StarCraft 2 - Season 7 is live. Someday I'll ladder, honest

[Gazumagi]

You can turn on building placement grid in options, which helps place buildings so that you don't block your own production/block the wall

Terran wall is normally depots on the two edges of the ramp and a 3x3 building in the middle (rax, factory, starport, bunker, engineering bay, or armory). -x- kind of shape, X being the 3x3

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Terran_Strategy has some nice stuff, if a tiny bit outdated. Also, team liquid gamers occasionally release replay packs, and liquid'taeja released one very recently and he's very good at starcrafting so you might want to look at that ^_^

 

[CMvan46]

Ok thanks a lot. Yet another thing to read through. Too bad the game is on tonight or I'd try a bunch of this out. I'll probably get a few games in before sleep though.

My 45 minute game, while I did lose, was one of the most fun experiences I've had in a video game in a long time. I really wish I knew the scan revealed cloaked enemies because if I did I'm sure I would have won. I also had pressure on him first and cut him off from an expansion. I then tried to push into his base and he had 3 bunkers setup already and it killed a lot of my marines. Next time if I see this, and my scan showed 3 starports, I'd have loaded up around his natural expansion area with all my seige tanks and marines and just waited him out. I easily expanded to 3 bases without a single SCV killed so I could have taken some loses and still been perfectly fine. But instead he somehow got an SCV over to another base I hadn't seen and so I didn't have him blocked in properly I guess.

 

[Casio]

One thing you could do is: the awesome thing about Terrans is we can repair our structures. Even if you have two marines out, grab an SCV or two and right click on your Supply Depot or what ever they're trying to take down and they'll repair it while your marines pick them off. Zerglings and Zealots are melee, Marines are ranged. If they're smart they'll pull their units off. If not you'll slowly pick all of them off and negate their attack.

Casio or Azuremen though might do a better job giving you more in-depth pointers though. I play 2v2 primarily. Not a good 1v1 player and from my experience the strategies are not the same.

Speaking of which, our team made Gold this season.

AFAIK, it's possible to completely block off all the ramps. Normal sized ones usually take a Supply depot, Barracks, than another supply depot. Larger ramps may require more. But maybe Casio and AMen ( ) can let us know if it's worth blocking massive ramps spending extra minerals to block them off.

Basic Terran BO I believe is:
9 Supply Depot
11 Barracks
13 Refinery
14 Orbital Command

I think that's the barebones structure of a Terran BO. After that they have many possibilites. My basic BO is based off of that and my strategy is usually 2 rax then I get my second refinery and build a factory. I like to end games relatively quickly and go with Marine, marauder, tanks. If it ends up going longer I get some upgrade structures, starport for medivacs and try to expand more.

The general basic Terran opening is

10 Supply
12 rax
(Optional 13 gas)
15/16OC - depot when Rax is finished (<--Personal preference if 15 or 16).

Obviously there are variations of this, but that works for 80% of builds.

This should wall you off in time to block a 6 pool and have a marine out on well on its way. As far as I recall all maps in the current map pool now have a small enough choke at the main to do the Depot-Rax-Depot wall off.

 

[Azuremen]

The real trick to stopping early stuff is scouting at 9 supply with an SCV. This way, when it gets to their base, you can understand what is going on with a bit of time to react.

 

[Blackbird.]

The general basic Terran opening is

10 Supply
12 rax
(Optional 13 gas)
15/16OC - depot when Rax is finished (<--Personal preference if 15 or 16).

Obviously there are variations of this, but that works for 80% of builds.

This should wall you off in time to block a 6 pool and have a marine out on well on its way. As far as I recall all maps in the current map pool now have a small enough choke at the main to do the Depot-Rax-Depot wall off.

Thanks for the correction. I just do it out of habit but that's my basic build order.

 

[Casio]

It doesn't really matter too much. As long as you keep making SCVs and don't get supply blocked. Differences between 11/12/13 rax is not really important at a low level like us.

 

[granturismite]

as far as walling off goes, I tend to go for:

This is the build I use in 80% of my matches, but it is a personal preference, to expand before gas. It does stop a zealot proxy gate, and unless I screw up, a 6 pool too

10 Depot, SCV to scout after completion
12 Rax.
14/15 depot, stop SCV after 1/3rd completion, shift queue rax SCV to finish building
15/16 Orbital, marine/s
then @400 minerals, another command centre.

I don't think anyone has mentioned that you can select a supply Depot, and press 'R' to lower it, allowing your units to pass through. just don't forget to raise it if you're under attack

 

[CMvan46]

The real trick to stopping early stuff is scouting at 9 supply with an SCV. This way, when it gets to their base, you can understand what is going on with a bit of time to react.

Ok at the moment I don't scout because frankly if it isn't Terran I don't really know what I'm looking for let alone how to react. So I just scan with Orbital and see for I need anti air or seige tanks early and go from there.

What should I look for when I go to scout?


By the way I really appreciate all the help with this. I'm really not trying to be a pain in the 🤬 but I'm dying to get better and win some games.


Oh gran I didn't see your post but does that build you pictured block off zerglings?

 

[Azuremen]

You should look to see if they have things in their base, basically. If a pool is finished when your SCV gets there, it means they 6 pooled. And if you don't see a Gateway being started or a Barracks when you show up, it likely means a proxy.

You should not use your first energy to scan... the MULE is an extra 300 minerals almost over the time it is out. Massive boost to the economy that you kind of need to keep up with Drone or Probe production rates if they are being good about using Larva or Chonoboost.

 

[Casio]

CMVan do you play with the building grid on? It's in the options somewhere. That will help you immensely.

 

[CMvan46]

You should look to see if they have things in their base, basically. If a pool is finished when your SCV gets there, it means they 6 pooled. And if you don't see a Gateway being started or a Barracks when you show up, it likely means a proxy.

You should not use your first energy to scan... the MULE is an extra 300 minerals almost over the time it is out. Massive boost to the economy that you kind of need to keep up with Drone or Probe production rates if they are being good about using Larva or Chonoboost.

Sorry a proxy means what? And 6-pool is a zergling rush? So if I see a pool it means wall up and get some marines out in a hurry?

CMVan do you play with the building grid on? It's in the options somewhere. That will help you immensely.

I don't but that was pointed out to me and I'll have to find that and turn it on.

 

[Casio]

Sorry a proxy means what? And 6-pool is a zergling rush? So if I see a pool it means wall up and get some marines out in a hurry?

Proxy means they build their production facilities closer to your base, so their units don't have to move as far to attack. Really only applies to Terran and Protoss. For example, if you scout their base and they have no barracks/gateways in their main, chances are they're building them closer to your base to rush.

6-Pool is a build that zerg can do where by they build a spawning pool at 6 supply. It's basically the fastest rush you can have in the game, where 6 lings will be at your base by the 2-3 minute mark, this is generally before you can get a rine out, however, you should be able to wall/block off in time, and then once the marine/zealot pops you're well infront (As you have double the worker count).

 

[Azuremen]

Sorry a proxy means what? And 6-pool is a zergling rush? So if I see a pool it means wall up and get some marines out in a hurry?

It means build a bunker and a marine near your minerals and you win the game more or less.

Proxy comes from to act as a proxy, so a building elsewhere. Generally, in early game, it means near you. Proxy can refer to stuff built later in the game, like a proxy Starport or Dark Shrine.

Numbers next to buildings, like 6 pool, 10 pool, 10 gate, 12 rax refer to the supply at which they start the building.

Also, keep in mind you can hot key units and buildings to access them faster when playing via numbers keys.

 

[CMvan46]

Ok thanks again.

I've seen a lot of talk about hotkeys and I'm really trying to use them but I just forget. I am getting used to my command center at 5 and pressing S for an SCV and sometimes 1 for my army I quickly get to where they are. I saw one video where a guy had all his Barracks on each key and was building marines and having them rally to his army all while microing his army around. He was a pro though and there is no way I'm getting to that ability anytime soon.

 

[Azuremen]

I hotkey everything. It is very typical at moderate skill levels to hotkey your army, production, and main structures (CC/OC).

Mine typically go as follows.

1 - Main army
2 - Flyers or fast moving units that I need to control separate from the main
3 - Casters or specialist units
4 - Unit production
5 - All main structures - Nexuses, Command/Orbital, Hatcheries/Liars/Hive
6 - Scouting units, special groups
7 - Scouting units, special groups/structures

You can turn on hot key overlay in the command card, so you can glance there and see what hot key is what. There is also the grid layout, which maps the first 3 rows, starting at Q, to the respective spots on the command card. Very nice if you end up playing random.

 

[Blackbird.]

I wish i had thought myself to use 3 for units and 4 for rax. As of now mines pretty wacky. 1 for main army, 2 for secondary units mostly for tanks to siege them. 3 for rax, 4 generally isn't used, 5 CC/oc, 6 factory, 7 starport

 

[granturismite]

Gah. Just played, and lost, a 50 min TvP on entombed, almost all bases mined from, and most mined out. My biggest issue with the matchup is that terran have such trouble re-enforcing. I had 15 rax and 3 starports, but lost a major engagement, and got steam rolled. I know I didn't drop enough, but what are you supposed to do against an army of 8 collosii, alot of HT storms, and chargelots?

My evidence that Terran need to be careful about losing an engagement (I am red):

The resource collection rates:

I was quite proud of the nuke I pulled off towards the end. 30 probes

And the army values:

You can see that we kept trading armies, and we'd both max out and do it again, until he beat me in one engagement.

Sorry, I'm not claiming balance or anything, but I'm venting a little here too

 

[Blackbird.]

Well were you caught out of position in the last engagement?

 

[CMvan46]

Those are some awesome looking graphs.

Just played another 4 or 5 games again. Mostly all short and I won 2 of the 5. My last one being my best by far.

Me as Terran, him as Zerg. He 6 pool rushed me which I didn't even have to scout as he was there as I was about to send my scout but my new found wall blocked him out 1 marine killed his zerglings. From there I built 2 barracks, a factory for seige tanks and a starport. I expanded at around 8 minutes and defended that with my entire force as I had an SCV scout go out again and see a huge army of zerglings coming at me so I sat back at my expansion with tanks in seige mode and my marines/marauders around them. By that time I had medivacs and he had 3 bases so I took two medivacs around behind his base and let the rest of my army just defend my expansion with all my production facility's rally points into my huge ground army. I just dropped in my two medivacs of marines/marauders and took out two bases. The game ended with him falsely stating my sexual preferences and that was it

I actually won 3 of 6 games but I won't count the one because right from the start in a Terran vs Terran game a guy sent all his SCV's over to my base to attack mine...2 problems with that were that by that time he was so busy microing them around he obviously wasn't doing anything at his base so I had more SCVs, a supply depot and a bunker being finished when he showed up. So I took two marines over to his base and destroyed it... Not so sure how he came up with that one?


Edit: up to 20 ranked in bronze now from 55 last night.


Edit 2: okay I'm done for the night now. I'm very very happy with my last game. 1/1/1 build and I defended an early zergling rush with my wall again and then had medivacs so I took two around back of their bases and that was it. The best part though was the person I beat has 212 league wins!

 

[Azuremen]

I'm going to let you in a secret.

You can win every game at your level purely with mechanics because you'll have so much more stuff than them it won't matter what they do.

Casio has seen what I am talking about first hand. Have you played anyone much better than yourself so you can have a replay of what they do differently to achieve their goals in game? Certainly has helped me better understand StarCraft.

 

[Casio]

Gah. Just played, and lost, a 50 min TvP on entombed, almost all bases mined from, and most mined out. My biggest issue with the matchup is that terran have such trouble re-enforcing. I had 15 rax and 3 starports, but lost a major engagement, and got steam rolled. I know I didn't drop enough, but what are you supposed to do against an army of 8 collosii, alot of HT storms, and chargelots?

To be fair a lot of GSL level players probably ask the same question...

One thing in late game TvP that you can do is if you have a **** ton of minerals, you can just start putting PF's around everywhere, that way if you lose your army, it takes them a lot longer to make a push towards your base. You also want to start throwing away SCVs and making obitals and just Muleing minerals and using the SCVs purely for gas. You can easy go down from 70 to 25-30 SCVs in really late game scenarios if you have 15 OCs for muleing. Which obviously means a larger army.

Azureman might be able to confirm this, but in late late game TvP I also believe you want to start replacing marines with Ghosts. As ghosts have more HP/DPS than marines, and when you have 20 ghosts you can EMP the chargelots/archons and snipe the HTs all day, and throw a few nukes down as well.

It is a pretty hard thing to do though. A few good storms and you can be ruined.

There was a GSL match on the other night, the Terran was Supernova, I can't remember the Protoss (Possibly Virus), where Supernova won by just dropping everywhere, 3-4 places at once. Forcing the Protoss to stay in his base and not counter attack. Nuking 2 bases at once. Constantly killing off the cyber/forges so he can't make stalkers, cannons, etc. Got to keep mobile as Chargelot/Archon/HT is pretty slow and immobile. Though having Code S level multitasking helps too.

----

Personal note: My 2v2 team is now top ranked plat and mostly playing diamonds. But we actually won our first game against a Masters ranked team the other day, so hopefully we'll hit diamond ourselves soon. Hardest matchup for us by far is TT, when one guy is making Bio and the other Mech it's kinda ridiculous how good it is.

 

[granturismite]

I know mechanics can win you most games at lower level, but the idea is that you are matched against people with about the same skill level as you. So, in general, I stand by what I said.

Funny thing is, the best person I have played against is Azureman, but silly me didn't keep the replay

Intersting point about ghosts, especially considering that your gonna have a lot of barracks by the late game, so you can have a lot of tech barracks for maruaders and ghosts. And thinking about it now, you can use drop nukes for zoning an area to avoid an engagement, and to screw with the person's head at that late stage of the game considering the number of bases he would be using

 

[CMvan46]

Yeah I've come to realize by late game a few matches I usually have about 25-30 seige tanks, 7-8 Thors, 7-8 medivacs and the rest a mix of marines and marauders. At that point I have been just going all in and the Thors are absolutely amazing.


I haven't played anybody terribly better than me. I did beat two lower silver ranked players last night and I did save the replays. I was far better in those games though and beat them both soundly so not much to learn from there. I'm now 13 ranked bronze league which is a fairly good improvement from the 55 rank I started at yesterday.

 

[granturismite]

Nice work man! once you get out of bronze/silver, which will happen over time, you will start to face less and less rush tactics (like the 6 pool or proxy zealots), or 'cheese', and start to play more straight up games.

I was doing a bit of theory crafting in the shower, and I thought to myself, how would a protoss respond to 8-10 reapers in their base while the deathball is moving around. considering that, if maxed out, they can't warp in, and that reapers mess up bases and zealots, would it be worth it, considering they only cost 1 supply each.

 

[Casio]

I've seen a game where Thorzain uses late game reapers vs mass zealot/archon. Works amazingly but you would need epic unit control.

Not sure if 8-10 reapers in base would be worth it, same supply as a MM drop which is probably just as good.

 

[Azuremen]

Not sure if 8-10 reapers in base would be worth it, same supply as a MM drop which is probably just as good.

Faster than a Medivac and higher DPS versus buildings. Much higher. And 2 shotting doesn't hurt either.

 

[Casio]

Faster than a Medivac and higher DPS versus buildings. Much higher. And 2 shotting doesn't hurt either.

Not faster than a Medivac/MM to make 10 reapers though. Which you most likely already have anyway.

 

[CMvan46]

One other thing I'm looking for help with is how do you possibly keep up with making units from all your structures while attacking? I've watched a few videos stressing the importance of not having idle buildings but I get thinking about so many things I just forget.

A couple times I've just let my army fend for themselves and quickly go back to my base to get a bunch training and then jump back to the army but I know that's not a good idea above bronze.

 

[Blackbird.]

I felt the same way when I was newer. The key is hotkeys. Say you're moving your army around or even in battle. I hit three once just to select my barracks but not to move the camera to them. Then I hit the hot keys to build units. Like if I have 3 barracks and I know I have two with reactors and one with tech lab ill probably hit A four times then D once then hit 1 to be back in control of my army. It sounds easier than it is for you I know. But the more you play the easier it gets and really it just becomes second nature.

 

[Casio]

One other thing I'm looking for help with is how do you possibly keep up with making units from all your structures while attacking? I've watched a few videos stressing the importance of not having idle buildings but I get thinking about so many things I just forget.

A couple times I've just let my army fend for themselves and quickly go back to my base to get a bunch training and then jump back to the army but I know that's not a good idea above bronze.

Like this



aka practice.