StarCraft 2 - Season 7 is live. Someday I'll ladder, honest

[Azuremen]

Actually that is fine at Masters level. I do just that - leave my army for a few seconds to expand, add workers, research, produce units, then return to control my army. With Terran, you should put all your production on a hotkey to make this easier. When I am in combat as a Terran, I'll hit 4, see what Barracks only have a unit in queue, and then tap A and D as needed to add a single unit to each production building. Then 5 and tap S to produce additional SCVs. All this while looking at the battle.

Select is streaming right now. I recommend seeing how some pro level players do things. You'll notice how he just glances at his production via hot keys and rally's to his front lines while controlling his army.

On the APM bit, keep in mind you can play at a Diamond level with 50 to 80 real world APM - 40 to 60 in game APM (this is due to the game speed in normal matches)

Also, did they remove the practice league maps with the rocks blocking entrances and such? Because they were also played a slower game time than normal games, which I think just develops poor habits for play later on.

 

[CMvan46]

Ok thanks again. I'll probably play some AI games tonight to try and get hotkeys figured out. I just find myself with idle buildings and way to many minerals by mid game after my first expansion.



Azuremen:
Practice league still had the rocks but bronze league doesn't.

 

[Azuremen]

Practice league builds horrible habits. Bronze league is just surreal to me since I came into SC2 with a SC:BW background and a lot of RTS experience.

As for spending resources effectively, the big thing I notice lower level players doing is getting supply blocked. Hard. Once you hit about 30 supply, you should more or less have an SCV just constantly building Supply Depots. And then develop a mental pattern like - Build workers, Build army units, Build production/supply, move army. Rinse repeat. At your level, and well up to Masters honestly, it is far more important to stay on top of macro and producing units and economy than perfectly controlling your units.

 

[Casio]

To be fair to bronze league, I think it has improved a bit since release due to the drop off of players. My mate has been in silver league for about 6 months now, he plays mostly team games, but everytime he plays 1v1 he notices players are better than they were even 2 months ago.

Might not be as much of a case in NA, but at least on SEA, Silver and some bronze players are actually relatively decent now. Probably due to the player base that is left (I think only a few hundred thousand on SEA), are quite active, with not many brand new players, so the overall skill level is higher than say 6 months ago.

 

[CMvan46]

Well with the supply depots I've been getting ablot better with not being supply blocked. I just learned about shift and then queing up buildings. So I just take an SCV and make place 5 or 6 supply depots around

 

[Azuremen]

Well with the supply depots I've been getting ablot better with not being supply blocked. I just learned about shift and then queing up buildings. So I just take an SCV and make place 5 or 6 supply depots around

See, you should never be in a situation where you can afford to make 6 Depots at once. When you queue anything, those resources are invested in something that isn't happening that you could make happen, like building a Command Center and expanding or a couple of Barracks, tech, etc. Ideally, you want to start a new Depot just as the current once finishes, so you aren't tying up resources in stuff that isn't being built yet.

In late game, when you are mining from 3 or 4 bases, things do change a bit and it is okay, but you shouldn't be doing anything like that when on a base or two.

 

[CMvan46]

Yeah when I watched videos I've seen that a lot but my issue is that when I have 4-5 barracks, 2 factories and 2 starports I can't make units fast enough anyway so I end up with 10 000 minerals unused.

 

[Blackbird.]

Well I decided to try 1v1 firmly placed in bronze haha. First game I stomped a silver player didn't make me feel good about it but it was fun. A bit more so than 2v2

 

[Azuremen]

Yeah when I watched videos I've seen that a lot but my issue is that when I have 4-5 barracks, 2 factories and 2 starports I can't make units fast enough anyway so I end up with 10 000 minerals unused.

That is more than enough production for 3 bases with all of them mining at once. You need to work on checking them more often to make sure they aren't idle.

 

[CMvan46]

That is more than enough production for 3 bases with all of them mining at once. You need to work on checking them more often to make sure they aren't idle.

That's that's my issue. I get so wrapped up with everything else I forget to check. I only played 1 game last night but I really tried to use hotkeys more but I kept forgetting to even use those.

I'm up to 5 straight wins right now. I've basically just been defending to start, midgame I've been starting drops with medivacs to dispute economy and then by late game I have a massive amount of tanks, medivacs, Thors, marines and marauders. At that point I just push straight across the map. Sometimes the medivac drops have been winning it for me though.

 

[Azuremen]

You should add me and we can see if I can get a game against Casio or something for you to watch. Or even me.

The issue with just defending immediately is as you start playing better players, if they see very, very fast bunkers, they will just immediately expand. I'm not saying what you are doing won't work, but I always get concerned that players will form poor habits.

I may sound like I stress the absolute most boring parts of the game, like building units and spending resources effectively versus overall strategy or control, but that is what wins games well into Diamond. And then at that point, you'll understand why certain things work when they do, versus just doing something because it has worked in the past. Someone on here was doing a passive 3 rax expand build against Protoss, and it would just get destroyed by the 1 gate expand opening.

Besides, if you play mechanically solid, you can max out at 14 or 15 minutes game time, 200/200 supply, and basically A click the minimap to victory.

 

[CMvan46]

My name is CMVan on Starcraft but I know just defending is an issue higher up as I've watched a lot of videos of guys being run over doing it but it's the only way I've figured out how to deal with the mass marine/zergling/zealot rushes a lot of players I've played like to do.

The best part about people massing those units is that once it fails their economy is so out of wack that my medivac drops are winning most games long before I've maxed out my army.

 

[Azuremen]

With SC2 id's, also need the character code for it. You'll see when you hover over your icon on the main screen. Will look like CMVan.###

I am not saying defending is a poor choice to make against rushes, but doing it without reason from proper scouting is the habit I'm worrying about.

 

[CMvan46]

With SC2 id's, also need the character code for it. You'll see when you hover over your icon on the main screen. Will look like CMVan.###

I am not saying defending is a poor choice to make against rushes, but doing it without reason from proper scouting is the habit I'm worrying about.

First have to learn enough about other races to know what I'm scouting.

 

[Azuremen]

Which is why I suggest playing Random when you learn the game.

I'm gtAzire.359 if you'd like to add me.

 

[CMvan46]

Which is why I suggest playing Random when you learn the game.

I'm gtAzire.359 if you'd like to add me.

Ok will do in a few hours when I'm home.

Maybe I will try out the other races a little bit. Protoss seems like a really cool race to me as well but I don't even understand how to warp units let alone effective build orders so I'll do more research I guess.

 

[granturismite]

feel free to add me too. my SC2 name is beLIEve, id # 733. I'll probably be on at night your time, which is midday in Australia.

(South East Asia accounts get access to a North American server account for free)

 

[CMvan46]

Ok will do. I play at some really late hours my time so that should work out well.

My goal tonight is too work on hotkeys and get all my buildings making units as fast as I can.

 

[Azuremen]

Maybe I will try out the other races a little bit. Protoss seems like a really cool race to me as well but I don't even understand how to warp units let alone effective build orders so I'll do more research I guess.

You need to research Warpgates and then convert Gateways over to Warpgates. Hotkeys basically required to warp in units quickly.

Build orders, especially for Protoss and Terran, can fall out naturally while you constantly produce workers and add things on as you can afford them. What I mean by this, for example, is:

Build a Pylon at 9 Supply so you don't get supply blocked making probes.
Continue to make Probes till you have enough for a Gateway (around 13 supply).
At around 15 supply, you'll be able to naturally afford to add Gas, then a pylon at 16 supply to prevent a block. Gateway completes around then, have enough minerals to add a Zealot. Around 19 supply, can afford to add a Cybernetics core.

The thing is, all this happens while always using your production facilities to constantly make workers and units. Forced build orders typically cut workers for a bit to add something sooner than would normally happen.

And again, what is your player ID number?

 

[CMvan46]

CMvan #102 I added you last night, I think.

Had a fairly successful night tonight. I won more than I lost and got myself from 15th to 8th on the ladder. Made some stupid mistakes in the 2 games I lost and I'm using my hotkeys a lot more. My average unspent resources is way down and I'm figuring out how to put earlyish pressure without it being a true rush. I did this to both a zerg and protoss player tonight and it worked great.

I also scouted a Terran player that didn't have Orbital command yet so I quickly teched up to cloaked banshees and literally won the game with 3 cloaked banshees so my scouting is coming along. I think I'll take Azureman's advice and start playing some other races so I can get used to what I'm scouting if I still stick with Terran afterwards.

 

[granturismite]

playing other races definatly helps, but because each race is so different, you can fall into a trap, where you think it might be impossible to get to a certain thing by a certain time, but a compentant player can get there really easy.

Case in point: While mucking around with Zerg against AI, I got used to being rushed. I played a game as zerg on the ladder and was not rushed, but I found my self on auto-pilot preparing for a very strong rush , even though I had scouted earlier and saw evidence to suggest an early expansion. because of my rush to stop a rush, I had no tech. Then I got slaughterd by a stalker collosus force. lings die really quick to 2-3 collusus.

 

[CMvan46]

Makes sense, I tried out Protoss a few times against just easy AI and while I won easily I find myself way behind in what I want to do each time. That will come with practice I guess.

I'm slowly getting better with hotkeys atleast in early and mid game. I've started putting all barracks on 3, factories 4, main command center 5 and starports 6.

I'm good with keeping up unit production until I get to late game and that's when I start getting so focused on moving my army around I forget to keep making units. Now, unless scouting tells me otherwise, I tend to go with cloaked banshees as fast as I can. By 8 minutes I can have a fair number of marines, a few hellions and 2 cloaked banshees which seems to work well because I can easily defend all zealot and zergling rushes. And by that point I have orbital command so by the off chance they have anti air already I just look for a weak spot and fly right in.

The game I just finished I beat my first gold league player. 55 rank gold league and I'm in 11th bronze now. I lost a bunch of spots because people passed me during the day I guess. I'm winning more than I lose right now so I guess I'm getting somewhere.

 

[FrontalSystem]

Makes sense, I tried out Protoss a few times against just easy AI and while I won easily I find myself way behind in what I want to do each time. That will come with practice I guess.

I'm slowly getting better with hotkeys atleast in early and mid game. I've started putting all barracks on 3, factories 4, main command center 5 and starports 6.

I'm good with keeping up unit production until I get to late game and that's when I start getting so focused on moving my army around I forget to keep making units. Now, unless scouting tells me otherwise, I tend to go with cloaked banshees as fast as I can. By 8 minutes I can have a fair number of marines, a few hellions and 2 cloaked banshees which seems to work well because I can easily defend all zealot and zergling rushes. And by that point I have orbital command so by the off chance they have anti air already I just look for a weak spot and fly right in.

The game I just finished I beat my first gold league player. 55 rank gold league and I'm in 11th bronze now. I lost a bunch of spots because people passed me during the day I guess. I'm winning more than I lose right now so I guess I'm getting somewhere.

You can hotkey all production facilities (barracks, factories, starports) to one hot key, and press tab to cyle through each individual building type, this frees up keys for specialised units, like vikings ghosts tanks, and banshees for more accurate battle micro.

How do you guys designate a particular building or unit to a hotkey, ctrl+number or shift+number?

 

[Azuremen]

I generally use the control key unless I am just adding a few new units to a group, since that is the main point of the shift key function.

 

[Casio]

Just played a somewhat decent TvT, so I thought I'd share it for the newbies. Made a few mistakes (ugh...seige tanks) but all and all it was basically game where I out macro'd him and won.

Replay Attached

 

[Azuremen]

So today I learned that if you don't ladder for a season, the next season it completely resets your standing.

Results - I had to play silver super stars and such, and now sit in Platinum because you can't go straight into Diamond.

 

[CMvan46]

So today I learned that if you don't ladder for a season, the next season it completely resets your standing.

Results - I had to play silver super stars and such, and now sit in Platinum because you can't go straight into Diamond.

Ouch... Playing people like me for the placement matches?

Thanks for the game tonight. I won 2 of the 3 next games by expanding and gathering my army outside his base instead of outside mine. One guy only beat me because of 5 cloaked banshees that took out my starport as I was making a raven...

The other two people I played were favored over me and I beat them easily by walling them in their own base. Infact on one map he lined the whole wall of his main base with seige tanks so I amassed a big army just out of range in his natural. Once he came down the ramp single file it was easy from there.

 

[granturismite]

Nice idea to contain them. But don't forget that your Orbital Command can scan an area, which reveals cloaked units like a cloakshee or a Dark Templar. select the OC, and instead of MULE-ing, press c and click where you think the banshees are.

Finally figured out why Marine-Medivac-Tank is the standard for TvZ. I used to play Thor Hellion with tank support (or, tank weak mech style). Got promoted to SEA gold this season, and took out a high Platnium player by denying a 4th and 5th base, and sniping his tech with drops and marine groups. Once the big engagement came, I crushed his roach-infestor-Broodlord combination (a little wierd right?). Eventually won while reinforcing with 4 starports and 18 barracks.

It feels good to macro, even if I did leave it till late game (and I had 7k gas banked up...shhh!). Now if only I could macro well.

 

[CMvan46]

Nice idea to contain them. But don't forget that your Orbital Command can scan an area, which reveals cloaked units like a cloakshee or a Dark Templar. select the OC, and instead of MULE-ing, press c and click where you think the banshees are.

Yeah I tried that but everytime I did he just flew away from my it and returned afterwards and I was running out of energy at my command centers because I was using it so much.

 

[Blackbird.]

You know i've tried my share of scouting but sometimes I'm not sure what i'm looking at.