of the promised features.

Then again, Kaz is always complaining how the PS3 is hard to work with. Maybe if he took away some crap standards and duplicates, he would have more hard drive space and would be able to add more features.
 
Then again, Kaz is always complaining how the PS3 is hard to work with. Maybe if he took away some crap standards and duplicates, he would have more hard drive space and would be able to add more features.

It wouldn't make a difference because the hard drive is for storage. Removing standards/duplicates would make no difference to the processor or RAM.
 
I view GT6 as an "unfinished game". Once it came out, there were a number of features promised in future updates, such as Course Maker, VGT, B Spec, Ayrton Senna, etc. PD should've waited another year or so to release GT6 with all of the promised features.

Then again, Kaz is always complaining how the PS3 is hard to work with. Maybe if he took away some crap standards and duplicates, he would have more hard drive space and would be able to add more features.
1st Paragraph: Better now than later. It's getting better and better per update, so be patient.

2nd Paragraph: Removing "duplicates" would make no difference to the PS3's limits. That aside, it's better to have a wide variety of one car than just one variant like Forza does (not attempting to start a GTvFM flame war here, so don't start, other people.), so people can find a specific version of that one car they like or treasure.

I sure do love my GT-R V-Spec LM Limited.
 
It bothered be choosing between the R34 V-Spec Nur and the N1. The N1 seemed a higher model but the Nur was premium.

I bought the LM Limited just to get the colour, then painted the R33 TC. It looked like a beast. Suited it too because the TC is based on the LM car, and the LM Limited is named after it.

The ability to update games wrecked the video game industry. Does anyone honestly think PD is going to add everything they promised? Didn't they say monthly track additions? Let's add up all the months since it was released. That amount of tracks is never going to be in GT6.

Sorry, getting a bit off topic there.
 
It bothered be choosing between the R34 V-Spec Nur and the N1. The N1 seemed a higher model but the Nur was premium.

I bought the LM Limited just to get the colour, then painted the R33 TC. It looked like a beast. Suited it too because the TC is based on the LM car, and the LM Limited is named after it.

The ability to update games wrecked the video game industry. Does anyone honestly think PD is going to add everything they promised? Didn't they say monthly track additions? Let's add up all the months since it was released. That amount of tracks is never going to be in GT6.

Sorry, getting a bit off topic there.
The tracks thing was Taku Imasaki. SCEA have a poor track record regarding GTs of late, just look at the blurb on the back of the game packaging.

You could perhaps blame that on their remoteness, i.e. a lack of communication from Japan, and "needing" to make stuff up in order to seem awesome. But they seem to be the only region doing that, so perhaps something unique to that region is making them "desperate".

The ability to update games is a godsend in this age of such complicated projects. Of course there's room for abuse, and it can be used as a crutch, but it'll all balance out eventually.
 
The ability to update games wrecked the video game industry. Does anyone honestly think PD is going to add everything they promised? Didn't they say monthly track additions? Let's add up all the months since it was released. That amount of tracks is never going to be in GT6.
Kaz himself made the monthly track announcement at the 15th Anniversary media event where the game was first announced, and the SCEA guy whose name escapes me reiterated it the following day; but Kaz eventually recanted it in the Reddit Q&A.


I'd say more worrying now would be whether the continuously sliding scale for course maker area size has gotten even smaller since the last time they said anything about it.
 
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The course maker is unlikely to be any smaller than Sierra.

This, plus I think there are differences in texture filtering.
The PS2 was a custom piece of hardware, the RSX is basically a standard PC-spec GPU, so, programatically speaking, it inherits the same processes that PCs have used for some time, whereas the PS2 was lightyears ahead of anything else in terms of its programmable shading capabilities and its capacity for screen effects in general.
Having seen the raw textures pulled out of the games, PD did indeed use some fancy texture tricks on the cars back in the PS2 era.
I'm quoting myself for maximum win. :ill:
EDIT: And double posting... :ouch:

On the subject of the PS2's shading capabilities:
www.gamedev.net/topic/256746-question-about-ps2-shader-capabilities/

Quite fascinating what could be done when you can code right down to the metal and not have to wrestle with a restrictive API (PC).

It seems the (relative) power of the PS2 came from its ability to render to anywhere in the unified memory space and use that as a texture for any effect; leveraging the programmable vector units (intended for vertices, but it doesn't know what the numbers represent) to speed things up. The insane screen bandwidth meant that frame-to-frame effects were possible, which couldn't be done anywhere else at the time.

I wonder how much of that capability was lost on PS3, perhaps explaining some of the "pixelated" quirks of the Standards. Certainly, a lot of the texture format and render / processing flexibility must have disappeared on PS3 in general, but for a lot of the "per-pixel"-like effects, that loss would be covered by the fragment shaders in the RSX. Of course, the return of the shared memory and the bespoke vector units, plus those wacky SPUs, still allow for some interesting non-PC-like effects.


That's my main gripe with the PS4 at the moment; it seems to be too easy to get that plastic PC-graphics feel you get from using the same limited tools. Consoles have always had more "organic" graphics, due to the above kinds of flexibilities in the ways the hardware can be made to dance around from the software level, different from game to game.

In a weird near-backward step, the PS4 doesn't have "proper" unified memory access, because the hardware wasn't ready. It has something approximating it in theory, but I don't think we've seen anything of it yet (the developer tools were not ready at the console's launch) - hopefully that'll change soon, no doubt PD will need those advanced features to get the most out of the console. Here's a nice article on what AMD hope to achieve in general - that "organic" graphical capability may become universal one day, not to mention the "GPGPU" aspect...



Went a bit off-topic there, perhaps, but I just think it's interesting what effect the hardware has on the content.

With the current SDK, perhaps the Standards would look even uglier on PS4, aside from the relative difference to the backgrounds etc. :D

But in seriousness, I'd be more worried about how the presentation of the Premiums carries over if there's a problem with getting the hardware flexibility in software (SDK features) that PD have become used to.
 
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Wow that got people talking.

In regards to what Griffith500 said, I read once something about PS3's differences, and I think I remember someone saying it was physically impossible for the PS3 to render the mirages (sun effects, not Mitsubishis) we saw on the PS2. I just didn't take much notice of it at the time.

The PS2 was awesome though. No game took full advantage of it. GT4 came close, but lacked Net play. GT4 and TT were the only games that could be played in 1080p, and I've never seen a game apart from GT4 which uses flash memory. It's kind of sad to think of games that barely scratched the surface of the PS2's capability. I think there was a Crash game where the main baddy had a 10 sided head instead of round looking. Even though that's not to do with the PS2's capability, when they do that, you can tell they're not even trying.

The off-topic level is almost 9000.
 
Why are so many people hung up on standard vs premium? I personally don't think that it lessens the game, but then again, if PD used resources to convert all of them to premium we'd complain that those resources should've went to damage, or a livery editor, or course maker, or the meter-maid feature.

I'm not sure PD can win this one. While I agree that the Standards don't always look great, I am thankful to have them thanks to the many that have become my favorites over the years. Can you imagine the fit people would/do through when their absolute favorite car isn't carried over (Jensen Interceptor, anyone)?
 
Wow that got people talking.

In regards to what Griffith500 said, I read once something about PS3's differences, and I think I remember someone saying it was physically impossible for the PS3 to render the mirages (sun effects, not Mitsubishis) we saw on the PS2. I just didn't take much notice of it at the time.

The PS2 was awesome though. No game took full advantage of it. GT4 came close, but lacked Net play. GT4 and TT were the only games that could be played in 1080p...
*1080i, not 1080P. Here's that quote about the mirage effect on the PS2, btw. Kazunori Yamauchi was the one that talked about it.
“I don’t know if anybody remembers, but when the PS2 first came out, the first thing I did on that was a demo for the announcement. I showed a demo of GT3 that showed the Seattle course at sunset with the heat rising off the ground and shimmering. You can’t re-create that heat haze effect on the PS3 because the read-modify-write just isn’t as fast as when we were using the PS2. There are things like that. Another reason is because of the transition to full HD.”
Link
 
It's not really so much that it impossible to do at all. Just that on the PS2 it could be done with very little performance hit because of the system using eDRAM for VRAM in addition to the main memory pool; whereas on the PS3 it would need to be taken into account the same as any other graphical effect being handled on screen, possibly to the detriment of other effects or fidelity. It's similar to the tradeoff last generation that the PS3 had to deal with for having normal MSAA vs. overall graphic fidelity; whereas on the 360 a multiplatform developer could usually just pawn that off on the that system's eDRAM.


For example, the Ratchet and Clank games are all loaded with those sorts of heat shimmer and screen distortion and etc. effects, PS3 and PS2. But the ports of the PS2 games to the PS3 by some no name developer lost almost all of those effects, presumably because they weren't as easy to get running as the basic game was and they were having a hard enough time with that.
 
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Hahahaha, I meant dinner. Don't ask how "can you get confused with that" Some of us Brits say Breakfest, Dinner then Tea. The three big meals of the day. If still nobody understands me, give me a PM and i`ll try to explain it to you in a more clear point of view. But anyway, lets get back on subject hahaha. :lol:
 
May you please reserve a brief moment of your time to look at this beauty:

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It is a shame that it's yet to be Premium.
 
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